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Brothers who were attacked may have been drinking, zoo says
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According to public relations specialist Sam Singer, who was hired by the San Francisco Zoo over the weekend, the workers noticed an empty bottle of vodka sitting on the front seat of the car driven by one of the victims. The workers notified police and the car was towed pending the completion of the investigation, Singer said.
The criminal investigation is still ongoing and police spokesman Sgt. Neville Gittens said Tuesday that the Department wasn’t going to confirm details until it was completed.
Mark Geragos, who has handled several high-profile cases such as the Scott Peterson murder trial in Redwood City, told ABCNews.com Tuesday that he is representing Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal, the two brothers who were mauled along with Carlos Sousa Jr.
San Francisco police Chief Heather Fong has repeatedly said investigators didn’t have any evidence that would suggest the mauling victims had taunted the 350-pound Siberian tiger, and Tuesday Geragos said such allegations were “an urban legend.”
Despite being the only link to what actually happened on Christmas Day, the brothers remain tight-lipped. They have yet to speak to either Sousa’s family or the media.
The zoo is scheduled to open Thursday morning, but the big cat enclosures will remain closed to the public. Zoo Director Manuel Mollinedo announced Monday that the exhibit would get a face-lift before opening. The City’s Recreation and Parks Department will oversee the project.
The Association of Zoos and Aquariums are assembling a group of prominent zoo directors to visit and consult with San Francisco Zoo management on safety issues. The panel is expected to meet early next week.
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police said:
that people are so cruel
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Quack said:
These stupid dweebs are totlally guilty, they brought it on themselves and should be punished. We don't need a trial, we have their statements and eye witnesses to what they did to provoke this attack. The facts are there, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a damn duck! Punish them all!
4 agree | 2 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
this is weird
1 agree | 1 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Irresponsible, sensational, and wholly inaccurate reporting. I listened to the same tape. 1. Dispatchers do just that, they send help. (The dispatchers in the tapes did that) 2. Dispatchers give potentially lifesaving instructions while help is on the way. (This dispatcher repeatedly tried to get the uncooperative caller to calm down enough to provide first aid to his brother) 3. Specific tactics of the responders (police, fire and EMS) are decided upon by field supervisors based on conditions at the scene. (911 dispatchers in San Francisco are civilians-classified by the city as clerks, actually- who are highly trained to screen calls for emergency help and send the appropriate response) I would like the author of this article to defend his position that the dispatchers who handled the calls for help in the Tiger mauling did not help the victims.
94 agree | 107 disagree
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Examiner Reader BB said:
i'm just saying that if a german sherpard can attack just for that plain reason of being constantly called back, what do you think those boys must have done in order for that tiger to get out and attack them, something really bad!!use your brain idiot, not comparing both animals just trying to figure out what those boys had done to the tiger.
91 agree | 99 disagree
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german shepard...are you serious? said:
Do you not realize that this is a TIGER. A 200 pound, 7-11 foot long killing machine? I do feel sorry for the victim, that he died in such a horrible manner, but how dumb are you? Really.
60 agree | 93 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Criminal charges are in order to the SF Zoo administrators. The tiger should not have been able to get out of its cage for whatever reason. This includes the vulgar behavior which also needs to be reprimanded.
114 agree | 104 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Shoe and blood found in enclosure stated in earlier reports. Blood on sign that is 18" from wall stating area is prohibited. Man dangles legs over wall. Cat grabs legs. Man grabs sign that would be reachable at 18" away. Flight or fight response makes man strong. Cat climbs wall higher than would normally be able to, because of leverage given by man's legs while man clings to sign for his life. Man frees himself, uses sign to pull himslef up. Flees (hence the trail of blood leading from inside habitat to victims)and loses shoe. Cat makes her way over the wall. We all know the rest. Men now have attorney so any evidence found in enclosure disappears. Before you dismiss this as crazy research "flight or fight". You never know.
