What's your Purpose?
Christians ask this of atheists all the time, “What would you rather believe that you were created with a divine purpose in life or that you are just a product of random chance?” The idea is to create the false dichotomy that if one were created with a divine purpose, then one is special and magical while if someone doesn’t believe in a god (the Christian God in particular) then one must believe that they were just a product of random chance with no purpose at all and are therefore not special and have no value.
Let’s start with the Christian view of divine purpose first. What does it mean to have divine purpose? It seems to mean that the Christian God created you with a very particular plan in mind. And while you have free will (according to the Christian doctrine) I don’t think you can really go against God’s divine plan. How stupid a plan would it be if you can just do whatever you want? Think about it this way, we live in an interconnected society. So if God has a divine plan for you and everyone else, it would stand to reason that his plan for them is at least in part dependant on his plan for you. So if you would or could go against God’s divine plan, then you would really be messing up God’s divine plan for everyone else too. That basically means that if God were to have a divine plan, it would have to be carried out one hundred percent by everyone. That means no free will when it comes to following God’s divine plan.
If we were to really believe that we were all born with a divine plan and a divine purpose, then we would basically be slaves. So I ask, “What would you rather believe that you were created as a divine slave with no freedom and thus no worth or that you are a product of natural selection capable of choosing your own plan and purpose in life as an intelligent being in your own right?”
That brings me to the second part of the false dichotomy. Do atheists believe we are a product of random chance with no purpose in life? Of course not and while I can’t speak for all atheists because all atheism really means is a lack of belief in a deity, I can speak for the atheists who subscribe to a humanistic worldview. Most atheists in the greater atheistic community, whether they consider themselves Humanists or not still subscribe to a humanistic worldview. Of those atheists, very few would consider life without God to be random chance. This claim is basically a strawman of the science of evolution.
Some Christians who are not educated about the evolutionary process seem to think that evolution is about random chance. The fact is that evolution is brought about by a process called Natural Selection. Natural Selection is definitely not random. While random mutations occur, it is the mutations that are more adaptable to change which survive and are therefore passed on.
Finally, let’s talk about purpose. The idea that either you were created with one particular purpose in mind or no purpose whatsoever is just ridiculous. One of my favorite philosophers once said, “The purpose of life is a life of purpose.” – Ludwig Wittgenstein. This is in a sense an existential moment for people. We can live the life of a slave to an imaginary Lord and Master or we can find our own meaning and purpose in life.
We can choose the quick and easy path and do what others in our religion tell us God wants us to do, or we can learn and grow as people and find our own path and purpose. I see it as an issue of freedom. Back in the day, children (scratch that) young boys were expected to follow in their father’s footsteps. If your father’s purpose in society was a blacksmith, then your purpose would be to be a blacksmith. But today, we can be whatever we wish to be regardless of the occupation of our parents. We are free to create our own purpose in society and in life. Will you choose to limit your own purpose in life to that of a slave to an imaginary God, or will you choose to find your own purpose or purposes (no need to just choose one)?
Atheism 101 Articles:
Atheism 101: What is the difference between atheism and agnosticism?
Atheism 101: Is there moral grounding without God?
Atheism 101: The Purpose of Life
Atheism 101: Is the Bible the inspired word of God?
Atheism 101: The anti-intellectualism of religion
Atheism 101: Why has Christianity demonized nudity, sex and sexuality?
Atheism 101: Does it take more faith to be an atheist?
Atheism 101: What came before the Universe?
Atheism 101: How to respond to the ex-atheist
Comments
Nice straw man you created to knock down. The actual position is if there is no creator, and this is just an evolution only world/universe, then ultimately there is no purpose, no matter how you try and justify it. If life arose by time+chance, there is no purpose, no reason, it just happened by "law of averages", and it will eventually no longer be, but the universe will continue along till it to dies, indifferent to us being here or not i.e. our lives in your worldview have no purpose other than some delusion you Atheists create because you are too weak to face the reality of your position.
