Banner put up by friends and family of Kirby Brown. Photo provided by Lisa Brusseau
Lorena Bathey came forward to speak to me about her experience at the James Ray Harmonic Wealth and Spiritual Warrior retreats in 2007. She is a motivational speaker and author of a book titled “Happy Beginnings: How I Became My Own Fairy Godmother”.
Whenever someone in the same field as James Ray wants to step forward and talk about the death lodge tragedy I think we should take a minute to listen. I mean if a whole slew of doctors came forward and said “Hey, that doctor over there that killed those people? Yeah, I know all about his early years when he was working up to it.” I for one would perk up my ears and jot down a few notes. That’s not to say that Lorena could have in any way predicted that James Ray was going to turn into a murderer – saying a kid was a dangerous bully in school, for instance, is not the same as saying a kid killed animals and hid their bones in a cooler out in the forest for him to take out and play with upon occasion. That being said, Lorena can shed quite a bit of light on how James Ray’s processes worked and evolved over time to become the highly effective coercive method that convinced intelligent, rational, educated people to cook themselves to the brink of death and beyond.
Lorena says she first attended James Ray’s Harmonic Wealth seminar in San Francisco around winter of 2007. She freely admits she went not because she was particularly impressed with James Ray himself, but because of the quality of his followers. Lorena noticed something that I’ve been saying from the beginning – James Ray’s followers, overall, are intelligent and caring people that honestly want to do some good in the world. Her account is very detailed considering it is from two years ago, but I believe she has a good memory for the specific exercises because she was studying the underlying mechanics of them – much like I’ve been doing here at examiner.com.
Lorena estimates there were about five hundred people present at the Harmonic Wealth seminar. She talks about a James Ray Money Game that starts off with James Ray asking participants something like ‘How much money would you invest in your future, with who you want to be’?
Now here’s where I go on a little explanatory tangent. The phrase “with who you want to be” obviously can’t be a direct quote from two or so years ago, but it positively smacks of the type of loaded language that tends to stick with participants. My completely inexpert guess is that “with who you want to be” (or a similar variation) is a type of trigger phrase used to recall a story that went along with the introduction of the phrase. Often times the point of the story is that the participants should act as if they are already possess all the qualities they wish they had – be that compassion, intelligence, or wealth. It’s all fine and dandy to say “If you want to be a more compassionate person then start acting more compassionate right now” but it is completely different when you start saying “If you want to have more wealth start spending money like you already have it.” Often times these types of trigger phrases are accompanied by various personal testimonies that represent whatever James Ray wants “with who you want to be” to stand for in the minds of his participants. In politics this is referred to as a “dog whistle” or a type of coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has a different or more specific meaning for a targeted subgroup of the audience (according to Wikipedia). James Ray slips in these trigger words and phrases to warp communications so that the apparent message is not always the same as what is understood by people who have participated in his seminars.
So now that we understand the added psychological pressure behind that innocuous little phrase, let’s get back to the Money Game. James Ray spends some time working people up with these loaded phrases and then asks the participants to prove how much they are willing to invest in their own futures by taking the money out of their wallets right now. James Ray then told participants to walk around the room for a few minutes randomly passing out money to people. At the end of the “game” some people had more money than they started with, some less, and some the same. A few chose not to participate at all. Those who thought the idea of trading money randomly was stupid were berated and told things like “You’re cheating yourself” and “Why would you do that?”
Another aspect of the Harmonic Wealth seminar that Lorena found unsettling was how James Ray would have people stand in line, waiting to talk to him. He would be up on stage in a chair and they would get to stand next to him for about two minutes and talk to him. This is consistent with reports from other attendees of various James Ray seminars that he uses tactics specifically targeted at regressing participants to an emotionally younger age, thus increasing feelings of emotional dependence. Obviously this is not a 100% fool proof method or anything; it is merely one aspect in a combination of techniques aimed at breaking down participants mental resistances.
Lorena tells me at the end of the Harmonic Wealth seminar she signed up for the Spiritual Warrior retreat held at Angel Valley in Sedona, Arizona. She also mentions that as soon as she got home she wrote James Ray a long letter. This is the part where even experts have to acknowledge that they themselves might be susceptible to James Ray’s technique. Shawna Bowen discussed how she can’t be sure she would have been able to leave the death lodge and I agree. Sure, I’d like to think that because I have a working knowledge of many of James Ray’s techniques that they wouldn’t have been effective on me, but truthfully there is no way to know that. Lorena demonstrated two relatively harmless signs that many other James Ray workshop attendees share – hazy and unclear reasoning on exactly why she purchased another workshop and writing a letter to James Ray himself to express the aspects of his seminar that she found concerning.
