Christine Shreeve Hubbs case: Is there a double standard for the statutory rape of boys? (pictures, video)
If you look in the comments section of the Examiner.com articles on the Christine Shreeve Hubbs case, you will find a lot of comments from men saying that the two 14 year old boys with whom she had sex are not victims.
Hubbs is the Livermore, California, 42-year-old mother of three who was arrested last week for having sex with two boys under the age of 15. Neighborhood kids called Hubbs the "Hummer mom" because she often gave rides to kids in her 2006 black Hummer.
Here are excerpts from some of the comments people wrote:
“Where in the heck were women like her when I was young? man I missed out on lots of stuff. no crime committed here”
“Rape, eh? Anybody who thinks the boys didn't enjoy every minute of it can line up on the left”
"...Seriously, where was this woman when I was growing up?"
"I was a 15 year old guy once and grew up among many other 15 year olds. Teen boys of this age have three things on their mind, sex, sex and sex! We dream of sex with girls our age, older girls, college girls, girls on TV, teachers, ladies in line at the store, even inanimate objects and yes even the neighbors and your friends hot moms. It's not weird, we are hard wired that way, our hormones are running wild and screaming out of control. Now, this mom has some really serious issues and needs psychological help but the alleged sexually related trauma is just not there. You can't compare girls and boys at this age. It's apples and oranges, Mars and Venus. The trauma of going public by the parents will be much greater than the inappropriate acts by this woman!!! As a parent the solution to this would have been to put an end the behavior immediately, privately confront the husband so he can do what he needs to handle his family's situation and let my son get on with life! "
What do the experts think?
Syndicated national radio talk show host Dr. Dean Edell weighed in on the question during his show on Wednesday, August 11.
When asked about the Hubbs case, Edell cited a study that was published 10-15 years ago that found that the double standard may have some validity. (The show is broadcast locally in the San Francisco Bay Area on KGO 810 AM 1-2 pm.)
Edell said the study found that men who reflected on having sex with an older woman while they were underage almost universally regarded the experience as positive, while women who had sex with an older man almost universally regarded the experience as negative.
Edell said that he didn’t recall which medical journal published the study, but believed it may have been the Archives of Human Sexuality.
An ABC News story in 2008 explored the double standard issue. Reporter John Stossel noted that a plot line in the ABC show Desperate Housewives was about a married woman who was having an affair with a high school boy. The teenager, played by Jesse Metcalfe, was portrayed as lucky and the older woman, played by Eva Longoria, was not seen as a predator. Comedy Central’s South Park ran an episode in which an elementary school boy had sex with an attractive teacher. A cop jokes, “"The crime is she isn't doing it with me!"
ABC reports that researchers say that although most boys regard sex with older women as positive, they are more likely to have emotional and sexual problem later.
New York psychologist Dr. Richard Garner, who treats sexual abuse victims, told ABC, “They may drink a lot, they may get into drugs, they may start seeing prostitutes, they may gamble … they may be sexually dysfunctional. A whole string of things like that, none of which seem in their own mind to be related to the idea that they were sexual victims, which is very hard for a boy to say he was."
Garner believes that sex with an adult may be just as bad for boys as girls but that boys are less likely to admit that they were victimized.
Hubbs back in court
Christine Shreeve Hubbs will be in court next on Monday, August 16 to enter a plea. As previously reported, Hubbs broke down in tears during her last court appearance on Monday August 9. She did not enter a plea. (Video of that court apperance here. ) The arraignment was postponed until next week. Hubbs' husband, prominent dentist Tim Hubbs, attended the court proceeding but he did not speak to reporters.
The case first came to the attention of Livermore police on July 27 after finding a nude photo of Hubbs on one of the boys' cell phone. The boy said he first began having sex with Hubbs in December 2008 when he was 14. During their investigation, police say they learned of a second victim who is now 14, who began having sex with Hubbs in December 2009 and it continued through last month. Police said Hubbs had sex with the boys in her Hummer and in hotel rooms in various locations in Livermore and Alameda County.
See photos in slideshow below.
