Following is the transcription and full video of Sarah Palin's moving speech at the Glenn Beck "Restoring Honor" rally in Washington, D.C. Sarah spoke as the mother of someone who had served in the military.
Thank you so much, thank you . Aren't you not so proud to be an American?
What an honor, what an honor. We stand today at the symbolic crossroads of our nation's history and all around of us are monuments to those who have sustained us over the years - in word or deeds.
There in the distance stands the monument to the Father of Our Country. And behind me, the towering presence of the Great Emancipator -- he secured our union at the moment of its most perilous time and freed those whose captivity was our greatest shame.
And over these grounds where we are so honored to stand today, we feel the spirit of the Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He, who on this very day two score and seven years ago, gave voice to a dream that would challenge us to honor the sacred charters of our liberty that all men are created equal.
Now in honoring these giants, these giants who are linked by a solid rock foundation of faith in the one true God of justice - in honoring them, we must not forget the ordinary men and women on whose shoulders they stood. The ordinary called for extraordinary bravery. I'm speaking, of course, of America's finest, our men and women in uniform, a force for good in this country and that is nothing to apologize for.
Abraham Lincoln once spoke of the mystic chords of memory stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land. And for over two hundred years, those mystic chords have bound us in gratitude to those who are willing to sacrifice, to restrain evil, to protect God-given liberty, to sacrifice all in defense of our country.
They fought for its freedom at Bunker Hill, they fought for its survival at Gettysburg and for the ideals on which it stands - liberty and justice for all - on a thousand battlefields far from home.
It is so humbling to get to be here with you today, Patriots. You, who are motivated and engaged and concerned - knowing to never retreat. I must assume, knowing that you too know, that we must not fundamentally transform America as some would want - we must restore America and restore her honor.
Now I've been asked to speak today, not as a politician. No, something more, something so much more -- I've been asked to speak as the mother of a soldier and I am proud of that distinction.
You know, say what you want to say about me, but I raised a combat vet and you can't take that away from me. Proud of that distinction, but it is not one that I had imagined because no woman gives birth thinking that she will hand over her child to her country but that's what mothers have done from ancient days.
In cities and towns across our country, you'll find monuments to brave Americans wearing the uniforms of wars from long ago, and look down at their inscriptions, you'll see that they were so, so often dedicated by mothers.
Today we honor those in those distance lands across this globe, where you'll find silent fields of white markers with the names of Americans who never came home but who show their dedication to their country by where they died. We honor those who served something greater than selves and made the ultimate sacrifice as well as those who served and did come home, forever changed by the battlefield.
Though this rally is about restoring honor, for these men and women, honor was never lost. If you look for the virtues that have sustained our country, you will find them in those who wear the uniform, who take the oath, who pay the price for our freedom. Transcribed by Devonia Smith, Dallas Political Buzz Examiner
Dallas, Texas. One of the most shameful distinctions of misguided "honor" occurred in Dallas when Yaser Said slayed his two beautiful teenage daughters - honor killings. That Dallas father has never faced justice.
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Comments
Hi Dev!
Wasn't that a wonderful speech by Sarah?! She is filled with the patriotism and love of country that makes our country great. I truly enjoy her enthusiasm and authenticity ~ when she, like Beck, speaks, you know it is coming from the heart.
What a great rally, God Bless Them!
Thanks for transcribing that speech Dev, good stuff!
Sarah needs to read up on Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln hated war and would have avoided it if he could have. He saw no merit in it, and did not view serving as a great honor. (And in his time it was customary for men to pay someone else to serve for them, and many just-off-the-boat immigrants fought for the North.) Abraham Lincoln was ambivalent about slavery. Personally, he didn't think it was right, but politically, he felt if allowing Slavery kept the Union together, he would allow it - for all states, for some states, for no states, if one of those paths would keep the Union whole, he would allow that.. To Lincoln, the most important thing was keeping the Union together, and if war was the only way to do that, then war it was. Emancipation was not the reason, and it was not the goal. Emancipation happened because Lincoln wanted the Negroes to rise up against the South, and he wanted to placate and inspire Northern factions, as the North was losing the war. Unity was Lincoln's goal. Lincoln was pragmatic about how to achieve that goal.
Martin Luther King wanted equality for all men. Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck can praise him all they want, but they've shown precious little care for equality of all men. Unborn men, yes. American Christian straight white men, yes. But not equality for all men.
Palin and Beck don't understand pragmatism, let alone national unity, and they don't seem to have much of a handle on US history.
These are the words of someone who sees every person through the prism of his/her own racism. Read it and pray that they can be healed from this sickness.
"Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck can praise him all they want, but they've shown precious little care for equality of all men. Unborn men, yes. American Christian straight white men, yes. But not equality for all men."
