“Take us or leave us, we’re always one step away from being mainstream,” admits Phil Oakey, lead singer and founder of pop’s delicious trio, the Human League. With their ninth studio album Credo (2011, Wall of Sound Records), the sharp-wit of one of pop music’s most recognized and profound voices is confident that the future is reserving space for the Human League although the way they arrive, according to Oakey, is hardly conventional in today’s digital media. Although it’s been 25 years since their last US number one ('Human' from the 1986 album Crash), the Human League isn’t stuck in a vacuum of retro nostalgia. “I think what we’re doing now is better than ever,” Phil boldly declares, speaking from the comfort of his Sheffield flat. “Creating artistic things is all I really want to do.”
With a world tour launching next month, the League’s two stage beauties Susan Sulley and brunette Joanne Catherall have summoned their leader, singer/songwriter Phil Oakey, to the phone to speak to retro enthusiast Jeremy Kennedy to subjectively summarize 30 years of the Human League’s motives, glories, and faults and how 2011 has never been more optimistic for the veterans of electro-pop.
JK: The Human League were one of the first bands to incorporate photo images and project them on stage. What type of stage techniques will be used on your upcoming tour?
Phil : “I leave all of that to the tour manager. My role is to get the words right! I’ve always believed in the vagueness of art and I find it just as intriguing to see how other people interpret our songs. For example, I think ‘Whiter Shade of Pale’ is extremely atmospheric. The lyrics probably don’t mean anything at all, but as you’re listening to it, it can mean anything that you want it to how it relates to your life. I think it is best not to pin things down. We’re still very lo-fi considering all of the grand technology available. We’re not afraid to use screens with tattered holes because it still leaves room for us to be vague.”
JK: What is the musical difference between America & Britain through the eyes of the Human League?
Phil: “We’re quite unusual in an American context. The Human League has never come naturally to Americans. In the UK, we went through punk – which was an entire movement, so anything you did was just another piece of art. But in America, you were actually expected to play instruments. We shocked our American producers Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis when they learned that we didn’t fancy any instrument skills. Also, America is very swing-based musically. R&B, blues is a big part of the swing whereas England is very metronomic. I prefer it straight because you don’t have to think about it.”
JK: To anyone that keeps an eye on the Human League, one could easily draw the conclusion that you don’t like making records based on the gaps that separate each release. Do you agree?
Phil: “I think we probably do enjoy it. Part of it is just the drive. It has become quite hard to make records. Why? I think it’s because you have less staff really. Back in the ‘80s, we would lease a huge studio where you’d have someone running to make tea, cleaning the tape recorder, all of the engineers, producers, and session players. Now, the only way the Human League can make an album is to work in parallel. I wrote the album with our drummer (Rob Barton) and the production duo of I Monster worked on programming the backing tracks while the girls and I reworked the vocals. (Laughing) I was very surprised at the work I put in to this. I assumed at this age I’d be in retirement, watching the television with a beer in my hand. Nonetheless, I was up until 2 AM in the morning editing vocals on a new software program that you have to learn all over again as technology changes with each record.”
JK: The Human League was obviously in pop music for the long haul. In 1986, you built your own studio to be as creative as you wished on your own dime. In hindsight, has it been a wise investment or a reckless decision?
Phil: “Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis had this effective studio that they designed instinctively without hiring a sound architect. They started winning Grammys and we thought it would be a great move for us to follow their lead. We’ve been there ever since. In terms of financial reward, we aren’t paying $2000 each day to record as we did back in the Eighties. Before we built the studio, it was really tough for us to get ahead. We were trapped in this consistent treadmill of paying for studio time ‘owed’ from debts of the last album with royalties we hoped to earn with future album sales. We’ve finally been released of some of that debt just recently in fact. Today, our Sheffield studio also serves as a storage facility for much of our old gear. Back when we were no longer in style, musicians were literally giving away analog synthesizers and drum machines. Now, these artifacts are golden on eBay, reeling in thousands of dollars for collectors of vintage electronic gear.”
