As I mentioned in the first part of this article, there are many benefits to having your son join Cub Scouts. However, some hesitation is to be expected. Here are some reasons why boys may opt out of scouting.
1. Discrimination
One of the most notable aspects of Cub Scouts is the absence of girls. Being a precursor to Boy Scouts, this is to be expected. However, it doesn't make the girls feel any better. I'm sure I wasn't the only little girl who wished to be a part of the Cub Scouts, rather than the smock-wearing Girl Scouts. The discrimination which upsets the girls, though, may be why it remains so popular for the boys.
2. Differing Beliefs
One of my primary reasons for being opposed to my son joining was its church affiliation. I was wary of a religious organization which might try to push its views onto my young son. Rightfully so, I might add, as the Cub Scouts are sometimes sponsored by (and may even conduct meetings in) churches. However, a brief chat with the pack leader dispelled my worries. He relayed that the individual dens (and the parents within those dens) decide how they will handle religious differences. If your son joins a den in which religion holds a major part, request to join a more secular den.
3. Fathers Only?
Another type of old-fashioned discrimination experienced with the Scouts is the idea of "father and son bonding." The dads help the boys build cars or show them how to whittle wood with knives. But where do the moms fit in? Being a single mother, I learned they fit in just fine, actually. While I initially felt awkward being one of the few females at meetings, I met other mothers and accepted the occasional help from fathers. That being said, I still continue to experience moments of feeling like the token girl in a boys-only club.
4. Expenses
Let's see: hat, shirt, belt, kerchief, neck slide, and a book. Some of these items change annually with each new rank. That can get pricey. Now add in the cost of dues (which can vary between $50 to $200), the gas to drive your scout to the many events and meetings, the food you'll occasionally buy (if you're not one to cook, like me) for parties, and supplies for completing tasks (like blocks of wood or plant seeds). You're potentially looking at several hundred dollars per year. However, one perk is that by selling popcorn, the boys can earn money to pay off their annual dues. Moreover, some parents of older pack members will pass down their sons' old hats, kerchiefs, or books to newer members.
5. Time Crunch
This is one point I won't argue: scouting takes up a lot of time. Be prepared for at least two den meetings and one pack meeting each month, the occasional Saturdays spent in the hot sun or cold wind, and many nights at home working through the book. A parent must be as dedicated to his or her son's scouting as the boy himself. Nevertheless, this will be some of the best quality time you spend with your son.
For more information:
"Boy Scout bigotry" by Trina Hoaks
"Boy Scouts are Coming: Gay Discrimination in our Schools" by Tracy Kachtick-Anders
Comments
Yes, Cub Scouts is all those things, but for us, the positives far outweigh the negatives. It can be as rich as you make it, all dependent on your personal investment.
We paid $50 for a shirt and patches that lasted 3 years. We paid a 1 time fee of $22 to join the pack and that is good for the whole 5 years. We have more Moms as den leaders than Dads. In fact out of 8 dens only 1 is led by a dad. Our Pack meets in an elementary school and has several children of different belief systems. You are right about little girls wanting to join. My daughter got past that when she discovered indian guides.
I am a cubmaster who has had two boys go through the program. I too am a single mom. That is why I wanted my boys in Scouts, because I was not sure how to teach them alot of the things that boys need to know. I take them to my church and teach them my values. But, with cub scouting it showed me how to help teach my boys the things they needed to know to be successful men. Now, that my boys are in boyscouts, they are learning to independent, to speak in public, be a leader, to realize it is okay for guys to cook. They have to do this when they go camping. But, as for cub scouts, I tell my parents that we are so busy these days and it gives alot of us who are busy working and running after them, a way to spend a few quality hours with our boys before they grow up. Because, some people have forgotten how to spend quality time with their kids. So I encourage everyone who have boys to get them in scouts. It is an awesome organization.
.........GO 100 YEARS OF SCOUTING....YEAH......
Yes, Cub Scouts is boys-only. Just like Girl Scouts is girls-only, but I don't see anybody claiming they discriminate against boys. Why is it so bad to have single-gender activities?
