As Election Day 2010 approaches, there is much to be found in the media about the National Rifle Association and its political grades and endorsements. There's another, albeit smaller organization out there working hard to bring us candidate evaluations that gun activists are well aware of, Gun Owners of America, designated "The only no-compromise gun lobby in Washington" by Rep. Ron Paul.
Because GOA takes a somewhat different approach that can yield different performance assessments, tensions sometimes arise between its supporters and NRA's, along with often acrimonious, even bitter debate. And because this election has such potential to impact gun owners, I thought it important to learn not just about GOA and the man who is the driving force behind it, but to seek his assessment of some of the criticism being promoted in some quarters.
As such, you'll find some of the questions come across as adversarial. A friend and advisor even scolded me a bit when I showed them to him, telling me he wouldn't be surprised if my interview request were denied. Having followed GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt's efforts for many years, including corresponding with the man and finally having had the privilege of meeting him in person last April at both the Second Amendment March and the Restore the Constitution rally, I had faith that this is a man of principle and courage who would not retreat from speaking his mind.
Here's our Q&A, conducted via email:
DC: Give us a brief history of GOA, and how you came to run it. What’s your background?
LP: GOA was founded in 1975 by then California state senator H.L. Richardson. I came on shortly after GOA was founded, having worked in a number of conservative policy organizations.
DC: Critics say the GOA rating system considers more than just gun votes, so that rather than being “single issue” like NRA, you’re more appropriately a CONSERVATIVE lobbying organization instead of exclusively a “GUN” lobbying group. Your response?
LP: Consider the dozens of so-called Blue Dogs who were endorsed by the NRA this year. Only three of them got an A or A- from GOA. The NRA obviously did not count the four votes on overturning the ban on guns in national parks, one of which also involved an effort to greatly expand national parkland, thus eliminating hunting and the use of self-defense firearms on those lands.
The NRA also did not seem to score the anti-gun provisions remaining in Obamacare. GOA also rated the vote on the DISCLOSE Act which was McCain-Feingold on steroids. The NRA and GOA went to the Supreme Court seeking to overturn McCain-Feingold, so obviously the NRA sees the danger to the Second Amendment in gagging political speech. Unfortunately, the NRA did not take a position on the DISCLOSE Act. Attempts to stifle the political speech of Second Amendment organizations is without question an attack on your gun rights … we ARE a single-issue group, we just recognize that our enemies are attacking us on multiple fronts.
DC: You consistently rate Ron Paul as an A+, yet he voted against the Protection in Lawful Commerce Act, citing his concerns over federalization of tort reform. Did GOA take a similar position? If so, did you score votes for the bill against politicians? If not, did Paul pay a price in your ratings?
LP: First of all, a Congressman can only get an A+ if they have been a leader on Second Amendment issues. Ron Paul fits that category as he has introduced legislation to repeal gun control laws and has forced votes on pro-gun legislation. Now, regarding the vote in question, GOA did not rate this vote because there was not a “clean” vote on the bill. That is, even though the bill which became law in 2005 protected gun manufacturers (which we supported), it also contained a trigger lock provision (which we opposed). Hence, GOA rated the subsequent vote to strip the bill of the trigger lock requirement -- and Paul voted correctly on that vote.
David, I would also add that GOA’s rating process is completely open. We are the only national gun organization to make our surveys available to the public upon demand.
DC: NRA is behind reforming ATF. Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership say eliminate it. What is GOA’s position, what are you doing to actualize it, and what’s your feel for your chances?
LP: GOA seeks to abolish the BATFE and hopefully such legislation will be introduced in the next Congress. The chances are admittedly slim, but just the heat of our pressure may save the life of an innocent gun owner when the thugs come no-knocking.
DC: If one were to gauge sentiment from some gun blogs, there’s a lot of hostility toward GOA and a lot of accusations that you divert money that NRA could put to better use. Is there really a lot, and how do you respond to the criticisms?