Now as for the why she purchased the Spiritual Warrior retreat even after recognizing the coercive and high pressure tactics being used to sell it, I’m rather of the opinion we should give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean, I’ve actually done things like a vision quest in the desert and I jumped right on that secret conference call James Ray made to survivors with enthusiasm for unspecific reasons like “it seemed like a good idea at the time” so it’s not outside the realm of possibility that if I’d had an extra ten grand or two lying around that I could have ended up at the death lodge. The letter is actually what I consider the weirder action. Taken in context of this scenario it seems like a perfectly normal and rational action to take. There weren’t any injuries or any reasons to be severely alarmed and Lorena had no reason to believe James Ray was necessarily aware of how his actions were coming across to her – so she told him.
The part that’s weird is that this is the same reaction many of the survivors of the death lodge tragedy had at first. Their reaction to the psychopath that almost killed them was initially to want to write him a letter. This, to me, shows a clear pattern of James Ray setting up any dissatisfaction to be filtered through to him directly. Many of the writing exercises he assigns to people are letters of some sort. Sometimes he recommends those letters get burned or destroyed, but that only provides the illusion of privacy as participants are “highly encouraged” (read: forced) to share their breakthroughs from those exercises with the group. I understand this kind of exercise to be helpful for emotional release of a traumatic event from one’s past, but viewed through the lens of the deadly sweat lodge tragedy it also appears to be a highly effective way of not only covering up what happened but on keeping informed of what everyone is doing. How many participants have written to him over the years about a serious problem? After they re-experience the emotional release of his workshop exercises they can go on with life as if James Ray will take care of the problem about it now that he knows. Except that he already knows, and is using those communications to improve his technique, not to change his ways.
The participants writing letters to James Ray bothers me because I suspect there are aspects of that I haven’t figured out yet (feel free to jump in with theories in the comments). I’m going to go on another little tangent here because people keep asking me “Well, how do you know what parts to investigate? How do you know where to look?” or in this case “Why do you think the letter writing is significant?” Sometimes the answer is a verbose recap of some random thing I’ve read by whatever notable specialist, but other times I have to give a rather puzzled look and explain that ultimately it can come down to guessing.
Enough people keep asking though, so I started to think about it more. The real reason my guessing is annoyingly accurate is because of this thing called pattern recognition. I have enough raw data that I can spot certain patterns, but just as significant are holes in patterns. The patterns allow me to predict how James Ray will act in the future and the holes point me in the direction of where his story falls apart. A technique he often employs to break up patterns is misinformation. As in, not only is James Ray himself a filthy little liar in every horrible capacity of the word, but he is also extremely good at finding the right people to spread his lies, often times without that person having awareness of the misinformation they are spreading.
Now that we know all that, let’s jump back to September 2007 when Lorena attended James Ray’s Spiritual Warrior retreat held at Angel Valley. It is here she first met Melonie Dodaro when they were both among the lucky few to get a cabin - other participants were in teepees or tents.
In 2009 James Ray had participants shaving their heads within twenty minutes or so of arrival, but Lorena reports that just before dinner time on the first day James Ray stood in front of the buffet in a woven poncho (Peruvian, $250 on sale later - of course) and hat. He stands in front of everyone for a while before speaking. He then takes off his hat and shows everyone that his hair is shortened (not shaved) and tells everyone that they are going to shave their heads. The participants proceeded to eat dinner but James Ray kept himself separate. After dinner there was a tent everyone was ushered into and then the head shaving started. Lorena recounts that people were crying as James Ray staff buzzed their heads. She estimates that about a third or so of people shaved their heads at the beginning. This is very low compared to estimates I’ve heard from the 2009 death lodge. This pattern of increasing effectiveness indicates that James Ray has, with purposeful intent, set about improving his coercive techniques. Combined with the escalating injuries, up to and including multiple deaths, we have a clear indication that James Ray was not only aware of but actively working towards the ability of talking people into death.
Another difference worthy of note is that in 2007 Lorena reports that James Ray did not split the participants into the smaller covert cell structure groups. This continues to indicate that James Ray was purposefully increasing his control and influence over his followers. As I’ve mentioned before, these smaller groups are still having weekly conference calls. This is extremely dangerous for James Ray and quite frankly, I’m surprised he hasn’t shut that down already. If you or a loved one has the option of participating in these calls I would suggest you call in and exchange direct phone numbers with everyone, and also exchange phone numbers of friends’ friends who are in other groups. I suggest James Ray’s followers reinforce the network by cutting James Ray out of it. He fears what every dictator fears – that people will rise up against him as a group. If he isn’t a dictator and he’s just some idiot then he will have nothing to fear from people keeping connected without him.
Another commonality that Lorena reports is that before the retreat even started she had to buy all this stuff. Besides the previously reported required reading material - The Holotropic Mind by Stanislav Grof and Hal Zina Bennett, and a CD titled The Holosync Solution Awakening Prologue (the CD set is 175.00 dollars and not included in with the cost of the retreat, by the way) – there was a whole list of “suggested reading”.