Where you see racism, I see a two people who work hard to promote the rights of a small group of people over the rights of others. If Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck truly thought all Americans had equal rights they would have been promoting the rights of Muslim Americans, not stirring up animosity against them. But NEITHER of them have condemned the hatred that caused one young thug to stab a cab driver in NY or the fire in the TN mosque. NEITHER of them have condemned racist spoutings of others about Obama. NEITHER of them have tried to point out any flaws in the AZ law that promotes racial profiling (how could it not?) in its quest to root out those crime-spreeing illegal Hispanics. Sarah Palin has not made a stand about the desperate inequality and poverty amongst the Native Americans in her former governorship of Alaska. NEITHER of them stand for the right for homosexuals to have the benefits of marriage under US law.
They do NOT stand for the equality of ALL Americans.
Great speech by Gov. Sarah Palin. She was the main attraction at Beck's event.
You've have an error in your post. Sarah Palin is not a 'Gov.". She quit that job a while ago. She no longer holds any political power in Alaska and only did for a short period of time. Her experience holding office is very limited. She left her post so that she could make more money speaking and being on television. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I would have done the same. It's the American tradition, 'get rich any way you can'.
God Bless those who have made the ultimate sacrifice for this country.
May God comfort their families.
God bless all of those who fight for this country in any and every way.
And may God have mercy on Americas enemies.
They are going to need it.
"We honor those who served something greater than selves and made the ultimate sacrifice as well as those who served and did come home, forever changed by the battlefield."
Our military deserves nothing less!
Sharon
Progressive Preacher Russell D. Moore Blasts Glenn Becks rally as "Fox News at Prayer." Moore served as an aid to Democratic Congressman Gene Taylor of Mississippi and now seeks to sway Christians against Beck based on Religion and Politics.
http://www.russellmoore.com/2010/08/29/god-the-gospel-and-glenn-beck/
Bearsrepeating,
Those people will forever be *enslaved* by their own racism and liberal indoctrination.
Typical, pitiful.
We have been praying for such healing for decades. Unfortunately it is those who scream 'Racist!" who are perpetuating 'racism'......and make no mistake, they know it.
It seems honor goes mostly to the fallen, and not as much to those who have given, nor to their families who give literally til it hurts. When communities and non-profit organizations have to have benefit dinners to support the disabled vet and/or his family, something is wrong with the picture. When families are told their returning sons and daughters are at high risk for suicide, for car accidents due to driving under the influence or at high speed, for domestic violence, and for mental illnesses such as PTSD and depression, but given precious little in the way of help for, something is wrong with with this picture. When the militaries allow people to enter their ranks instead of going to jail (Palin's son) or actively recruit people with false promises (my own nephew) something is wrong with this picture. When the leaders of the country promote war as patriotic and necessary but refused (Clinton), deferred (Cheney, Rumsfeld, and many, many others both D and R), or diluted (Bush Jr) military experience for themselves, something is wrong with this picture. When our sons and daughters return, without limbs and/or with fragile states of mind, and our military leaves them without help or hope, something is very, very wrong with this picture. These young men and women are coming to a country where have the people pat them on the back but vote against spending on their medical care or other social needs and the other half pats them on the back and says their efforts were in vain. Their families live in poverty and there are no jobs, let alone jobs for physically or mentally disabled people. War is not glorious for these people, and there is no honor in the way they are treated. Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck and all the rest of these people like to drape themselves in a flag and carry a big cross, to paraphrase Sinclair Lewis, but it's still fascism they are promoting. They talk about honor and the constitution, but their equality means to "take back" the country for themselves - Christian white conservatives - and to keep minorities (in this case American Muslims and Hispanic Americans) at bay where they can keep an eye on them and constantly question their citizenship and patriotism.
Yep, this figures, doesn't it. I would be shocked if he had watched. This speaks for itself.......if it is anything GOOD for the country, Øbama will NOT be involved. Shame.
Obama: Beck ‘Able to Stir Up a Certain Portion of the Country’
August 30, 2010 12:18 A.M. By Robert Costa
President Obama tells NBC News that he did not watch Glenn Beck’s “Restoring Honor” rally on Saturday. But, he says, “Given all those anxieties . . . it’s not surprising that somebody like a Mr. Beck is able to stir up a certain portion of the country. That’s been true throughout our history.”
I guess he figured all those hundred of thousands of people were just more of those who are "bitter" and "cling to guns or religion or antipathy..... as a way to explain their frustrations"
as he so 'eloquently' stated in the past.
More "Anonymous" racist BS.
If YOU CHOOSE to disassociate yourself from them on your grounds of racism, such as your comment of "Christian white conservatives" that is on YOU and YOUR racism!
