Jerry Lisner - part two

In the late summer or early fall of that year, Lisner came back into Frank Cullotta’s life. His reemergence posed potential problems for Frank and Tony Spilotro, but the repercussions were much worse for Lisner himself. Following is Cullotta’s account of how he handled the Lisner problem.

 

“I got a call from a friend who owned a restaurant in town; he said we needed to meet. He brought another guy along with him, a lawyer. The attorney asked me if I knew Jerry Lisner. I said I did. He explained that Lisner was in trouble with the feds, and was playing ball with them to get himself a deal.

 

 “The lawyer said, ‘Lisner’s been in front of a grand jury in Washington and he’s been cooperating with them. I found out that he’s mentioned your name and Tony Spilotro. I don’t know you or this Tony guy, but I thought you ought to know.’

 

“I thanked the lawyer and then got hold of Tony. He thought we might have a problem. He said it looked like one or both of us might get indicted. He said he wanted to check into the situation himself and he’d get back to me.

 

“A few days later I heard from Tony. He’d confirmed what the lawyer had told me. He said, ‘Listen, this guy is cooperating with the grand jury in Washington. He’s giving testimony about you and your affiliation with me. And he’s talking about that deal in Washington [the money laundering scam] you tried to pull. Subpoenas are going to be issued.’

 

“The very next day the FBI served me with a subpoena to appear before the grand jury in Washington. After they left I called Tony. I asked him if I should make up a story or take the Fifth [exercise his right against self-incrimination] and force them to offer me immunity. Tony said to get a lawyer out of D. C. and make up a story. We’d deal with Lisner later.

 

“I went to Washington and retained a lawyer. After discussing my testimony with him I was interviewed by the United States Attorney and some FBI agents. They gave me a grilling, but I stuck to my story. I testified the same way when I went before the grand jury.

 

“When I got back to Vegas I told [paroled murderer and Hole in the Wall Gang member] Larry Neumann what was going on. He wanted to go and kill Lisner right then. I told him we couldn’t just go around whacking people without permission; I needed to find out what Tony wanted to do first. We decided that in the meantime Larry would make contact with Lisner’s old lady, Jeannie, who was a cocktail waitress at the Aladdin. We figured he could get close to her and get information, or pass on bogus stuff we wanted her to feed to her husband.

 

“Larry pulled it off and became buddies with them, but he didn’t like them. He told me that when we were ready to hit Lisner, he’d be glad to do the job. But he wanted to kill both of them. He said, ‘She’s a no good bitch and she’s got to go too.’ Jeannie had no idea how much Larry hated her. Tony kept Larry out of what came later, and saved her life in the process.

 

“Tony finally made up his mind. He told me, ‘I want him whacked. If you don’t do it, I’ll do it!’ I told him to take it easy; I’d take care of it. He said he wanted to make sure I understood that he wanted Lisner taken care of. He’d gotten the okay from Chicago and it had to be done. We talked about who I’d take on the hit with me. I mentioned Larry, but Tony nixed it. We decided to have Wayne Matecki come in from Chicago instead. Tony then suggested that I get back in touch with Lisner and get him comfortable with me being around him.

         

“I contacted Lisner and invited him and his wife to meet me at the My Place Lounge. We had a good time, laughing and joking. Tony even came over, making the guy more comfortable. Tony charmed both of them. By the time the Lisners left they must have been feeling pretty secure.

 

“I drove to Los Angeles and flew [from the Burbank airport] to Chicago. I made contact with Wayne and briefed him on the plan. He packed his bag and we caught a plane back to Burbank, and then drove to Vegas. I had a work car stashed in the underground parking garage of my condo. We had the piece [a .22 pistol], police radio, and walkie-talkies, everything we’d need.

 

“I called Lisner [on October 10, 1979] and told him I needed to discuss something with him, but couldn’t do it on the phone. He told me to come over to his house. I said it was a private thing. He assured me his wife would be at work and no one else would be around.

 

“Wayne and I put our stuff in the car and drove to Lisner’s [at 2303 Rawhide Avenue]. When we got there I told Wayne to wait in the car. I put the pistol in my waistband, went to the door and rang the bell. Lisner answered the door and let me in. We stood in the hallway and talked about some bullshit. To get him away from the door I said I heard a noise coming from down the hall. We took a walk to the living room to look around. I couldn’t wear gloves in without making Lisner suspicious, so I had to be very careful not to touch anything and leave my fingerprints as we went through the house.

 

“We didn’t find anything in the living room [that would have made the noise], so I said maybe it had come from outside. When we passed through the dining room I pulled the gun and shot him twice in the back of the head. Instead of going down, he turned around and said, ‘What…why?’ And then he started to run through the house toward the garage. I caught up with him and emptied the rest of the pistol into his head. He fell, but he was still alive, still moving. I couldn’t believe it. I got on top of him and held him down. I saw a knife on a counter next to the garage door. I tried to reach it so I could cut his throat, but it was too far away. There was a water cooler close by so I ripped the cord out of it to strangle him with. When I wrapped it around his neck and pulled, the goddamn cord broke. I got up and dragged him into the den area. He was still conscious, screaming at me, ‘My wife knows you’re here. She’s going to know you did this.’ By that time Wayne showed up. We loaded the gun, put pillows from the couch over Lisner’s head, and I emptied the pistol into his head again. It took ten bullets, but he was finally dead. We dragged him out to the pool and dumped him in. He floated for a few seconds and then sank to the bottom.

 

“Wayne and I went back into the house; there was blood everywhere. We wiped everything off and then checked the house for any security cameras or recorders. There weren’t any. We also looked for any papers or address books that might have had Tony’s or my name in them. There weren’t any.

“We left Lisner’s and I went home and showered. I scrubbed my hands with kitchen cleanser and cut my clothes into little pieces. Wayne did the same. Then we drove the work car into the desert and scattered the gun and scraps of clothes all over. After that we parked the work car and I drove Wayne to McCarran Airport. He was on a plane back to Chicago that same night.

 

“The hit was big news all over town. The next night I met Tony at My Place. We talked in the parking lot. He said we’d discuss Lisner this one time, but never again. He had a couple of questions about the killing. He wanted to know why we dumped Lisner in the pool. I told him it was to get rid of some of the blood and any fingerprints that might have gotten on his clothes. Tony thought that was a bit theatrical. Then he wanted to know why so many shots were fired. I told him the small caliber wasn’t working well, wasn’t doing the job. He said we should have half -loaded the bullets. I said the guy wouldn’t die with full loads. What good would half-loading have done? Tony just laughed. We never talked about Lisner again.”

 

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