Turkey and its historic Christian minorities: one step forward, one step back, as the country struggles with its identity. Is Turkey defined by its "Turkishness," or is it a liberal democracy where members of minority groups have equal rights, and history is faced truthfully?
Recent events reveal ambiguity. Turkey has announced that the tenth century Akdamar, or Aghtamar, Armenian church on Lake Van in eastern Turkey will be no longer be a museum, but will be opened for worship in 2010. In its incarnation as a museum, there was no cross on top of the church; however, a cross will crown the church next year.
One may wonder if many churchgoers will show up for services. If I'm not mistaken, the Armenian remnant in Turkey today lives mostly in Istanbul and Ankara, not in the historic territory of western Armenia/eastern Turkey. The mayor of Van, Munir Karaoglu, is quoted as saying that Akdamar will become a pilgrimage site for Armenians worldwide. That is probably a realistic assessment. Akdamar will likely resemble the Cairo synagogue, nowadays frequented principally by American or Israeli Jews.
Indeed, some Armenians reacted coolly to the announcement. Ruben Safrastyan, Director of Armenia's Institute of Oriental Studies, National Academy of Sciences, dismissed the opening of the church as a "formal gesture": “There are thousands of churches in Turkey, which have been systematically destroyed. The destruction of Armenian churches continues up to now." But while the Akdamar decision is not as welcome as, say, Turkey's coming to grips with the Armenian Genocide, even "gestures" show some progress, progress that Turks and Armenians can build on.
On the other hand, Turkey's reaction to events in distant Australia do not show it at its best. Fairfield, a suburb of Sydney, has approved the erection of a memorial to the Assyrian genocide. Proponents of the memorial state that about 750,000 Assyrians living in the Ottoman Empire, 75 per cent of the total, were killed by Turks in 1915-1918, the same time frame as the far more well-know Armenian Genocide.
Turkey went ballistic. Oguz Ozge, Turkey's ambassador to Australia, said that the proposed monument is "very offensive," adding: “It hurts the Turkish Australians living in this country and it is an attempt at destroying the harmony of the two communities living in Australia side by side. We are looking into whether we can do anything, legally or otherwise." These are the same sort of pressure tactics Turkey has employed for years in its attempt to prevent international recognition of the Armenian Genocide.
Frankly, I didn't even know that Turkey had another genocide in its closet to deny. Turkey ought to take this opportunity to bravely face its past. That would win worldwide respect. Its current approach of denial, bluster and bullying shows a lack of wisdom and self-confidence--it earns Turkey no credit.
Comments
In a letter unanimously approved by members of the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) sent to the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan on 3 November 2009, stated:
"Outside of your [Turkish] government, there is no doubt about the facts of the Armenian Genocide, therefore our concern is that your demand for a historical commission is political sleight of hand designed to deny those facts. Turkey has, in fact, shown no willingness to accept impartial judgments made by outside commissions. Five years ago, the Turkish members of the Turkish Armenian Reconciliation Commission pulled out of the commission after the arbitrator, the International Center for Transitional Justice, rendered an assessment that the events of 1915 were genocide.
And, Prime Minister Erdogan, you have repeatedly stated that even if a historical commission found that the Armenian case is genocide, Turkey would ignore the finding."
The refusal to acknowledge the Armenian genocide, indeed, to vigorously deny it, has been a tenet of every Turkish government since the proclamation of the republic in 1923.
First of all this monument is a local issue and should not be interfered with international politic, I can’t see a reason for the Turkish Government official to interfere in this mater.
It is quite obvious now the Turkish government are denying this genocide that was perpetrated by their ancestors the Ottoman Turks against the entire Christian population in Turkey, ( it was a Jihad against Christians ) whether they were Assyrians , Armenians or Pontiac Greeks, over 2.5 millions were slaughtered.
How about this proposal for the Turkish Government; if they are prepared to allow the Assyrians to erect this genocide monument on our occupied territories were our people were slaughtered in Turkey , then we will just forget about erecting it in Australia
Turkey will be seen as a leader in the Middle East/Europe if only it was to admit the past of Genocide against the Assyrians, Armenians and Hellenic People. The Truth always makes you gain respect of past wrong doings. Be strong and honest and the World will respect you, be in Denial and the World will look down on you.