LP: Critics of GOA might consider that the head of the Senate Second Amendment Caucus, Tom Coburn, considers GOA to be the “real gun lobby” in Washington. (So who is diverting money from whom?) GOA believes that the system is broken in Washington. To work within the system as it is, and not challenge it, is to perpetuate the problem. That is the nub of the difference between the GOA and NRA approaches.
DC: Why don’t more gun owners join GOA? We see numbers of 4 million or so put out there as NRA’s membership---why don’t we have a multi-million member GOA?
LP: For starters, you need to compare “apples to apples.” Because GOA is purely a political organization, you should compare our membership numbers to contributors to NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action. Not every NRA member gets political alerts from the ILA. Having said that, gun owners nationwide are seeing that the NRA approach of “incumbents first so we have a seat at the table” simply isn’t working. GOA continues to grow as a result.
DC: Tell us some GOA success stories.
LP: Well, consider just some of the recent battles which GOA fought and won at the national level:
* GOA was the only national gun lobby fighting the anti-gun ObamaCare legislation. While the bill eventually did become law, we still won some concessions, which led Slate magazine to declare on December 20, 2009: "Score one for the Gun Owners of America."
* GOA also fought the DISCLOSE Act. Even though the NRA took a pass on this bill, our opposition allowed Senator Mitch McConnell to tell his colleagues that gun owners in this country are in strong opposition to this legislation. “GOA vehemently opposes this bill. Why? Because they know it restricts First Amendment rights,” McConnell told fellow Senators on June 24, 2010. Thankfully, we were able to garner enough votes to kill DISCLOSE in the Senate.
* GOA worked with Republican Senator John Ensign of Nevada in 2009 to attach a provision repealing the DC gun ban to the DC Voting Rights Act. The latter was legislation the Democrats really wanted in order to gain three more Democrat seats in Congress -- one in the House and two in the Senate. (This was an effort which would have, no doubt, meant three more ferocious anti-gunners in Congress.) The Ensign amendment passed in the Senate, which caused the overall Voting Rights bill to be extremely distasteful to House Democrats. The bill was pronounced D.O.A. in the House.
Next, do you really think that the National Parks gun ban repeal would have become law without the tireless work of GOA activists? (The guys on the ground who send the emails and make the phone calls.) I could also point to massive gains at the state level -- Firearms Freedom will sweep the country next year, having passed with overwhelming majorities in several states this year. Not to mention our work on Alaska-style carry bills.
DC: Tell us about some GOA improvements you’d like to make.
LP: Really, all we need is more gun owners getting involved. We have been hugely successful, thanks almost solely to the passion of our members. So we are looking for ways to get more folks involved. We're certainly open to suggestions.
Why do you think so many gun owners are uninvolved—in supporting organizations, in getting involved in politics, in understanding the issues that we face? What can we do to help change that?
I think it basically boils down to inertia. An object at rest tends to stay at rest. What's the old saw? First they came for the communists, but I did not say anything…. Our enemies KNOW they can't get our skeet guns and deer rifles right now; President Clinton admitted as much on national television. So if it's not YOUR guns that are currently being threatened, you naturally tend to worry more about the car payment. What can we do about it? Everything we can think of, and if we ever get every gun owner involved, the antis can't touch us. On that day, I'll be out of a job and on my knees thanking the Lord.
DC: We’ve all seen the effort to conflate patriots with extremists and haters. A few years back we saw you withdraw as co-chair of Pat Buchanan for President amidst allegations that would have distracted from his campaign. Do you believe that all peaceable people have a right to equality under the law, including recognition of all rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights and recognized as retained by the people in Amendment IX? What do you say to those who preach racial supremacy, and what is GOA doing to reach out to all Americans?
LP: I was libeled by the Left during Pat's campaign. To his credit, he made it a point to use what little time he had during the New Hampshire debate to try and tell America how groundless those charges were. Of course GOA believes in the enumeration of all rights guaranteed under the Constitution -- and that those rights should be enjoyed by all. We believe that so strongly, in fact, that we do not have a diversity program per se. All are welcome -- eagerly. But we aren't going to pander to the socialists by trying to "reach out" to any given skin color, because skin color is utterly immaterial when it comes to the rights of a free people. And to those who preach racial supremacy, I would say: read your Bible. Perhaps that Bible could be read at the Spanish-language Bible study that my Panamanian wife and I started years ago.