Related articles:
Video: Livermore 'Hummer mom,' Christine Shreeve Hubbs, charged with rape of boys, cries in court
Video: 'Hummer mom,' Christine Shreeve Hubbs, facing rape charges for alleged sex with boys
Livermore, California woman, Christine Shreeve Hubbs, charged with having sex with boys (photo)
Comments
It sounds as though these people making these comments do not understand the difference between the charges of "Rape" and "Statutory Rape." Hubbs is being charged with Statutory Rape because she had sex with minor children who are under the age of statutory consent. Consent is not the real issue here. "Statutory" is the real issue. These boys were not old enough to legally consent to having sex with an adult. If the commentors really feel that this should not be considered a crime, they should work towards having the legal age of consent lowered. That way, any predatory adult out there who has sex with any child over the age of say, 12, would not be doing anything wrong. Personally, I dread that day ever happening.
Lisa, I think you are right about lower the age. BUT these are young men, young men at this age are doing everything to satifiy their sexual desires. I am sure they loved every moment of it. It isn't like Christine made them do these acts.. I am sure they just came back wanting more. I would like to question the parenting skills of these young men. Why they do not have control over their boys. These boys parents don't show good guardianship to their boys.
I am sure you're an advocate for having the age of consent lowered then MOTHER? You comment shows very little respect for boys and their parents which in my opinion is has all the hallmarks of the thoughts of a sexual PREDATOR. MOTHER? Who do you think are fooling?
Hey Mother When a Male teacher gets involved with a 14 or 15 yr old female student which you see all the time do you say the same thing thae her parents arent showing good guardianship over their girls. Give me a break. Did the boys enjoy it, YES! But the fact that she would do such a thing there is something wrong with her and she should be punished for it.
The real victims here are her children and her husband they have to walk back into school and around town with that humiliation of being teased by what she has down. Once she goes to jail, that family has to move out of state to have any chance to have a normal life again. They have to go through life knowing what they did and never understanding why she would do such a thing
I think it gets a little ridiculous at times. Has anyone heard of Boystown. Alot of fathers and Grandfathers took their children there. And people didn't think anything about it. 14 year old young men, hell wasn't L. Lynn already married by this age. But this country continues to fall apart because it always has to be somebody eles' fault. Let the young men stand up and be responsible. The did what they did because that is what they wanted. Responsibility doesn't start at 18, decision making is something that you as a parent are suppose to be teaching and that is something that is done from the time you slap their hand and tell them NO. But in this country to many people want to baby them. Guardianship has nothing to do with this. You can't be with a 14 yr old all the time male or female. And if this is the worst thing that happens to these boys they have been Blessed.
" Let the young men stand up and be responsible. "
Hey, these aren't young men. Talk about someone standingh up and being responsible - why aren't you saying that this GROWN WOMAN stand up and take responsibility. Sounds like you want to "slap" this predator's "hand" and let it go at that. These kids did nothing wriong; they are victims of a disgusting crime.
She's a sexual predator who held all the power. She should be prosecuted for her crimes, crying isn't good enough. Most predators will tell you they couldn't control their impulses, but does that make them any less guilty?
There are most likely several other victims in the immediate area, reinforcing the "hummer mom" title... eg., she's got a reputation.
"Hummer Mom" should be investigated as a serial offender.
everybody is jumping to conclusions we still dont have all the facts she has been charged not convited so hold your bashing toung till we get the hole story.
For parents who wish to protect their children & teenagers from being sexually exploited by women such as Christine Shreeve Hubbs a new book has recently being released entitled, "Female Sexual Predators Understanding Them to Protect Our Children and Youths" by Karen A. Duncan
“Rape, eh? Anybody who thinks the boys didn't enjoy every minute of it can line up on the left”
Because I wrote and stand by it.
Within most of your lifetimes, the 70's, Europe used to have an age of consent that was something like 10 or 12. Puberty. Then Christianity attacked that and the age has been raised up to "American" standards.
The only thing that has really changed is it drove everybody underground where there is ZERO regulation.
Sex with minors, despite what you think of it, is something that is a part of the human psyche. All the religions and laws that have attempted to change that over the centuries have been total failures.
