Over the next week, Maryland's contentious budget battles will have some competition in the acrimony department as foes of illegal immigration do battle with support groups like CASA de Maryland and the National Capital Immigrant Coalition.
At stake are bills dealing with the reporting requirements for detained criminal suspects and convicted prisoners already in the penal system related to their immigration status, broadening the scope of local law enforcement to enforce federal immigration laws similar to the 287(g) program already in use by Frederick County, an effort to codify into law that non-citizens aren't permitted to be registered as part of so-called “motor voter” registration, and English-only laws for both Baltimore and Harford counties.
These bills and other similar legislation have been introduced by General Assembly Republicans to address Maryland's reputation as a “sanctuary state” friendly to undocumented workers. In these trying budget times, proponents point to a report which claims that illegal immigrants cost the state $1.4 billion per year. On the other hand, CASA de Maryland actively seeks to employ low- and semi-skilled immigrant workers, placing them in the position of losing some part of their available workforce if stricter laws and regulations are passed by the General Assembly.
Showing the new emphasis on the problem, the majority of bills on the legislative slate followed by the anti-illegal immigration group Help Save Maryland are newly introduced this year, with only a couple holdovers from previous sessions. None of those bills had made it through committee, but with new rules allowing more public scrutiny of committee votes and the fact this is an election year, the procedure for majority Democrats who tend to take the side of undocumented workers and who control committee agendas may be to bury these bills in their desk drawers for the remainder of the session after the hearings.
Changing that fate will be a stern test of the newly empowered anti-illegal immigration lobby, but they're counting on participation from social networking and other sources to get the job done. We can expect some pitched battles and anger from both sides as these hearings take place over the next few days.
Comments
There should be no debate about how to handle the presence of illegal aliens in the state of Maryland. Economic problems notwithstanding, they should be treated as unwelcome, rounded up and deported along with their advocates. Enough is enough!
The Federal Government is encouraging illegal aliens to come and steal jobs, by studiously avoiding enforcement of immigration laws. Maryland must protect it's own or become California. It's the people's call, but take a close look at California before you vote.
Why only focus on the Casa side of the pro-immigration argument? There's a whole other angle to it, namely the free people and free markets position held by people like Marc and I.
Likewise, I think the article would have benefited greatly from acknowledging most of the groups pushing the bills in question are not merely anti-illegal immigration but are in fact opposed to immigration itself, regardless of legal status.
I don't see how you can fully paint the picture of the immigration debate when it's portrayed as people opposed to illegal immigration and Casa de Maryland.
Undocumented workers may cause some problems, but the problems caused by trying to round them up and deport them are far more serious. National ID, anyone? The very fact that people who say they support limited government and free markets turn around and say that the government should step in to prevent a willing employer from hiring a willing worker is amazing. Ranger01's comments about wanting to deport anyone who disagrees with him on this issue illustrates that those who think this way don't really believe in the notions of liberty that animated our Founding Fathers.
GOP legislators who are pushing these bills are pushing the state GOP into further irrelevancy. Both Latinos and more libertarian-minded voters won't support a party whose main goal is to bash immigrants.
Illegal aliens are destroying this Country, and one would have to be almost blind not to see this. How much longer do we have to support these illegal aliens? How much longer do we have to school their illegal alien children? How much longer are we going to let them have our jobs? How much longer are we going to put up with all the crime, stolen identities, forged documents, fake green cards? How much longer are we going to allow these illegal aliens to send money out of this Country and bring our Country down? Oh, amnesty will correct all this. WRONG! Nothing will change except we wouldn't be able to call them illegal aliens any more. Let's get rid of these illegal aliens! Let's get them back to their own Country where they belong! Maryland, get a State Illegal Immigration Law like Arizona has.
"Free people and free markets" as described by Marc and Kevin only lead to illegal aliens using my schools, hospitals, social services, housing, jails, energy assistance, jobs, etc, while paying little or no taxes. French tourists pay more in hotel, airport, sales, tourist taxes than do illegal aliens. And best of all tourists go home without using my schools, hospitals and jails!