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Also see:
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Reminders
- Restore the Constitution rallies are happening today at various locales. Click here for details.
- I'll be on Tom Gresham's Gun Talk Radio tomorrow in the 2:00 pm EST segment. Click here to find a radio station in your area or to listen via live streaming.
- I'll be on Armed American Radio with Mark Walters tomorrow at 8:00 pm EST. Click here to find a radio station in your area, or click here to listen live.
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Comments
"To work within the system as it is, and not challenge it, is to perpetuate the problem."
Absolutely, totally true. I wish more individuals thought this way.
I think part of the problem is the number of people who believe that the health care "reform" bill has nothing to do with guns. You, David, have pointed out how it creates an entirely new class of "prohibited persons" here: http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/will-house-health-care-bi...
Another angle to look at is the insanely intrusive tax reporting requirements contained in Section 9006--this article shows how THAT would affect gun owners: http://libertyconspiracy.com/healthcare_fascism_bill_includes_firearm_ta...
Decisions, decisions, decisions!
Do I upgrade my old PC and keep all the settings and programs I've accumulated over the years? Or do I buy a new one and have to relearn and reinstall everything?
Do I repair my old (paid for) car or buy a new one and eat the instant depreciation, down payment, and payment hassles for 5 years?
Do I junk the 4 million member NRA with all of it's PR clout and influence or try to make it into the 2A defender it claims to be and could be if more of the membership gave a *&%^ about the Second Amendment?
DDS -- NRA Life Member
Since GOA seems to be more about social conservative issues than defending Second Amendment rights, I see no reason my money should go to his organization. I would much rather my see my money go toward effective organizations, like the Second Amendment Foundation and NRA, who don't discriminate against me because I don't toe the social conservative line.
Tim: You don't read easily, do you?
Furthermore, Time fails to see the connection to so-called "social conservatism" and the second amendment. Socialism and any aspect of it REQUIRES the subordination of the individual to the state--
REQUIRES IT. And armed citizenry is anathema to that. Furthermore, since subordination of the individual to the state is nothing less than facism (Mussolini and Hitler were socialists--fascism is not a political "right" thing; it is a political left thing whereas the further right you go, the further toward anarchy you go). For the record, I settle for a hybrid of conservative libertarianism. The upshot is GOA is a single issue (Second Amendment) organization, with the realization that first, 4th, fifth and ninth amendment concerns interact with the second. It is not linear so you need to abandon linear thinking.
In amplifier design, gain, bandwidth, signal-to-noise ratio and stability are inter-related. Changes to one necessarily affects the others-in constitutional freedom issues, it is the same way. Get over it and support GOA.
"Since GOA seems to be more about social conservative issues than defending Second Amendment rights..."
Tim, could you be more specific?
Beg your pardon, Tim--not Time.
Lying Larry Pratt did a great job of glossing over his firing from the Buchanan campaign for his racist views.
What racist views, Rusty? That was a total smear you refer to, and you're furthering the smear by assuming its legitimacy. Don't just tell us Pratt was accused of being a racist and therefore it's all settled. Make the case with facts and reasoning. Start with who accused him (wasn't it NAACP, a racist organization itself, that believes in special legal rights for "people of color"). For what reasons exactly was he accused of "racism"? Does it follow? Does it make sense?
But you can't make the case, can you? Why? Because it was ridiculous back then once the actual facts were examined, and it's still just as ridiculous now. Larry Pratt is not a racist, unless you actually think one must be a racist to:
* believe in a colorblind society with equality under law regardless of color or national origin
* support having borders and immigration laws enforced regardless of skin color
* believe in an English First anti-balkanization concept.
Only a moron would think that. You're not a moron are you Rusty?