But you did argue well against your strawman.
Where is my strawman exactly? It seems like you just created one? I actually described your actual position as you yourself have laid it out. Then I pointed out that it wasn't actually the atheist position (as you claim it to be, thus the strawman) and I refuted it. Do you even know what the definition of a strawman is? Duh!
To Nigel(posted July 22, 9:46 PM). Our individual lives are short in comparison with the universe, and our individual purpose is exists as long as our life lasts. In terms of your purpose, if you believe your purpose is to worship and praise a god, then when you die and there is no after-life, you have wasted your one chance at life for an imaginary being and a chance of after-life.
But let's say there is a god, what exactly is your purpose? To be a slave to that god for eternity? Atheists are anything but weak. Many of us have struggled with religious indoctrination and have found the journey painful, but liberating. We don't rely on a sugar-daddy in the sky who will forgive us when we stuff up, we are responsible for our own actions. Perhaps it is the theists who are too weak to face the reality of your position without a crutch (god).
Your opening "What would you rather believe that you were created with a divine purpose in life or that you are just a product of random chance?”
My position "..if there is no creator, and this is just an evolution only world/universe then ultimately there is no purpose.."
Nothing about divine purpose in what I said, it is about the viability of concluding purpose from an impersonal and indifferent universe and showing how when Atheists claim some purpose like "purpose of life is a life of purpose" is a delusion and illogical with what you state is reality.
Please, have another try at it?
Angie,
Show how you get to purpose, logically? Seriously, be an Atheist, if you must, but please at least be intellectually honest.
Secondly, being responsible for your own choices and actions is a biblical proposition with the most fundamental being to either believe God or not.
Fianlly, I can't find the term "sugar-daddy in the sky" in any translations of the Judeo-Christian bible, or even any texts that indicate God's character to be as such. Maybe you can point some out.
Nigel, you brought up a good point. Ultimately there seems to be no purpose in life, but we can make it our purpose to better the world for future generations. each of us personally can make a difference in a few peoples lives, and I believe with the butterfly affect, many people in future generations may benefit from what we have left behind. For me, that purpose is to be positive and happy, and to help my friends and family have more positive experiences in their lives. Why does there have to be an ultimate reason life exists? Can't we just live our lives and set our own purposes and goals to reach? Thankfully, without the thought police (god is listening to each and every one of our thoughts), I am free to choose the purpose I wish, within the bounds that society will allow me.
I find it laughable that you would ask for references to the sugar-daddy in the sky. While the term is not used, it means the same as what is preached at the pulpit, which by the way isn't always biblical.
Nigel, can I ask you what you believe your ultimate purpose is?
Nigel, can it really be true that you are so narcissistic that you actually think that I wrote this entire article just for you? You are so vein you think this article is about you, lol. No Nigel that is not a strawman. Just because YOU didn't claim belief in a "divine purpose" doesn't mean that no one else has.
Moving forward, you have then created the very strawman that I refuted in this article. Evolution is not about "random chance." While random chance occurs in evolution, there is a process of Natural Selection which is definitely not random.
Then you strawman again claiming no purpose. I have multiple purposes in my life which I have created and defined. That is the point Nigel. We are free to create our own purpose in life. Next time, try reading more than just the title of the article it really makes you look stupid.
The purpose that we have is the one that drives every other function of the universe. To carry on. In our case, to breed and continue the species. It's the primary hormonal drive. Survival and mating.
Nigel is partially correct at least. There is "ultimately no purpose" or "ultimate purpose" because purpose is the product of a sentient mind and there is no evidence that the ultimate reality of the universe involves sentience.
"If life arose by time+chance, there is no purpose, no reason." This is not true. Life more accurately arose through time and successive generations of selection. Chance really is not important--it's just the stochastic influence of nature. Selection could still work with non-random items to select from.