Genocide is the worst crime humanity has given a name. Forgiving Turks who have not repented is hollow and meaningless.
The Turks have not only murdered humans, destroyed an ancient culture civilization and rewritten history, but they continue to legitimize the act as well as the racist ideology that led to the act.
Denial is not just the simple negation of an act; it is much more the consequent continuation of the very act itself.
Genocide should not only physically destroy a community; it should likewise dictate the prerogative of interpretation in regard to history, culture, territory and memory. As the victims [Armenians] never existed.
So then, when does the Armenian genocide end? Only when the evil axis-of-denial [US State Department - United Kingdom - Israel] cease support and complicity in the Turkish crime of genocide.
"Frankly, I didn't even know that Turkey had another genocide in its closet to deny"<br>
Unfortunately it is abundantly clear that there's alot more that Kujawsky doesn't know about this subject. It would be preferable for him to first inform himself about the facts before writing about them anymore. His article repeats half-truths and misrepresentations which a little research could easily have exposed. Does he care? I hope so.
Turkish reaction to the memorial in Australia wasn't "balistic" at all! The monument made false accusations against the Turkish People; they have a right to be outraged especially since its proponents claim to be humanitarians interested only in the welfare of mankind! Turks acknowledge the deaths of the Armenians, Assyrians, and Greeks. But they reject the "genocide" label. They arent "deniers"!
More information on this issue is available on the ATAA website (ataa-dot-org see "False Allegations")
Jurist Raphael Lemkin coined the word "Genocide" to properly describe the destruction of nearly 2 million Armenians during 1915-23.
Dr. Lemkin, a lawyer of Polish-Jewish descent and Holocaust survivor, used the word "genocide" in 1943 to specifically describe the barbarity that befell the Armenians at the hands of the Turkish state.
Before the word "genocide" existed, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and world leaders described the events as the "Armenian holocaust.
The Armenian genocide has been officially recognized by the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly, the Parliament of Europe, and many European countries, including France, Germany, Italy, Greece, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Poland, Sweden, Slovakia, Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Lithuania, and the Vatican.
The Armenian genocide has also been acknowledged by Armenia, Russia, Lebanon, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Australia and 43 U.S. states, and by scores of international organizations worldwide.
The "Armenian Genocide" has been recognized by scores of Legislative Bodies worldwide as a result of unrelenting political pressure from Powerful Armenian Lobbies. Groups have proclaimed themselves as "Genocide Scholars" claiming to be a "World Authority" on "Genocide" and have then proceeded insist that nothing less than a label of "Genocide" be attached to the Armenian, Greek, and Assyrian deaths of 1915. They insist that anyone who differs with their arrogant, childish, claims is a "Genocide Denier".
True Scholars do not daemonize their ideological opponents as "Deniers" insinuating satanic, evil characteristics against anyone who differs with them. True scholars do not insist on a "genocide" label on obviously religious grounds such as the so- called "Greek Genocide". Finally, Legislators are not elected to decide on century-old historical facts. Impartial historians decide on historical facts and courts convict criminals using rules of evidence.
The Government of turkey is pouring millions of dollars to deny and help rewrite history of the Armenian genocide. The link below an example of Turkey's revision of it's bloody past, to cast victims (Armenians) as victimizers. The Armenian Church named in this article offers a shameless political bargaining chip. Literally thousands of Churches in turkish occupied lands are left to rubble, destroyed by turkish bloody hands in the ashes of those they killed without mercy.
REPUBLIC OF TURKEY MINISTRY OF CULTURE AND TOURISM
'Igdir Genocide Monument And Museum'
(Google to link using quoted words above)
The program of renovation of Christian church in Eastern Turkey started at least in the 1980's, as described by Michael M. Gunter in "'Pursuing the Just Cause of their People'. A Study of Contemporary Armenian Terrorism", Westport-New York London, Greenwood Press, 1986. Defamation of Turkey, about churches and the so-called "Armenian genocide" is a classical way of Armenian nationalist organizations.
