The Judiciary Annex - Ohio
The Supreme Court in Ohio ruled Wednesday, June 2, that visual estimates on speed can be used without any "proof" such as radar guns - to write speeding tickets.
So, to be clear on this let's look at the definitions of both words. Visual - done, maintained, or executed by sight only. Estimates - to calculate approximately.
As long as the Ohio police officer has been "trained" in visual estimates - or my definition - "guessing" you can be ticketed for speeding - without any "real proof."
This has got to be the most asinine ruling I have ever heard. This kind of takes away from the judicial saying "Everyone is considered innocent until proven guilty." How in the world can you "prove" a guess?
Ohio has always been ridiculous in the sense of writing speeding tickets. I was once ticketed while driving an ambulance on a emergency call for speeding - 62mph in a 55mph - with my lights and sirens on, and the ticket stood good because I had to pay it.
The court's 5-1 decision says independent verification of a driver's speed is not necessary.
The Reason:
The court upheld a lower court's ruling against a driver who challenged a speeding conviction that had been based on testimony from police officer in Copley, 25 miles south of Cleveland. The officer said it appeared to him that the man was driving too fast.
Comments
What kind of hillbilly law is this? "Well, I recon he was drivin a mite too fast".
its obvious those 5 justices are morons...
What else would you expect from the state that gave the nation the Buckeyes?
welcome to a new era of the united states of america, its called police states.were cameras will watch everything and police can do what ever they feel like.and we wonder why more police are being shot at now then ever.GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
With the economy the way it is they are looking to make more MONEY!
one of the first things we learned in drivers ed. was that you can't be a good judge of speed just by looking. everyone sees things different. since you couldn't pay me to go to ohio anyway, it won't make much difference to me. sounds more like revenue enhancement than ANY thing else. what do you call a lawyer with an I.Q. below 70?....(ans:your honor)
According to the law, the only vehicle permitted to drive above the posted speed limit and not obey traffic signs is (believe it or not) a U.S. Postal Service Vehicle. I learned this while taking a course to teach Defensive Driving given by the National Safety Council in Ohio. I'm not saying that I agree with it but that's just the way it is!
most cops do what ever they want anyway, there seems to be a general feeling of being above the law
Wow, so if your ex is a cop with a grudge, you'd better watch out! You might have just been going 85 in a 40 zone and end up in the county jail. Excellent.
I am a police officer (not in Ohio)...and am appauled by the ruling. Rulings like this and officers that would even write tickets like that are the reason why my profession's credability is slowly being erroded. Shame on the court and the officer. The only way I would ever write a ticket for something like that is if it was very obvious, like 50+ in a residential 25 zone or something similar. If that is not the case for this incident (I do not know the particulars of this case)shame on them!
your professions credability erroded when they changed the testing criteria way back when...
Your credibility eroded when you tried to spell credibility and appalled. Any officer who spends more than a week running radar can visually estimate vehicle speed within three MPH. Read the text of the court decision before you squall "shame" like some snot-nosed anarchist protester.
Many years ago I was a Police Officer in New Jersey. I was trained in radar operation. The training was that a visual observation was needed to corroborate the radar reading. In other words, a double safety. If you saw someone flying through the traffic you could stop them, but you needed to quote a speed the offender was going. In cases of the guy flying summons were given out for careless or reckless driving instead since it was wasier to prove. I am glad I dont live or drive through Ohio.
Ohio Cop calls in to dispatch:
<Ohio Cop> I just pulled over some guy for speeding and I need assistance determining how fast they were going.
<Dispatch> Where are you located?
<Ohio Cop>
"I'm on a road, looks to be asphalt--aw jeez, trees, shrubs--uh, I'm directly under the earth's Sun...now."
Its no hillbilly law. WV, KY, TN are still using laser/radar. If OH can't afford to buy or recalibrate their existing radar guns, why not use a stopwatch and measured mile? Cops can make bad judgement calls to. Unbelievable this would hold up.
A mockery of the rights of Americans and the constitution. It's now guilty until proven innocent. Or guilty with no proof needed is probably more accurate. The legal system run out of control.
This has got to be one of the most moronic things I have ever heard of. Good for the one and shame on the five. Bad Judges, bad! With good knowledge I GUESSTIMATE some needs to roll up the news paper and educate the bad dogs.
Anybody interested in challenging this decision? if so let me know and we in Ohio can start to get this garbage taken off. while the system is crazy, it often has to take a crazy individual to come against nonsense.