JK: When does the alarm sound that now is the time to make a new Human League record?
Phil: “It just rears its head. Sometimes you have to respond to what’s happening publicly. For years, we were dominated by guitar-pop in Britain that weren’t that particularly successful internationally. Bands like Oasis, Blur, Interpol and so on. It looked as if bands that made music with keyboards were locked out. Then suddenly, there’s a breakthrough like Lady Ga Ga, for example, that provides you with an opportunity. In this case, dance-synth music. This niche is more suitable for the Human League than a few years ago when the Killers were the rage. However, if you commit to jumping in, you have to carve out time because tooling is so time consuming. All of the demands of preparations, rehearsals, picking out your wardrobe, and so forth require everything from you.”
JK: Is it any surprise that other acts from the first generation of synth-pop have trailed on the same path?
Phil: “OMD have certainly done better than us. They’ve had massive hits across Germany with their latest record. But you know, I haven’t heard it! I’m really dance-oriented, so I have to claw myself out to listen to any conventional pop. I really have to force myself to listen to things that aren’t pulsating instrumentals these days.”
JK: Speaking of instrumentals, your last two LPs featured instrumentals that bled in-between each album track. Can we expect the same strategy with Credo?
Phil: “No. We decided not to do it because we actually ended up signing to a dance label and the executive just lives for dance music. We focused on remixes more for Credo than we’ve done in past releases and less instrumental experimentation. Our manager worked miracles by recruiting remixers that we thought were out of our league, including Cerrone.
JK: The first single 'Night People' seems to be more observatory, whereas the follow-up ‘Never Let Me Go’ could be perceived as autobiographical. What is the standard approach to laying down lyrics on a Human League record?
Phil: “It’s all about inspiration really. Honestly, I just enjoy the basics – that is, laying down a fantastic noise on the drum machine or the synthesizer. From there, the light shines and you can’t sleep until you turn your audio gem into a song. Once I have my sound, I merge it with what inspires me. Films certainly do, for instance. 'Night People' is actually based on the film Scanners by David Cronenberg (2001, MGM) and the confusion that ensues in dance nightclubs – things like hard drugs, financial welfare, and complete bizarreness. Yet in spite of the unpredictability, for the most part, everyone is respectfully delightful. I would spend hours in clubs like Gatecrashers, mesmerized by the music and the interactions before me.”
JK: So is this an admission Phil? Do you dance?
Phil: “I do when I have to. I’m not a good dancer. I’m not particularly rhythmic, so if I do move, it’s because the mood has abducted me. It’s not a pleasant sight.”
JK: How does Credo hold its weight compared to the long list of other Human League albums?
Phil: “I’m bound to be pleased with it. It does what I want it to do. In previous recordings, you have this instinct feeling when the album is going off in a direction you’re not comfortable with. For example, Secrets (2001, Ark 21 Records) was a bit vulgarly shiny and luxurious with too much reverb. However, The Human League need to be linear and direct. We are not a sophisticated band and we have to keep interest with our melodies and tunes. That’s all we’ve got. Somehow I was born in a golden generation where it was proclaimed that if you want to make something, you don’t even have to learn the basics of how to do it.”
JK: Credo has received some mixed reviews. Honestly, do bad reviews get under your skin or does it matter at this point in your career?
Phil: “I just have to take what happens now for what it is. I’ve been in it for so long that if what we do doesn’t suit what the critic is looking for, then my reaction is, well, that’s that. We have aimed it wrongly or maybe everyone is tired of us. I take criticism with a pinch of salt really. The most important aspect to me is that we did what we intended. It would be worse if we set out to achieve something and failed in the process.”
JK: Thirty-three years and with nine distinctive albums to your credit, who is Phil Oakey’s favorite Human League producer?