The figure of "75% of Assyrians killed by Turks" is pure fiction. A part of Turkish Assyrians, the Chaldeans, made insurrections, together with Armenian nationalist, killed Muslim civilians and ransacked villages, in 1915. After that, some Kurds committed unacceptable acts of revenge. Assyrian volunteers killed many other Kurds in 1916 after this revenge. Etc.
If Mr. Kujawsky does not understand Turkey, it is because he did not read the right authors: Edward J. Erickson, Bernard Lewis, Guenter Lewy, Andrew Mango, Justin McCarthy, Salahi Sonyel, Stanford J. Shaw or Gilles Veinstein.
"Dr. Lemkin, a lawyer of Polish-Jewish descent and Holocaust survivor, used the word "genocide" in 1943 to specifically describe the barbarity that befell the Armenians at the hands of the Turkish state."
R. Lemkin created the word "genocide" in 1944, in a book which never uses the word "Armenian": "Axis Rule in Occupied Europe", Washington, Carnegie endowment, 1944. Lemkin used the word "genocide" to describe the Armenian events of 1915-1916, but several years after, when he had changed his minds about the signification of "genocide". Lemkin's proposition to define the legal concept of "genocide" was not the proposition adopted by UN in 1948.
Lemkin did not speak Turkish, and did never search in Western archives about Armenian issue. He was absolutely ignorant and full of préjugés about Turks and Ottomans.
"According to the almost universal testimony of inhabitants and eyewitnesses, Russians acting on the instigation and advice of Nestorians [= Assyrians-Chaldeans] and Armenians who accompagnied them... murdered and butchered indiscriminately any Moslem member of the population who fell into their hands. A typical example that might be quoted is the extermination of the town of Rowanduz and the wholesale massacre of its inhabitants... A traveller through the Rowanduz and Neri districts would find woudespread and wholesale evidence of outrages committed by Christians on Moslems."
Major Eward W. C. Noel, British intelligence officer sent in Eastern Anatolia to fight the Turks, report of 1919, FO/4185/156735, quoted in Salahi R. Sonyel, "How Armenian Propaganda Nurtured a Gullible Christian World in Connection with Deportation and 'Massacre'", "Belleten", January 1977, pp. 171-172.
(Post 2 of 2, Lemkin)
Why? Well, the reason given was that they were friendly to the enemy of their rulers; that they were a fifth column; that they were spies. Every one of the 2 million of them…."
When asked how he became interested in the Armenian genocide, Lemkin explains: "I became interested in genocide because it happened to the Armenians; and after[wards] the Armenians got a very rough deal at the Versailles Conference because their criminals were guilty of genocide and were not punished.
The trial of Talaat Pasha in 1921 in Berlin is very instructive. A man [Soghomon Tehlirian], whose mother was killed in the genocide, killed Talaat Pasha. And he told the court that he did it because his mother came in his sleep ... many times. Here, …the murder of your mother, you would do something about it! So he committed a crime. So, you see, as a lawyer, I thought that a crime should not be punished by the victims, but should be punished by a court, by a national law."
(Post 1 of 2, Lemkin)
1949 CBS News Interview: Raphael Lemkin Discussing Armenian Genocide
Lemkin, who is credited for coining the word "genocide" in 1943 to describe the 1915 genocide of the Armenians and then the Holocaust, has also played an important role in compelling the United Nations to adopt the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in 1948.
Dr. Lemkin talks about the UN Convention and the Armenian genocide. Showing footage of Turkish soldiers brutally chasing and killing Armenians, the moderator says: "Yes, these folks are not playing games. They are running for their lives. Men on horseback. It doesn't matter much who they are. Let's say they are modern cavalry out on orders of their commanders. These [showing film footage of a group of Armenians] were the victims. They are Armenians and the place is in Asia Minor. Nearly 2 million of them were driven from their homes to perish in the desert or die before they got there.
Great Article:
To be clear: The only deniers of the Armenian, Greek and the Assyrian Genocides in 1915 by the Ottoman Turks, that then incarnated to modern day Turkey with a sort of self induced collective amnesia, are the Turks themselves and a handful of "paid" historians. That's all! The discussion of the Armenian genocide in Turkey today is forbidden with laws jailing anyone doing so. This comes from a country that denies it's genocidal past and claims to have "nothing to hide".
