On Friday July 11th, 2009, Ireland passed the Defamation Bill by one vote. One of the aspects of this bill would make it illegal to criticize religion… any religion under penalty of fines up to 25,000 Euros. That is the equivalent to nearly $35,000.
When I first heard this story on the internets, I was certain that it was a false story. I read the story, googled it, checked out legitimate Ireland news sites, and double checked more Ireland news sites. The story checks out. It seems that the Blasphemy Clause of the Defamation Bill was challenged in the legislature by an amendment which would delete such a clause. The amendment to delete the clause initially passed by one vote, but a request was made for a “walk-through vote.” During that time two more Senators came in and voted against the amendment to delete the clause. This meant that the clause would stay in the bill. The bill then passed by the same margin.
Here is an excerpt from the Blasphemy Clause:
Section 36
(1) A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €100,000. [Amended to €25,000]
(2) For the purposes of this section, a person publishes or utters blasphemous matter if (a) he or she publishes or utters matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion, and (b) he or she intends, by the publication or utterance of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage.
This part of the bill makes it illegal to criticize any religion either verbally or in writing. Saying anything in which a “substantial number” of followers might find offensive would now be a crime in the Ireland. But the bill goes even further. Here is another excerpt:
Section 37
(1) Where a person is convicted of an offence under section 36, the court may issue a warrant (a) authorising any member of the Garda Siochana to enter (if necessary by the use of reasonable force) at all reasonable times any premises (including a dwelling) at which he or she has reasonable grounds for believing that copies of the statement to which the offence related are to be found, and to search those premises and seize and remove all copies of the statement found therein, (b) directing the seizure and removal by any member of the Garda Siochana of all copies of the statement to which the offence related that are in the possession of any person, specifying the manner in which copies so seized and removed shall be detained and stored by the Garda Siochana.
The Garda Siochana is the Irish police who can now (under this law) break into people’s homes and confiscate copies of any book which might be critical of any religion. I keep trying to point out that any religious criticism is a crime, because many Christians are critical of differing religions. Atheists are not the only ones being targeted here. Simply claiming that the Pope is not infallible might be considered blasphemous to many Catholics. Claiming that the prophet Joseph Smith was not really visited by angels and given magic golden plates would be blasphemous to Mormons. Mentioning the prophet Mohammad without adding the phrase “peace be upon him” would be considered blasphemous to Muslims. And claiming that Scientology is a sham and that Tom Cruise is crazy would obviously be blasphemous to Scientologists.
What if a Christian claimed that if someone was not saved through Jesus Christ, he or she would spend eternity in Hell? An argument could be made that such a statement and even the Bible itself might be considered blasphemous to other religions. In fact, most religious are blasphemous to other religions. Maybe the Irish police will fine everyone.
Comments
My utter Blasphemy is this: I was raised a Jehovah's Witness and left them because they are a cult run by Watchtower leaders who are predatory psychopaths.
Yours truly,Danny Haszard Bangor Maine USA
(Come & get me thought police)
Jehovah’s Witnesses beliefs and practices are harmless at a distance.... until you or your loved one gets tangled up and then burned out from the whole apocalyptic compulsive mindset.
Do a web search: Jehovah Witness watchtower read the stories
Would this also mean then that when others blast the belief systems of agnostics and atheists, there's equal consideration?
Ireland had better get ready to look like Florida, the world capital of "religious" scams and fraud.
Always respect people never respect ideas! Artificially fencing off any idea from criticism is the beginning of totalitarianism! There is no difference between critisizing a religion from critizising a political party. I have a right to say communism is childish pseudo-sociology, and I do! I should also have the right to say all religion is deluded nonsense.
1) Mohammed was a genocidal barbarian and pedophile who raped 9 year old girls!
2) The concept of original sin and guilt over sexuality in christianity is a purely destructive remnant of Apostle Pauls psychological problems relating to his repressed homosexuality!
3) Hinduism is at its core the excuse for a horribly inequitable society propogated through the caste system!
4) Buddhism is nothing but a set of clever mental parlour tricks to teach your brain to drug itself!
5) Judaism with the concept of "chosen people" has a racist bigotry at its core!
Come and get me Paddy cops!!!