114 agree | 109 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Regarding my comment: 5:55 PM MST on Fri., Jan. 18, 2008 - I have carefully read your statement and I would like to add this. The percentage of harm and deaths to innocent victims are caused by individuals that are either drunk and/or high on drugs vs. victims attacked by zoo wildlife. Can the 4 that disagree please provide me with your statistics. I did my research and in the state of California alone there are approximately 200,000 arrests for DUI every year. California Highway Patrol records states that a total of 31,189 people were injured in alcohol-related traffic accidents. This comes down to approximately 86 people per day. Injuries caused in such accidents comprise of roughly 10.94% of the total 284,871 traffic injuries in California. It also states that a total of 1,100 people were killed in alcohol-related accidents in California - this equates to 3 people per day. These deaths roughly represent almost 29.96% of the total 3,671 traffic fatalities.
112 agree | 105 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Re: I wonder what the public response would be if it was the life of a child taken by the stupid actions of these teens instead of the tiger. Stupid is as stupid does! After reading this comment I see 4 individuals disagree with the comment. I am confused, are you stating it would be okay if a child life was taken due to the actions of these 3 individuals?
109 agree | 68 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
For all of you who look at animal abuse and animal cruelty and just ‘blow it off’ and wake you up to the connection between animal abuse and violence. It’s been a long known fact that many violent offenders get their start by abusing cats, dogs and other animals. Open your eyes and see that animal abuse is NOT something to just blow off! Many studies in psychology, sociology, and criminology during the last 25 years have demonstrated that violent offenders frequently have childhood and adolescent histories of animal cruelty. The FBI has recognized the connection since the 1970s, when its analysis of the lives of serial killers suggested that most had killed or tortured animals. Going to the zoo to taunt and god knows what else is a form of abuse.
94 agree | 196 disagree
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Examiner Reader BB said:
i've read soo much about this tragedy of this tiger, i just dont understand what those boys had done to her. i remember when i was yopunger we had a neighborhood german shepard dog whom i was playing with, every time he decided to leave i would call him back, this occured several times. he finally left and i stayed outside to play. he decided to return to attack me, he was crouched to jump me when my brother came out in time and threw a rock at him. now to attack me for that i can imagine what those boys did to that poor tiger. they must have done something hurtfull things to her. its a shame.
106 agree | 98 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
The true tragedy of this incident is that a beautiful endangered species is dead and two brain-dead idiots are going to be working the court system with a huge lawsuit against the zoo and the city. You can best believe if these fools never visited the zoo on December 25th, the tiger would still be around to enjoy, Mr. Souza Jr. would still be walking this earth, and the two surviving brothers would get themselves involved in some other incident involving law enforcement. It's their destiny in life.
112 agree | 92 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
From reading some of the comments I am amazed at how many people agree that it is socially acceptable to be drunk, high on drugs, damage public property and then not be accountable for your actions. Just remember your thoughts and words today as tomorrow either you, some in your family or a friend may be the next victim to undisciplined behavior.
93 agree | 103 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Ok, enough! When will charges be filed against the persons responsible for the killing of this animal? Why was the tiger killed instead of sedated? It is a sad, sad story that we remove these beautiful creatures from their natural habitats, contain them for our pleasure and as a result of people's irresponsible actions, they do what is natural to them to survive - and end up getting shot to death. Those persons responsible should face justice, although nothing will bring the beautiful creature back. Too bad I don't live in San Francisco, but to those who do - stand up for justice and the animals!
93 agree | 112 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
i feel sorry for the tiger.
114 agree | 108 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
As a zoo docent for big cats I can tell you that the tiger attack was brought on by the victims standing on the railing and yelling at the tiger. By doing so, they were trespassing in her territory and prompting her to go into protect/defense mode. If the victim Souza, Jr. had stayed behind the barrier, he would probably be alive today.
128 agree | 104 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
To: 5:55 PM MST on Fri., Jan. 18, 2008 - I have carefully read your statement and I would like to add this. The percentage of harm and deaths to innocent victims are caused by individuals that are either drunk and/or high on drugs vs. victims attacked by zoo wildlife.