Anyone wanting more info on the Armenian Genocide needs only to Wikipedia it at: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide or just go to our own United States Archives to find over 40,000 pages depicting in real time the "Armenian race extermination".
You confirm what I said: Lemkin used the word "genocide" to describe the Armenian events of 1915-1916 in 1949, i.e. five years after to create this word in his book "Axis Rule in Occupied Europe" (where the word "Armenian" is never used), and after to present his project of definition before UN (1948), project which was rejected.
“The only deniers of the Armenian, Greek and the Assyrian Genocides in 1915 by the Ottoman Turks, that then incarnated to modern day Turkey with a sort of self induced collective amnesia, are the Turks themselves and a handful of "paid" historians"”
Congresswoman Jean Schmidt was winner in her trial against far right agitator David Krikorian, who accused her to be paid by Turkish governement. Guenter Lewy made a court case against those who defamed him, by accusations of corruption by Turkish money.
“The discussion of the Armenian genocide in Turkey today is forbidden with laws jailing anyone doing so.”
Grotesque. Books supporting “genocide” claims are freely published in Turkey since 1992, and severe accusations against CUP were freely published many years before. Ara Sarafian and Hilmar Kaiser make lectures in Turkey, are interviewed by great Turkish newspapers, like “Zaman” and “Hürriyet”. On the contrary, Armenian nationalists attempted anything to crush free historical research and free speech, including attempts of murder (against Stanford J. Shaw in 1977 and Bonnie Kaslan in 1985, both in USA), assault (against Gilles Veinstein in France in 2000), death threats and defamation campaigns (all over the world, for example against Justin McCarthy, Bernard Lewis, Heath Lowry and Guenter Lewy in USA).
From 1973 to 1997, Armenian terrorists killed more than 70 peoples, wounded more than 500 and perpetrated 160 bomb attacks to promote “genocide” claims. One of the two major terrorist group, the so-called Justice Commandos of Armenian Genocide (later called Armenian Revolutionary Army) was a branch of Armenian Revolutionary Federation, which controls Armenian National Committee of America. When a terrorist of JCAG/ARA was arrested, ARF supported vehemently this criminal: racist murderer Hampig Sassounian in USA, for example. Mourad Topalian, president of ANCA from 1991 to 1999, was sentenced, in 2001, to 37 months of jail for illegal storing of explosives and war weapons by an US court.
Who will publish an article about that in this media?
From 1973 to 1997, Armenian terrorists killed more than 70 peoples, wounded more than 500 and perpetrated 160 bomb attacks to promote “genocide” claims. One of the two major terrorist group, the so-called Justice Commandos of Armenian Genocide (later called Armenian Revolutionary Army) was a branch of Armenian Revolutionary Federation, which controls Armenian National Committee of America. When a terrorist of JCAG/ARA was arrested, ARF supported vehemently this criminal: racist murderer Hampig Sassounian in USA, for example. Mourad Topalian, president of ANCA from 1991 to 1999, was sentenced, in 2001, to 37 months of jail for illegal storing of explosives and war weapons by an US court.
Who will publish an article about that in this media?
To Dussardier -
Some people are not too intelligent (i.e. stupid) and that is okay; you see, one can educate and work with an unintelligent person.
Other people are arrogant (i.e pompous) and that is okay as well; you see, one can still humor and work around an arrogant person.
Yet, some people are both not-so-intelligent and arrogant at the same time; and hence the problem with your type of people.
BTW, the last phase of a crime of genocide is denial.
“Yet, some people are both not-so-intelligent and arrogant at the same time; and hence the problem with your type of people.”
Classical way of response of Armenian nationalist who has no argument, no fact to oppose: insult.
“BTW, the last phase of a crime of genocide is denial.”
That’s surely the reason why not a single accused during the trials of Nazi great war criminals denied the existence of Shoah and other major crimes of Nazi regime. Especially Adolf Eichmann was extremely cooperative during his trial in Jerusalem.
Throughout centuries millions of civilians have been massacred alongside the military. Recent examples: The civilians of Hiroshima and Nagasaki; Dresden,and, Iraq and Afganistan. Not all of these tragedies can be described as "genocide".