"Show how you get to purpose, logically?" Purpose is the product of a sentient mind, but it need not be logical. There is nothing logical about love, art, experiencing the world, or the feeling of accomplishment when reaching goals. We are finite, irrational beings who will occupy nothing more than the tiniest speck of space-time. And that is enough. Is a weekend spend enjoying the company of your family "meaningless" because it must end?
It is the theist who is delusional. They are unable to accept their own mortality and their finite span of existence. They create an elaborate delusion of grandeur where their very existence is somehow connected to the very force behind the entire universe. It is a common crutch used to deal with the finality and inevitability of death.
Example: "life...will eventually no longer be, but the universe will continue along till it [too] dies, indifferent to us being here or not."
"Atheists claim some purpose like "purpose of life is a life of purpose" is a delusion and illogical with what you state is reality."
Purpose requires nothing more than a sentient mind so we are entirely equipped to create our own purpose. It is not a delusion or inconsistent with metaphysical naturalism. Your real claim is that purpose doesn't exist unless it is universal in scope and associated with an eternal intelligence. That is false. Your objections are nothing more than existential insecuri
Shane,
You said "Selection could still work with non-random items to select from."
Can you elaborate? Without a God, how can the 'items to select from' be anything but random?
This is not a straw man argument but one I've heard used by theists in debates quite often. The truth is, this is an argument about words, as almost all theological arguments are.
Purpose is a word and it means many different things to many different people. We all have purpose and can all find meaning but the truth is it doesnt matter if there is some ultimate purpose because we all live our lives in the same way no matter what we claim to believe or not believe. This is because humans are not a blank slate but come hard wired. We have impulses that drive us to work together as a society, have and protect children, and seek knowledge about the world around us. These are the things that give us purpose.
Angie - sure you can live your life that way, it's just not a logical conclusion of the starting point.
Purpose of a Christian life is to reconcile to God by always striving to live our lives according to His will, not ours.
Staks - I did not say evolution was random. You are very dishonest for an "intellectual". You don't argue the purpose of no life on Saturn, so why argue purpose of life on earth? Instead of just admitting you are nothing more than a cog in a "chaotic machine"
Shane - you say there is nothing logical about love, art, etc. The materialist would say otherwise but it is instructive in showing that it is nearly impossible to live life within the results of an Atheistic worldview. The Christian system is a much better answer and more reflective of what we experience around us and the "human condition".
Nigel, you said, "If life arose by time+chance, there is no purpose, no reason." Chance and random are synonyms, so yes you did say that life was evolution was random.
Second, "You don't argue the purpose of no life on Saturn." That is just a retarded statement. So I don't know what to say about that.
"so why argue purpose of life on earth?" I didn't. Nor would I. I am arguing that human beings create our own purpose. Again, you would know that if you actually read what I wrote, but you didn't. Instead you saw the title and then created a strawman of what you think I must have written based on your misconception of atheism and then took the opportunity to subtlety preach Christianity. So weak.
Gee Staks you don't even know your own position do you? There is a difference between abiogenesis and evolution.
Typing slowly for you - there was no purpose to abiogenesis, it just happened (according to your theory) and hence you can not arrive logically at purpose from non-purpose, adding in evolution and the fact that we ended up being able to consider our own existence is of no consequence.
Which brings us back to the original point, being that your "Christians ask athiests this all time" remark was a misrepresentation of the problem with the worldview behind Atheism and purpose.
So this Christian asks you, Saks "how do you arrive at the conclusion of purpose of life, that based on your worldview, arose from a universe that is clearly without purpose?" - there is no "false dichotomy".
In response to Nigel:
The theory of evolution makes no assumptions about the origin of life. It is merely the result of extensive study of evidence. To suggest that evolution implies purpose to the creation of life is simply wrong.
It would be like saying that the theory of gravity implies that the purpose of objects is for them to always head towards other objects. But really, it just explains what we see when we study the movement of these objects.
Sorry Nigel, i reread your last comment and realized that you were saying something different.