End illegal immigration in Maryland www.HelpSaveMaryland.com
Help Save Maryland wants us to think that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes and cost us tens of thousands of dollars. Unfortunately for them, the data doesn't hold up their assertions.
As has been noted by Shikha Dalmia of the Reason Foundation, in 2006, when there were about 12 million illegal immigrants in America, 8 million of them were registered with the IRS and paid taxes. Beyond that illegal immigrants contribute to state sales taxes, road tolls, and property taxes (the same way "we" pay for "our" roads and schools). When all is said and done, it is estimated by the non-partisan National Research Council that illegal immigrants contribute on average $80,000 to the federal government than they consume.
Forgot the link to the Reason Foundation piece, reason.org/news/show/illegal-immigrants-are-paying
And as for the economy, it has been found by both the Cato Institute (www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10438) and the Center for American Progress (www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/01/raising_the_floor.html) that stricter enforcement of current immigration laws will lead to negative impacts on GDP and employment.
Economics is clearly on the side of reforming our immigration laws to allow for people to easily come to America and work.
History is as well. Up until the late 1800's the United States had no limits on who could emigrate to America, only on who could become a citizen. And for those who care about such things, one of the complaints against the King in the Declaration of Independence was his passage of laws limiting and discouraging immigration.
So what exactly does the anti-immigrant lobby offer in support of their claims besides alarmist rhetoric and faulty emotional appeals?
We have over 300 million American citizens, 260 million are native Americans and some 40 million are foreign born Americans. We welcome a generous million LEGAL IMMIGRANTS each year, more that any other country. Unfortunately the dregs of other nations come here illegally, like the Russian Mafia, Salvadoran MS13 and the infamous 9/11 terrorist from the Middle East. We get the most LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and ILLEGAL ALIENS from Mexico. Millions follow our laws and show high character, honesty and integrity. We welcome them. Millions more steal across our borders and commit felonies to steal American jobs in an unholy alliance with criminal, greedy employers. They are dishonest, with low character and integrity. They should never be considered for the most valuable citizenship in the world. Deport them all and jail the rotten employers that hire them. No amnesty ever again!!
Do people know the difference between and immigrant and an illegal alien? An illegal alien is in this Country ILLEGALLY! An immigrant is one who comes to this Country LEGALLY! Got it?
Both Bob and Estoban seem to think that we have a workable immigration system. Currently it is very difficult for anyone to enter this country, especially low-skilled workers. Many simply cannot come here legally. So they resort to crossing the border illegally. If you were really concerned about reducing illegal immigration, you'd be pushing to reform our unworkable immigration system. A much simplified guest worker program needs to be implemented. Many illegal immigrants would like nothing more than to work here for part of the year and return home. But they can't do that now, so they come here and bring their families. Make it easy for people to come here and go home easily, you'd see far less illegal immigration.
And immigrants don't "steal" jobs. Jobs aren't property. No one is owed a job. If a person doesn't get a job because someone else is more qualified or will work for less, it doesn't mean that job has been stolen. It's just gone to a better person.
Illegal immigrants come here to work and contribute? While their children consume or resources in education, their sick in our hospitals, their women in the maternity wards? Their criminals in our jails and some of their elderly our generous welfare system? Illegal by any other name is still illegal. One illegal action makes all the others illegal.
Well then Mike, you might want to focus on some other illegals first then. After all, if "One illegal action makes all the others illegal" we have far more illegal drivers (everyone who has ever speeded), illegal walkers (everyone who has ever jaywalked), and illegal breathers and imbibers (everyone who ever tried a cigarette before turning 18 or a beer before turning 21).
And that's just a start. By your logic illegal immigrants are just a drop in the bucket compared to other illegals.
Mike, if you are so concerned about those who use taxpayer-funded resources, you'd see much greater savings by targeting citizens. Many of the people who send their kids to school or whose children or relatives end up in jail have never paid a dime in income taxes. In fact, they likely consume many more taxpayer dollars since citizens, unlike illegal immigrants, are eligible for Medicaid, TANF, Section 8 housing vouchers, etc. Citizens, not illegals, consume the vast majority of taxpayer-funded programs. They get these programs whether they have ever paid taxes.