I wish I had known you were making up a list of questions to ask the GOA. I would have asked you to include this one:
How is it possible for GOA to claim "over 300,000 members" (http://gunowners.org/pr0707.htm) and yet show only $430,156 dues income (http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/) for the corresponding year? This seems mathematically impossible, unless GOA has 280,000 life members.
I write this not as a detractor to GOA, but as a life member myself, who would like to be able to refute or explain this discrepancy to a detractor who brought it up. GOA has ignored my requests on this subject.
Good question Henry Bowman-take a look a GOA's tax return sometime and you will see the majority of their money raised goes to one Larry Pratt and his son Eric Pratt.
OK, big mouth. Why don't you provide those figures and a source? Or are you just making it up?
Wayne LaPierre makes $1.3 million per year for constantly selling us out. How much does Larry Pratt make for doing the right thing? You claim to know, but for some reason, I don't think you're going to want to provide those actual figures.
Nothing from Bigmouth's Charge? I heard Wayne LaPierre makes more money than GOA's entire budget. Perhaps that was erroneous. Or maybe LaPierre makes 10 times more than GOA's entire staff put together? Can't you enlighten us with actual figures, real context, and sources, since you claim to know? We need you to compare the salaries of GOA staff with the salaries of NRA staff, in detail. Help us out, Big Mouth. Indeed, please provide detailed budgets of both groups so we can see how much is wasted at NRA, vs GOA's tiny budget?
What's NRA's total budget, $300 million? And for $300 million we get what? Kagan, Sotomayor, Holder, Koh, Sunstein, Veterans Disarmament, Lautenberg(s), LaPierre testifying for "Gun-Free" School Zones, etc., etc.?
And the NRA tried to derail Heller, Gura & Cato, then took credit for the success. Plus they're taking credit for SAF's subsequent work. If that $300million is spent so well, why does the NRA need to take credit for every other group's efforts, even after the NRA tried to derail those efforts?
Please explain. We're all ears.
BigMouth's Charge is like a breath of hot air. What kind of brave man raises vague, sinister allegations of how much Larry Pratt makes, but then runs away and won't put it in perspective, but has the nerve to call himself "Pickett's Charge", after honorable people?
BigMouth's Charge opened the door, however, so let's step through it.
What do you know. My source was wrong. Wayne LaPierre's $1.28 million annual income is only equal to 69% of GOA's entire budget of $1.86 million. That seems unfair. Shouldn't he get a raise?
Also, Wayne LaPierre's pay is TWENTY times larger than Larry Pratt's.
NRA members: Want to puke your guts out? Check some of the NRA's line items.
$44 million in member communications.
$21 million in printing & postage
Two paid solicitor fundraisers who keep 60-70% (over $5 million) of what they bring in...
One of them gets paid an additional $10 million in compensation.
Direct Mail consultant makes $8 million a year.
etc.
If for the last few years GOA and all the rest of America's grassroots groups combined had even had one-tenth of NRA's annual income of one-quarter to one-third of a BILLION dollars a year, America would have NO problem with gun control and we would have two fewer anti-gun members on the Supreme Court right now. Sotomayor & Kagan would never have been confirmed. ETC.
I'm an NRA life member or I would quit. Your money goes 200 times farther at GOA. If nothing else, they thwart a lot of the NRA's evil schemes like DISCLOSE. But I've seen them get involved in critical races at just the right time, as they did to help rid the world of RINO Bob Bennett in Utah when LaPierre & Cox were trying to save him. Utah's Republican delegates later voted that GOA was the most effective group in that season.
Exit polling shows Angle & "pro-gun" Reid in a dead heat. Good Job, NRA superpatriots!
Henry Bowman wrote-
GOA has ignored my requests on this subject.
Sorry Henry-I would not hold my breath waiting to hear from lying Larry.
So let me get this straight.
32 big-city mayors rounded up by the anti-gun Brady campaign and the NAACP file suit against all American gun makers trying to bankrupt them. A bill is introduced by the NRA and NSSF is introduced to stop this abuse and is signed into law in 2005. GOA did nothing to help it's passage and did not score it's passage-what a joke -they will never get a dime of my money.