Lorena tells me that the first day of the James Ray Spiritual Warrior retreat she broke her arm during the classroom teachings. She was sitting on the floor and stood up, while James Ray was standing suspiciously behind her. Lorena reports feeling as if she was yanked up and thrown back and when she landed she felt her arm break. At this point James Ray made a lame joke about how Lorena must be “falling” for him. She was obviously quite shocked and proceeded to the back of the classroom where the James Ray staff blocked her from exiting. She told the staff that her arm was broken and she needed to go to the hospital. The Dream Team told Lorena “Picture yourself playing Tennis” and tried repeatedly to make her sign a release form.
Finally a different team member agreed to drive her to the hospital, where it was confirmed that her arm was indeed broken. She had it wrapped, but agreed to go back to the retreat. At this point Lorena reveals that in 2007 the retreat cost $7,000. It would appear that for seven grand James Ray will maim you and for ten grand (the cost in 2009) James Ray will actually try to kill you. When Lorena returned she says James Ray glared at her, but then corrected himself and immediately made a big deal about welcoming her back.
Lorena tells me about a woman who stood up and proudly told the group that she wanted to help people. Lorena describes her as young and pretty, although she appeared to have been abused by males previously. Lorena says James Ray yelled at this poor woman, shouted her down and screamed she wasn’t being specific enough. He berated her and told her that janitors help people and maybe that was what she wanted to do. She cried and cried and Lorena said it was like watching James Ray “stepping on a kitten”. Again, James Ray did not allow anyone to defend others – it was considered “interfering with others’ journeys”. These types of public displays are behavioral conditioning for non-action which play upon the theory that a person is more likely to object at the beginning. Once people have ignored something it is, theoretically, easier to make them continue to ignore it. Ignored pain in the classroom becomes ignored pain in the sweat lodge.
On the second day Lorena tells me about the James Ray God Games. She remembers quite a bit and goes into detail. The group was split into two groups so there were about thirty people per side. James Ray would play God and no one could speak to him except the priests. At this point, each group had to choose a “priest”. Once the group had chosen a priest they had to choose a “king” who would then be the only one able to communicate to the priest.
Setting up this “chain of command” and then playing a game about it while the participants are under extreme coercion and in an altered state is reinforcing behavior that is not beneficial once outside of James Ray’s manipulated environment. In reality, people can talk to anyone they darn well please for any reason they want, but James Ray obviously can’t allow that or else he would have been caught much sooner. Many wonder why participants would even play such a stupid game and here’s the thing – the participants thought it was a dumb game too. A useful analogy is a gym class game of dodge ball. There are always some kids eager to play pretty much any game, while others use strategies such as standing around or playing half-heartedly. Personally, I used to launch myself in front of the first ball thrown and then spend the entirety of class reading in the bleachers. James Ray twists this particular tendency of people by adding “rules” that non-compliance to the game affects the entire group.
Lorena says that after the group picked “kings” and “priests” that James Ray announced there would be silence for the rest of the day and that night they would go into battle. Immediately the two kings started asking questions, so James Ray “kills” them. When someone “dies” a James Ray staff member comes in Death Eater robes and then covers the person with a blanket. If they move or give any sign of life then one of their team members dies also. James Ray creates a situation in which peer pressure works against participants’ abilities to rationally analyze data.
Since James Ray killed the first kings, new kings had to be chosen. After that the participants were ordered to go back to their lodgings and pack supplies. The participants were told not to pack food or water, specifically. After they have gathered supplies (clothing, sleeping bag, pen, paper) they were told to meet back at the classroom.
Once the participants showed up with supplies ready and packed for the “vision quest” they sat in the classroom and listen to James Ray speak some more. Then they proceed back to the tent the God Games were played in and James Ray handed out three balls that participants were to throw and “kill” the king. If the king died all the “warriors” (read: other participants) would go to the side of the “living” king. Lorena says that fifteen minutes in a king was “killed” so everyone joined the remaining team. At that point James Ray directed them all to “kill” themselves.
This is a very dangerous game to be playing, psychologically speaking, especially before going into what is essentially an oven with a man who likes to tell people to die and kill others and then kill themselves. Of course, the participants didn’t know about the “sweat lodge” yet, because first James Ray had to drop them off in the desert, alone, without food or water for a “vision quest”. You know, after selling them a $250 Peruvian poncho.
Native Americans are very upset about James Ray butchering and bastardizing their sacred ceremonies and way of life. This is an appropriate response. What James Ray did is disgusting and obviously shows no respect to anyone, least of all Natives. I mean, I cannot imagine the clamor the Catholic Church would be making if James Ray had instead taken a nice sturdy cross adorned with the image of Jesus and sharpened the end of it so he could stab people in the face until they died. Of course, at that point Dan Brown would be forced to add Harvard Symbologist Robert Langdon into the equation.