I enjoyed reading this column, even though I'm not a full-blown (no double entendre intended) atheist, but a fellow-traveling agnostic. If you send me your email address, I have some additional comments.
All the best,
Bill
alec879@hotmail.com
“The purpose of life is a life of purpose.”
Nice!
We are all aware of the lords miracles! We are sinned against and must be thought do to the right things. There are many oppotunities out here we take for granted the goverment is corrupt but the Bible says we must obey the rules man make, as we all know the world is the way it is because of these "man made desicions" Money is on top of everything & God didn't create us to live a life revolving money and self centered money is all our government cares about. The "GOVERMENT" made this tough ecenomic times happen by Stealing from everyone. For every one good thing "man" made happen, theres a all the corruption that follows. I detest the day BUSH became president he drove us into this he knew and was aware of all things happening I wish hope and pray the lord doesn't forgive such a man "SELFISH". He thinks he's GOD! Look into the machines he paid to get built so he can win the election and the oil company he owns outside the US. he made us rely on oil instead of going green.
Great article. You lead from one thought to the next very nicely. Good job! People's lack of understanding of evolution is truly mind boggling, and since they don't understand it, it's hard to for them see the logic in it. There are some fabulous books on there about natural selection. Oh, would I love for people who don't understand evolution to read them!
I wanted to let you know that there is nothing in the bible that proves that the big bang did not happen. But the main thing that is taken a way from it is that something had to have created/formed the big bang or the earth. Some kind of divine being, like God. The big bang could have happend but the question is how it occured ...going back to something divine must have caused it.
Marie, please see my Atheist 101 article "What came before the Universe?" There is a link at the bottom of this article.
I tried to contact you directly, but couldn't find a way. The first time in this article I saw "than" where you should have put "then", I brushed it off as a typo. The second time, I thought "gee, that's weird". The third time, I thought "maybe he really doesn't know the correct usage". The fourth time, I decided to contact you.
Mr. Rosch,
I sit here not really knowing how to respond to your Atheistic views and thoughts. You of course have the choice to believe or not believe in Jesus Christ. I certainly believe you have the knowledge of Biblical truths as you have quoted from the Bible many times. I believe that the New King James version of the Bible is the best interpretation. It is my belief that every word that needed to make it into the scriptures of the Holy Bible which was meant for us to read and study made it's way there. God makes no mistakes! For the answers to the questions we all seek, they will one day be revealed to all. My comments to you are not ones of anger or ill will, but of concern....It is for people like you that I pray the hardest for, and I mean this in the most sincere way.....You are lost in your own knowledge, the knowledge of the world. 1 Corinthians 3:19 (look it up if you seek true knowledge.)I don't apologize for being a follower of Christ. It's rewarding doing God's work.><>
"What would you rather believe that you were created with a divine purpose in life or that you are just a product of random chance?” Hm. If it means to be submissive to a wratheful god for eternity, I'd rather be a product of random chance.
Hi Friend,
Recently I published a post on the purpose of life in my blog. It is interesting to see that some of our ideas match. After all the truth is only one!
AJourneyToTruth.com
That was Sartre's blind spot. He thought that to choose God's purpose was a choice made in bad faith, whereas in actuality God 'gives us' the choice (to choose God's purpose) (Golden Rule type love). Really it comes down to--do you want what is real, or are you satisfied with making it up as you go? I choose 'real' purpose...the sort I evolved the hunger for. We hunger for meaning that exists (that we don't have to make up) or we would not have evolved a hunger for it. www. examiner.com/x-26772-San-Francisco-Apologetics-Examiner~y2010m1d10-The-Hungah-101--Is-Christianity-just-a-crutch
Again Maryann, you didn't actually discuss anything about the article, but simply used it to spam for your article. Doing that once or twice is fun, but when you sit down and make a habit of it, it gets annoying very quickly. Especially when you don't actually address the issues brought up in the article.