Beck and Palin's message is and was ALL-INCLUSIVE, and God does not discriminate ~ YOU do!
" They talk about honor and the constitution, but their equality means to "take back" the country for themselves - Christian white conservatives - and to keep minorities (in this case American Muslims and Hispanic Americans) at bay where they can keep an eye on them and constantly question their citizenship and patriotism."
The above statement is progressive liberal propaganda poppycock.
Geee, why don't the racist libbies CONDEM the HATRED that murdered 3000+ on 9/11??
Hummm??
BTW, Did anyone hear Beck or Palin "stirring up animosity against" Muslims or anyone else? NO!! I didn't think so!
More "liberal propaganda poppycock" is RIGHT!
@anonymous,
Is it the white part, the Christian part, or the conservative part that you have a problem with?
“One race, the human race, and we are called on by God to love one another. He (MLK) would call on us to put away our divisive past…” Alveda King
Part of the speech given by Alveda King, niece of Martin Luther King Jr., at the Restoring Honor Rally hosted by Glenn Beck.
(Oh my, is this more racist, hateful speech at the Beck rally? Yeah, right!)
I do believe Mr. King would want our divisive past to finally be put away, but the racist liberal left will not allow it to be, evident clearly in some of the above posts. Again, shame!
From Ms T-Rius ~
@anonymous,
Is it the white part, the Christian part, or the conservative part that you have a problem with?
~~~~~~~~~
Ms T,
I believe their rascism is "all-inclusive"! LOL
Hi Deni!
Given that obama is bi racial, and claims to be a Christian, he himself is ONE HALF
of the "white Christian conservative" comment.
White 1/2 of 1
Christian all of 1
Consevative 0 of 1
---------------------------------------
1 and 1/2 of 3
Pooooooooooor libs. All that social engineering psychobabble, and no math skills. LOL!
I think it's really funny to see the Palin/Beck fans attack 'anonymous' for stating the obvious: that Sarah et all want "equality" for a handful of American citizens and ignore the rest. How is that racist thinking? Are Christians a race now? Are straight people a race now? Please, do a little thinking (and perhaps some soul searching) before using a racist label. (For the record, I think we are ALL part of the human race, and I have been know to list myself as that on official government forms, as I personally think the whole notion of race promotes the idea of inequality due to perceived fundamental differences.) And it doesn't appear that 'anonymous' is calling Palin or Beck racist, just pointing out that they take rather limited stands when it comes to equality. You can quote MLK and you can quote his offspring, but can you quote Palin or Beck where they state something about EVERYONE?
As for the 3000 who died in 9/11, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Muslims died there too. Yes, it was fanatical Middle Eastern Muslims with hatred in their hearts and heads who bombed our NYC buildings. It was not, however, American Muslims, nor was it 3/5ths of the world's Muslim community who held this hatred, and ALL of their leaders, almost to a person, IMMEDIATELY condemned the attack, as did Liberal leaders. Such an accusation from the radical right wing of this country is typical of narrow-minded thinking; when you can't address the argument - specifally the fact that neither Palin nor Beck have any kind of record to show their stands on equality for ALL people - you attack the people who made the argument, and you use inflammatory remarks to deflect. Your outrageous statements don't prove anything, baseless and fact-free as they are.
And I don't have a problem with white (I am), Christian (I am), or conservative (I am in some things, but not in others.) I do have a problem with people pretending these are the only people in the world who matter. I am self-confident and secure enough in my standing as a white, Christian American to know that extending equal rights to gays, to Hispanics, to Blacks, to Muslims and people of other faiths does not in any way take anything away from me and my rights. We are all equal, even those of us who do not have a religion and those of us who do not have American citizenship. In American, all Americans, no matter the color, the religion, the sex, the sexual orientation, are all guaranteed the same rights under the US constitution. It's what makes this country better than other countries. And it's up to us citizens to defend our rights and freedoms HERE AT HOME from those HERE AT HOME who would limit them or take them away from other American citizens.
Katie VW
"These are the words of someone who sees every person through the prism of his/her own racism. Read it and pray that they can be healed from this sickness."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sound like a buch of doublethink to me.
"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies — all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth. ” - George Orwell, 1984.
"WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."
Oh excellent Orwellian quote.
Katie VW
@Katie
“Sarah et all want "equality" for a handful of American citizens and ignore the rest”
By that statement, you must be referring to the pro-life and pro-marriage (between and man and a woman) stance.
And you say you are “Christian”? Really? How do you reconcile the Bible’s telling of Sodom and Gomorrah? By virtue of your own statements, you are either extremely conflicted, extremely ignorant of Christianity, or simply a liar.