Many people wonder why participants would agree to being dropped off in the desert without food or water, but it’s not really that hard to understand. I’ve heard people say such things as “white folk should never be allowed to participate in Native ceremonies” or some such remarks. To me, that sounds kind of racist. I mean, if any group of people has something that is really awesome, other people are going to want that really awesome thing. I don’t think that is about skin color. I think it is about how we treat each other as people. Learning about Native traditions with healthy respect is very different than what James Ray did. What James Ray did is the moral equivalent of walking in and stealing something sacred at gunpoint and then he used it to kill people. The cultural appropriation is insulting and the Lakota Nation asserts in their lawsuit that it is also illegal. I completely sympathize with that, however I still think the fact that James Ray likes to go around killing people is the more pressing concern.
Participants agree to do James Ray’s “vision quest” because they have heard about what an amazing and transformative experience a real Vision Quest can be, but they have no idea that James Ray has not bothered to include any safety measures on their behalf. The reason people don’t wander out into the desert on their own to do a Vision Quest is because that would be stupid-dangerous. People paid ridiculous amounts of money to James Ray because they expected to have the excellent experience minus the most dangerous bits.
Lorena spent one night out in the desert with a broken arm and came to the reasonable conclusion: that is quite enough of that. At first light she walked back to the retreat center, ready to call it quits. The first place Lorena looked for people was at the classroom, but it was empty. She went back to her cabin and while packing up her things she heard James Ray Dream Team members walking by and talking. Lorena finished packing and checked the classroom again. It was still empty. She checked the dining hall and eventually had to go to the Angel Valley office to find any one. The office staff had no idea where James Ray or his staff was, but someone who worked in the dining hall had overheard James Ray and his staff planning a hike.
Lorena left a message for James Ray and his staff and drove to Phoenix to fly home. She was one of the few who had brought a car to the retreat, and she was grateful she had or she would have run into serious difficulty. She drove to the airport on no sleep and flew home. Twenty-seven hours later someone from JRI finally contacted her. It was the JRI staff member who had been trying to get Lorena to sign the release form. Let me repeat that, twenty-seven hours later they noticed Lorena was missing, with the Angel Valley staff actively trying to get a message to James Ray. It makes me wonder how long it would have taken James Ray to notice if Lorena hadn’t left a message and had just left, or worse, had an emergency.
After we finish discussing her participation in the James Ray seminars, Lorena expresses some fondness for Michael Beckwith, who I admit I know next-to-nothing about, really. A simple wiki search doesn’t show much except that his marriage ceremony was performed by Mary Manin Morrissey. I never heard of her before either, but wiki tells me she reeks of scandal. This is exactly the kind of convoluted power and influence structure that made the Nazi war trials so difficult.
Can you imagine being in the James Ray’s participants shoes? A man they trusted and admired seriously messed with their heads and killed their friends. Furthermore, James Ray tried to kill them too. These are the kind of lawsuits that end with large amounts of money attached to words like “pain and suffering” and “permanent disability”. Not to mention, you know, jail time.
My suggestion to anyone who participated in a James Ray seminar is that you should consider getting a professional psychological evaluation – even if you hate therapy and have no intention of regular sessions. I suggest one eval for the purpose of substantiating your claims and I also suggest that you join the legal movement to have James Ray pay the bill. I’m not an expert, so it is absolutely important for participants to take any and all advice (including my own) and discuss that with the friends and family that are supporting them now. I would also advise that one psychological evaluation by a licensed professional doesn’t mean that a participant has to take action against James Ray. I would suggest it as insurance, just in case later after the participants have looked into it more they change their minds. I would advise anyone who is hesitating to keep their options open. James Ray likes to tell people to rush, rush, rush and do it right now. That is fine if you are discussing issues of procrastination perhaps, but generally one should not feel pressured to rush into major life decisions. James Ray followers should take steps to protect themselves, because James Ray has never been looking out for their best interests.
Slideshow below of Kirby Brown courtesy of Lisa Brusseau. (edit to add: I cannot seem to make the slideshow work. I'll have it up as soon as I figure out why it isn't working.)
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Comments
Thank you Cassandra for such an indepth article and for retelling my story so well. I must say something about Michael Bernard Beckwith. I don't know why there wasn't more found on him but he is a truly spiritual person that does not use the influence tactics of James Ray in any way. He is the leader of Agape Church and my comment about him was that to see him speak it cost on $26 (which also gave me a copy of his book) and was amazing. I don't know where you found about his marriage but he is a truly wonderful speaker and his book Spiritual Liberation is a phenomenal wake up call to return to your spiritual practice. There are many speakers out there that come from a place of giving and helping with no ulterior motives however we must be listeing to our inner voice and not simply trusting. Part of what James Ray does is to undermine your confidence and make himself and expert. You are always the expert of your life and what is right for you.