And, as Kevin has pointed out, the evidence suggests that illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they consume in government services. If this is the reason you oppose illegal immigration, then you've been misinformed by Lou Dobbs and others out there spreading falsehoods.
@ Mark
They sure as hell do steal jobs! Of course having a greedy criminal employer is necessary in many cases. The illegal gets better pay and the greedy employer gets to pay mmuch lower wages, provide no job safety(Agriprcessor in Iowa), provide no benefits(Walmart has a health plan so poor that most employees use ERs or tax paid state plans). Teen unemployment is 28%(40% for black teenagers) because illegal aliens have a lock on entry level jobs that teens have traditionally done for many, many decades. This also robs American teens of the experience to learn a strong work ethic. It is total nonsense to say that illegal aliens do not steal jobs. They commit felonies, using stolen Social Security numbers, fraudulent IDs, lie on I-9 forms and evade income taxes with the crooked employers that pay off the books.
@ Kevin
Don't muddy the waters! The government identifies those that overstay visas or steal across our borders as illegal aliens. Any immigrants here have had approval to come by following respectfully our laws. Illegal aliens have no respect for our laws, culture or people. Apparently there are many criminal employers that have the same disrespect.
@ Mike
53% of all legal immigrants and illegl aliens with children under 18 use at least one welfare program. Only 36% of native born Americans with children under 18 use at least one welfare program. Immigrants and illegal aliens accounted for about 13 percent of the U.S. population in 2008 but receive an estimated 26 percent of EITC benefits—about $12 billion.
Estoban, you have done nothing to actually deal with any of the points Marc and I made.
Jobs. You never addressed the fundamental issue - it is impossible to steal that which no one has a right to. Furthermore, teen unemployment is high, but because minimum wage laws make it unprofitable to employ teens (usually unreliable workers due to age/demeanor and scheduling difficulties due to school). And even if that wasn't in play, so what? As you note, employing illegals lets businesses do more for less; if we prevented them from doing so the cost would be everyone else pays more for goods and services. The free market works, in labor as in all things.
Illegals. I'm not muddying the waters, I'm just acknowledging the gross hypocrisy in how most people think and talk about violations of immigration law versus violations of all other laws. Immigration crime is the only crime where people suggest its taint is so deep as to make the people themselves illegal rather than just their action. Which is all the more absurd since illegal immigration is only a misdemeanor level offense.
As for respecting this country's laws, culture, and people they aren't automatically entitled to respect. They need to prove they deserve it, and the only measure for that is how much they respect liberty. If a law runs counter to individual liberty, it is unjust and is worthy of neither respect nor obedience. Insofar as culture and people propagate anti-liberty ideas, the same holds true for them.
@ Kevin,
Wow, Kevin, you sound just like the criminal, greedy employers that hire lawbreaking illegal aliens. All anarchists kinda believe they are gods, deciding which laws are inconvenient to them personally, therefore they can break them. Bankrobbers and forgers, rapists and molesters, all feel the same way. That makes it easier to see where these amnesty freaks are coming from.
So Estoban, I assume you would have fully endorsed obedience to fugitive slave laws or Jim Crow segregation laws as well? And you certainly would have stood with the Crown and against the American Revolutionaries too wouldn't you? Because the Founding Fathers, the opponents of slavery, and the Civil Rights movement all said the exact same things I'm saying about what duty we have to the law just because it's the law.
Estoban, I also assume that if some sort of amnesty passes then you'll strongly support it. After all, it's the law so according to your logic you are obligated not to question it. In fact, if you are so hung up on the fact that illegal immigrants have committed a misdemeanor when they came here, then the simple answer is to change the law. Your main problem is that they are lawbreakers. If the law is changed they won't be lawbreakers any longer and your concern will be addressed, right?