It is obvious by your story you don't know much about the programs offered by BSA. Have you heard of the Venturing program? This program is boy/girl where each unit is run by the participants who elect leaders and do High Adventure outings. The adults simply aid in making it happen. As for the chartering organization "pushing its beliefs", that is simply not the way of BSA. Every Scout is encouraged to follow his own belief. BSA offers the Scout the chance to earn religious medals in about two dozen religions. Each Scout is encouraged to do so but not required. I believe one of, if not the major reason, boys don't become Scouts is because the parents want "drop off" programs rather than programs where they are involved with their child's experience in the program. In short, many parents want to give lip service to being involved with their child but not if it really means doing something. I suggest all parents find the right pack for your son and get involved!
Why shouldn't you son join Scouting. No reason, unless you're one of those parents who believe the slanted stories published by the media in an effort to defame an organization that has helped young boys become healthy, concerned men for the last one hundred years. And frankly it sounds like YOU fall in that category! Go find a Cub Scout pack for your son and really see what Scouting is about!
Kelli, as the parent of both a girl and a boy, I think you're missing the point of Scouting -- and defaming a great organization.
News flash: Boys and girls are NOT the same -- they learn differently, mature at different ages, and are interested in different things. Boys need their own space to grow and develop in their own way, and there are very few opportunities of this sort any more since political correctness seems to creep in everywhere.
My tomboy did not think much of Girl Scouts (and neither did I), but the answer to that problem is not to tear down the Boy Scouts but build up the Girl Scouts. If you're able to do so, given the non-outdoors interests of many if not most girls - and that's why allowing girls in Cub Scouts would change its very nature.
If my daughter had been younger we would have simply started an outdoor-adventure oriented GS troop, but within a year or two she was able to join the BSA Venturers, had a splendid time, and earned her Outdoor Bronze A
How about the fact that the Cub Scouts as part of the BSA proudly discriminates against gays and atheists?!!! They even went to the US Supreme Court to be allowed to do so. My kids will never join an organization that teaches hate.
so say one thing for the Scouting program is a great program and there is nothing like it. but at 14 girls can become involved and they do that. But with boy scout have held strong and keep our morals strong and if they did not I would not be involved anymore. But when I was at Sea Base there was a girl scouts there and they are also in the boy scouts because they can use the scout vacillates because the girl scouts don’t have anything like it.
but if you involve boys and girls the program would have to change because the girls would not find the stuff the boys do very interesting.
The girls scouts where open to make a program like the boy scouts but they choose not to do it and that is their choice.
If you look at what happened to scouts in Canada and you can see why it is so important to keep scouting going the way it is and keep our program strong.
On the Gay issue boys don’t care about all this. They just want to go have fun and be with boys there age and doi
ok part of it got cut off
On the Gay issue boys don’t care about all this. They just want to go have fun and be with boys there age and doing boy things together. But it is always adults that really bring up these issues and have problems with the boy scouts as a private organization. Just think of how much better scouts would be if they did not have to spend all that money to defend our self’s. but look at what the boys want and keep the adult issues out of scouting and let the boys have fun and grow up.
You rip into them and then close with this: Nevertheless, this will be some of the best quality time you spend with your son.
At least you got that part right!
John: "But it is always adults that really bring up these issues and have problems with the boy scouts as a private organization. Just think of how much better scouts would be if they did not have to spend all that money to defend our self’s."
Yes, they're a private organization, so they're allowed to practice their bigotry, although there is controversy when they make use of public facilities, as they frequently do. And think how much better scouts could be if they would stop practicing bigotry.
The Boy Scouts of America holds as one of their core values that gays and atheists can never be a role model to youth. They state this belief plainly in public and in testimony to the U.S. Supreme Court. If you believe the same thing, and don't mind teaching such intolerance to your kids, go ahead and sign them up. If, however, you believe gays and atheists can be good citizens and role models, I don't see the point of joining an organization if you disagree with one of their core values.
Kind of ironic you would ask this question on the day that Prime Minister Gordan Brown has declared Alan Turing a person "whose unique contribution helped to turn the tide of war." Alan Turing was openly gay. Without him we very likely would have never defeated the Germans in WWII. Yet BSA considers Turing, like all gays, incapable of being a role model for youth. Thanks but no thanks BSA, I'll let my boys learn values from someone else.
i don't like intolerant atheists who won't approve of my christian beliefs. I bet there are some homosexuals who feel the same.
i don't like intolerant homosexuals who want to substitute their parenting decisions of when my child should learn an adult issue like a "homosexual lifestyle" even exists (or any other adult issue for that matter).
