Pantera's Cowboys From Hell Turns 20: An Interview with Philip Anselmo (part 1)

On July 24th, 1990, the once-glam metal band known as Pantera released an epic statement in the form of Cowboys From Hell. The album was to be the first in the new, revitalized purist heavy metal Pantera discography, and the statement was a loud, brash "f*ck you!"

Twenty years later, the music, power, success, and drama of Pantera and its members is far too lengthy to outline here, but vocalist Philip Anselmo, bassist Rex Brown, and drummer Vinnie Paul Abbott celebrated their ten years of success as Pantera and their martyred guitarist Dimebag Darrell by rereleasing the Cowboys From Hell record with demos, liner notes, and even a previously unreleased track.  With the release of the Ultimate Edition, which comes with a t-shirt, poster, and all kinds of Pantera tour memorabilia, Philip Anselmo, arguably the most outspoken and dominating frontman to ever represent heavy metal, called me and spoke at length about Pantera, Dimebag, and much more.  Read part one of my interview below, and click here for part two of this stunning interview.

Examiner: Good afternoon Phil, this is Elliot from Examiner.com, how’s it going?

 

Philip: Good! What’s been happening, man?

Examiner: I’m good, it’s a real honor for me to be speaking with you today. We’re talking about the 20th anniversary release of Cowboys From Hell, there’s the whole box set, now there’s even the Ultimate box set coming out... it’s been 20  years now, and to this day, you go to a metal show, whether it’s Metallica, Cannibal Corpse, hell I saw Bon Jovi last week and there was a guy there rocking a Pantera t-shirt. When Cowboys From Hell first came out, did you have any idea what kind of impact you were going to make?

Philip: No, man. No way. No way no way no way. I think especially me, and pessimistic youngster I was, I think I knew our strengths which were definitely our live performance, and definitely Dimebag, but then in general, to this today, the tightest group of musicians I’ve ever personally played with, but we were so hungry back then, but to say that I had any inkling of what this record would mean 20 years down the later, nah. I had no idea.

Examiner: It’s funny, you talk about how tight the band is, I’m hard pressed to think of another metal band, another thrash act that only has one guitarist but still sounds as heavy as Pantera.

Philip: Yeah, that’s another thing. We’ve several times in the past had guitar players come up and jam, and no matter what, we’ve had some super talented people up on stage and we love them all, I gotta figure when you have a guitar player like Dimebag Darrell, stage left every night... Darrell was an incredible player, incredible stage presence, and he had a monster sound. And he’s always had a monster sound. When I first joined the band in 1987 he had that monster sound. So he was always an animal, always a beast on the guitar.

Examiner: I’m looking at the cover of the rerelease, which is the same front as the original Cowboys From Hell cover art. It’s the Wild West saloon, and you’re wilding out in midair, and Rex is just chilling with his bass, Dime is shredding... what’s Vinnie doing? Is he counting money?

Philip: Yes... (laughs). Yes, it’s funny, because people say “Hey is Vince eating a sandwich?” Nah, he’s counting money, or he’s holding a wad of money.  He’s holding a lot of cash.

Examiner: Is there a story behind that cover? Did you guys have a specific vision in mind?

Philip: Well, there was no denying the power of the actual song Cowboys from Hell, we knew that was an anthem, for sure. And we knew it was one of our better songs as far as being memorable, I guess being anthemic, and I guess being those things in one word, but you know what I mean, we knew it was a good song, so I guess we went with that theme at the time. It’s definitely tongue in cheek, I’m not sure who came up with that idea, I remember sitting down and us talking about it, and the only thing I can really remember about it is when we actually did that shoot I actually stood up on a bar stool, there was no bar there, but I leapt off this thing so the photographer could get me high up in the air, and that first leap, I must’ve jumped a good ten times, but that first leap could very well have been the last leap figuring I busted my ass. I wish I could tell you more.

Examiner: Who actually came up with the term ‘Cowboys from Hell’?

Philip: Ooooh that’s a tough one man. To tell the truth, I think... I’m sitting here trying to remember and I’ll tell you what. On the back of Metallica’s first record, you go through the ‘thank you’ list, on the back of that record they thank the crew people, and then they call them the cowboys from hell. I believe I had read that, and I remember also Darrell when he played me that riff from Cowboys from Hell I was like godd*mn, that would be a fantastic title for the song, Cowboys from Hell, it was perfect. But I think I might have mentioned it after seeing it, I will say that I give full props to where I saw it first...

Examiner: And you think that was on the back cover of Kill ‘Em All?

Philip: Yep. Go check for yourself, I guarantee it.  God, I hope I’m right. It was one of them Bay Area bands, I’m thinking of course it was Metallica. Thinking maybe it was Ride the Lightening, but I could swear it’s Kill ‘Em All.  (Examiner’s Note: The Kill ‘Em All liner notes thanks the ‘Dogs of War’)

Examiner. I’m talking to you from New York City today, so talk to me about the Cowboys from Hell tour, do you remember when and where you first played here in New York?

