To help my own understanding I like to check footnotes and crunch numbers. You've all heard it right? It's all over the blogosphere. It's in all the Rifqa Bary articles. Atlas Shrugs knows it. Jihad Watch knows it. The United Nations Population Fund estimates that 5,000 Muslim women are victims of honor killings annually. Wow! That's a major problem.
Let's start with the footnote.
UNFPA: Chapter 3: Ending Violence against Women and Girls
"Throughout the world, perhaps as many as 5,000 women and girls a year are murdered by members of their own families..."
It's not 5,000 Muslim honor killings. It's 5,000 women and girls murdered by members of their own family. Huge difference! Women murdered in America would be included as part of that statistic. The report does say many (not most) of them are honor killings, and the majority of honor killings are in Muslim majority countries, but it makes no estimate as to how many that is. I'm not trying to diminish the issue, just refine the statistics. Honor killings are a major problem.
Now, let's give it some perspective.
Let's accept the 5,000 number as our first sample, flawed as it is. We'll presume all 5,000 women and girls murdered by members of their own families are Muslim, even though we know that's not true, and put motive aside for the moment. A recent report from the The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that there are an estimated 1.57 billion Muslims in the world, which is approaching 25% of the world population. We'll use that as our second sample. That's 3.2 per Million Muslim women murdered by their family annually.
Now, lets look at America.
According the FBI Expanded Homicide Data There were 14,180 US murders in 2008. Of those, 930 were women and girls murdered by their own families. We'll use that as our first sample. According to The Bartleby World Factbook for 2008 the United States had approximately 301 million people the year these statistics were gathered. So, let's accept that as our second sample. That's 3.1 per Million American women murdered by their family annually.
So the difference between the rate at which Muslims murder women in their family and Americans murder women in their family is 1 per 10 Million. That's a statistically insignificant difference, especially considering we know the 5,000 sample would actually include the 930 American murders.
But, let's talk about another 5,000 people who died in the name of Honor. Take a look at this exchange between Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee during the last Republican Primary debates.
According to Ron Paul, at that point in the conflict we'd lost 5,000 American lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's much more than that now, and that doesn't include civilian casualties. Huckabee's argument for staying in the conflict was, "We’ve got a responsibility to the honor of this country, and to the honor of every man and woman who has served in Iraq, and ever served in our military to not leave them with anything less than the honor that they deserve.”
I'm confused. I guess John McCain understands honor, and Mike Huckabee acts like he does. Maybe it’s me. Maybe I don’t understand honor. Let’s ask Google.
- “Honour (or honor) is the concept of a direct relation between one's virtues (or "values") and their status within society. Accordingly, individuals are assigned worth and stature based on a harmony between their own code of honour and that of the society at large.” (Wikipedia)
- “the quality of will that enables a person to confront fear or danger regardless of the consequences; bravery” (Veterans vocabulary)
- “For the Greeks honor was a central virtue; honor was the respect which was due according to one's reputation and rank; it also suggested a keen sense of right and wrong.” (Iliad Glossary)
Ok… now that we know what honor means, let’s examine Huckabee's argument. We’ve got a responsibility to the honor of the people who broke Iraq not to leave Iraq without the honor they deserve… I don’t think that means anything. But he’s implying that if we leave Iraq it will dishonor America, especially the military. The first definition ties the virtue of the individual to the values of society. By this definition invading Iraq in the first place is dishonorable, and coming home is the honorable thing to do. In the second definition, the veteran's definition, honor is bravery. So, maybe on an incredibly superficial level the warmongers see coming home as a cowardly retreat. In this case coming home with honor means coming home with military victory. The Iraqi military was defeated in the first few months of the conflict. So, the only military victory left is against, “the terrorists.” But they won’t come to the battlefield. So, "honor" for the warmongers really means staying over there and killing more innocent civilians… Is that honor? I think it’s important to stress the Greek definition. Honor is the respect one earns for taking right action.
It's clear Huckabee and McCain don't know what honor means, and neither does most of the audience. To them honor just means wining every fight they get in. It's not about right action, or the values of our society. It's just stubborn stupid bravery. But, it's also clear that for the Americans who support these wars of foreign aggression a central motivation is the preservation of their national honor, and all the civilian casualties they callously call, "collateral damage" are honor killings.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" (Matthew 7:3)
So, I hope that's been helpful, or at least been thought provoking. To be clear, honor killings are a disgusting barbaric practice and I fully support the death penalty for these savages, whatever their creed. I find no basis for it in Islam. My heart is with the victims and their families. But sometimes I think we just need a little perspective.
May Allah put tranquility in the hearts of those who have lost loved ones. May He grant abundant mercy upon the souls of those taken from us. And may He visit His eternal justice upon these monsters. Everything right and true is from Allah. Any mistake is from myself. Astaghfirullah, wa alhamdulillah, wa lahaula wala quwata illa billah.
