"It's All Over Now, Baby Blue", circa 1990-91
Boy - another Bob Dylan story spreading like wildfire across the internet - 14 posts and counting.
LOS ANGELES TIMES: As well, you've had experience becoming a character outside yourself [Mitchell caused controversy when she appeared as an African American male on the cover of her 1977 album, "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"].The folk scene you came out of had fun creating personas. You were born Roberta Joan Anderson, and someone named Bobby Zimmerman became Bob Dylan.
JONI MITCHELL: Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I.
"Big Yellow Taxi", with a nod to Bob
Is this really an insult ? Robert Zimmerman created Bob Dylan. He has borrowed and he has stolen. That's no secret.
This seems to be much ado about nothing. William Shakespeare said that.
Mitchell is just being a straight shooter. Dylan does the same thing - just read any of his recent interviews.
Dylan and Mitchell have been admirers of each other for decades. Mitchell has sung Dylan songs periodically over the years. Dylan covered "Big Yellow Taxi" on June 4, 1970, and Mitchell subsequently added Dylan's additional verse when performing it in concert. Mitchell participated in a handful of Rolling Thunder Revue shows in 1975. The following year, they both appeared at The Last Waltz. Mitchell joined Dylan for a song at the Great Music Experience in Nara, Japan, on May 22, 1994. They also toured together in 1998.
"Mr. Tambourine Man"
What is fascinating is that all the various press reports have decided to interpret this as an attack. Here's some of what has been printed so far:
TWENTY FOUR BIT : Mitchell dropped possibly the most scathing piece of Bob Dylan criticism I’ve ever seen.
VANITY FAIR: Joni Mitchell is very outspoken about her distaste for a one Bob Dylan.
NEWSER: Joni Mitchell: Bob Dylan Is a Fake (Headline). Safe to say that Joni Mitchell is not a big fan of Bob Dylan.
MOG: Decades after anyone really cares, Joni Mitchell has decided to launch all out attacks on the state of music, and the world at large.
AMERICAN SONGWRITER: Joni Mitchell “Slanders” Bob Dylan (Headline). Look out, Bob! Joni Mitchell is kind of pissed at you. (Although it added : We think Mitchell . . .was probably more sore that the interviewer compared her to Dylan during their discussion than anything else, and lashed out accordingly.)
You get the idea.
Anyway, enjoy the embedded clips. I think you'll get a better picture of what Joni thinks of Bob.
Joni Mitchell with Johnny Cash, "Girl From The North Country"
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Comments
Noncense from Examiner
When Rolling Thunder Review played to prisoners, Joni was there. They booed her off stage because she was so haughty and etherial upon which she said to the inmates "We're here to bring you love, and if you can't accept it, that's your problem". A little condescending? Joni has produced some great, even beaautiful work. But she's no Dylan.
"Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception."
I read this story last night at the American Songwriter site after a friend sent me the link. Sorry, but I can't excuse Joni for saying these things about Bob. Maybe he "plagiarized" a little when he first started writing songs, but he is far from a plagiarist. There is nothing fake or deceptive about him in my opinion.
Examiner, I'm disappointed in your take on this.
This is such highhorse bullxxxx. Albeit I would rather stick my hand in a meat grinder than listen to Joni's voice...and I love Bobs...what's that say about her? Anyway, Dylan changed his name for the same reason Ethel (Zim)Merman did...think about the time and the industry, there's nothing wrong with it. It's a well known fact that Dylan absolutely LOVES borrowing things from other peoples poetry and songs, as do MANY other successful artists. If it weren't for Bob I wouldn't even have ever listened to countless musicians including Joni. If it weren't for Dylan, Joni wouldn't even have a job. She would be the body-double for Sissie Spacek. That crap is like a black President 100 years from now saying that Obama was hack and a poser. Keep on playing to your handful of (dying) fans while Dylan's plageristic music will ring out for hundreds of years to come.
mature artists steal and good ones turn it into something better or at least different
ts eliot
What a stupid article! You are trying to make us think Joni was flattering Dylan by remembering Dylan-covered-Mitchell and viceversa. So? That was a long time ago. She obviously changed her mind about him. Anyway, It is amazing that there was no follow-up by the LAT interviewer after her statement about Dylan
No publicity is bad publicity. Women ya just cannot predict them and shouldn't even try.
She's the female Dylan, though much less prolific. Her authenticity far surpasses Dylan's authenticity, for sure. She's just telling the truth. I love Bob, but if you merely look at the plagiarism on Modern Times alone, you HAVE to agree with her. Most of his melodic stylings are merely rehashed blues from the last 50 years. Some of his most famous music from the 60s , the music was a complete ripoff from old folk/blues artists without ANY credit given. He stole the title Love and Theft from that Japanese author without giving any credit to him. The thing is, he doesn't cite or give credit to any of these other artists-the definition of plagarism.
She's spot on in her comments.
The author of the book Love and Theft was Eric Loft; he is not a Japanese man. The title was placed in quotations on the record. And Loft was absolutely thrilled that Dylan had used his title. If it's good enough for the author it should ge good enough for you. But then you would need to know what you're talking about and clearly you don't.