Thanks for illustrating my point, Mike. I couldn't have said it better myself. If you hate gays or atheists, you will feel right at home in the Boy scouts of America -- nobody will challenge your beliefs. But if you think gays are atheists are folks who should be treated the same as anyone else, you already disagree with one of BSA's core values, so BSA is probably not a good fit for you.
First of all, I want to emphasize the link at the beginning which directs you to my article, "Why should my son join Cub Scouts?" This was a two-part article to point out both the benefits and drawbacks to Cub Scouting, not to defame an organization.
I personally used to be against it, for the many of the reasons listed by commenters. Being an atheist who supports all gay rights, I had definitely heard the negative side of scouting. However, for my son's den (and I can't speak for all packs or dens), this is not an issue. My son is also very much in favor of gay rights. His den has never approached the subject, just as they have never talked of personal beliefs.
I wish the BSA didn't have such a stand against those with different beliefs or lifestyles, and I'm certainly not defending them in that area. However, I agree with John. Scouting isn't about what the higher-ups believe. It's about the boys, and from what I’ve seen, the boys are open-minded and kind.
Darren: wow! I'm impressed at the low costs you've encountered.
Scoutmaster: Unfortunately, I think it is very true about some parents wanting "drop-off programs." Scouting is one program where that typically cannot happen, which is one thing I like about it.
Thanks for the comments! I appreciate the discussion, regardless of whether you agreed with the article or not.
I find it interesting that some deem teaching children fictional stories from the bible more valuable than teaching them about facts, such as alternative life styles.
Children can't be protected from facts in life just because they don't mesh with your value system. As a parent it is my role to act as a guide, not a censor.
Being a former girl scout, I recall minor religious tones to our meetings, in the sense that there was a God.
However, not once did I ever come across any references to homosexuality, or athiest beliefs. I find it hard to believe that any organization, that is geared towards children and children's life skills, openly preaching HATE towards another group. And I also find it hard to believe that any parent, in their right mind, would allow it either.
I guess that's my opinion, but I don't see Cub Scouts secretly telling their scoutmasters that they must ensure that all Cubs are aware that athiests and gays are not acceptable.
It's very clear that most people saying Kelli is bashing the BSA clearly failed at reading comprehension. Her first sentence tells you to click on her other article for the benefits she's seen as a parent of a Scout. Those who tell her to have her son join also missed that her son has been a member since kindergarten, again, as she discusses in her previous article.
Great points, Kelli. Thanks!
First of all, let's be clear. We are talking about Boy Scouts of America, not Girl Scouts. Girl Scouts is a completely different program, with no relationship to Boy Scouts in the U.S.A. One's experience with Girl Scouts has nothing to do with Boy Scouts in the U.S.
Second: I am not here to "defame" an organization. I am here to tell the truth about it, in their own words. I am an Eagle Scout and know something about it.
If your family is atheist, or if your family supports all gay rights, your son and your family is already in disagreement with basic scout values, stated clearly by the BSA.
You can do one of two things: 1) Ignore the rules. Enjoy Scouts for the good stuff, and ignore the bad. But that puts you squarely in violation of the Scout Law (read "A Scout is Obedient") 2) Speak up about your disagreement with the BSA position on gays and atheists. But that puts you squarely in opposition with your vow to uphold the Scout Oath and Law.
If you want to teach your son that bigotry can be tolerated because the people sure seem kind, that is your prerogative. But if you want to teach your son moral consistency, and that your beliefs matter, you can do a whole lot better than the BSA, and find kind people to boot!
Regarding the pack leader who told you that individual dens decide how they will handle religious differences, he is either misinformed about BSA rules, or a liar -- I'm not sure which is worse.
Here is a simple test to find out how much freedom your den and pack has to set its own rules, anyone in Cub Scouts can try it: Have your Pack adopt a standard non-discrimination policy, something like
"Our Pack does not discriminate in its programs on the basis of race, color, creed, religion, national origin, marital status, and parental status, status with regard to public assistance, disability or sexual orientation."
This is standard language used by most public schools and employers. Then, submit this statement to your local Scout office, and display the statement on your Pack literature and at Pack events. Now, sit back and see how long your Scout Pack continues to be open-minded and kind.