Everyone wants to harp on Arizona and what it has done.... This is crazy...... Don't go to or through Ohio.... Think anyone will change their plans.....
the truth to the matter nine times out of ten when an officer pulls you over for speeding using a laser it is bogus. The accuracy of police radar is very weak. It can not pick out one car in rush hour traffic out of 200 coming at it. The police just want you to think it is accurate. I hunt sometimes using a laser scope. You can miss a shot this way as well as any other method of scopes made. I went to court for speeding and the officer produced a picture of a tree standing still and it was supposed to be me doing 50 in a 35. Go to court on every ticket most traffic officers are the crookedest of all the officers on any police force. They hide while issuing tickets behind signs and trees. The law in every state is clear the traffic officer should be visibly seen and wearing a orange vest so they can be spotted. They can not deceptively hide and give tickets and laser is supposed to have a picture of the car and license plate when in court. If they do not then they do not have a case in
this is the stupidest ruling i have ever heard. it makes me scared and sad. Where is the state of our nation going? i already do not trust the police-they act above the law and don't give a damn about anyone except themselves. so now just give them more power to abuse more people. just great. i will never go to ohio-not that i prob ever would have but i sure as hell am not going now!!
i have been a police officer in nebraska since 1989 and have been to basic radar and also the recertification classes. in our town, i often have ride-a-longs with me and show them radar in action. many are amazed my visual estimates are within a few mph, if not right on, the radar indicated speed of an offender so an "estimate" can be correct. my personal belief is there should still be radar or some other proof to back up a speeding citation
you will not need to challenge this idiots law it will be overturned by the first paid attorney that handles a traffic case.I do not care who this judge thinks he is judges can not make your their own laws. I think this judge probably made a career ending decision. He will be gone before the ink dries that he used to sign the paperwork.
cops are robots anyway.... I live in Vegas and if a motorcycle cop here pulls you over here, you get a ticket no matter what. Now you can plead not guilty and they will make it a $500 parking ticket, but none the less you will get a ticket. But plead not guilty and the city attorney will always reduce it because it's only about the money. Now you pay tickety busters $50 and they will go to court for you and you just pay the "parking ticket" fine. No points off your license or increased insurance, but the city gets their dough. Even a DUI can be made into a parking ticket. Now thats funny.
Wat a bs... Where are we heading?
You have to be joking. This is just another example of Police Officers getting a free hand to do anything and the court system will stand up and back them. I am a retried police office and I would never even think about stopping or writting a ticket until I had proof. This law is just another law that is passed that takes the freemdom away from the public. The Public that pays the officers and the members of court. Remeber the old saying, I will make the streets safer...Hilter said it
chuck you are nuts postal vehicles have to obey even stricter rules than the ones posted. Do you realize if what you say was true how many of us would have dead children and pets due to the postal service. Lay off the dope it is screwing up your mind.
I totally agree with the ruling, drunks, croch rocket sholder riders and speeders are all killers and the police need every advantage!!
Is even opne person who posts here qualified to make your opinions? did any of you go to law school? are any of you attorneys? My guess is no. that's why your comments are irrelevant. Is an Officer saying the vehicle went 62 in 55 any different than a witness saying that a car ran through a red light? Both are eyewitness and both are subject to 6th amendment scrutiny. Learn your laws before you complain about them people. At least the one post about radar guns being ineffective in the 1st place was right on the mark. The unedcuated masses will always complain about the laws they are too ignorant to understand. May God save you from yourselves- and keep your dumb butts off the road when I am on it!
This is inviting the defence to bring in all kinds of oddites to the the courtroom, such as to the the deminer of the cop. How many tickets had he written that day prior the stop; did he get into a fight with the spouse recently; etc, etc. If there is going to arbitrary evidence there need to be proof that the cop isn't just writing tickes cause he's P.O'ed at the world.
This has to be the most idiotic ruling in the modern era! The ruling was 5-1; what were the four ruling in favor thinking about??!! If they can be complete idiots ruling in favor of this law, imagine what you can expect when they are ruling about someone's life!?
did you serve in vietnam...looking for a friend from 1970
This actually could end up being a good thing for some, bad for others. For those that were blatently speeding the punishment will be bad either way. For those that get written up for somewhere between 5-10 mph over this could be a godsend. In court it could be very easy to get a cop to admit there is a slight chance that they estimated incorrectly, thus throwing out the ticket....
maybe its a silver lining
this has to be the dumbest thing i have ever heard of as if the cops dont take enough advantage of the power they are given. you might as well give them the right to shoot some one just because they dont like the way they look. y have a law at all. do we have a bunch of dumbasses up at the supreme court
atty at law - I would expect nothing more from you other than the pompous arrogant statement that you posted. It's people like you that have screwed the country up like it is. The whole system is a complete mess because of individuals, such as yourself, justifying and finding "loopholes" to manipulate things to the way they want them. Sure it can become a "law" but where does it make it right?