Comments
ASA,
WoW
Seriously, you equate a soldiers death with murdering your daughter because you can't deal with her behavior and it give a label to make yourself feel better!!??
Actually quite the opposite. I feel no personal moral culpability for the murder of young girls. I condemn it, and I take no part in it. Why should I feel responsible? On the other hand, I feel constant nagging sense of responsibility for the death of soldiers and those they murder because whether I like it or not I am paying for it, and tacitly supporting it just by living here.
My intention was never to make myself feel better, but to demonstrate that America has at leas as much of a problem with the murder of women and girls as Muslim majority countries, and a far greater problem with our willingness to murder for honor.
Whether you insist on comparing Apples and Oranges is your Problem. Soldiers Die for the sake of their Country. Period. Many of my friends died in Vietnam, "My War", and I became 100% Combat Disabled while there. Comparing the Soldier in the commission of his duty that he volunteered for is no way any comparison to the Animal behavior of Killing your Daughter because, in America, she doesn't want an arranged Marriage, or she has a Non-Muslim Boyfriend. Killing your Wife for wanting to divorce you is equally not any reason to kill her. They are GODs Children, and you, nor any other Human Being(loosley) have the right to control their lives to the extent of Death for your "Morals".
We all know that so called honor killings are not Islamic It is a practice which is prevalent in many parts of the world. Many culture have this in their communities and It is acceptable by the communities at large. In India this is very common in the western part of the Uttar Pradesh, Punjab, Haryana, Madhyapradesh, Rajasthan etc. Couple of years back NBC showed story of a Punjabi girl who went to India and married a boy she liked, her real mom and uncle got her murdered. There are so many stories going on everyday no one calls It religious thing why singling out Muslims when that's not the part of religion of Islam.
"Saudi female journalist gets 60 lashes for TV show"
there's no honor when it comes to killing your own children, whether it's for convenient marriages suited for the parents, or if the children don't conform to traditional dress or religious beliefs. if you as a parent kill one of your children, you'll kill a part of yourself no matter how stately your ideas are. My culture is no different from other societies that expect loyalty beyond one's individuality. My culture will humiliate their children into conformity. Now this may not be exactly killing one's own child, but it's still near death by another means. The parents torture your mind emotionally and bring out all your imperfections to debase you. From the way you dress to the way you think to the way you were born to look like.
There can be no denial that islamic sharia law and an extremely significant number of islamists around the world do support the death penalty for those who choose to leave islam.
Rifqa's case is even more grave because of the international attention her case attracted, which shined a bright spotlight on islam's embarrassing and barbaric rules on how to handle apostasy.
Given this context, authorities need to proceed with extreme caution when evaluating these apostasy cases. IF ISLAM WERE TRULY A PEACEFUL RELIGION, NON OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING.
Islam's chickens continue coming back to roost.
The Bible says that an Apostate from Christianity to any other religion should be put to death. EVEN IN THE NEW TESTAMAMENT. Rifqa should be afraid of her Christian captors because if she converts to any other faith after Christianity she could be put to death by her Evangelical hosts.
Here is what Christians themselves teach about disobeying parents!!!!
The New Testament - Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
Islam teaches that THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELGION.
Actually, Leviticus is the third book of the Bible, in the OLD Testament. lol!
Nonetheless, I thank the author for this honest article.
Davi, I thinks it best to save your knowledge on food instead of taking more shots at a 17 year old. Leave her alone. If I see another article on Rifqa Bary then I will contact a lawyer on reporting you for harassment.
Songbird - That's a pretty interesting comment considering that this article really has nothing to do with Rifqa Bary. Non the less, I do plan on putting out another article about the case in the next week or so. So, why don't you go ahead and call that lawyer and let me know how it goes. Oh! And while your at it, would you mind asking them about the same charge against those writers who continue to publish articles lying about me and my involvement in the case?
Davi, are you even aware of the Bill HR 1913 or the Health care bill? This will affect not just the Americans but will affect Muslims as well- and your worried about a 17 year old? I am so overwhelmed by all that's going on. I will continue to pray to
Yahweh and Yahshua (the true names of the Father and the Son) for Rifqa Bary's safety no matter how many articles you write on her.
Have a nice day Davi
Songbird... America elected a Marxist. Is this news? America is on the road to fascism. Is this news? I didn't vote for him. There are plenty of people writing about healthcare. If your argument is really that there are more important things for me to write about, do you make that same argument to Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller? Aren't there more important things for you to read about? That's great that you know the true names of whoever your worship. Threatening me with lawsuit is quite a bit different. Maybe if you could stay on topic and develop a coherent point this conversation would be smoother.
If you know that you wrote these stories about Rifqa with facts then there is no lawsuit- since it won't stand up in court. So there's nothing to worry about right?
Understand why I'm upset all I hear is a muslim father trying to run over his daughter who is too westernized. Or a shootout between the FBI and a Imam.