I guess I won`t be vacationing in Ireland anytime soon.
Are they following the UN's recent mandate on this?
Although the UN human rights mandate (against insulting religion) was mainly directed at critics of islam and proposed by the most strongly theocratically islamic countries.
I do have to say, there's an enormous amount of religion insulting that goes on back and forth in the irish chatrooms on the internet between protestants and catholics.
I'm thinking this is just the irish gov't's way of covering budget deficits in this economic crisis.
To Brent, I should be able to say your an educated illiterate.
ok Izzy, so I misspelled criticizing, but I guess its something else...
Of all the crazy laws I've heard, I think this one puts the icing on the cake. I would like to see a total of fines paid. At least they know how to make money.
" utters matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion",Isn't this what is going on in the Middle East, Different Religions finding other Religions insulting to them?
Brent expressed my feeling exactly. However I would say Buddhism is the most benign of all belief system's They don't try and convert anyone. I appreciate That.
Hi Kevin, I actually agree with you about Buddhism, figureing out how to create the effect of self administering antidepressants to ones own brain is not necessarily a bad thing, SSRIs are expensive and have nasty side effects! I just wanted to be inclusive to make a general point. Unlike the other religions Buddhism actually contains some interesting philosophy, though to be fair the belief that there is no such thing as objective reality is kind of sad and depressing as well as silly. Without objective reality how can there be such a thing as "learning" is the obvious question that buddhists can't answer...
How very sad. If there ever was free speech in Ireland, it's as dead as a doornail now.
Quite right about how this could, quite frankly, turn into a gigantic clusterfuck. I suppose the Irish government should have spent a lot more time defining what criticism actually means. Maybe then they could have predicted how this ruling can - and most probably will - result in massive chaos and confusion.
Come on guys this is not new the Catholic Church is being attacked every day by the media, and nothing is done.
Jehovahs Witnesses and freedom of speech.
They will extol and preach *God's Kingdom* and this sounds attractive,what they hide from you is their Watchtower society version that Jesus has already had his second coming in 1914 and is working *invisibly* through them.
They have won 37 of their 46 US Supreme court cases assuring us all of freedom of speech and assembly and equal protection under the law.
The sad irony is that the Watchtower Society *daily* abuses the human rights of thousands of its members. It denies current members the right of free speech by forbidding them to speak to former members, even close family members.
And it denies former members their right of freedom of worship by refusing to allow them to leave the religion with dignity, should they come to disagree with Watchtower's practices or doctrines.
As a Discordian, I find that law highly offensive.
Ouch. That's a god [DERNED] shame (sorry, apparently the comment box doesn't like freedom of speech either). I don't live in Ireland, but if I did, I'd be [TICK]ed right about now. I have a personal right to criticize [FLIPP]ing idiots who want to believe the claims of an outdated and mistranslated book with no scientific evidence supporting its ludicrous ideas.
I find what the bible says about people more "blasphemous" than anything a religious critic could say.
Slay homosexuals?
Check.
Stone your child for straying from the faith?
Check.
Be a good slave and serve your master like a God?
Check.
Kill retarded children?
Check.
What about all the lovely things that God has done, as according to Christian scripture?
Kill Egyptian children?
Check.
Flood the world and drown sinners?
Check.
Send people to a lake of fire for not blindly accepting a Jew who got executed as their heavenly savior?
Check.
I don't know about you, but religion sounds like it
Funny, it would appear to me that this law itself is demeaning religion by reducing freedom and thus the sentators should all be fined. This is less about religious 'protection' than raising ridiculously easy money for the gov', an insult to any of us.
Why the uproar over churches being protected from attacks? They're just entitled to the same rights other groups enjoy. Why should it be ok to mock, criticize, and persecute Christians and especially Catholics, while homosexuals, feminists, Blacks, Muslims, atheists, etc. are shielded from defamation? It's a double standard. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Yes, Helene, you are correct. But remember, the world we live in is such that you cannot blaspheme the beliefs of gays (that's hate speech), but you can blashpheme the beliefs of the religious. You cannot say 'God' in school, but you can have a major junior high gay-les-transv event in Boston. Your respectful, quiet view, Helene, and those like it, are, unfortunately, shouted down by the likes of these. But it is changing. Hang in there. You see, what they're (govt's) very worried about now is that God-fearing citizens like yourself are more and more 'going off the grid' (i.e. not paying taxes, or, at the least, bartering more and more to avoid taxes). A quiet bunch, they won't continue to pay for governments that don't respect their views. It is happening. Keep an eye on it. Take a look at how Obama is coming around. Last thing he wants to do is alienate more God-fearing TAX PAYERS like me when the financials are falling apart...