Hi Lorena! *waves* I can't really say anything about Beckwith either way right now because I don't know very much about him. Wikipedia said his wedding was done by Morrissey, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. It is very difficult to sort out who is influencing who because everyone is connected to *someone*. It is not an easy task. I'm not saying I won't check Beckwith out, I'm just saying I haven't *yet*.
my goodness, Cassandra! well said! Bravo
Yes, Bravo!! But another serious issue that you may want to tackle as only you really could is... Well, let me give you a little background and then just take off with it in your expertish kinda probing way!!! Here's the scoop>>>If a hungry little traveler shows up at your house, you might want to give him a cookie. If you give him a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk. He'll want to look in a mirror to make sure he doesn't have a milk mustache. Quite a story, isn't it, Cassandra? Go now, get to work. Wrap your expert 'writing' skills around that scoop. If you ask me that 'little traveler' is a crazy, pervert!! Damn! What a story! Go ahead, girlfriend...write!!
all of you people need professional help
For all JRI & James Ray customers, there is a class action law suit being prepared to represent people who sustained damages - physical and/or mental by Arizona Attorney Ted Schmidt contact them through www.kbsds.com
@bizsayer: I have contacted Ted Schmidt a few times requesting more information, either for public use for my column or private use for the victims who are seeking representation. He has yet to respond.
Good work as usual, Cassandra. Lorena's story simply seems to reinforce all of the worst criticisms regarding James Ray. As for Mary Morrissey, she hasn’t let scandal slow her down in the least, e.g., she’s been doing projects for a couple of years with Bob Proctor. Michael Beckwith seems like a nice enough fellow & I have dear friends who admire him. Yet he & Proctor & Jack Canfield were involved in that $2,000 "Science of Getting Rich" briefcase scam a few months after The Secret came out. You're quite right about the convoluted power & influence circles. I like the way my pal Chris Locke at the Mystic B blog describes it: "a magic circle jerk of mutual self-admiration." I'm not saying there aren't good folks in the self-help biz; there are. But once they reach a certain level of stardom, something happens to them. Or perhaps in some cases it's the reverse: they reach stardom *because* of disturbing character traits. The latter certainly seems to be the case with James Arthur Ray.
Thank you for this excellent article.
I am a latecomer--I am wondering if anyone could explain something in the first post by Cosmic Connie, referring to a "Science of Getting Rich Briefcase Scam." I used to know Jack Canfield and am wondering what that's about.
I never heard of James Ray before this tragedy, and I hope that he is utterly ruined by the lawsuits, as well as going to prison.
Sorry, Hippo. I wanted to ’splain the briefcase scam but was limited by the 1k-character rule. The program involved a $1997 leather briefcase that contained DVDs, CDs, MP3s & a workbook, all centered around Wallace Wattle's classic book, The Science of Getting Rich, but with a whole lotta Proctor thrown in. It capitalized on the partners in the scheme (Proctor, Canfield, Beckwith) having been in The Secret. It was an affiliate program, so for your nearly $2,000 you got the chance to sell overpriced briefcases full of crap to as many other people as you could sucker in & you'd get a commission. There was some outrage over the program even from fans of The Secret b/c it was so clearly a money-grubbing scheme. Beckwith briefly dropped out in the beginning but soon rejoined Proctor & Canfield. It's hard to find info on the briefcase scam now. Though some links in the post are no longer valid, I have more info on my Whirled Musings blog Sept. 19, 2007, re the original launch/controversy.
In my previous comment I noted that it's hard to find info on the briefcase scheme now, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. For example, Google a YouTube video on "The SGR Program briefcase by Bob Proctor from the Secret." You'll get to see exactly what was in the briefcase & you'll see more links. By the way, according to the most recent info I saw, the briefcases had been marked down to $197. Proctor/Canfield/Beckwith's SGR Program now apparently consists of a CD/DVD/workbook set, sans briefcase. But it was a good scam while it lasted. (Sorry, Cassandra, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. But this IS related to James Ray b/c all of the Secret "stars" have been involved in similar dodgy stuff.)
Superb article, again. Thanks for all your hard work on this.
Archives sales pitch on "The Briefcase" http(notspam)://bit.ly/5Vs0CU provided by rwr
Hippo: Did you know we SIMPLY ADORE questions around here? Thanks for asking!
Cosmic Connie: You are welcome to comment here as much as you like :) Everyone is in fact, but seeing as I *asked* you to come back and give us more info, you're just being SILLY. Also, I Just typo'd your name as Comic Connie, and now I kind of want to give you an official title - Comic Cosmic Connie. I was reading some more of your musings and I quite like your sense of humor.
this all reminds me of what my father used to ask me when i was considering doing something stupid, "If they told you to jump off a cliff, would you do that?" If you ask me, James Ray has done a huge service to "seekers" everywhere....we will be able to say, "Remember what happened to those poor people in the sweat lodge? That guys in jail now." Peace.