To classify a tragic event a genocide, an International Tribune a la Nurnberg has to be convened; all the parties involved questioned; archives should be opened; and the accused given a chance to defend themselves. In the case of the Armenian claims, not just the Turkish, but also American, British, Lebanese, Armenian, and particularly the FRA archives in Boston should be opened. This has never been done.
A tribunal was held on the island of Malta after World War I by the British. They held 144 Turkish govenment officials for about two years; they contacted all the Allies asking for evidence of war crimes against the Turks. Non were found, and
all of the detainees were released. Armenians still have the burden of proof.
Erkin Baker
Political claims of Armenian (and/or Assyrian) genocide are based on a racist and dishonest interpretation of history. They are racist because they deliberately ignore Turkish suffering cause by these groups. They are dishonest because they hide from the public the facts that they took up arms against their own government, attacked their neighbors and fellow citizens, joined the invading enemy armies, and terrorized the non-combatant Turkish population.
If one cherishes values like fairness, objectivity, truth, and honesty, then one should really use the term “Turkish-Armenian conflict”. Asking one “Do you accept or deny Armenian Genocide” shows anti-Turkish bias. The question should be re-phrased “What is your stand on the Turkish-Armenian conflict?”
Turks believe it was an inter communal warfare mostly fought by Turkish and Armenian irregulars, a civil war which is engineered, provoked, and waged by the Armenian revolutionaries, with active support from Russia, England, France, and others, all eyeing the vast territories of the collapsing Ottoman Empire, against a backdrop of a raging world war.
Armenians, on the other hand, totally ignoring Armenian agitation, raids, rebellions, treason, territorial demands, and Turkish victims killed by Armenians, unfairly claim that it was a one way genocide.
GENOCIDE ALLEGATIONS IGNORE “THE SIX T’S OF THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICT”
While some in unsuspecting public may be forgiven for taking the blatant and ceaseless Armenian propaganda at face value and believing Armenian falsifications merely because they are repeated so often, it is difficult and painful for someone like me, the son of Turkish survivors on both maternal and paternal sides.
Those seemingly endless “War years” of 1912-1922 brought wide-spread death and destruction on to all Ottoman citizens. No Turkish family was left touched, mine included. Those nameless, faceless Turkish victims are killed for a second time today with politically motivated and baseless charges of Armenian genocide.
ALLEGATIONS OF ARMENIAN GENOCIDE ARE RACIST AND DISHONEST HISTORY
They are racist because they ignore the Turkish dead: about 3 million during WWI; more than half a million of them at the hands of Armenian nationalists.
And the allegations of Armenian genocide are di
THE SIX T’S OF THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICT:
1) TUMULT (as in numerous Armenian armed uprisings between 1882 and 1920)
2) TERRORISM (by well-armed Armenian nationalists and militias victimizing Ottoman-Muslims between 1882-1920)
3) TREASON (Armenians joining the invading enemy armies as early as 1914 and lasting until 1921)
4) TERRITORIAL DEMANDS (where Armenians were a minority, not a majority, attempting to establish Greater Armenia, the would-be first apartheid of the 20th Century with a Christian minority ruling over a Muslim majority )
5) TURKISH SUFFERING AND LOSSES (i.e. those caused by the Armenian nationalists: 524,000 Muslims, mostly Turks, met their tragic end at the hands of Armenian revolutionaries during WWI, per Turkish Historical Society. This figure is not to be confused with about 2.5 million Muslim dead who lost their lives due to non-Armenian causes during WWI. Grand total: more than 3 million, according to Prof. Justin McCarthy.)
6) TERESET
VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING
Those who take the Armenian “allegations” of genocide at face value seem to also ignore the following:
1- Genocide is a legal, technical term precisely defined by the U.N. 1948 convention (Like all proper laws, it is not retroactive to 1915.)
2- Genocide verdict can only be given by a "competent court" after "due process" where both sides are properly represented and evidence mutually cross examined.
3- For a genocide verdict, the accusers must prove “intent” at a competent court and after due process. This could never be done by the Armenians whose evidence mostly fall into five major categories: hearsay, mis-representations, exaggerations, forgeries, and “other”.