Good interview, David. Your question selection was relevant and pointed, and fair. And Mr. Pratt gave you direct answers. You might have a future in this media business... ;) Do you have requests out there with NRA/SAF/JFPO folks?
Henry: A portion of those members could be life members who do not pay every year. So the revenue comes from new and renewal members, is my guess.
Pickett: Where the money goes is really not the right question in a group like this. Measure instead: Are they getting the job done? Do they have access at the table and to the proper players on the Hill and in the industry? Can Larry get the owner of the new Auto Mag Company on the phone, can he get Alan Gura on the phone? Can he get Ted Nugent at an event for some celeb power?
If the job is getting done, no need top micro manage.
DC is all about access, and access is golden.
Best,
Sam
III
I understand Ted Nugent offered to show up at a landmark GRASSROOTS DC 2nd Amendment rally IF he was paid $35,000, etc, etc. Jacking up grassroots for $35k + perks? Weak!
GOA is getting the job done to the extent they have resources. Far more done per member and per dollar than the NRA. More importantly, what they DO is never a betrayal, like DISCLOSE.
Access is one model, and DC IS all about access from the corrupt lobbyist POV. NRA members should be asking on whose behalf the access is being used, because it doesn't look like it's on our behalf.
The goa screwed over all gunowners by asking for the narrow view on Heller. It was the only group in all of the assocations, organizations and briefs to ask for it. Then they wimped out without a single lawsuit to cover their actions. Since Heller was judged on the narrow view, it was up to the SAF and the NRA to cover the loss with McDonald.
If you want to judge the goa, just look at this interview where they have no record to speak of without mentioning the NRA.
Even the Second Amendment Sisters has a better track record by counteracting the "Million" moms.
Support gun groups that actually do something such as the SAS and the SAF.
David this is an excellent article and interview. You asked direct questions and Larry gave you good answers.
The thing that amazes me is the comments to your article from the NRA crowd.
Its clear many gun owners associate their gun ownership with the NRA; where people like myself associate my gun ownership with God and the Constitution.
David, personally I don’t think I can rely on NRA members for anything but rhetoric. In my opinion these people will follow Wayne LaPierre over a cliff and its sad because our country needs patriotic gun owners now more than ever
The chatter that I’m getting is the Elite want another $5 trillion in bailouts or they are going to pull the plug on what’s left of the economy
The plan is the Republicans/new congress will either capitulate or the Elite will pull $5 trillion out of the stock market and then blame the New congress/republicans for the crash. (Current market value is $12 trillion)
The future of our country will be decided in the streets and I have NO faith in NRA apologist when it comes to standing up for liberty.
Very well planned out seriesof objective questions and follow-ups, provided a lot of good information for both gun-owners and non-gun-owners alike, and made for good education, in general. A pleasure to read!
I have been a member of GOA since 1986/ the NRA for considerably longer. My experience has shown that GOA is truly on the cutting edge of the fight for our gun rights. Your comment that GOA is more akin to NRA/ILA was right on the money. The fight continues. I have never become a Life Member of NRA simply because of things like their stance on the Disclose Act . As an organization (like our Government) becomes as large as the NRA, more compromises are made to maintain the "Position of Power". GOA is now receiving more of my political dollars as I feel they are better spent on my behalf as a gun owner. Keep up the "Good Fight", Larry. God Bless you, and your staff.
I belong to neither group but enjoy watching each group (the NRA and GOA) fight it out over membership and leadership of the tens of millions of gun owners. Gun ownrs who are like me and hopefully vote on election day as independent voters looking for the best representative for us in our district who will protect our right to own a gun and be able to effectively defend ourselves against criminals who are often better armed than we are. I use the gun organizations review and grading for advisement and not as an order telling me who I have to vote for. It is fine to belong to these organizations but when you blindly vote their ticket you are as much of a danger to democracy as some of the people you have elected in the past. And when an organization's actions go anaginst it's stated goals then you need to withhold your support and make them accountable to you and not to the policy makers.