109 agree | 97 disagree
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Brothers caused the incident said:
The bottom line is this wouldn't have happened if those idiots hadn't jumped the railing, screamed and yelled, threw rocks, and whatever else. They weren't going to be happy until they got that tiger upset. So at what point do the defenders of the brothers draw the line and hold them responsible? If it turns out that the brothers jumped into the tigers enclosure and pulled it's tail, is the zoo still responsible for what happens? So the zoo is responsible for complete morons who won't be happy until they find a way to get into an animals cage.
104 agree | 93 disagree
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Barb - Phoenix, AZ said:
The so-called victims have attorneys and no doubt will attempt to sue for a large sum of money. Now we learn that they admit to taunting the tiger and had alcohol and marijuana in their systems, one with twice the amount for a DUI. What song would they be singing if they never made it to the zoo that fateful day by causing an accident, killing one of them and an innocent person on the highway? The results would be the same...one of them dead along with an innocent. The result of what happened was because of drugs and alcohol and no sense, all of which do not deserve a monetary reward. It would be a travesty if the families receive millions, or even less, for something these young men set in motion by their choices before they encountered the tiger. People must learn to accept the consequences of their actions. We parents need to instill this in our children, therefore helping them to make better choices as they go through life.
125 agree | 93 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
You have an excellent point. They are ADULTS and that makes them even more dangerous. They should be charged with endangerment to protected species when the tiger was murdered.
111 agree | 114 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
If we just keep changing policies and not address the behavior we might as well just build mile high fences around every house in the US for protection against poor judgement. Parent need to be responsible and teach their children right and wrong, monitor their friends and protect them from themself.
128 agree | 110 disagree
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The tiger enclosure has been safe for 60+ years said:
Oh please, the tigers never escaped that enclosure before. It HAS been fine for 60+ years. If the tigers could get out, you betcha it would have been taken care of. And like we are supposed to believe ANYTHING that comes out of the mouths of those brothers or slime lawyer. Those brothers were so guilty they wouldn't even ID their dead "friend". They just let him lay there unidentified until the 26th.
134 agree | 113 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
I'll betcha they will think the next time they wanna tease a wild animal, I for one have no sympathy for the one that was killed, he got what he deserved.And the poor tiger was the one that got shot to death.
86 agree | 94 disagree
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Chompsky said:
"Eventually, unless something had been done about the inadequate grotto, this tiger would have gotten out" is speculation. You can also speculate that having 250 people at the zoo would have prevented the kids from behaving the way they did. And the only outcome that really needs to happen is a better enclosure and a change of policy at the zoo. This will happen regardless, even without 2 "street toughs" getting rich with their lawyer in the process.
141 agree | 111 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
RE: "5:54 PM MST on Fri., Jan. 18, 2008 re: "Tiger mauling: Whose story do you believe?" Chompsky I do not deny these three were / are street toughs and were stoned (well, at least one of them was). I actually wrote that it is unfortunate they have such flawed character, because this opens the door for a major distraction to the core essence of this outcome. In a way, it is probably fortunate that this happened when and how it did. Eventually, unless something had been done about the inadequate grotto, this tiger would have gotten out, even if it did not happen on Dec 25, 2007. When it did, the zoo might have had 250 instead of 25 people in it, and the result might have been far more gruesome.
129 agree | 105 disagree
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Carl said:
Aw I see their gulity because the media says their guilty...before SFPD has finished their investigation...before they have been arrested...before the courts have had an arraignmet or before any sentencing hearing. Wonderful American system of justice you have here. Civil or criminal? Just think if nothing happens either way. Wont you be disappointed.
107 agree | 105 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
To those who say they disagree with my "5:32 PM MST on Fri., Jan. 18, 2008" you are disagreeing with the facts. You need to familiarize yourselves with the geometry of the enclosure. It is a sunken grotto, with a 12.5ft vertical rise at its edge. There is only the slightest overhang at the ledge / lip of the grotto atop that rise. Between the lip and the sidewalk are a few feet - some short bamboo, then a 3 ft chain link fence. The blood was NOT down in the grotto proper. It was between the edge of the sidewalk and the lip of the grotto. No tiger should ever be outside the grotto, period. Sure, it was technically against the rules to be between the short fence and the lip. But, it is outside the grotto. If you disagree with this fact, then you disagree with reality.