Belittle me as you wish as I'm sure you will do because you "think" you're better than I and smarter as you went to your beloved "law school".
I hope that lawyer who condones this new law is a victim of it. And, when this law is stretched to include police allowed to enter any houses and homes because they look suspicious to them, we are all gonna say...how did we allow this??
hey 'attny at law'!
as if, you and others of your racket are not prone to stupidity, ill judgement, and out right greed. here in is the real problem, you think everyone who has not passed the bar are less intelligent than you. you lie, you cover up, you fabricate, all to make your name and pockets deeper. Like what you say here matters, do not forget that to us real people you are a member of the lowest estate ... the legal one.
jnb
Right, cops are getting shot because people don't like getting speeding tickets. Kelly you're an idiot. You people shouldn't act like so self-righteous. I'm sure the ticket in question was issued for an obvious offense, i.e. driving much faster than the limit, not for 10 or 15 over. Most citizens complain about people speeding through their neighborhood where their kids are playing. Do they have radar? No, but it's easy to pick out someone who is driving much too fast. Try capitalizing United States of America.
I live in Denver and there are several high profile attorneys here that would chew this judge up and spit him out. This will be the shortest lived law of all times. Why do you think that all police departments no longer use stop watches to calculate speed? That is because there is no proof to the offense other than an officers word. In this day and age an officers word is a s good as mine is. There is a case here in Denver right now where an on duty state patrol officer was pulled over by a sheriff for dui. He was pulled over in his police vehicle running people of the road. There are bad cops and judges in every city.
Just another example of how rights of citizens are slowly being taken away as we gradually become a country more like a police state. My wifes uncle is a District Court Judge here in Minnesota. He even comments how he is appauled at the Gestapo like attitude and power hungry mentailty of a lot of law enforcement officals and departments he deals with.
Just stay out of OHIO. I think the kentuckians have taken it over anyway. What a bunch of ________ fill in the blanks.
Is it shocking how dramatically crime has risen. It's because people like you folks who do not support police. If you make it easy for criminals to get away with breaking the law, they will! I'm not talking about speeders here and I'm not claiming that all cops are fair, but the talk I'm hearing sounds like "profiling" all police officers.
the supreme court has ruled that cops can meet their "quotos" anyway they want. I am so tired of the cops beating on people, making poor judgement calls, etc. that I want to just puke. Now their empowered to harass you without any justification besides, "he looked like he was speeding"
The courts will say, "Ignorance o fthe law is no excuse". What about this one, "Ignorance of the people is no excuse".
hey Thorne if the shoe fits wear it if not read on. I was only referring to the bad judges and bad cops. However if I struck a nerve it must have been a guilty nerve. This would not bother anybody with nothing to hide. That is GOOD OFFICER 101. There must be something in your past wanting to come out.
Oh I forgot one thing, Lebrons a free agent so they need the money to try and keep him from leaving OHIO. Dont give me that the cops have a rough way to go bullcrap. I see them everyday speeding down the road, should I pull them over and tell them they are getting a speeding ticket because I thought they was speeding ? PLEASE!!! Law enforcement at its best. (LOL) Only in Ohio!!
This is to atty at laws comments: How can you compare seeing someone running a red light and GUESSING someones speed. It doesn't matter how much schooling, training or anything else for that matter to be able to GUESS anything. Thats why its called a GUESS. So I "guess" in court "shadow of a doubt" doesn't count anymore, at least thats what this country is coming to. From guessing ones speed, to the way someone looks, their car is old and rusted must mean that they are doing something wrong and should be punished. Use your brain before you make DUMBASS comments like that. No one can guess that unless, they are doing 150mph and even then NO PROOF. Just one more way for the state to take money from hard working people.
support is one thing keeping us safe is another we shouldnt have to support the law enforcement just so they'll do their job fairly thats a load of bullshit and you know it
Hey Sheldog have you not figured it out that guy is no attorney. He is a hot head posting on a spool just like the rest of us. Attorneys do not waste their time on sites like this. They are in court suing people. If this one is not in court at this time of day, than he is not a very good attorney.
att at law
your an idiot and must not get any repeat customers
If you compare running a red light and speeding
any one with sight can see if a light is red and someone did not stop but just sight can't calculate speed if I am going 60 in a 55 but get a ticket for 70 then I'm not guilty as charged
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