"do you want what is real, or are you satisfied with making it up as you go?" The real issue is do you know what is real and if so how? The scientific method is the best way to discern what is real and what is not, but Christians kick that method to the curb and declare their beliefs real with no real evidence.
The reason why God has a plan for our lives is not because we are slaves but because we choose to have a relationship with him and in turn we choose to follow his plan for our lives. God does have a plan for our lives and we can either choose to follow that plan or we can choose to do what we want. That is free choice.
You espouse the view of God creation having purpose rather well, yet you misrepresent it. Yes, his Divine Plan depends on Human help to come to complete fruition. Yet that won't happen because we are free. That does not mean His plan is flawed. It means we are. Our role is expressed by Ring Larder, who said so well: "When the Great Scorekeeper comes to mark against your name, he marks not that you won or lost, but how you played the game." We have our missions; we fail at them dependent on how well others do with theirs in reference to ours or by how well we perform, but in the end it's about whether we stayed the course the best we could. He doesn't expect perfection. He only expects us to strive towards it the best we can.
The purpose of life is a life of purpose...such is a vacuous statement which seems to say a lot yet is actually only circular. It advances knowledge not one whit. We are not slaves to God as we can choose not to follow His will. We have that freedom. When you say that we must learn and do as we go along you are arguing for a randomness which cannot in the long run sustain humanity, let alone any one person. For errors would become great and reinforced over time. Indeed we must all then become little gods ourselves, establishing and living by guidelines only we would know. It is not a satisfactory basis for human development or good morals.
"That does not mean His plan is flawed. It means we are." You stated in a comment to a different article that you did not think humans were inherently flawed and attacked me when I claimed that this was the Christian position. Now you assert the very position I stated as the Christian position as just that. Thank you for proving my point.
If I indeed said such a thing, which I doubt, then I was in error. But I do believe you misrepresent me. Being flawed does not mean being evil, as I have also said elsewhere in our discussions. You are the one equating mere flaws with evil. Please do not put words in my mouth and then try to claim that I am supporting your point. That is intellectually irresponsible.
You claimed that Sin is bad. You claimed that people are born with Original Sin. Therefore, people are born originally bad. That is simple logic.
I cannot help but notice that you seem to only respond to my posts where you think you have the upper hand.
I only respond to posts that I feel relevant to respond to give my limited time.
No, they are born flawed. Big difference. Your logic is the flaw here.
You respond to an awful lot of posts for having such limited time. You appear to ignore select ones, my friend.
Stephen J. Gould makes a very excellent argument for the idea of 'random occurrence' in Dinosaur in a Haystack. The fact, if one really understands evolution is that humans, like all other beings (plants, fish, mammals, etc) are an utterly random occurrence that, given the exact set of circumstances that brought the earth to its current point, would NOT recur.
Ironically, I think you point out support for what is normally considered a very barbaric belief... namely the belief in hell. You state "So if God has a divine plan for you and everyone else, it would stand to reason that his plan for them is at least in part dependant on his plan for you. So if you would or could go against God’s divine plan, then you would really be messing up God’s divine plan for everyone else too." Again, ironically, you create a false dichotomy in which you would have us think there are only two options in considering God's "divine plan."
There's yet another point: Their enrire false dychotomy is based on wishful thinking.
The fact that you PREFER to believe that some deity made you and has special plans for you doesn't make it so.
In one breath, you encourage your readers to find (effectively create) their own purpose. In the next, you chastise an entire religion (Christianity) for doing just that.
If you truly believe “the purpose of life is a life of purpose”, then you should be applauding Christians for assigning purpose to their lives, not berating them for finding meaning in something you deem imaginary and undesirable.
If this is truly one of the pillars of your worldview, I highly recommend you reconsider its smug and contradictory nature.
Taking on some cookie cutter purpose based on an ancient book is hardly a purpose.
Our only real purpose in life is to reproduce.
GOD IS
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