137 agree | 90 disagree
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Chompsky said:
Drunk and high teenagers with police records taunting a tiger at the zoo is hardly a red herring. It's circumstantial. The zoo is negligent, but the kids' actions directly influenced what happened and should be considered.
131 agree | 112 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Re: "the enclosure was fine for 60+ years" - totally incorrect. In actuality, during the first 25 years of this enclosure, there were a number of escapes and near escapes, thankfully, when the zoo was after hours. A few minor improvements were made, the biggest one, filling the moat with water. This, while not fool proof, made it much harder for a cat to jump up to the ledge of the grotto. Later, someone decided to remove the water, a big error. Felines vary considerably in aggression. Tatiyana was by far one of the most if not the most aggressive cat ever at this zoo. She arrived in 2005. In 2006, she attacked a zoo keeper (another enclosure problem in another area of the grotto!). All tigers were sequestered from Dec 2006 until Sep 2007. And now, after 3 months back in the grotto, this happened. A very checkered past, in fact, for this grotto.
126 agree | 110 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
RE: "LARGE amount of blood INSIDE enclosure! " Wrong. The blood was in between a short chain link fence and the lip of the actual tiger grotto. The tiger first attacked one of the Dhaliwals, who was standing there. Even though it is bending the rules, people stand there to snap photos of the tigers down in the grotto all the time. It is quite unfortunate these men are street toughs, because their rough image is a red herring, which the zoo and City have exploited to the hilt, to turn the public against them. It's actually pretty sick.
96 agree | 123 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
When I want to take a photo of my dog, I do just like what these men did. They are definitely not the first to bend the rules in this manner. No matter what they did while standing in the bamboo between the short fence and the lip of the grotto, the facts remain. A proven aggressive tiger with a taste for human blood (tasted it on Dec 22, 2006, in attack on zoo keeper). A completely inadequate enclosure, made even worse by the dry moat. And, known previous escapes and near escapes, which, while not ending in maulings, were fair warnings.
123 agree | 114 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Cordoza and Geragos must feel the need for additional time in the spotlight. Fortunately for some attorneys, they don't need to know or care to know the validity of a case-just sue, sue, sue.
132 agree | 149 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
the zoo should bring wall up to standards, but for the family to sue them is preposterous, how about the zoo suing the family for the cost of the tiger and to replace him. as soon as I heard the ages, I felt that the teens involved were doing something wrong and sure enough, now the truth is out, they were drunk, on drugs and taunting the poor animal, anyone who taunts an animal should be fined heavily for doing so. taunting,etc is not a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!
138 agree | 106 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
In a strange way, I see many posters identifying with the tiger.
93 agree | 133 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
it seems the zoo may have been wrong in the security procedures,but the kids were very wrong,drinking,on drugs taunting,etc.did their parents ever teach them respect for people and animals?its sad that 1 young man and a tiger were all killed in this senseless teasing,in my view the boys should not get any money if thats what they are after,they started a situation that was out of control.
123 agree | 111 disagree
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LARGE amount of blood INSIDE enclosure! said:
The police say they found a large amount of blood inside the enclosure! What did those men do?!?! Did they jump all the way inside? How would a large amount of blood get INSIDE??? Did they hang their legs, then the tiger latched on to climb out? We may never know exactly what happened, but those men and one under 18 were up to no good for sure. That is why they went on Christmas day, so no would be around. They were seen harassing other animals too. Weirdo bully people who like to torment caged animals I guess!
129 agree | 100 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
This has NOTHING to do with what color, nationality or sex you may be. It is unfortunate when one is brought to task for an unwanted behavior to immediately call it racial. This has to do with respect for public property and wildlife. You are correct I may not know the person, but I do know the behavior that is unacceptable in society. I raised two boys who were brought up to respect and judge people not by color, but by what type of person they were. They were taught as children to be gentle to animals. They were taught to own up to their mistakes and accept the consequences.