Phil: “That’s a tough question. Martin Rushent (d. June 4th, 2011 at age 62), who produced Dare and Fascination, died recently at a terribly young age. Colin Thurston too. There is always a great talent behind the intricate machine of the Human League. I mean, Chris Thomas, who we worked with on Fascination has quite a resume, producing the Pretenders, the Sex Pistols and mixed “The Dark Side of the Moon” by Pink Floyd. That’s definitely an honor badge to have in your career. Invaluably, Ian Stanley (Tears for Fears) revived our self-esteem and put us back on the map at a time when the Human League’s career looked dismal. Overall though, I can’t really pick just one.”
JK: The Human League has been invisible socially on the World Wide Web since the Internet went viral in the mid-1990s until this year, when an official Facebook page was launched. Has your motive to remain absent been purposely driven in hopes of remaining mysterious or is it something else? Why the late arrival to the information age?
Phil: “Actually, our Facebook page is run by the record label. I am deeply very suspicious of the Internet. I like things to be finished and the Internet is constantly in rehearsal. It waters down the truth. I’m terrified of the communication that goes on there. People already talk too much, now it’s multiplied uncontrollably. I’m arms length about it all. I fear that we’ll turn around in twenty years time and say ‘What happened to creativity?’”
JK: So what is the consumer to do with a new Human League record if you’re not a fan of digital network information?
Phil: “People that like the League are hard-copy consumers. We’re not as down-loadable as other bands. I’m still a fan of in-store purchasing. Every week I visit the local music store and buy CDs and record formats, and put them in my own iTunes folder myself. I don’t know if I’ll break this habit, but I like holding something that I own in my hand.”
JK: Are you tempted to promote your Human League products virtually through the net?
Phil: “Publicity is no longer about who you know, but where to go. It’s all about being seen. But with so much availability, how do you sort through it all? My manager thinks that I’m absolutely wrong about this. He’d like me to be youtube-ing and Twittering. But if you can get away with it, by not spouting out publicly, that’s the best way to publicize yourself. It’s funny because I’m a total Republican (opposition to the British Monarchy). I think the royal family should be thrown out. Anyone from the country should have a chance to be head of state for democratic reasons. It’s just not fair. However, the best person at publicity is the Queen. She doesn’t do any interviews. She doesn’t reveal herself and she remains a beloved mystery. By having an opinion, the worst thing you can do is let people see how ordinary you are.”
JK: In 2000, March Records released Reproductions: Songs of the Human League, an engaging, yet diverse assortment of indy-pop artists covering your songs. Was it complimentary or insulting to you?
Phil: “I liked it! It’s a good feeling if someone takes something you’ve done and reworks it. It’s a thumb rule, if you’re doing a cover, unless it’s a song that somehow got missed, you should take it in a completely different approach. I was quite pleased with the Stars cover of ‘Stay with me tonight’. I think their version was quite lovelier than ours!”
JK: In the last ten years, you’ve broken away from the Human League for several one-off recordings with other artists like Little Boots and the Pet Shop Boys. What’s next on the horizon for you outside of the Human League shell?
Phil: “I’m making an effort to do less actually. I realized that if I’m going to put out a contemporary new album, I have to shed this notion that I’m a vocal representative for the Eighties. It seemed for a while there that every time someone laid down a track with a retro synth on it, I was becoming the first choice. But I couldn’t say no to the Pet Shop Boys. I love them. But moving forward, I’m more anxious to be involved with projects that I’m actually in control of rather than just a part of.”
JK: Are music videos as relevant in 2011 as they were 30 years ago?
Phil: “I don’t know because I’m not a fan. MTV is certainly no longer resourceful. However, videos are more likely to be seen in a bar today but unfortunately are often muted by the overshadowing of another song over the interior sound-system. Novelty video singles are certainly contagious, so maybe they’re still working?”
JK: What’s your favorite HL video? Any horrific video shooting experiences you’d like to share?
Phil: “Making videos isn’t very pleasant because you’re at the mercy of someone else’s camera. They can get very expensive quickly! It gets even more astronomical if you dare to stop production in the middle of it. The last video we made (‘Never Let Me Go’) came about by coincidence really. I was making some strangely distorted pictures with my camera phone that you can’t capture with your average camera. When the video for our last single was kicked around, I held up my phone to the producers and said, ‘How about using photos like this?’ I love the end result! However, there is a divergence of opinions about our latest video within the group. I don’t think Susan likes it all that much.”