So Estoban, I assume you would have fully endorsed obedience to fugitive slave laws or Jim Crow segregation laws as well? And you certainly would have stood with the Crown and against the American Revolutionaries too wouldn't you? Because the Founding Fathers, the opponents of slavery, and the Civil Rights movement all said the exact same things I'm saying about what duty we have to the law just because it's the law.
@Mark-Kevin
Stealing across the border is a crime punishable with jail time. Using stolen Social Security numbers, fraudulent IDs, lying on I-9 forms and income tax evasion get into the felony realm. Americans do jail time for felonies. Illegal aliens are criminals as are the employers that hire them. Sen. Kennedy said there would be only one amnesty and Reagan foolishly bought the lie that there would be enforcement that would preclude any more illegal immigration. If there is an amnesty passed, 40 million more dregs will replace the present illegals and the same greedy, criminal employers will breaqk th law to hire them.
I try to follow the laws and work legally to change those I disagree with, rather than ignore them and break them as you choose to do.
@Kevin-Mark
Our leaders certainly could make the mistakes that George III did. If they do, no one would be surprised at another Revolution that also targeted financial interests that encouraged repressive laws. No one would be surprised. Our Founding Fathers did not appreciate being played the fools. Many Americans don't either.
Estoban, please tell me which law I have ignored or broken. I am merely advocating a change in the unjust immigration laws which currently exist.
Yes, you are right that illegal immigrants break the law through identity theft and lying on government forms. They do this, though, as a direct result of the law which makes it illegal for them to work here. If you change the law to allow them to work here, they would not commit these felonies. If your real concern is with illegal immigrants doing these things, you'd want to address the reason they are doing them. Instead, you want to perpetuate the system that causes them to steal identities and social security numbers.
And, yes, our Founders didn't like repressive laws. I wonder how they would feel about a law mandating a national ID card or one that forces every employer to get government permission before hiring anyone or a law that imprisons people who come to this country to work.
Mark-Kevin, Kevin-Mark,
It's no wonder you get confused! You are saying that bank robbers only break laws because it is against the law to rob banks. Thank you. I needed a good laugh!
I'm with Marc, while I have argued there isn't any moral obligation to obey an unjust law, what exactly do you think I have done that is illegal?
And as for the Founding Fathers, why stop with the ID question? In the Declaration of Independence they declared laws restricting and discouraging immigration as one of the oppressions he had forced onto the colonies. And in creating the nation, they implemented it without limits to immigration.
Estoban, if you think that someone taking property by force that doesn't belong to him is the same as someone coming to this country to look for a job, then I feel sorry for you. Robbing a bank is theft. Looking for work is engaging in a voluntary transaction. Bank robbers steal money. Illegal immigrants are employed by willing employers. Unfortunately, our policymakers have decided that it should be illegal for people to employ some non-citizens. Just because Congress has said something is illegal, though, doesn't make it morally wrong.
Of course, many people like you are confused about man's natural rights and think that our rights come from the government and that the government says what is moral and what is immoral. You may think that way, but I'm with the Founding Fathers in believing that our rights do not come from government and that when government infringes upon them, we have a right to resist.
@Kevin-Mark
You defend breaking the law. Too sad!
Answer me this, Estoban -- were Jim Crow laws and Black Codes morally right? Did people have a moral obligation to obey those laws?
@MarkMark-KevinKevin,
"...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.."
Commit murder, though, and you lose liberty and maybe life; commit child molesting and you lose liberty and kinked persuit of
happiness; commit ID theft and you lose liberty and persuit of happiness. Are you just going to break the laws inconvenient to you or start a revolution? Your attitude is an encouragement to illegal aliens to break laws. Why would you be ashamed of that, you don't think it's a big deal to disobey laws you don't agree with.
Estoban, You conflate acts which harm others with all things that are against the law.
When you murder or rape an individual you violate their liberty by violating their person.
When you steal from a person you violate their liberty by violating their property.
When you violate a person's liberty you have committed a moral offense. That is what should be against the law. But if your actions do nothing to violate the liberty against any other person, then there is no moral offense and no cause for them to be made illegal.
