LA Progressive
Thomas Jefferson made one thing very clear in his notes and letters. The First Amendment clause that states "congress shall make no law with respect to the establishment of religion" was not so much to foster freedom of religion, though that is certainly a by product, but to make sure the government of the United States was, and always would be free from religion.
The one thing Jefferson and the Founders made clear and wanted to be very sure of, was that there would never be anything in the United States like the Church of England of which Jefferson and most of the Founders had a very low opinion .
Jefferson specifically wrote in his letters that the First Amendment regarding religion was designed, in Jefferson's words, "to build a wall between the government and the church". The Founders wanted to make sure the church would never have any official influence or hand in the affairs of state.
All indications are now that it was the US Conference of Catholic Bishops who were instrumental in the anti-abortion amendment that was attached to the health care reform bill in the House. And that the wall established by the Constitution was taken down by Nancy Pelosi and Barrack Obama when they caved in to political pressure by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops who are credited with creating the anti- abortion language in the health care bill.
Rep. Bart Stupak who wrote the controversial amendment, admitted as much. "The Catholic Church used their power — their clout, if you will — to influence this issue. They had to. It's a basic teaching of the religion," Stupak said, according to Reuters.
Stupak went on to say that he told Pelosi, a Catholic, that if she wanted a deal on the health care bill, she would be well advised to invite the staff of the Catholic Bishops "to her table." That staff just happened to be in Stupak's office at the time of the call.
Pelosi did invite them, and the result was an anti-abortion amendment that went beyond the Hyde amendment which prohibits federal funding of abortion, which is why its causing such a backlash among Democrats.
The problem with it is not so much the bishops but Pelosi and Obama and why religion and politics don't mix.
The bishops were acting no doubt out of a sense of morality based on their religious beliefs, but beliefs not shared or even accepted by tens of millions of people. Pelosi and Obama on the other hand were not acting out of morality for the simple reason that, if they were, and it was something they morally believed in, the amendment wouldn't have had to be written -- similar language would have been in the bill in the first place.
The amendment was written, not because either Pelosi, or Obama or most Democrats believe in either the morality or the fairness of the amendment though one can still respect the views of those who do. But it is why the Founders in their wisdom, did not want religious interference in the affairs of state.They did not want legislation affecting tens of millions, or now hundreds of millions, written by politicians, that were influenced by the religious beliefs of any one particular religioius entity. They knew the two did not mix. Religion is a private, personal matter. Running the government in a public matter. Democracy and independence has never had a place in Christianity. In fact the very word "heresy" , has as its Latin root a word that means "to think for yourself",something that the church considered a crime and a sin.
Stupak's anti abortion amendment was, according to sources, practically drafted by the Catholic bishops, and this has ignited not just outrage over the content of the amendment, but outrage at both Stupak, Pelosi and Obama for allowing a religious group to have such an impact on legislation in direct violation of the First Amendment.
The U.S. conference of Catholic Bishops maintains a staff of 350 people in Washington and according to Diana DeGette,( D-Colo) the bishops were allowed to overstep their bounds in influencing and authoring this amendment.
But the blame does not lie with the bishops. The blame lies with those in congress and Obama, who so readily violated the First Amendment because of the power the church wields in terms of election politics. There are 68 million Catholics in the United 'States and more than 50% of Catholics voted for Obama in 2008 so it seems that Obama was willing to throw away constitutional principle for personal political expediency.
The real question is, should the Catholic bishops, or any religious group, be barred from having what is clearly an extensive lobbying effort in Washington and the answer is probably yes.
The church has been allowed to have it both ways on many fronts for a long time, on one hand enjoying tax exempt status as a religious order, invoking the separation of church and state to avoid paying taxes on their considerable real estate, stock market holdings and investments, yet allowed to avail themselves of secular bankruptcy laws to help them deal with the tens of billions of dollars in jury awards stemming from law suits for the serial child sexual molestation cases going back decades, for which the church has been found guilty.
On one hand the church has been claiming separation of church and state to allow them to escape taxes, and on the other, they clearly cross the line into the secular affairs of state both with suing for bankruptcy protection and maintaining a lobbying effort in Washington to influence legislation.
Some members of congress are now seriously looking into the legality and constitutionality of the Catholic Bishop lobbying effort and will seek legal remedies to end it based on its violation of the First Amendment. As for the abortion amendment, there are going to be changes made in the senate, most likely re-enforcing the language of the Hyde amendment and going no further.
Comments
I'm sorry, but your opening premise is exactly wrong. The intent of separating church and state was to prevent the government from interfering with the church and not the other way around. If the intent were otherwise, that phrase would be written differently. Look at how it's structured. "*Congress* shall make no law..." The body being limited here is the government, not the "establishment of religion." The goal was to prevent the government from setting up a state church, like the Anglican Church, rather than preventing any religious groups from ever having a say in what the government does. Religious Americans are Americans, too. If Jefferson had wanted his intentions about a "wall of separation" in the Constitution, he should have had them written there. Since he didn't, his letters and notes are just letters and notes. They're not voted, and they're not ratified.
Since we are dealing with man's beliefs about the afterlife, shouldn't atheism be included and treated like a religion as well? Many atheists are just as passionate in their "Not-God" beliefs as people of faith, the world over, and, they hide under secularism to ram their agenda through.
You fail Logic 101 and basic Constitutional Law.
The mere fact that a religious group supports or opposes something does not meant that it is imposing religious doctrine.
Preventing the Catholic bishops or any religious body from speaking on public policy is a violation of the freedom of speech.
good article.
the religious right has too much power in American politics. Such ignorance and superstition must be overcome if we are to survive as a free people, otherwise we may succumb to an Xian theocracy.
In any country, where religion holds strong sway, women suffer.
Anyone who is surprised by the brazen abuse of non profit status as the Catholic Church lobbies and influences lawmakers, look to the effort last year to prevent victims of sex abuse at the hands of Catholic priests from getting a law passed that would bring their cases into civil court. The bishops take up illegal positions in lawmakers' offices. They have gotten away with blatant felonies over and over, so why is anyone surprised that the Catholic bishops don't even try to hide their illegal acts anymore?
Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush[now Obama] screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”
Blatant blatant establishment of religion push, Alice. Guess you don't see it because it wasn't Islam being pushed, but rather YOUR religion.
The logic of this article is foolish. The Establishment Clause in no way, shape, or form precludes legislators from voting for something because they think it is right, or against something because they think it is wrong.
This isn't about politics; it's about murder. There are those with moral ethics who stand up for what they believe in, regardless of the cost. You, apparently, are not capable of doing that.
God doesn't give a rat's patooty about who's a republican or democrat. You, as well as Obama, Pelosi (hypocrite) and all their liberal friends will find that out, someday. Let us know how that works out for you.
If we believe that the founding fathers were writing that there be separation of church and state, than we would say the church is for life and the state is for death in this matter of abortion. Because didn't these founding fathers also write "We hold these truths self evident, that all individuals are endowed by there creator to the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" I don't think they wanted it both ways.
Democrats perpetuate the low state of the groups they claim to protect. Clinton's 3-strikes law position put a number of non-violent black youth behind bars for life - on the charges of pot etc. This move by Pelosi and Obama makes women to fight the same old battle over again and shifts us to dark ages. The new health bill will triple-tax middle class and cut funding from poor and retirees, read it carefully.
That is why the church and state should be separated because there are always conflicting views regarding abortion. As a Catholic myself,I am anti-abortion and I don't care what other people think. In the end we all have to respect others for their personal views. Nice page,Marc and see you on the set!
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