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In The Fountain, three men are obsessed with
immortality in different ways.
(c) 20th Century Fox.
A friend told me last week that he recently, and suddenly, became an atheist - and wished he wasn't...
I had seen him move from conservative Christian, to a Christian with a more liberal belief about scripture, to something even more general over the past few years. He said he was thinking a few days ago and realized he didn't even really believe the last bit, and let it go.
What intrigued me most was his expression that he wished he wasn't an atheist. He said he'd like to believe, but just didn't really see any supporting logic that would make such a thing reasonable to believe. I asked him, what exactly he'd like to believe. Turns out it wasn't so much about God, as it is the belief in immortality. God would be this guy hanging around on the side there, but the main point is that you'd be living forever, and that you'd get to see others who have died.
Admittedly, I think that would be pretty neat too.
We all have that desire, and it comes from the fact that we are organisms who survived after countless generations, where those who did not have a deep-seated instinctive wish to survive didn't try as hard, and perished before contributing as many offspring to the following generation. In other words, every lineage of living thing today really, really struggles to live because those lineages that didn't died off - probably long before we even creepethed out of our ancestral oceans. Unfortunately, that explanation for our desire has completely zero relevance to anything that would affect the likelihood of an afterlife being true. Mix that desire with an intelligence capable of imagining what it wants to believe, and you've got a superstition cocktail.
My friend showed exceptional intellectual integrity and self honesty in admitting his earlier belief had been based on things that aren't necessarily a wise way to establish our beliefs. Now he has before him the task of rebuilding a perspective, a sense of meaning, purpose, and value within his new worldview. It's a process not exactly the same, but similar to the one I went through years ago, and it can be an exciting process of wonder and discovery - one I am still hopefully on.
I told him that at some point, we can come to terms with our mortality. After all, death is no real mystery - I've been dead before. I was dead from about 13 billion years ago until 1971, and I don't recall it being all that bad.
There is a view of the universe, or a perspective - no, it's something more. But it's one that a person can attain in which the question of death takes on a whole new light. Attaining that perspective is kind of like seeing the three-dimensional image in one of those scrambled pictures. It looks like nothing at first, but you stare at it until finally it all comes together, and when it does you have an 'ah ha' moment. In this case, when that happens it feels like a religious experience - what I call profound experience. I can describe it here, but those who have had it know what I'm talking about.
I first had that experience in the mid-90's. I was reading about complex systems theory. A person can read about the interdependence and interconnectedness of things, about how the universe is one big system of cause and effect. A person can look at time as a tapestry, but there is a difference between knowing something intellectually, and finally grokking it in a way that it is perceived directly. When that happened for me, it was like stepping outside and catching a view of an amazing sunset by surprise - I felt my heart beating. It sends chills down your spine and you never forget that sense of awe and beauty again. It sticks with you, and it shapes how you think from that point on. You seek it out time and time again, and you seek refuge in it. You try your damnedest not to forget it, and not to let the world distract you into thinking in those old ways again.
One can easily see how religious figures in the past have felt like they had a revelation from a higher being. One of the next sensations is a sense of great concern that you'll never be able to communicate the experience to anyone else. But that feeling too is just a stage.
[Part 2, Depictions of this experience in film]
Comments
Personally, I always think that people who want to live forever lack imagination.
"but the main point is that you'd be living forever, and that you'd get to see others who have died."
This bit of wishful thinking does not survive critical analysis. Which version of "you" would survive forever, the one in your prime, or the diminished elderly you at time of death? What about those others you want to see in the afterlife, but whose disbelief sent them to the other place? Doesn't their absence diminish your eternal pleasure? What about people who have been married multiple times? And so on. It doesn't take a whole lot of sophistication to see through the myth of immortality.
Gordon Hide... I agree, though maybe for a different reason than you. The way I imagine immortality is complete and utter horror... because I feel anguish doing the same things repeatedly over the course of my relatively few years on this planet. So of course by extension, given an eternity to do everything an infinite number of times would cause unimaginable anguish! The frustration of Sisyphus is the frustration of anyone who lives for eternity.
"I was dead from about 13 billion years ago until 1971, and I don't recall it being all that bad."
How do you know that you were actually dead during that time?
EH... I'm sure the author is defining dead to mean that he was not conscious... and if you want to be picky you could also add in the requirement that for him to be conscious would require seemingly impossible effort (eg: gathering the necessary matter/energy and arranging it in just the right way such that the author's consciousness could be restored).
EH, I really don't know anything that may have happened if I have no memory of it, but I also don't know of any reason to suppose something of which I personally have no indication. Although I am limited in my ability to know all things, it certainly doesn't mean it's impossible. But, when it comes to seeking firm ground on which to base my perspectives, meaning, and value system, I like to start with what I know. Anything more than that would then be a pleasant and welcome surprise! Point being, I think what we *do* know of Nature is quite astounding and fulfilling in itself, and oft under-appreciated. So, I'd hope we fully appreciate that at least :)
I am athiast and I do not care about ---- heads such as god ect (i am almost 13) I have a heart condition. I hate my life. I cry when nobody is around girls can beat me up, 6 year olds can run faster than me. I can only run for 20 secound. we need to get out vactionations and i see a girl who's crying cause she doesnt want a needle. guess at what age i started having all thoes needles. 0!!!!! i recently had a operation where they need to change my pacemaker. i woke up during the ----ing operation! when they stabbed the knife into me! girls can beat me up!!!!!!!!!! tell me this why would someone create someone who didnt want to be. my goal is to eleminate the presence of RELIGON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!----!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KILL ME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GUYS DONT KNOW PAIN!!!!!!!! I SEE PEOPLE WORSE THAN ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 .SO TELL ME THIS WHY WOOULD GOD CREATE SOMEONE WHO DIDNT WANT TO BE!!
Hi Nathaniel,
It is true I haven't been in your situation. You said you see people worse than yourself and I do too. I work at a place that tries to help starving people, and I'm learning about millions of people who suffer every day in incredible ways. Sometimes trying to find ways to help people worse off than ourselves is the best way to cope with our own sadness. Also, it is important that the people around you who care for you know exactly how you feel. They can sometimes help you in ways you don't yet realize, so I would make sure to share your thoughts, pains, and feelings with them very honestly. I wish you the best Nathaniel. If you would like to talk some more, please email me at dtstrain@yahoo.com
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