Gosh, this all reminds of Yorgley...
She could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain.
And her head she'd be scratchin' while
her thoughts were busy hatchin'
IF SHE ONLY HAD A BRAIN.
SHE'd unravel every riddle for any individal
In trouble or in pain.
With the thoughts she'll be thinkin'
she could be another Lincoln
IF SHE ONLY HAD A BRAIN.
Oh, she could tell you why The ocean's near the shore.
SHE could think of things she never thunk before.
And then she'd sit, and think some more.
She would not be just a nothin' her head all full of stuffin'
HER heart all full of pain.
She would dance and be merry, life would be a ding-a-derry,
IF SHE ONLY HAD A BRAIN.
This is to Cosmic (Comic) Connie:
Thank you for the explanation. I used to think highly of Jack Canfield, but after leafing through those ridiculous Chicken Soup books, my opinion has changed 180 degrees.
This "briefcase scam" puts him even lower on the food chain.
This comment is to "Curious:"
I am going to play Devil's Advocate with your comment. Your point is well taken. However, I want to bring up a different angle.
In order to make my point, I need to bring up a dreary personal anecdote. A few years ago, my husband unexpectedly started divorce proceedings against me. As a disabled SAHM, I was in a financially vulnerable position. I realized I would need a tough lawyer to protect my interests. I found the best one I could. She asked for and received a hefty retainer from me.
When I told my Ex what I had paid her, he laughed and said, "If she told you to jump off a cliff, would you do that too?"
Now, the way he used the question, this was a way of stating that my previous actions had been unwise and foolish, which they were not. That lawyer earned every penny.
This question/statement can be used as a powerful weapon to discredit and confuse people--I think it's important to make the distinction.
And speaking of Jack Canfield:
His adult son has just published an autobiography. Apparently, JC is a womanizer on top of everything else.
Hippo: That is an interesting point about use of cliche phrases to create self-doubt. James Ray finds any tiny area of peoples self criticisms and then works his way into their psyche to create enough self doubt to talk people into cooking themselves. That is quite a dangerous and scary level of manipulation. In demonstration of that, James Ray is under scrutiny for talking Colleen Conaway into jumping off a third story balcony - not quite a bridge, but close enough.
Scary: Thanks for the idea!
This is to Cassandra:
Is anything going to be done about Colleen Conaway? I thought it was water under the bridge, no pun intended.
I don't see where the authorities can prove he drove her to jump.
Clearly, James Ray is an out-of-control nutjob who needs to be stopped. But connecting all the dots may be difficult.
James Ray has just posted another non-update "update" on the Sedona investigation.
Two paragraphs of saying nothing--it's on his blog.
I'm assuming this is bad news for him, otherwise he'd say something definitive.
James Ray has just posted another non-update "update" on the Sedona investigation.
Two paragraphs of saying nothing--it's on his blog.
I'm assuming this is bad news for him, otherwise he'd say something definitive.
On a related note, I just finished Barbara Ehrenreich's excellent book called "Bright-Sided," which is about how positive thinking can be delusional.
My favorite comment from her concerns Rhonda Byrne, who wrote "The Secret" with James Ray. When the 2006 tsunami hit in Asia, Byrne claimed that the victims had drawn the disaster to themselves. Barbara Ehrenreich refers to this attitude as "DEPRAVED SMUGNESS."
I need to find a way to use that phrase in conversation now.
I watched her break her arm- and that's NOT how it happened- I witnessed (and I'm very visual) the entire arm break- And since she clearly doesn't remember the rest of your article might be filled with details that simply aren't true- She takes NO responsibility. Takes one to know one-
I think she's just as dangerous and full of it as some of the others you're interviewing.
Also, her vision quest spot was the closest to the lodge- BTW- all the Vision Quest spots are CLOSE to the lodge for the VERY REASON of people feeling a sense of safety. The team INTENTIONALLY put her CLOSE so that if she needed to walk back, she could. You're making it sound like they were dropped in the desert- and they weren't--- it's 3 mins or less to WALK back, shower and sit inside.
Keep digging- but watch out, someone could be standing suspiciously behind you! WHAT A CROCK-
Thanks for the insight, 'I was there 2007'! Ms Yorgey really likes to put a HUGE negative slant on all things regarding Mr Ray because in a previous article, she stated, AS IF FACT, that the participants were dropped off in Nowheres-ville and were stuck out there without any way to get back until they picked you up. Yorgley, go write your FICTION somewhere else. Or better yet, QUIT trying to write!!!
You're slimy and mean. Go check yourself. You seem to be the one that needs psych help.
Thanks for keeping this event in the public eye. There are a lot of spiritual fakers who will take thousands of dollars of your hard earned money and who will deliver little. They also break you down in the process.
This website has an excellent list of New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans: check out newagefraud(dot)org
I would also encourage people to stay away from anyone claiming to have anything to do with Carlos Casteneda. All of that is just fakery.