Philip: The first time, I don’t remember the place, but it was... oh you know what, the first time we played in New York was probably the place called L’amour on that same trip in Brooklyn. We played there with Biohazard, before both of us were signed, yeah man those were the first couple of gigs. I remember the first real one was with Suicidal Tendencies and Exodus and previously, I guess I met someone who worked in the New York offices who said “hey Phil, there’s this guy named Lou. He loves your record. The Cowboys From Hell record.” And it ended up being Lou from Sick Of It All, Lou and Pete Koller, so there were like some of the first people who would come meet up with us, and that day of the show Lou and Pete from Sick Of It All, and others... New York is always just the most honest and nice people, and the coolest motherf*ckers man, you got me going down memory lane now, man.  But yeah, Lou and Pete Koller took us in, and they just made us more comfortable than we probably should have been, because that was a tough tour man. Playing in front of a mainly Suicidal audience, and no offense to Exodus but Suicidal was the band on that f*cking tour, that was a challenge. And we ended up playing with gigantic chips on our shoulders, because really anything anybody’s ever remembered about Pantera, or knew at all about Pantera was what they sounded like before I was in the band, or what we sounded like a year previous. There was really no business with me doing a record with Pantera yet, but we did it, which is the Power Metal record. So we had this f*cking chip on our shoulders, and when we played New York City, and the first time you play New York in front of that many people it can be a daunting task. But we came out and I swear to you, right dead center of the f*cking pit, pardon my language, you see the Koller brothers going absolutely berserk man, so they got that f*cking pit going down right off the bat, and that always helps. When it’s that violent, you can feed off that, man.

Examiner: They say hindsight’s always 20/20, I think Dave Mustaine is pretty fond of that quote. Looking back, as the singer, and in your current role now for Housecore as a producer, are there any changes you’d want to make to the Cowboys record, again, from that producer point of view?

Philip: If there were such a chance, you gotta think man, heavy metal production was in a really odd place back in 1988, 89 when we actually recorded the record. Either you got good production or you got sh*t production, straight up. It was a hit or miss thing, and honestly, heavy metal production, once again I gotta turn to Metallica to say they were the first ones to really bring that bite to the f*cking guitars, so they really upped the game. But I also have to say this. Dimebag Darrell had known James Hetfield, and Lars, and all those guys a long time, even before I’d met them. I was still living in New Orleans, and Dimebag would tell me stories about them coming down and playing and Darrell said, he told me he taught James many, many scales, and they taught us a lot about sound, the sound actually coming out of the amps, so you know Metallica got that ripping sound, but like I said when I joined the band in 1987, when you were standing in the loop with Dimebag, that f*cking guitar sound was shredding. But to get that sound from one room to the next room, and onto tape, no Protools, no tricks and whistles back in the day, just pure organic tracking, it’s like that was a trick. So it’s funny, Dimebag has this monster sound, we bring in Terry Date for production and Vinnie Paul’s pretty damn good behind that production and behind that mixing board as well. So you know, the Cowboys From Hell record to me is a step as far as our sound goes, but absolutely not the finished product. So for me it was the high end on the record, for me it’s a pretty biting record, especially once Cowboys from Hell drops, and kicks in, it’s got a little bit too much high end for me.

Examiner: That’s the only critical change you’d make? Otherwise you’re still happy with the record 20 years later?

Philip: Well, you know I could pick it to shreds, but why pick it to shreds? It really laid a heavy duty foundation for what was to come as far as sounds in heavy metal. I’ve said this before but I mean it with all my heart. Cowboys From Hell was a great launch pad for the Pantera sound, but I don’t really think our sound or style really culminated until Vulgar Display of Power. But like I said, Cowboys was a good launch pad when it came out,  but not the complete genuine article.

Examiner: So I got a couple of questions not necessarily Cowboys From Hell related, but I gotta run them by you.

Philip: What the hell, go for it, whatever

Examiner: A couple of weeks ago was Dimefest 2010, and the whole Internet was excited because they were saying that you and Rita were cool again, and you were going to make an appearance, but then you got sick... I gotta ask if you can clear up what happened there.

Philip: Rita and I... it’s been well over a year now, maybe two almost three years since we’ve been cool. I don’t think that’s anything that either one of us are going to go out and boast or brag about or anything like that, it’s just between us and that’s fine. But the thing about Dimefest was... I’ll tell you what man.  I went to LA, I did That Metal Show, I did a bunch of press, and you gotta understand, I’m down in Louisiana. And I left Louisiana and it was a good 87 degrees. I got to LA, and it was uncharacteristically rainy, and there was this chill in the air, and we flew back man, and the next thing you know, this motherf*cker, ME, of all people, who never gets f*cking sick to save their life, all of a sudden it’s like motherf*cker man, it got me. It got me, this strain of pneumonia that just killed the old chest, you know? Real hard to breathe, real annoying. Yeah, I got sick man, so to tell you the truth, I went to see the Saints and the Steelers on Halloween night, that’s the first time I’ve been out of this f*cking house and the last time I’ve been out of this f*cking house. I’m still feeling it, I’m getting over it.

Examiner: Well it’s good to hear you’re feeling better, but can fans hope that at Dimefest 2011, you’ll be up there singing?

Philip: Well, it depends. It depends on where I’m at in 2011... you know, any festival or any tribute to my guitar player I respect it, I understand it, I get it. But if I’m gonna be there... maybe it would only be fitting if the other two be there as well.  That make sense to you?

Examiner: To me? One hundred percent. But I can only hope that Rex and Vinnie see it the same way.

Philip: You got it.

 

The Cowboys From Hell Ultimate Edition Box Set can be bought at Amazon via this link. Click here for part two of this deeply insightful interview for Philip's thoughts on Pantera fans, singing against Dimebag's monstrous guitar, and his beloved New Orleans Saints, and follow future interviews, reviews, and more by subscribing at the top of this page, or follow me at twitter.com/NYROCKEXAMINER.  NFL fans should also check out New Orleans Saints Examiner Danny Cox for Philip's extended thoughts on the Saints this year by clicking here.