Where to go from here?
Until you look at this realistically instead of down your religious noses, you're generating more victims than need be.
It's time to change the laws. Not to give you permission. But to remove the hysteria and boost sex education where it's needed most.
x
"Rape, eh? Anybody who thinks the boys didn't enjoy every minute of it can line up on the left”
Because I wrote and stand by it."
So you have just labeled yourself then. This is just the female version of NAMBLA. And you think that's just fine. What else should the police know about you?
We should keep in mind that there is a difference between a boy saying that sex with an older woman was a positive experience versus the boy actually thinking that. In many of the cases reported in the news the boys suffer real psychological trauma, ranging from failing in school to withdrawing from friends and family to experiencing PTSD.
Male victims of female abuse are pressured by society to brush off the experiences and view any sex with women as "good." Female victims can state that they did not like or want the sex. That double standard likely results in boys reporting that they think the sex is positive. However, a few studies show that abuse by women, particularly by mothers, has a greater negative impact on victims. Victims of female abuse are more likely to abuse drugs, engage in risky behavior, end up in abusive relationships, and commit suicide. So female abuse is likely not as harmless as people think. It is simply that male victims pretend not to be hurt.
AGREED LISA
I've been waiting for someone to come forward about this subject.I agree, absolutely that these boys are indeed NOT victims. Do I agree with the actions that Christine is accused of? NO. Do I find it completely nauseating and appalling? You bet. But for people to feel sorry for these boys and call them victims makes me feel the same way. I'll just bet they were high-fiving each other minutes after it happened. That's how I feel, as a 42 year-old female. If those families end up filing a civil suit against her, then THEY are the ones who should be in the spotlight. We live in a society that is "so concerned" about what kind of messages we send to teens everywhere by our actions. Well, what message would we be sending to these victims if there WERE a lawsuit? Teens would say, "Hey, let's go sleep with a cougar, and then we can sue to get money because society as well as the law is on our side! We can't lose!" The parents need to take a closer look at these "victims".
"just bet they were high-fiving each other minutes after it happened."
And that makes it alright? These are children. They don't have good judgement when it comes to this crime. That's why there are laws to protect them. You would probably be calling for a hanging if it was a man.
"That's how I feel, as a 42 year-old female. "
Then you are not safe to be around young boys either.
This is directed to "She manipulated them". You don't even know her. But I do. She's not vicious, or conniving, at best maybe she has a sexual addiction. It doesn't mean it's acceptable for possibly doing these things she's accused of. The Internet has given society a chance, more than ever, to be vocal about how we feel, and that can be a good thing. But your statement is just cruel. You are basing your opinions on things you've heard through the media. They don't always get every detail right. And for someone who has never spent time with this woman, you've got some pretty harsh opinions. I'll just bet you read the Enquirer.
She's a predator. Period. And you are defending her. That makes you just as bad.
The very fact that these boys have no idea that they were taken advantage of by an extremely manipulative woman old enough to be their mother is proof that they were unable to give any sort of reasonable or legal consent. Seems to me that it is the adults here and not the children that need "sex education". What a sorry, truly selfish woman. It is too bad she wasn't "slapped and sterilized" before the abuse of these young boys happened as her own children will have to live with the consequences which may very be manifested in their own behavior in the future.
I'm 16, and this wouldn't be a problem for any other male teen. My friends and I agree this would be sweet
My name is Sam Ferris, I'm a registered sex offender (consentual sex with a 15 and 17 year old in 1984). My bail wasn't even $15,000. I served 3 months in jail for 6 or so charges. I challenged the laws but lost. http://openjurist.org/891/f2d/715. More info about me at samdeathwalker.com.
Lets see the "poor victims", both 13 or 14, were victimized by her once; then they went back to her again for more sex and more money, then went back again for more sex (and some oral copulation) and more money, and then went back again and again, like 30 times each....
The victim here is the taxpayer. In San Jose, police officers earn well over 4 million dollars of taxpayer money over a 30 year career and 90 percent pension (one guy got one half million in unused vacation pay). Basically everyone involved in this prosecution is going to make millions from you and me. We need to focus our money on cases where the victim is actually a victim and not cases like this where there is no harm whatsoever.