What's the prerequisite to 'become an Examiner'? www.lousywriter.com/websites.php
It's scary to think that someone can read one person's opinion about someone else and come up with "I hope that he is utterly ruined... as well as going to prison."
Why does one jump to conclusions just because one chooses to believe perception instead of researching all the facts? I wonder if such a knee-jerk reaction would have occurred had the one being accused been your son or daughter.
It's easy to read the media on any tragedy such as this and form our own opinions on what should be done with whom. Even with the first hand knowledge from a participant, this article is still a third-party portrayal of the events - a picture someone else is painting that is forming yet another interpretation by the reader.
I was quite depressed for a few days after learning about the deaths. I kept thinking: "I attend seminars, that could have just as easily been me!"
Then I consider: I want to be a public speaker. What if one of my attendees died? I could be in James' shoes just the sam
Rob, I agree with you completely. The entire situation is depressing, but what is equally disturbing to me is the way some people, especially this writer, seem to think they are immune. It's tragic for ALL involved INCLUDING James Ray, obviously. Does anyone really think that this was a part of his grand plan for his life? "Deliberately" killing people(like Ms Yorgley seems to think he did)doesn't seem to benefiting him in any way! Unintentionally harming others could happen to ANYONE in so many different and unexpected ways. Last week a woman on a flight was breast feeding her infant, she fell asleep and accidentally smothered the baby. Terribly tragic. Does anyone think that she's a monster baby killer?? Sadly, Ms Yorgley may. After all, she is perfect.
I was there at 2007: I will speak with anyone who attended a JR event, including yourself, if you so choose. Please feel free to contact me and tell me about your experience.
Sarah: Yes, people really DO think that JR intentionally killed people. That is why he is under investigation for homicide. Accidental deaths happen all the time, but I don't harp on about those because they are, as you noted, unintentional. This tragedy would never happen at a seminar with a leader who WANTED to keep their participants alive. Any leader worth their spit can rattle off a list of safety precautions *they* would have taken if running a similar event and even little children would have recognized the signs of medical distress in the participants at the deathlodge. James Ray killed people, interfered with the effort to save the rest, ordered evidence destroyed, influenced witnesses, etc, and I'm sure that all those issues will be addressed at the trial.
This comment is to Rob Ottoman:
I am responding to your comment about "reading one person's opinion", etc.
I assume that I am the person you are referring to. I researched this case extensively before stating my opinion.
And no, I am not perfect, I don't have all the facts, but based on what is now known, I'm going to stick with what I said previously. I believe that James Ray is dangerous and should be locked up for a long time.
I feel the need to emphasize that I am NOT perfect, since many people seem to believe that a defense for one person's outlandish behavior is to accuse critics of thinking they're perfect. As if, somehow, no one should be permitted to criticize anyone unless they have never made any mistakes themselves.
If this were the case, how could we possibly have a criminal justice system? No one would be qualified to be police officers, judges, grand jury members, etc.
This is to Cassandra:
I do not believe that James Ray intentionally killed anyone.
I think that he lost his ability to use common sense due to his ego becoming so large.
This is to Sarah:
I, for one, do not feel I am immune at all. I have been to various self-help seminars in the past, and I trusted the people running those seminars. So that easily could have been me in a sweat lodge--quite the opposite of thinking I am immune. This is why I feel so passionately about this case and about this man being held accountable for his actions.
To Cassandra Yorgey:
All I have to say by reading your article and comments are--you are a crazy-ass fool! Your thoughts are absolutely certifiably insane!!
I have attended Creating Absolute Wealth in San Diego several times and I have a very hard time believing that someone would kill themselves because of the homeless exercise. It is very sad indeed, but there had to be other things going on in that woman's life. Looks like her family did not know her as much as they thought they did, but isn't that usually the case?? As for spiritual warrior, I also attended that one once and I agree that it wasn't James attention to kill anyone, what would he gain from that? Lose his business and go to jail??? I believe his ego got in the way. He felt like he was so much better than anyone else, that he didn't think he could do anything wrong. That I do believe...
"I believe his ego got in the way. He felt like he was so much better than anyone else, that he didn't think he could do anything wrong."-Sarah
I also believe this is true. He possibly became so overly confident in what he was doing, he became careless and developed a false sense of security.
I have attended Creating Absolute Wealth in San Diego several times and I have a very hard time believing that someone would kill themselves because of the homeless exercise. It is very sad indeed, but there had to be other things going on in that woman's life. Looks like her family did not know her as much as they thought they did, but isn't that usually the case?? As for spiritual warrior, I also attended that one once and I agree that it wasn't James attention to kill anyone, what would he gain from that? Lose his business and go to jail??? I believe his ego got in the way. He felt like he was so much better than anyone else, that he didn't think he could do anything wrong. That I do believe...