4- Such a "competent court" was never convened in the case of Turkish-Armenian conflict and a genocide verdict does not exist (save a Kangaroo court in occupied Istanbul in 1920 where partisanship, vendettas, and revenge motives left no room for due p
HISTORY IS A MATTER OF SCHOLARSHIP, NOT CONVICTION, CONSENSUS, POLITICAL CORRECTNESS
History is not a matter of "conviction, consensus, political resolutions, political correctness, or propaganda." History is a matter of research, peer review, thoughtful debate, and honest scholarship. Even historians, by definition, cannot decide on a genocide verdict, which is reserved for a "competent court" with its legal expertise and due process.
POLITICAL LYNCHING OF THE TURKS BY ARMENIANS TODAY
What we witness today amounts to lynching of the Turks by Armenians to satisfy the age old Armenian hate, bias, and bigotry. Values like fairness, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, objectivity, balance, honesty, and freedom of speech are stumped under the fanatic Armenian feet. Unprovoked , unjustified, and unfair defamation of Turkey, one of America's closest allies in the troubled Middle East, in order to appease some nagging Armenian activists runs counter to American interest
Poor Kirli-the-Clown and Dussardier. It's becoming tougher to stop the truth isn't it? A lie only goes so far. We are to believe that all genocide historians/scholars and the 22 countries including Germany, Turkey's witnessing ally during the genocide, who all acknowledge the Armenian, Greek and Assyrian Genocide as fact, do so because they are racist? Or, they don't know Turkish history? Or, they just didn't read the few denialist books written by historians on the Turkish payroll? Genocide and it denial are the ultimate forms of racism.
May,5 2008.
The press release of the Human Rights Association for the Recognition of the Armenian Genocide
“Today, April 24 is known as the date signifying the Armenian Genocide in the entire world. Only in Turkey it indicates a taboo. The Turkish State is mobilizing all its resources to deny the signification of this date”.
No amount of your propaganda isn't going to wash this away.
When cornered, a typical behavior of Armenian Propagandists is to immediately launch personal "ad-hominem" attacks against their ideological opponents. The individual posting as "hopper1915" hopes that no one will notice that his posts are filled with slander and racial hatred. He repeatedly submits posts calling his ideological opponents "deniers". In fact, in his 12:32pm post he calls all Turks "deniers"; he submits a post condemning an entire ethnic group as "deniers" then he insists that "Genocide and its denial are the ultimate form of racism" - implying that Armenians are the victims of racism !
Many posts have been submitted here with sound rational arguments against the "genocide" label for the 1915 events. Armenian propagandists, unable to defend their arguments resort immediately to slander and personal attacks.
I know the readers will realize the victimizers turks are double killing the Armenian's by these in-humane acts of genocide denial.
The turks on this thread seem to have no shame, no morals, no human dignity toward the deaths of a million in a half people, nor do they have respect for the living of the decendents of Armenians killed.
I've read this cut and paste garbage before from these turkish government proxies it's nothing new, nothing enlightening, just serves to help victimizers continue to make a mockery of human dignity of those killed without mercy.
I am not a Turk. If I were my ethnicity would still have nothing to do with the validity of my arguments ...except to a racist who is out to spread ethnic hatred.
"I know the readers will realize the victimizers turks are double killing the Armenian's by these in-humane acts of genocide denial."
No argument, pure defamation. It is an unacceptable confusion between the critique of "genocide thesis" and the denial all crimes committed against Armenian civilians during WWI. There were crimes, but there was no genocide — against Armenian or against any other people.
Those who "killed two times" are Armenian nationalists, who massacres more than 500,000 Muslim civilians and at least 13,000 Jewish civilians, from 1914 to 1922, in Anatolia and Caucasus, then assassinated more than 70 innocent peoples, wounded more than 500 others and perpetrated 160 bomb attacks from 1973 to 1997. The same Armenian nationalists deny 98% of crimes committed against Muslims and Jewish civilians, and approve the 2%.
"We are to believe that all genocide historians/scholars and the 22 countries including Germany, Turkey's witnessing ally during the genocide, who all acknowledge the Armenian, Greek and Assyrian Genocide as fact, do so because they are racist?"