I want to know why Muslims despise the Jews and Christians so much? And Davi give me a straight answer and don't beat around the bush.
All I see is on the news or internet are family members attacking other family members who are muslim- wives or daughters.
I have no hate toward you Davi just disappointment.
I was fooled too into thinking that Jesus was Jesus and God was God. But that's not quite right. Yahshua and Yahweh is the true names of the Father and the Son. How in the world people got off so off base from that- is the biggest disappointment that I have.
Its time to be really careful on how people choose to do things and must make sure we do the rig
Heh wow I feel better thanks for listening. But if you want to help Rifqa Bary then help her. All I ask is stop bashing her 3 ways from Sunday alright?
If we swear on the Bible in court and then lie while under oath that's called perjury. And that person is thrown in jail.
But if a muslim swears on the quran and lies that's called Taqqiya. He or she is forgiven because they protected islam.
Now knowing this you can accuse Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer of lying all you want to. But to us lying is a sin and that's something we don't take lightly.
So no matter what you say now regarding Rifqa Bary I know your saying it as taqqiya to protect islam- and now knowing this your credibility just flew out the window.
Songbird - What I present is not based on my arbitrary assertions, but upon the evidence I bring forth. If it is false than the CIA factbook is lying. The UN report is lying. The FBI crime statistics are lying. Rifqa's affidavit is lying. The FDLE report is lying. And the Islamic scholars are lying not only to you, but to me as well. But if the scholars are lying to the Muslims about Taqqiya... than we couldn't know about it in the first place...
I had never heard of Taqqiya until Spencer brought it up. And even now I find no evidence of it in any primary sources, except that Muhammad told the Muslims in Mecca that they were free to deny their faith under torture from the Pagans. Regardless of what you say, that is not part of my beliefs.
But alhamdullilah! All praise be to God! If you're going to insinuate that everything I say is a lie, than there is no logical reason to continue talking to me, or to continue reading.
So I guess this is good bye, and God bless
Honor killings are something that are completely foreign to the Western mind, and that is why most Westerners still don't understand what it is, and have a hard time comprehending it. The idea of killing a family member because they have stained the honor of the family, the community, or the religion is a foreign concept to Americans and the West. There have always been murders, but I had never even heard of the idea of "honor killings" until I began hearing about cases like Amina and Sarah Said, whose Egyptian Muslim dad shot them both to death in Texas Jan. 1, 2008, because they were dating non-Muslim boys (and therefore, apparently had brought dishonor upon the family and upon Islam for not behaving as "good Muslim girls"); or Aqsa Parvez, who was killed in Canada after she refused to wear the hijab, the traditional Islamic headscarf for women, and declared her desire to dress like other Western girls.
Jeff:
Did you not read the article and supporting stats? Stop copying and pasting things and spamming the blogs without having an iota of understanding of what is being said. The author is saying that he is thinks honor killings are despicable and he thinks such people themselves don't deserve to live. But that didn't fit your anti-Islam narrative so you felt like chiming in your idiotic stupidity....
Jeff:
Did you not read the article and supporting stats? Stop copying and pasting things and spamming the blogs without having an iota of understanding of what is being said. The author is saying that he is thinks honor killings are despicable and he thinks such people themselves don't deserve to live. But that didn't fit your anti-Islam narrative so you felt like chiming in your idiotic stupidity....
So Jeff, either the Huckster doesn't have a "Western mind" or your full of crap.
Somehow the "Western Mind" manages to justify killing more women and children even without honor. You should be proud! Give yourself a metal!
Of course the West has no concept of honor killing. They have no concept of honor. They only kill for passion and profit.
I just feel so bad for all the girls and women who got killed by there own family. I just want to say i feel really bad and i always think about them and just cry.
Does anyone have any solid reasons for the "Honor Killing" that happened in Phoenix, AZ involving Faleh Almaleki and his daughter Noor?
An honor killing in the West is when a boyfriend/husband/lover kills a woman for wanting to leave the abusive relationship. They happen here too, though the details are different, it's the man wanting to preserve his own honor. Check out "Australia’s Honour killings – In the end, they’re just as dead"
Just stu time of conflictmbled into this page seeking info on so-called "Honor Killings".
The author changes course for an attack upon the "Honor of the American Military". All militaries have short comings and there were some whoopers during this time of war.
The author states; "Ok… now that we know what honor means, let’s examine Huckabee's argument. We’ve got a responsibility to the honor of the people who broke Iraq not to leave Iraq without the honor they deserve… I don’t think that means anything. But he’s implying that if we leave Iraq it will dishonor America, especially the military.
The United States Military didn't "break" Iraq, period. Iraq was broke for a long time before we arrived.
Saddam Hussien and him alone was and is responsible for the American Invasion. Saddam had 12 years to avoid his being overthrown. Violation after violation of UN agreements he agreeded to in the Cease Fire, there was no Peace Treaty signed after Saddams criminal 1991 Gulf War.
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