God would not sanction the murder of innocent children, either in or out of the womb.
However, God did sanction holy matrimony. Let me give you the definition of “matrimony”~
mat·ri·mo·ny
noun \ˈma-trə-ˌmō-nē\
: the union of man and woman as husband and wife : marriage
Just as your comment that you are “conservative” on >some things but not on others< you want to have things both ways in your liberal kum ba yah world. Reality nor morality lends itself to that thinking.
However liberal thinking is neither moral nor virtuous, so I am sure you will fit right in there.
"American" Muslims are no less Muslim. By virtue of their very ideology, Islam, they do not integrate nor assimilate. I suggest you do your research of Islam before you speak on the subject. Like most politically correct liberal ideologues, you mistakenly have no idea of what you support. Your statements are 'baseless and fact-free'. Islam claims to be the "the religion of Peace", but it is far from "peaceful". The "peace" of which they speak, is when the entire world's population is converted to Islam, but any means ~ peaceful or violent. There is NO tolerance for any other religion on this earth.
Unlike many so-called “Christians, who wear the cloak of Christianity when it is convenient, then shed it like dirty underwear when it is not (like you for instance), Muslims live their Islamic ideology daily. It is a way of life. And you dear lady, are not their friend, you are an “infidel” (non-Muslim) to them. They are forbidden to befriend any "infidel". I urge you to learn what is to be done to the “infidels” in their three sacred texts, the Quran, Hadith and Sira. Again, the goal, the mission of Islam is for *everyone* to be Muslim, so what do you suppose happens to all who refuse? Do you know? It is not pretty. Study up.
Are you a feminist? Are you familiar with female genital mutilation? Ahhh, another Muslim practice from the ‘religion’ of peace and love.
Deception is acceptable in the promotion of Islam.
We are all "equal" only to the Christian point of view, not the Muslim point of view. Ignorance in this case is not bliss, and could very well be deadly.
There is no utopian paradise in this world, that is the REALITY. Just as there is good, there is evil, just as there is right, there is wrong. "inflammatory remarks"?......try TRUTH.
Your self admitted half conservative, half liberal doublethink, obviously obstructs your judgment.
Here is a link to a great site to start your learning experience, it is a Christian site;
http://www.muslimhope.com/index.html
Here is another informative site;
http://www.cspipublishing.com/
As for your non-Christian views on morality, I simply suggest the Bible.
And yes Katie, that was an excellent Orwellian quote, it suits your doublethink perfectly.
All of your post "bearsrepeating" Deni; however I particularly liked
Unlike many so-called “Christians, who wear the cloak of Christianity when it is convenient, then shed it like dirty underwear when it is not (like you for instance), Muslims live their Islamic ideology daily. It is a way of life. And you dear lady, are not their friend, you are an “infidel” (non-Muslim) to them. They are forbidden to befriend any "infidel"
Oh Deni, you are so predictable you're hysterical. How do you reconcile Sodom and Gomorrah (and Leviticus, for that matter) with the books of Psalms and Solomon, and with the references to King David, whose homosexuality was well known and accepted, as long as he fulfilled his kingly duty of begetting an heir? How do you reconcile Jesus's teachings of tolerance and love - and turning the other cheek - with your narrow-minded grasp of Christianity? The God of the old testament did encourage the slaying of innocent children in the name of sacrifice. The God of the old testament encouraged wife beating, slavery, and all manner of violence of man against man. Jesus in the new testament does not. How do you reconcile that?
As for what an American Muslim thinks of me, I have American Muslim friends and relatives. Do you? Have you read the Q'ran? Do you understand the five pillars of faith, which preach a complete devotion to one God, and to show special consideration for the 'people of the book', namely the other followers of the old testament, such as Christians and Jews, because we all show devotion to the same one God? I am not an infidel to my Muslim friends, and I am not an infidel according to their Imam. My Catholic cousin is married to a Muslim. His mosque accepted her, her church does not accept him. His mosque recognizes their marriage, hers does not. And BTW - while he considers himself definitely Muslim, he doesn't pray every day nor attend the mosque every week, and he doesn't seem to fit your one-size-fits-all idea of extremely devout Muslims ready to murder "infidels." In fact, none of the Muslims I know fit that description. One of my Muslim friends immediately joined the Army after 9/11, and he did two tours in Afghanistan. He was horrified that the fanatics did something so atrocious.
I don't expect all Christians to bomb abortion clinics or murder the associated doctors, but I recognize that some Christian nut cases exist. Why should you not be able to differentiate between Muslims? Your 'informative sites' tell me what you believe, that doesn't mean they're the absolute truth.