People like Marc and I take the rule of law very seriously. Seriously enough that we think it needs to be reserved for serious matters of real moral offense. When you pass laws that make activities that harm no one and are done by and between consenting adults all you do is cheapen the significance of the law.
I'm not ashamed of standing up for that or for only having respect for the laws that live up to that standard, not sure why you think otherwise.
Estoban, as the Declaration says, government is instituted to protect men's natural rights: the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (generally agreed to mean the pursuit of property). Once government starts violating these rights by enacting laws that infringe upon them, then government is acting unjustly.
Immigration laws deprive men of their right to liberty and their right to property. They say that a willing employer cannot hire a willing worker. That is fundamentally counter to the text and spirit of the Declaration.
It's not a matter of disobeying laws I disagree with. It's a matter of disobeying an unjust law. As I've asked before, do you think that people were morally obligated to obey Jim Crow laws? Do you think any law is morally right merely because Congress passes it and the President signs it? Is there not some higher authority besides the State that determines what you think is right and wrong?
This year hipanic births will exceed white births in America. This is by design. By 2050, the US will be an hispanic country with all the associated problems. Anyone that doesn't like it should leave. I expect a large net out migration of Americans in the years ahead. New Zealand and Australia are prime destinations from ex-patriot Americans that have given up on their country of birth due to our corrupted govermnent.
Marc said:
"Yes, you are right that illegal immigrants break the law through identity theft and lying on government forms. They do this, though, as a direct result of the law which makes it illegal for them to work here. If you change the law to allow them to work here, they would not commit these felonies. If your real concern is with illegal immigrants doing these things, you'd want to address the reason they are doing them. Instead, you want to perpetuate the system that causes them to steal identities and social security numbers."
And if we give free money to people who are considering robbing a bank, then maybe they won't rob banks. And if we give free cars to people who are considering stealing a car, then maybe they won't steal cars. And if we give free computers, TVs, DVD players, video game systems, etc., to people who are considering burglarizing these items from other people's houses, then maybe they won't burglarize houses.
Marc, I applaud you for your logic!
Every illegal alien who has worked in the United States has committed one or more of the following crimes (some are felonies): ID theft, document fraud, Social Security fraud, "I-9 Form" employment fraud, conspiracy to violate immigration laws, and income tax evasion.
Marc said:
"Immigration laws deprive men of their right to liberty and their right to property. They say that a willing employer cannot hire a willing worker."
Actually our immigration laws say that a willing employer can't hire a foreigner who is in this country in violation of our country's immigration laws. Just about every country in the world has these same restrictions in place regarding hiring foreign workers who are illegal aliens.
@ Maria
Well said!
Maria, so what if other countries have similar immigration laws? Since when does a violation of natural rights become acceptable merely because others are doing it, too. Like Estoban, you seem unable to grasp the difference between actions that infringe upon someone else's rights (theft) and are thus properly illegal and actions that don't hurt anyone else's rights (such as looking for a job) and thus shouldn't be illegal. Do you, like Estoban, think that our rights come from the government and that any law is a just law simply because it is the law? I notice that Estoban has refused to answer this question or whether or not Jim Crow laws were moral and should have been obeyed. He'll reappear to cheer you on but not to answer a couple simple questions. Interesting...
Jimi, fear and hatred of minorities has a long and shameful history in the anti-immigration movement. People railed about how Italians and Jews would ruin White America in the 1890's and they were as wrong as you are no
Estoban, You conflate acts which harm others with all things that are against the law.
When you murder or rape an individual you violate their liberty by violating their person.
When you steal from a person you violate their liberty by violating their property.
When you violate a person's liberty you have committed a moral offense. That is what should be against the law. But if your actions do nothing to violate the liberty against any other person, then there is no moral offense and no cause for them to be made illegal.
People like Marc and I take the rule of law very seriously. Seriously enough that we think it needs to be reserved for serious matters of real moral offense. When you pass laws that make activities that harm no one and are done by and between consenting adults all you do is cheapen the significance of the law.
I'm not ashamed of standing up for that or for only having respect for the laws that live up to that standard, not sure why you think otherwise.