Why has Gun Owners of America only endorsed 64 U.S. House candidates and did not endorse the pro-gun Republican candidate opposing the anti-gun Democrat in the competitive U.S. Senate races in Connecticut, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin?
The NRA Political Victory Fund is reported to be spending $20 million in this election cycle (www.dailycaller.com/2010/11/01/thedc-exclusive-nra-spends-20-million-thi...). How much is GOA spending to support their few endorsed candidates? According to FEC reports their largest PAC expenditure was for their accountant (over $15,000) and that amount is more than one-third of their total 2010 expenditures to date). As of October 13, GOA spent $3,559 for all of its endorsed Senate candidates and $2,877 for all of its endorsed House candidates. Over $20 million by the NRA and less than $10,000 by GOA – who is doing more to protect your Second Amendment rights in the 2010 election cycle? GOA is very partisan and ineffective.
Do you REALLY want to go there? In US Senate races over the last decade, the NRA refused to endorse dozens of A rated Republicans who were challenging F rated Democrat incumbents - who were all re-elected.
And the NRA helped wreck Tea Party candidates Joe Miller & Sharron Angle last night.
GOA is VERY effective for a budget one half of one percent of the size of the NRA's budget.
NRA gives out a lot of money alright, but they give it in many cases to the wrong people. Like Harry Reid and Byron Dorgan. What's the excuse, or shall I say motive, for donating to a Democrat who even the NRA rated D+, and who was retiring anyway?
According to Larry Pratt, "GOA did not rate this vote because there was not a 'clean' vote on the bill" Really? In fact, there was a "clean" and clear vote on the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act -- H.R. 1036 in the 108th Congress -- and Ron Paul along with Mike Castle and Chris Shays were the only three Republican congressmen to vote against it. Truth is just as important as freedom.
"Truth is just as important as freedom."
That's right. Truth and Freedom are equally unimportant to the NRA.
That's why they misrepresent anti-gun candidates as pro-gun, support gun control, help Sarah Brady, and work backroom deals to undermine the Constitution (DISCLOSE).
You point to a few arguable *flawed* anecdotes in GOA grades, which are really exceptions that prove the rule, to divert attention from NRA's wholesale intentional grading fraud. Are you really going to argue that Ron Paul is anti-gun, while dozens of traitors like Jon Tester, Arlen Specter, Tim Johnson, Mark Warner, Bob Casey, Jim Webb, Max Baucus or Ben Nelson deserve an A or an A+?
You're pointing out the speck in GOA's eye while hiding the log in NRA's.
One thing you can be sure of with GOA is they'll never give traitors like that an A or a B, unlike NRA.
By the way, why are you on about "Truth and Freedom". Doesn't that logically contradict your "single-issue group" rap? How can you claim to be about truth and freedom when you argue for a group willing to sell out every issue but one?
"How can you claim to be about truth and freedom when you argue for a group willing to sell out every issue but one?"
Good point. The only problem is that the single issue the NRA won't sell out is not the Second Amendment. Guess what it is.
NRA: Good Job helping Establishment "Republican" Incumbent Queen Lisa Murkowski beat the Tea Party's Joe Miller!
Murkowski voted for extreme anti-gun Eric Holder for Attorney General, and for Judge Richard Hamilton who said the Founding Fathers intended judges to amend the Constitution through evolving case law. Etc.
But we gave her an A rating and endorsed her in the primary, and we would not endorse Joe Miller in the general election on the supposed grounds that they both had "A" ratings.
We're sticking with our single issue. Guess which issue that is! Hint: It's not gun rights, freedom, or truth!
Just send us more money and you'll get more of the same great service! Guess what kind of service I'm thinking of!
I like Cox.
Chris Cox, silly!
P.S. Check me out on
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/10/nra-lairds-of-fairfax...
Live streaming web cam!
-Wayne "Pepe" LaPierre
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