While I agree that such legislation is troubling, when I remembered the fighting between the Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland in the last several decades, it no longer surprised me that Irish lawmakers would approve such legislation.
There is a bigger story here, this could bring about the One World Religion. All religions are critical of other religions. This may sound good, but could very well be the end of individual beliefs. Be careful of what you ask for, it could turn out different than what you imagined.
Tom, stop right there.
"Blaspheming the beliefs of gay people"
Well, gays don't have a set of common beliefs because THEY'RE NOT A RELIGION. They're gay. The only thing they all have in common is that they're attracted to people of the same sex. Hating that is just illogical. But hating the idea that their are people who want to remove theories from being taught in school that have gone through rigorous scientific testing and been proven valid in favor of some religious story is stupid.
As for not being allowed to say "God" in school, last time I checked, being a high school student and all that, many of my teachers are open about their religious beliefs and express them regularly and aren't fired at all. There are multiple Christian clubs at my school as well, and one that champions Gay and lesbian rights that anyone can join. There's no Atheist or free thought club though. No Buddhist club either for those who don't dig God but dig spirtual self-discipline and enlightenment
"Only a fool says in his heart there is no God". (Psalm 14:1).
Should atheism be considered a form of religion? Belief that there is no god? Then everybody mentioning god offends them, thus should be fined.
Great law this is...
"the world we live in is such that you cannot blaspheme the beliefs of gays (that's hate speech), but you can blashpheme the beliefs of the religious."
Tom, this is a strawman argument. People may criticize you for anything you say. That doesn't mean that the government will come down on you for saying it -except now in Ireland if it's critical of religion. There are no laws that penalize you for saying things that are politically incorrect; at least not in the country I live in. Even if you say something libelous, it's not the government that sues you; it's whoever you libeled.
Sorry Tom, I forgot to add:
Even hate speech is considered protected by your 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech. The only exceptions, I believe, are the yelling "fire" in a crowded room scenario or a direct incitement to violence.
So christians who say god had a son, which is blasphemous to islam, are all to be fined? This is the end of Ireland as we know it! LOL!
This is an embarrassment to or country. There was an outcry in the media about this - it's so poorly defined. The excuse that was used was that the law had to be passed or the constitution would have to be amended - the Irish constitution was basically written by the Archbishop of Dublin and Eamon de Valera. It's a national disgrace. I just finished reading 'God is not Great' by Christopher Hitchens. I suppose this ould now be banned in Ireland because he certainly insults enough religions. Just when I thought we had left all that medieval bull behind.
With blasphemy now against the law, what will us poor auld Irish do with all that spare time?
Well with blasphemy now against the law, what are we Irish going to do with all that spare time?
Before the book burning begins in earnest, I say we all send emails with the subject line "God, you're stupid".
Sorry, that should have been,
Before the book burning begins in earnest, I say we all send emails with the subject line "God, you're stupid" to the Irish legislature.
"Come on guys this is not new the Catholic Church is being attacked every day by the media, and nothing is done."
That's because nothing is supposed to be "done" about it Dribblehead, that's why it's known as 'freedom of expression' and 'freedom of (and from) religion'.
Ah jaysus-
there should be laws to protect all people from hate, but you have had tousands of years to prove there is some GOD, a master of the universe but you cannot. Absolutely valid to criticize a church built on myth, fantasy and wrathful wishful thinking- especially when it prohibits or condemns peole based on smelly, badly translated historical HUMAN whims.
All religion is fair game 'cos it's still a load of trumped up rubbish that still has way too much power- People, real living people are deserving of protection because we exist.
Wait a moment! They'll have to expunge ALL of the passages in holy literature that blaspheme other religions! Who will they FINE for those blasphemous remarks?--Jehova? Brilliant forethought from these lawmakers. Inebriated, perhaps?