A marriage, as recognized by the United States, can and should allow homosexuals to marry. I'm talking grown, consenting adults. Why not? It's not a church matter, and churches, which are exempt from so many legal matters, like taxes, would be exempt from this matter as well. As I already mentioned, the Catholic church wouldn't marry and doesn't recognize a marriage between a Catholic female and a Muslim male, but that doesn't mean they couldn't get married in a civil ceremony. It's not a civil union, it's a marriage, legal and recognized in these United States. Why can't homosexuals be allowed the same right? Dictionary definitions evolve, so quoting me a definition of marriage means nothing.
But your mind is closed, you've decided.
What did you think of the fact that Glenn Beck's rally included a Muslim Imam who prayed right along with him? Do you think he was not a Muslim?
Nice last sentence. Wow. You really told me off! Oh my. I'm so chastized. Right up there with telling me I shed my Christianity (which you insist I either don't understand or am lying about) like "dirty underwear" . As I said, your mind is closed. I'm comfortable in my faith, I guess the big question here is, why aren't you? What are you so afraid of?
@anonymous
"Sarah et all want "equality" for a handful of American citizens and ignore the rest"
That Handfull being The Majority! LOL
And Your misrepresentation is noted duly.
Though the minority may be protected, the will of the majority is how a constitutional republic operates.
Though the minority may be protected, the will of the majority is how a constitutional republic operates.
And thank God for that!!! Sarah Palin and Glen Beck will always have the right to rally and to speak, but the rest of will vote more intelligent and tolerant people into office.
KatieVW
I forgot to sign my name to the ridiculously lengthy reply to Deni, but it was me, Katie VW.
Yeah Katie. We have seen the "intellect" and the "tolerance" of the people you voted in.
That is why the Majority will soon show them the Exit. LOL!
The Majority put the current people in power. Informed, intelligent voters tend to do that.
It will be interesting to see if the pendulum swings the other way for the coming elections - will this new bumper-sticker slogan majority of yours vote in the people who think in 40 characters or less with made-up words? I hope not - I hope the voters are smarter than that. It would really be embarrassing to have a president who can't articulate one grammatically correct sentence that was based on specific facts and showed a grasp of the complexity of critical issues (or US history, or the US constitution, or geography, etc...) Your 'majority' better think hard about what it wishes for...
"Where you see racism, I see a two people who work hard to promote the rights of a small group of people over the rights of others." * Again, a viewpoint reflected from the prism of your own racism.
" If Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck truly thought all Americans had equal rights they would have been promoting the rights of Muslim Americans, not stirring up animosity against them." *Hmm, might you reference what you consider any statement of either that says, "Hate Muslims"? One will do.
"But NEITHER of them have condemned the hatred that caused one young thug to stab a cab driver in NY or the fire in the TN mosque." *They haven't condemned the Dallas Muslim that killed his teen age daughters as a matter of "Honor" either. So? Have you?
" NEITHER of them have condemned racist spoutings of others about Obama." *Again, "racial spoutings" is subjective, subject to the prism of your own racism.
"NEITHER of them have tried to point out any flaws in the AZ law that promotes racial profiling (how could it not?) in its quest to root out those crime-spreeing illegal Hispanics." AZ law is a mirror of federal law -- I suppose you think Federal immigration laws should be condemned as well?
"NEITHER of them stand for the right for homosexuals to have the benefits of marriage under US law. " *Any homosexual is free to marry and enjoy all the benefits of marrying at any time - always have been, always will be There is nothing to keep them from marrying. It's a right open to all.
Your arguments are vacuous.
Have you read the Q'ran?
I have read every word of that abomination. And i Understand Exactly what the cult has in mind.
They have been in the process of bringing about the end of civilization for 1400 years.
Evolve is Not in their cards.
Abortion is murder, no matter what it is "labeled."
Currently 37 states have passed laws which define marriage as limited to a union between one man and one woman.
BTW, that number is sufficient (two thirds of the states petition) to demand a constitutional convention and amend ( three fourths/38 if you round up ratify the amendment) the constitution accordingly .
Ms. T! Hi!
There's a cute little commercial that should apply to, ahem, Katie.
DISCOUNT!!!
I wonder if this new comment section allows for html code?
DISCOUNT!
We shall see..........
Oh that's lovely!!! Folks, we've got basic html! Yes!!!
Ms. T.
All religions can be classified as cults. Christianity has its fanatics and has its own exceptionally violent history in its quest to control and convert.
I am not arguing about whether abortion is murder. I would agree that abortion should not be used as a birth control method - ie for the convenience of a lazy woman who won't use other methods of birth control. But I firmly believe the decision should be in the hands of the mother as to whether to terminate the pregnancy. I won't debate this. (And guess what - I also believe in the death penalty, so I'm not hypocritical. And yes, I would consider that murder too. I also think murder in the name of war is justified, but not a war that's declared just because a president doesn't like another head of state. Iraq war was unjustified.)