@Marc-Kevin
Jim Crowe laws are as much dead history as the Dred Scot Decision. You have no authority, no constituency, no power. You have an opinion that your view of the validity of laws is the ultimate value judgement. Sorry to deflate your godlike opinion of your opinion, but you are just another anarchist encourageing the breaking laws that you don't agree with. I pity you.
@MarkMark-KevinKevin,
"...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.."
Commit murder, though, and you lose liberty and maybe life; commit child molesting and you lose liberty and kinked persuit of
happiness; commit ID theft and you lose liberty and persuit of happiness. Are you just going to break the laws inconvenient to you or start a revolution? Your attitude is an encouragement to illegal aliens to break laws. Why would you be ashamed of that, you don't think it's a big deal to disobey laws you don't agree with.
Estoban, engage with the real issue: Do you believe that a law is just and should be obeyed solely because it is the law?
If the answer is yes, are you willing to follow that to its logical conclusion?
Looking to the past, would you have stood for the enforcement of Jim Crow? Fugitive slave laws? Forced sterilization of the "mentally feeble"?
Looking to the hypothetical, if it became law would you support abiding by laws that strictly regulated dietary habits, such as the proposed law in New York banning restaurants from using any salt in the preparation of food?
Or what about the real extremes? The actions of the Taliban in Afghanistan or Saddam in Iraq were legal? And, at the risk of Godwin-ing myself, I have to ask - Was the Holocaust acceptable since it was legal under German law?
Would you object to any of those and at least agree with others in ignoring those laws, if not in fact break them yourself?
(Also, I realized that the reason for the multiple postings of some comments is refreshing the page after having posted a comment makes the comment get re-submitted for some reason. Just a heads up)
In accordance with Romans: 13, I believe the laws of a citizen's nation should be followed. If I find a law objectionable I use time, labour, vote and resources to bring about a legal change. When thee is a truly evil law(slavery) much blood must sometimes be shed. Laws involving taxes, labor, speed limits, etc. inconvenience all, but protect also. They are certainly not to be ignored or broken.
Marc said:
"....fear and hatred of minorities has a long and shameful history in the anti-immigration movement."
I'm pro-legal immigration and anti-illegal immigration. So I belong to the anti-illegal immigration movement.
Which minorities are you referring to? Illegal alien is not a race, nor are all illegal aliens of the same race. I'm an American of Hispanic ancestry, and I still have relatives in Mexico. I am 100% opposed to illegal immigration. If any of my relatives from Mexico came to this country illegally, I would not do anything to help them or support them in any way. Every lawbreaker has an excuse for violating the law. So, should we decide whether or not to prosecute a lawbreaker based on how good or valid their excuse was for violating the law? What if a bank robber says that he robbed a bank because he needed to feed his children. Do we give him a pass because some judge determined that the bank robber's excuse was good enough to substantiate robbing the bank?
Maria, my comments were aimed at Jimi, who expressed a profound distaste for you and your Latino brethern. While I am sure you have reasons other than racial prejudice for opposing illegal immigration, your side is populated with a number of people like Jimi, who oppose immigration because they fear the "brown horde."
And as Kevin and I have repeatedly stressed, our opposition to these laws is not based on some excuse that lawbreakers gave. It's based on the same belief that animated the Founding Fathers -- government is in place to protect men's natural rights and when it violates those rights it is being unjust. You feel that government grants us rights and is the highest authority to which we owe allegiance. I feel that our rights don't come from government but, instead, that all men have certain inalienable rights.
You may choose to blindly follow whatever those in power say, but I choose to judge their actions using a higher standard.
@Marc-Kevin
In accordance with Romans: 13, I believe the laws of a citizen's nation should be followed. If I find a law objectionable I use time, labour, vote and resources to bring about a legal change. When thee is a truly evil law(slavery) much blood must sometimes be shed. Laws involving taxes, labor, speed limits, etc. inconvenience all, but protect also. They are certainly not to be ignored or broken. Let me know when you find a country that lets you break all their laws because you disagree with them.
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