JK: Many artists riding the Eighties’ circuit today have re-recorded some of their biggest hits to gain propriety of their music. Is this something that Human League might dabble with eventually?
Phil: “It’s hard to know how much of your work is driven by novelty vs. quality. I mean, after being on a lengthy, exhaustive tour, the very last thing I would say to our manager is now I’m ready to make ‘Love Action’ better. I’m moving forward. There’s great music out there just waiting to be written. I tend not to get stuck in the past. My horror is that we’ll stay the same. So I try to move on and I if I’m lucky, I thank God that I get moved on naturally. I mean, nature has moved my haircut, for example. I’m now a guy with short, grey thinning hair. Otherwise, I might desperately try to look like that guy from the 1980s.”
JK: Are there any Eighties bands that you’d be interested in seeing reunite?
Phil: “The band that often turns up when this question comes up for me personally is Soft Cell, who I think were extraordinarily unique as well as fantastic. I love Soft Cell. I’d love to see them! Oddly, I’ll add a little twist to this conversation to say that I actually prefer Duran Duran now than I did in their adolescent years. I loved their album with Timbalandfrom a few years back.”
JK: Although you’re not touring Atlanta this time around, does the New South hold any fond memories for the Human League?
Phil: “I particularly like Atlanta. It’s probably because I like shopping centers so much. The last time I was in Atlanta, our bus had broken down and we were so happy to have made it there after a disastrous journey on the road. Across the street from our hotel, I went into the best mall I’ve ever been to (Lenox Mall). Afterwards, I walked across the street and went into another mall that was even better than that (Phipps Plaza).Atlanta had two great malls right on the same corner. This is really giving me away as a consumerist, but I actually love shopping malls. I ‘collect’ them with visits. I’ve even been to Dubai just to shop in their colossal shopping malls.”
JK: So what would Phil Oakey most likely purchase in a shopping mall?
Phil: “I still try to make myself look fashionably good with clothes. It very often doesn’t work. I can spend lots of money and still look like an idiot in the end. But I’ve always been interested in fashion and what’s going on in clothing trends. You can’t be a guy as old as I am looking as flamboyant as I would like to be. I still love Diesel design though he’s gone mid-market in Europe, his clothes fit.”
JK: As we close Phil, would you be so kind to share with Human League fans, what is your outlook on each of the Human League’s albums?
Phil: “I shall do my very best. Forgive me for waffling uncontrollably though should my memory diverge. It’s revelatory that I don’t know the names of my albums, but I’ll do my best. Age is encroaching on me.”
Reproduction (1979): “This album is desperately in need of a Martin Ware remix.”
Travelogue (1980): “Surprisingly, good.”
Dare (1981): “Hmm…Not quite as good as people think it is.”
Love & Dancing (1982): “It was a step forward for pop music. It may have been the first full-length dance-dub remix album released.”
Fascination (1983): “I’m proud to have made a good little pop record on this one.”
Hysteria (1984): “We were just barely treading water.”
Crash (1986): “A breath of relief. We got away with it mainly because we became excited about R&B and Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis were fans of the drum machine.”
Romantic (1990): “Panic and despair really; the lowest point of our career. We were so unhappy, no one cared about us and it looked as if we had no future. We also had personal problems of our own. I wouldn’t mind if it disappeared.”
Octopus (1995): “This was the new horizon for the Human League. It saved our career.”
Secrets (2001): “Slightly too humorous and too shiny for a Human League record. We’ve got to be cruder and not sound like Tears for Fears.”
Credo (2011): “It’s correctly aligned with the Human League. It takes us where we want to go.”
For more information on the Human League music and their upcoming US tour, please visit www.thehumanleague.co.ukfor updates and audio samples from their long-awaited release Credo.
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