As for marriage - what are you people sooooooo afraid of that you feel the need to enact laws defining marriage to exclude a group of people? How would their marriage affect you? Why are you so insecure about that? Yes, some states have laws. This will change, mark my words. Unless the US decides to take a giant leap backwards and degenerate into a fascist, theocratic (culty) state where people cower in fear from their government, marriages will be allowed between two consenting adult men or two consenting adult women. It will happen in our lifetime.
Our legislators will never take the time to try to pervert the US Bill of Rights to regulate people's private lives in that manner. The US Supreme court wouldn't allow it - not because the conservative members wouldn't secretly agree, but because they don't believe the legislative body should abuse its power in such a manner.
You don't have to have an abortion. And you don't have to marry someone of the same sex. You don't have to become Muslim. You don't have the right to take those decisions away from someone else. If you don't like that, you can go live in another country that suits your narrow-minded, fearful way of life.
Katie VW
Can't miss that, eh, Ms. T.? High Five!
Hi D. !
"anon" needs to lay of the sudafed. LOL!
Hi D. !
"anon" needs to lay ofF the sudafed. LOL!
Nopes you Can't miss it! Lol!
Could you dew it in perkle or pinx? ;;)
@Katie
Unfortunately this post is getting quite long, so I better send some of it.
We will start with the Old Testement and homosexuality~~
First, even in Old Testement times, God did not condone homosexuality.
The first mention of it is in Genesis, as previously noted. We all remember when the wicked men of Sodom attempted a homosexual rape of two messengers (angels?) from God who had come to visit Lot. As a result of his act, along with the total wickedness of these cities, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by fire and brimstone.
The next two mentions of homosexuality are in Leviticus. I will quote ~~
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)
If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)
Not sounding like God condoned this behavior…………
In research, there are 12 mentions of homosexuality in the Bible. They are ~~
Genesis 19:5, Judges 19:22 ~ refer to rape
Deuteronomy 23:17-18, 1 Kings 14:23-24, 15:12-13, 22:46, 2 Kings 23:6-8 ~ refer to cult prostitution
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ~ refers to prostitution and pederasty
Leviticus 18:21-22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Timothy 1:8-10 ~ these are nonspecific, but call the act detestable, as both mentions from Leviticus does.
Reconciling is not a difficult task. We must note that in old testament times, life was harsh and so was punishment, with the death penalty called for crimes of murder, attacking or cursing a parent, kidnapping, failure to confine a dangerous animal resulting in death, witchcraft and sorcery, sex with an animal, doing work on the Sabbath, incest, adultery, homosexual acts, prostitution by a priest's daughter, blasphemy, false prophecy, perjury in capital cases and false claim of a woman's virginity at the time of marriage.
Homosexuality in those days was closely associated with idolatrous cult prostitution.
In the new testament, the people are no longer under the harsh Old Testament Law, and the message is one of repentance and redemption.
Now, in the new testament, Jesus never mentioned homosexuality by name, but He did condemn all forms of sexual immorality ~ an example:
What comes out of you is what defiles you. For from within, out of your hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile you. (Mark 7:20-23)
Now, as for David being homosexual, that is debatable, with arguments being made on both sides. Here is what a Bible scholar says on the subject;
It's unfortunate that many people equate sex with love. Any two people can indulge in sex, but they don't necessarily love each other. Such people are the ones who promote the idea of homosexuality between Jonathan and David.
Now comes a problem. These same people have an ally in the Hebrew language. The Hebrew word for love (אהב אהב or 'âhab, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #H157) in 1Samuel 18:1,3; 20:17, refers to having affection for, sexually or otherwise. Naturally those who see David and Jonathan as lovers conveniently overlook the OTHERWISE.
They also overlook the fact that 'âhab is used elsewhere in the Old Testament for non-sexual love. In Genesis 22:2 God told Abraham to offer his son Isaac, whom he loved ['âhab], as a sacrifice. With Abraham more than a hundred years of age, and Isaac being a young adult, this was not likely sexual love.
Isaac was old and blind when he called for his son, Esau, to shoot a deer and "make me savory meat, such as I love ['âhab] ." (Genesis 27:1-4). Certainly nothing sexual in this.
Joseph was his father's favorite son, and when his brothers saw their father loved ['âhab] him more than the rest, they hated him (Genesis 37:3-4).