I can't agree that "he doesn't give credit to any..."
He doesn't interview very often... but if you really read all of what he's said in interviews over the years you'll see many times where he speaks of using the melody from this song and this author as the base of this song. etc... I've seen him make those type of credits often if you accumulate them. Its certainly true though to say for the 500-1000 songs he has out he' s not real interested in sitting down and hashing out all of their respective influences and sources. But he's talked about it enough to see that its a very common tool in his box.
Examiner is the best page on this site. I love it. As for Joni, she's very talented and i'm sure Dylan finds it all very amusing and i cant see him losing any sleep over it. I'm just glad the volcano has died down and looking forward to seeing him in Europe for the summer. Rock On!!
harold, what's up with the pop-up adds on your website. they are as uncool as joni dissing dylan.
On the back of Times Changin' album, the young Bob wrote, "Yes i'm a Thief of Thoughts". Decades later Bob's guinness buddy Bono wrote "Every poet is a Thief". Dylan's influence will never be measured accurately because he's an absolute musical giant.
The videos are great. Joni has a beautiful voice. Her arrangement for Tambourine Man reminds me of Bobs Live at Budokan arrangement. Which one came first.
Not a Joni Mitchell fan myself, but who cares? She can say this if she wants. I love Bob as an artist & musician, but he gets his a** kissed enough by everyone. And he has ripped off/borrowed lyrics & melodies countless times over the years - even recent years (see Nettie Moore, Someday Baby, Rollin And Tumblin, Lonesome Day Blues as examples). But b/c he's him and gets a pass as being a part of the "folk tradition" it's overlooked. I don't care, but there might be some truth to what she said. Anyone remember what Jack White said about a year ago:
"I don't know if Bob Dylan and Tom Waits are as authentic as I think they are. Perhaps they're not. Sometimes you start thinking that maybe Britney Spears or someone like that who's doing exactly what they want to do in the way that they best know how, is more authentic than any of those people you could mention."
Maybe he's got a point & Joni just ran away with it.
Here's one "Night and Day" difference between Bob and Joni: Bob stayed off the road during the early years of his children (1966-1974) and was a father. Joni gave hers up for adoption because she had other things to do.
Is that the definition of deception?
I think Joni, at her best, is a magnificent songwriter. But she has become extraordinarily catty lately. Is this an insult? Dylan once called Ginsberg a "con man extraordinaire," didn't he?
Well, if you pay attention to the words, and the comparison she draws between herself and Bob, of course it's an insult. She is not saying that he steals and borrows in any other context than to make a negative comparison between Bob and herself. She is setting herself up as authentic (cf. her comments about Madonna and the 80s) and Dylan as a "fake", a "deception" and a "plagiarist". There is absolutely no attempt to put Dylan's borrowings in a positive light. She would know, given even a modicum of sense (and she has plenty), that her comments would be construed as a knock, and yet makes no attempt to qualify anything she says about him (as she would if she meant it in the way that Bob meant his comment about Ginsberg). She is straight-talking indeed, and is going straight for the jugular.
Folk artists borrow from each other, and Bob borrowed chords, titles and phrases from other singers, like Guthrie, as did everyone else--and don't you think Woody'd be damned proud that Bob loved his music enough to use shadows of it in his early work? Keep that in mind as you remember that Bob wrote hundreds and HUNDREDS of songs that were NOT borrowed from others--he is not fake, he is not a liar, he is not a deception. His voice is always beautiful and I doubt he gives a crap about any of this.
Well i'm rather well heeled and i've been following that Dylan chappie for years now. i used to slow hand clap him back in '66 and was part of the mob that liked to inflict cruelty on Bobby. Normally i criticize everything he does but always go to see him play just so's i can walk out in the middle of the show because it makes me feel important. Thats after i have arrived early to secure a good position and refuse any of the believers access past my position of privilege. So i am really pleased with Mizz Mitchel's comments because it validates me and how i have wasted my life being a no talent type who derives great enjoyment attacking Bob Dylan.
"Like the lion tears the flesh off of a man
So too can a woman who passes herself off as a man"
"Our father would not like the way that you act"
OOPS, i meant tear the flesh off of a lamb, not man, but indeed it seems like joni can cause she ain't no woman, she's a man!!!! Ha, ha.
"Then the world will explode"
Hey groanie Joni "Don't be cruel to a heart thats true"
what a bitch
Hot damn, iffa God made anything more troublesome than a woman, then boy he kept it
Hey Joni, you gonna start acting like a man, then i'm gonna start treating ya like one!
Who's Joni Mitchell?
Rock 'n'Roll is almost dead, Dylan is the only one still fit to play it.
Neil Young too
Nothing new. Mitchell lashed out at Jackson Browne years ago. Both Dylan and Browne have been far more productive as they matured, and creative. Bitterness seems to be the new cloud in Ms. Mitchell's world. Too bad such a joyful song has morphed into a jaded cackle. She not busy being born is busy dying.
She'll never live down such stupid and jealous comments. What's her problem? Oh yeah, no one pays any attention to her anymore. It's just for shock value since she has nothing interesting to offer anymore. She was once good, a very long time ago.
Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief
Preposterous premise
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