This comment is to Sarah:
I agree that unintentional harm can be caused under all kinds of circumstances. But I don't think it's fair to compare the breast-feeding lady to the James Ray debacle.
I never suggested that James Ray WANTED to kill anyone. The problem is that he used extremely poor judgment. Telling people "you are not your bodies" as a way to keep dying people trapped in that sweat-box is just stupid. This makes him negligent and therefore responsible for people's deaths. This would be completely different from someone who was injured due to nobody's fault.
And I want to reiterate that I did not form my opinion of James Ray after reading ONE article. I have been following this case closely since the outset. If further evidence is made available showing that James Ray is NOT responsible, then I will revise my opinion. Right now, I think he's unqualified to run seminars, and he has shown himself to be irresponsible, selfish and cowardly. He should be locke
Sorry, got cut off by the word limit.
James Ray should be locked up for a long time for what he has done.
That's my opinion and I haven't seen anything to persuade me otherwise. All of his corny "trying to get to the bottom of this" is just a ruse to avoid taking responsibility.
Another comment to Sarah:
I agree that something must have been going on with that poor lady (Colleen?) for her to commit suicide at the James Ray seminar. But it seems like there should be a better screening process or better supervision for these experiences which can be so intense. I don't know what the answer is--but I do think that there should be a licensed mental health professional at these things.
Hippo: There seems to be two Sarah's posting--I'm the baby/mom poster. Anyway, you may be correct that the baby incident wasn't a good comparison, but I feel that the attack on James Ray of intentionally killing people (statements continually made by Yorgey) is uncalled for. I do agree with you, the other Sarah and KarenL that he may have used poor judgment, was overly confident & possibly careless...but I'm sure it wasn't a vicious, purposeful act made by him. That is the only point I am trying to really make.
I also was thinking the same thing regarding a better screening process for these experiences. He was obviously trying to give an authentic experience, but I think he really should've offered a much more controlled environment-- to give the effects, but not the possible dangers. You can't be too careful when you're involving so many different people. Don't know...I guess it's easy to say what should've been done now.
*waves* Hi everyone, thanks for commenting. Any minute now on Anderson Cooper there will be a James Ray clip and Nightline will have more later.
This is to Sarah:
Hi, I didn't realize that you were two different people. Sorry for any confusion.
I didn't watch Anderson Cooper and I'm not going to watch Nightline, so I'll just wait and see what develops. I'm hopeful that the District Attorney is getting ready to file charges.
James Ray is responsible for these deaths and should not be allowed to get away with claiming that three people "chose to transition." Give me a break!
I didn't watch Anderson Cooper, but it was going to be about Colleen Conaway, who died during a July, 2009 seminar in San Diego.
I just wanted to emphasize, although it's been mentioned before, that Colleen had pre-paid for the Sweat-Box Seminar in Arizona. She obviously was not able to attend, but James Ray kept her money.
If that doesn't show sleazy bad faith, I don't know what does.
I agree with the comments made below. Of course, James did not intend to kill anyone, but he is responsible for the deaths, for not having nurses presents, caring for people... I took most of his seminars and what really bothers me the most is that his main teaching is about taking responsability and the first thing he does when faced with an event like this is flee and not talk to anyone! I guess you do teach what you need to learn!!
I've taken a lot of seminars from a lot of people and James is/was by far one of the best, but the more successful he became, the more out of touch with reality he got too, really sad.
There is another thing I have observed in the past several years too: some people really have to be careful when they go to these seminars. They seem like they are looking for a "Messiah" and are ready to do everything & anything asked with no discernment. Yes, we can learn a lot, but always remember who is in control.
So the verdict should be out before Xmas...
I agree with the comments made below. Of course, James did not intend to kill anyone, but he is responsible for the deaths, for not having nurses presents, caring for people... I took most of his seminars and what really bothers me the most is that his main teaching is about taking responsability and the first thing he does when faced with an event like this is flee and not talk to anyone! I guess you do teach what you need to learn!!
I've taken a lot of seminars from a lot of people and James is/was by far one of the best, but the more successful he became, the more out of touch with reality he got too, really sad.
There is another thing I have observed in the past several years too: some people really have to be careful when they go to these seminars. They seem like they are looking for a "Messiah" and are ready to do everything & anything asked with no discernment. Yes, we can learn a lot, but always remember who is in control.
So the verdict should be out before Xmas...
Not sure why my messages keep on being posted twice??
To Sarah#2:
I have had the same problem with double posts. I guess the upside is that people are less likely to miss them.
There is also a problem here with mind control. It was not easy for people to just walk out of the sweat lodge. I don't know to what extent James Ray was practicing brainwashing/mind control techniques. There are great discussions of this topic on Rick Ross's excellent website regarding cults. It's quite a scary phenomenon, and we should not under-estimate that factor.
Not sure why my messages keep on being posted twice??
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