The law is wrong and needs change.
What have so much extra money that we want to work to pay more taxes to arrest and send people to prison who are doing no harm to anyone? The 13 year olds have a right to have sex with whomever they choose and not to have law enforcement or you or me put a gun to their head and tell them who they can or can't have sex with.
If we all don't have the right to do as we please when we harm no one else then what rights do we have?
As to violence lets see what law enforcement does to the 13 year olds if they change their story or refuse to testify.
The bottom line is that although the state has a compelling interest to protect minors from HARM the state has no compelling interest to protect minors from BENIFIT.
Sam Ferris says: In reply to some of the comments. Offering money to someone for sex is not "manipulation", else everyone who works for someone else is being manipulated. The fact that she gained form the relationship does not mean the 13 year olds lost. I offer money to Safeway to sell me food, did I manipulate them? I gained food, they gained money, we both gained.
As to morality:
God impregnated the Virgin Mary at 13-15
The God of Islam married Aisha at six and consummated at nine
Today The Statutory Rape age in the Vatican State is 12, and is 14 in France, Spain and China.
Studies may show that "abuse", where the 13 year old male is used by someone in authority or is lied to or somehow threatened where he did not have complete freedom of choice, is harmful, as it is.
I would like to read a single blind reputable study where 13 year old males who are paid for sex with older females have any negative outcome. Do you have such a link?
I find it funny that the reporter goes back and gets pictures from college to help pump up the drama.
when i was 13-15 my mother`s best friend had a son my age and his name was Paul,i would spend most of my summers in their home 19 miles away from my home town,she was an abused woman from her late husband and she was affraid of just about anyone that walked next to her with out her knowing the person..yes it was that bad.
She lived with her two teen boys and a BIG dog.
Anyways back in the days of the 70`s we would stay up and watch ''Bob Wilkins Creature Features" and by the time movie number one was over her two boys where a sleep.
She would love to drink Red Merlo wine and she would get tipsy and then things would change...to make a long story short she was a lonelly and sad woman,and not bad for late 30`s.
I never told my mother and i keeped goin there for summer for 3 yrs..till her boys got into some trouble and she moved to Florida. i will say now that i`m 45 of age still to this day i do not feal MOLESTED,nor damaged by our late night showers and what nots that we did.
I feel that these boys will look back and smile one day...God knows i do.
Did i get an education at 13? Oh yes and it changed my life,not hurt it..but it`s my life after all.
This sounds like a woman that is completely out of control. I fee sorry for her husband and kids who have to pay for her actions as well. But if justice is truly blind, then she will get the same penalties as if it were a man commiting the same crimes.
Her acts were very self destructive and danerous, encouraging the misuse of an Airsoft or BB gun could have caused serious and permanent injury to others. You can find a lot of good information on Airsoft safety by searching google for Airsplat.
This one of many cases in Livermore Ca that people are unawear of,there is a weapon of mass distruction that the police hear in livermore are awear of the weapon is THE VOICE OF GOD WEAPON RETURNS,From the sandia lab,Before you judge read up on this,see what they have been doing to humane beings.
Our society definitely sends mixed messages about this subject. During my teenage years there was a movie called The Summer of 42, about this very situation. I don't think there was quite the age difference, but still an older women and a teenage boy. Not sure how all parties in this Hubbs case will be affected long term, but do have some compassion for Mr Hubbs and his children.
We live in a society that is overly sex conscious, which is a vast understatement. What people need is love, not sex, but they aren't able to find one without the other. That poor woman is a victim as well, try to see that.
I have to believe (whether I love this woman or not), that her husband wasn't getting the job done (or she was sick of him); that if it was an older man with young teenage girls, his sentence would have been 2 or 3 times as long; that human nature and human sexuality dictated both her behavior and the boys behavior; that it wouldn't' necessarily be wrong if it weren't for the fact that she is married and has kids; that the boys definitely have some responsibility and culpability, no matter if they're not of legal age. Both parties were living out their sexual fantasies in a way, and that is human nature.
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