85 agree | 111 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
WOW 23 years old and acting like that. Yelling, throwing things, and jumping the rails. That is beyond old enough to know better, besides for breaking the law. Now look at what has happened. We should look further at these men and see who we are dealing with. Looks like they are real budding criminals without respect for anyone.
82 agree | 119 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
I wonder what the public response would be if it was the life of a child taken by the stupid actions of these teens instead of the tiger. Stupid is as stupid does!
148 agree | 138 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Yes, it explains why they weren't taken more seriously. Under the influence AND screaming insults/profanity. But apparently, this is how they communicate with people/animals. They think they should be able to act however they please, with no consequences for their actions.
144 agree | 129 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Knowing now that those boys were under the influence explaines why the 911 people thought they were mental cases when they called for help.
116 agree | 89 disagree
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Thanks for ruining the view punks said:
I totally agree with Goo. Now (if the zoo survives this ridiculous lawsuit and doesn't lose accreditation)everyone has to view the poor tigers through a plastic wall. No more beautiful photos I guess. Why is it idiots inevitably come along and always have to ruin everything for everyone. And they always want money, too.
145 agree | 101 disagree
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the enclosure was fine for 60+ years said:
The zoo was built in 1940. It has been fine. Can you imagine what those brothers must have done to actually get the tiger SO enraged that it was determined to get out, one way or another. The brothers did more than break into the enclosure and scream. They threw big azz rocks, too. OBVIOUSLY. Well, they are admitting to some of their lies. More lies will be seen in the future.
145 agree | 125 disagree
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Ze Piou said:
Okay, the wall was to low. But too low for what? Who said that with a 4feet higher wall the tiger wouldn't have able to jump over? This so a scam. And by the way, it's a federal felony to taunt endangered species wherevere they are (wild or zoos). Period.
164 agree | 115 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
I believe the zoo's efforts are entirely to protect themselves politically and financially. This is why they immediately hired a PR firm. Instead, zoo administrators should be interested in getting at the truth. Putting blame on others is incorrect in the long run. Zoos have a public responsibility to do protect their patrons regardless of the behavior of their paying public. I will never take my family to this zoo. Not because of the incident, but rather because of the irresponsible behavior of the SF Zoo.
131 agree | 117 disagree
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taunting is a misdemeanor, not 'normal behavior' said:
OMG! I can't believe the brother defenders are now trying to sell this idea that taunting animals is "normal", now that their BS lies are being exposed. Wake up people, taunting is a crime. It's normal now to jump the railing, scream, and throw rocks??
146 agree | 104 disagree
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Rachael said:
That the boys taunted the animal seems abundantly clear. But who would honestly expect this to happen? Can you imagine the terror they must have experienced at that moment? They were drunk and high--- unfortunate, yes, but human too. So while I think any lawsuit against the zoo might be frivolous, you still have to feel for these guys despite their attitude. It's never appropriate to torment an animal, particularly a dangerous animal in an enclosure, but is it "fair" that they learned this the hard way? I don't want to see the zoo threatened by this but I hope they are taking a moment to really examine their external structures as well as internal. Everyone comes out of this situation looking like a loser. I hope everyone who is outraged by this incident is willing to help a little by either donating or patronizing the zoo- it can only get better with our help!
125 agree | 138 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
My daughter and I were at the zoo on Christmas and we saw these "kids" taunting other animals. We encountered these cretins near the giraffes. Their behavior really stood out because there were mostly families there that day. They were acting in an obnoxious manner. I am not surprised they taunted the tigers. I am not surprised the tiger retaliated. I know many parents felt the way the tiger did and wanted to have them removed from the zoo. It is just a shame that it came to that.
88 agree | 89 disagree
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Goo Reader said:
... and will include glass portals for visitors to view the cats. Oh great, unless it's cleaned like they do at the Mirage Hotel and Casino, how gross, and dirty. Theses stupid idiot brothers ruined viewing tigers alnatural.
127 agree | 122 disagree
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