Possibly the most important consideration of the word LOVE is in the Ten Commandments. God said,
"You shall make no graven images . . . you shall not bow down to them . . . or I am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children . . . and showing mercy to thousands of them that love ['âhab] me." (Exodus 20:4-6; Deuteronomy 5:8-10)
Therefore, I am sure this debate will go on. However, even if David was homosexual, it still did not make it right or condoned in God’s eyes, as evidenced in the scriptures cited.
To be continued~ (sorry Dev for the loooooong posts!)
Okay back now, my behind was numb, lol
to continue @Katie
Now on to your point of:
“The God of the old testament did encourage the slaying of innocent children in the name of sacrifice. The God of the old testament encouraged wife beating, slavery, and all manner of violence of man against man. Jesus in the new testament does not. How do you reconcile that?”
(First, it is noted your ‘detached’ reference to “The God of the Old Testment”, instead of simply God, lending a feeling of impersonal relationship to God, and the remainder of your comment notes a feeling of hostility towards Him. Just an observation.)
Now, again we must note the antiquity and harsh society of the Old Testament, and the theme of the New Testament being, instead, repentance and redemption.
It is indeed true that the Bible contains numerous references to slavery, (in five books) and it can be argued that these references imply an ‘acceptance’ of slavery. The problem is that when modern day Americans think of "slavery," they think of ‘whites enslaving Africans’ as that is the experience our nation has known. This is not the type of slavery referred to in the Bible.
The only valid way to comprehend the Bible is the historical and grammatical method. We need to understand the historical context of the Bible's references, and relate to it from there. The Bible's associated references to slavery do not automatically mean a comprehensive ‘endorsement’ for all forms of slavery throughout the ages. Slavery in the Bible refers mainly as an indentured servitude agreement, and was almost always on an agreed upon term basis - 7 years, 14 years, and so on.
It seems to me Katie, that you are basing your opinions in trying to equate ancient times with today’s modern society. And your need to force reconciliation tells me perhaps you do not believe? understand? the scriptures. It tells me you have a need to bend, twist, manipulate them into something you can believe in, instead of reading each book for what it is at face value, allowing the Holy Spirit to discern with you.
It is evident we have very different views of God and Christianity. I will chalk our differences up to the liberal view and the conservative view. To clarify, the liberal mentality is “If it feels good do it” and are champions of the promiscuous behaviors we have discussed.
It is unfortunate you feel chastised, and it is a good thing you are ‘comfortable‘ with your faith. That is between you and your God, as mine is.
My mind is not 'closed' Katie, I just know what I believe, and I believe the same thing today and tomorrow. I am not half a Christian, or half a conservative, or half a patriot.
I have enjoyed our foray, it has caused me to research and revisit topics I have neglected for far too long.
Now lastly, as your opinions on Islam and your Muslim friends, you made so many comments I could debate, it would take hours and pages. I will post some information for you. Take it or leave it, it is of no consequence to me. Ultimately you will believe what you wish, and it is not my job to change your mind. Knowledge is power, and in the end, truth will always wins out. History will tell us what is 'true'.
Good Day.
Hi Ms. T !
Hi Deni!
No problem, it's all free white space. Fill it up!
For informational purposes;
From Bill Warner, the director of the Center for the Study of Political Islam (CSPI) ~~
(Background ~ Bill Warner holds a PhD in physics and math, NC State University, 1968. He has been a university professor, businessman, and applied physicist. A scholar in religion, Dr. Warner has had a life-long interest in religion and its effects on history. He has studied the source texts of the major religions for decades.)
Political Islam has annihilated every culture it has invaded or immigrated to. The total time for annihilation takes centuries, but once Islam is ascendant it never fails. The host culture disappears and becomes extinct.
We must learn the doctrine of political Islam to survive. The doctrine is very clear that all forms of force and persuasion may and must be used to conquer us. Islam is a self-declared enemy of all unbelievers. The brilliant Chinese philosopher of war, Sun Tsu, had the dictum—know the enemy. We must know the doctrine of our enemy or be annihilated.
Or put another way: if we do not learn the doctrine of political Islam, our civilization will be annihilated just as Egypt’s Coptic civilization was annihilated.
Since unbelievers must know the doctrine of political Islam to survive, CSPI has written all of its books in simple English. Our books are scholarly, but easy to read. As an example, anyone who can read a newspaper can pick up A Simple Koran and read and understand it. It is not “dumbed down” and contains every single word of the original.
Not only is the language simple, but logic has been used to sort and categorize. Context and chronology have been restored. The result is a Koran that is an epic story ending in triumph over all enemies of Allah. All of our books and philosophy may be found at our center’s website ~ http://www.cspipublishing.com/
Islam declares that we are the enemies of Allah. If we do not learn the political doctrine of Islam we will end up just like the first victims of Islam—the tolerant, polytheist Arabs of Saudi Arabia who became the Wahabbis (a very strict branch of Islam) of today, the most intolerant culture on the face of the earth.