And I use to be so proud of Ireland.
Smart enough to reject the EU but too stupid to realize that freedom of speech is priceless. Aren't most religious martyrs killed because they are outspoken? If this law aimed to protect religion it will have the opposite effect.
blasphemy? What does that mean? Protecting those who totured thousands of children?
Nice racist and ignorant comments about ireland people. Just as i didnt judge all americans for having george bush as a president dont judge us for this. we may drink a lot in this country, similar to the UK and less then many other countries, we can hold our drink and our politicians are not 'inebriated'. Moron.
Anyway, as for this bill, it is clearly ridiculous. So much so it seems to have bypassed public debate. It was in the constitution from ages ago and this bill just firms it up, so it is not a new thing they have dreamt up. I bet there are hundreds of absurd laws still in existance in america. I can guarantee you this law will never be used for anything other than extreme incitment to hate cases, otherwise i for one and the majority of people in this country would gleefully take to the streets in protest. In fact the whole thing is so laughable i would love to get done for it myself. So -dont overreact people. Calm down.You're still the world leaders in fundamental stupidity
I'm not sure if I despair more about the (holy jumping Jesus) passing of the legislation (which will be completely ignored of course) or the instant characterization of the Irish as stupid. This legislation was brought by a creaky old tosser who will be retired soon, and passed because of party-political cronyism. It will be politely ignored by right-thinking people here in Ireland, who have a very healthy disrespect of people who profess a religious leaning.
The timing of the legislation, weeks after the publication of a report into systematic, endemic institutionalized rape, murder and torture of children (their crime was being poor) is incomprehensible.
Don't judge the Irish on the actions of the *£%* who brought this legislation to the houses of parliament.
When will the insanity called religion end?
Hey Jack. The fool may say in his heart there is no God, but the wise man says it out loud.
As far as being an Irish American...I'm glad I have the American part attached. Go drink some more, maybe you'll come up with some more stupid laws. What a joke!
Tom,
You talk about "going off the grid" and not paying taxes.. well are you prepared to do your own road paving in your area? How about dealing with fires, medical emergencies or law enforcement? Taxes pay for many things that you seem to be taking for granted. As for Obama and his administration - he doesn't need to worry about alienating you, the truth is he never had you, and if you decide to not pay your taxes because you disagree with his policies.. well that's a law enforcement issue. Faced with a prospect of jail.. I'm sure you'd change your mind and abide the law by paying your share of taxes.
I guess by this law members of the recent commission accusing Catholic priests and brothers AND NUNS of sexual abuse should all be arrested and their report confiscated. Good points about Catholics criticizing other religions or vice versa. What a stupid law. I guess me Irish ancestors who rose up and cursed the Church of England for its despicable deeds should all be arrested.
Brilliant! Now someone needs to profess that the Christian bible blasphemes their religious beliefs and demand that the Garda confiscate all bibles - with force, if necessary - as evidence of the crime.
Jesus was gay (not that being gay is wrong), Joseph Smith was a liar, Mohammad was a child rapist(that’s two in one), the pope was a Nazi, Tom Cruise IS crazy, and Mary was a whore.
Wow, that could have cost me $245,000, glad I’m not in Ireland right now.
rELIGION IS THE GREATEST BLASPHEMY OF ALL.
They can't just "break into people's homes." The court needs to issue a warrant first, which is no different from how we here in the states "break into people's homes" when a judge finds it appropriate to do so.
Don't rabble-rouse.
"authorising any member of the Garda Siochana to enter (if necessary by the use of reasonable force)"
Seeing as how it would be hard to disprove/prove something that is said, chances are this decision will rest on weather or not the judge is having a good or bad day.
Now to enjoy some of the freedom that comes along with putting up with the "problematic" American political system... Jesus must have been a horrible carpenter, Mohamed was a shrooming-stoner, Tom Cruse...LOL@that, Mormons have the collective intelligence of a mosquito.
I would like to advise any one with half a brain left in Ireland, GTFO, RTFM. As history dictates when countries go the religious route bad things happen. Such as, but not limited to: holocaust, mass graves, extermination, intolerance, astounding amounts self-empowered supremists going around bullying those with a difference of opinion, etc etc etc.
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