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A seminary course entitled "Pastoral Counseling" became the launching pad for a life-long counseling career. Phil then earned his MS in community college counseling. After graduating, he was hired by Tacoma Community College and became a tenured faculty member there for 31 years. During those years, he earned a second master's degree, in marriage and family therapy, at Pacific Lutheran University. This enabled him to enter a part time private practice working with individuals, couples and families. He now works with DV offenders and victims in a non-profit agency.