You can report your results back to us; I'm sure it will be very informative.
Curtis, those are all excellent points. I'm not even going to argue, because they do make sense to me.
However, what it comes down to is this: my son (and many other boys as equally open-minded) is part of an organization that he loves, that teaches him many skills, that allows him to bond with other boys, and that lets him be a part of a club. If it became more of an issue with his pack, sure, I'd address it. If the scoutleaders started telling the boys during their monthly round-ups that gays are evil and atheists stupid, you bet I would feel differently about it. But as it stands, why hurt the kids so you can get to the adults? I teach my son that no one's beliefs should matter to him, but his own. If he decides that he can no longer support such an organization, I will let him make the decision to withdraw.
Finally, what better chance of change does this organization have than from the next generation of open-minded, tolerant scouts?
You don't have to hurt the kids. There are dozens of alternatives to BSA that provide great youth development without having to compromise your family's values.
Don't lull yourself into thinking that you or your son can be part of changing BSA for the better in the future. Do some research into how BSA is structured, and you will learn that BSA is tightly controlled by a small group, with no reason to change. They get enough support from the groups they serve to survive far into the future, without having to change anything.
Your son will learn about BSA's core values as soon as he learns how to use Google. BSA does not keep them a secret. If you want to stay in Cub Scouts, you can start planning for how you will explain to your son why your family participates in an organization that conflicts with your own core values.
Or, you can start developing bonds with a different club that will be more healthy for your son long into the future.
Curtis sure has no issues telling those how he feels about the BSA, but in the same breath, feels it necessary to mention that "he is an Eagle and knows something about it"
Here is something to try, for those who "know"...don't put your affiliation with the BSA on your resume, or for that matter, don't even mention that your are/were a member of the BSA. I am sure that there are those out there that do...Bash the BSA, then proudly display it when they need work...hypocrites.
There are a lot of great clubs out there for kids to join...FFA, 4-H, and the like...they have their own rules, and those need to be followed, also...
The great thing with the USA is our freedom to speak, and we have all spoken...much like the BSA has spoken in regards to their policies.
For those who want the BSA to be more tolerant, go start another youth group with the values that you want, remember, it's a free country and you can do that...
Great, great article Kelli...thanks
I am proud of my accomplishments as an Eagle Scout, and no one can take that away from me. Not even those who disagree with me.
I'm glad we all can agree that there are many great alternatives to BSA. I'm glad we can also agree that values matter, and anyone considering to join or renew membership in a youth club should review that club's values as part of their decision-making process.
BSA's values are clearly stated by BSA at www.bsalegal.org. BSA believes gays, atheists and agnostics cannot be role models for youth, and does not allow them to be members, either as youth or adults.
I encourage you to reflect on whether or not those values affirm your family's values, and to act accordingly.
BSA is a private organization that has rules. They have two basic rules to belong. One is to have a believe in God. Because the oath requires you to do your duty to God. The other is to be morally straight. BSA believes that atheist cant fullfil their obligation because they dont believe in God and Homosexuals are not morally straight. You might not like it but those are the BSA rules. I personally believe that homosexual behavior goes against nature and is a bad example to youths as much as heterosexuals sleeping around, or drinking heavily etc. I believe drunkars and adulterers should be kicked out of BSA as well as homosexuals and atheist.... its a private group you dont like it go to 4hs or something else...
Javier, I think if my 9-year-old son were a drunkard or adulterer, I would have more pressing concerns than whether or not to keep him in BSA.
I am sorry I just can't do it. I would never let my child join an organization which felt that Jewish people or African Americans weren't "good moral people".This is no different.
In life there will be people with whom you disagree and so tolerance is an important lesson and to disavow and dehumanize groups of people is just not ok, They have the right to exclude anyone they like from their private organization but I'll be damned if they get a dime of my money, a minute of my time, or send flyers home through my sons PUBLIC school! Hate is hate no matter what sash or vest you put on it!
I really hope my story is NOT typical, but even if it isn't, I still hate BSA. I spent one horrible year in Cub Scouts, and was verbally, physically, and emotionally abused during that time (it's a long story). Today, I have nothing to do with any of those adult leaders, and I wouldn't want any of them around my children. As far as I am concerned, those folks can all go straight to hell.
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