For informational purposes ~
Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book:
(Background ~ Dr. Peter Hammond is a missionary who has pioneered evangelistic outreaches in the war zones of Mozambique, Angola and Sudan. Rev. Peter Hammond is the Founder and Director of Frontline Fellowship, the Founder and Chairman of Africa Christian Action, the Director of the Christian Action Network and the Chairman of The Reformation Society. He is the author of The Greatest Century of Missions, Faith Under Fire in Sudan, Holocaust in Rwanda, the Great Commission Manual, Faith in Action, Putting Feet to Your Faith, In the Killing Fields of Mozambique, Biblical Principles for Africa, the Discipleship Handbook, Slavery, Terrorism and Islam - the Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat, The Greatest Century of Reformation the Power of Prayer Handbook and The Ten Commandments - God's Perfect Law of Liberty.)
This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish. Maybe this is why our ‘American’ Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.
Can a good Muslim be a good American?
This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.
The following is his reply:
Theologically - no . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia
Religiously – no… Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)
Scripturally - no… Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.
Geographically – no… Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially - no… Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
Politically - no…Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.
Domestically - no… Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34)
Intellectually - no… Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically - no… Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Spiritually - no… Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.
Therefore, after much study and deliberation.. ...
They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans.
Call it what you wish, it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.
Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.
SO OUR FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
by Ms T-Rius
Yeah Katie. We have seen the "intellect" and the "tolerance" of the people you voted in.
That is why the Majority will soon show them the Exit. LOL!
Here is a reality check to keep in mind when someone issues another condemnation of Islamophobia in the Western World.
In many Muslim countries, discrimination against Christians and Jews is not just practiced, it is codified into law. Thus, consider Egypt, which is one of the more secular and moderate countries in the Muslim World with a sizable religious minority of Coptic Christians. Egyptian law stipulates that a "Muslim man may marry a Christian woman but the opposite is forbidden; and if a Muslim woman does marry a Christian man, both the husband and the wife would be considered adulterers". This quotation is drawn verbatim from a UN document.
It is noteworthy that civil, rather than just religious, laws prevent Christian men from marrying Muslim women. Marrying an Israeli woman is an entirely different matter altogether. "An Egyptian appeals court upheld a ruling that orders the country's Interior Ministry to strip the citizenship from Egyptians married to Israeli women" (Associated Press report of June, 2010).
While conversion to Islam is encouraged in Muslim countries, conversion from Islam to another religion is a sin. And since the legal systems in many Muslim countries are based on Sharia law, such apostasy is also a crime, and we are not talking about the most fanatical countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia or Sudan.
A curious piece of trivia in Harper's index style: the approximate number of mosques in New York City: 80; the approximate number of mosques in Jerusalem: 70; the number of churches and synagogues in whole Saudi Arabia: 0. Furthermore, Christians in Saudi Arabia have been arrested and lashed in public for practicing their faith openly.
A quote from the Sermon on the Mount (Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 7) pretty much sums it up:
“Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.”
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/08/islam_islamophobia_christoph...
Deni those posts were right on..... no one could say it better.
I am constantly amazed at the way liberals attempt to use the bible to shame folks into agree with them, to somehow rationalize their perception of conservatives, as hateful, mean people..... when all that's truly happened is, they've looked at the world, and other people through a very narrow tunnel of personal opinion and beliefs.
The same thing they accuse us of doing LOL...
Tolerant? No, they're not even a little tolerant, not unless you agree with them.
Amy
Awesome posts again Deni! And I believe you're right, about David....
Katie,
As per your war comment, don't you think the Afghanistan and Iraq wars were a little more complicated than just being based on "not liking a head of state"?
The strife the US had tolerated, and other countries near Iraq for near 25 years at the hands of Saddam Hussein was egregious, and lest we forget, that Clinton bombed Iraq in the 90's....
Do you suppose Clinton was justified? Why wasn't Bush? Are you aware that the UN (albeit the useless nation) gave numerous resolutions over the years, during the Bush 41, Clinton, and Bush43 presidencies?
Are you also aware the the Congress voted to go to war, save Obama naturally. But most other dems did.....
Do they bear any responsibility? What about the UN? They essentially gave the USA permission to invade....
Why do you insist on such blatant partisanship instead of objectivity to form your opinions? That is the way it seems to work with you.
Is there ever any common ground, in terms of Obama being beyond reproach but Bush being evil incarnate? Are all conservatives , stupid, evil, intolerant folks, or have you ever even for a second considered that you just might be wrong?
Amy
Amy
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