The so-called "genocide scholars" are simply not scholars but jokes, for the huge majority. Germany never recognized the so-called "genocide". A resolution was voted by Bundestag, without using the word "genocide" and without any support from German government and from Bundesrat (German Senate). The "recognition" failed in Swede, Spain, Denmark, Bulgaria, US Congress, etc. In France, the resolution was in National Assembly by 50 lawmakers (40 for, 10 against), and almost all those who voted yes are elected thanks to racist Armenian associations, including Dashnaks. The Senate refused to vote during two years, and only strident demonstrations (every week!), until the limit of physical threat, force the vote.
"I am less than impressed by the unanimous vote of the International Association of Genocide Scholars that the Armenian case “was one of the major genocides of the modern era.” The great majority of these self-proclaimed experts on Ottoman history have never set foot in an archive or done any other original research on the subject in question."
Guenter Lewy, "Commentary", February 2006.
Among the very few "specialists" of Armenian issue within IAGS, there are V. Dadrian, critized even by moderate pro-Armenian scholars — especially Hilmar Kaiser — for his falsified quotations and translations; and Tessa Hofmann, who acknowledged huge errors, including about Armin Wegner (a source destroyed by German scholar Martin Tamcke) and the famous painting of skulls (who was made in 1872 about French-Prussian war, not about Ottoman Armenians).
Dear Kirli-the-Clown,
Your Turkish propaganda denailist stance is about as convincing as your comb-over. Just as there are historians who deny the Holocaust such as David Irving there are historians that deny the Armenian Genocide. Most deny for money paid by the Turkish Government directly to them or through phony grant money from the ITS (Institute of Turkish Studies). And some historians of Jewish decent deny the Armenian Genocide to protect the ruling Jews in Turkey or to not have it compete with the Holocaust. These historians are not taken seriously.
Again for anyone wanting history and not Kirli-the-Clown propaganda just Wikipedia it at:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
"These historians are not taken seriously."
The strongly pro-Armenian historian Hilmar Kaiser praised Yusuf Halacoglu in an interview to... "Armenian Weekly". Dr Kaiser said, about Prof. Halacoglu: "Halacoglu is the only Turkish historian who has put material on the table I cannot reconcile with my current knowledge. He is an extremely smart guy, very professional. He is ahead of me in some regards. [...] Don’t underestimate Yusuf Halacoglu. I respect him. I might disagree with him emphatically but I’m comfortable that I don’t have a fight with him at this point. The academic resources of an entire state converge on this one person. The Armenians have nobody coming even close to the shadow of him."
"Most deny for money paid by the Turkish Government directly to them or through phony grant money from the ITS (Institute of Turkish Studies)."
Among the few historians who challenge "genocide" claims and received grants from ITS, they are Stanford J. Shaw, Justin McCarthy and Heath Lowry. The three received grants several years after to challenge the claims of "genocide". For example, S. J. Shaw challenged Armenian claims as early as 1977, but received his first grant from ITS in 1985. Anyway, for both Prof. Shaw and McCarthy, ITS grants represent a tiny minority of their needed money; and several Armenian or pro-Armenian "scholars" are entirely funded by nationalist Armenian associations, including V. Dadrian, Richard G. Hovannisian and Taner Akçam.
"And some historians of Jewish decent deny the Armenian Genocide [...] to not have it compete with the Holocaust."
Typical example of Armenian anti-Semitism, one of the most fanatic and strident kinds of anti-Semitism in the world (see General Dro or, more recently, the Union of Aryan Armenians and the Turkish flag burned by young Dashnaks after to add a David star). Guenter Lewy was victim of such an anti-Semitic defamation, but he did never say that the Shoah was the single genocide in history, and used the word "genocide" to describe the crimes of the Khmers rouges and the ethnic extermination of Rwandese tutsis, in 1994.
Like this terrific, accurate article says:
"Turkey ought to take this opportunity to bravely face its past. That would win worldwide respect. Its current approach of denial, bluster and bullying shows a lack of wisdom and self-confidence--it earns Turkey no credit".
Again for anyone wanting history and not Kirli-the-Clown Turkish propaganda just Wikipedia it at:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
It should also be noted that in typical Turkish stance the current leader of Turkey also doubts the Genocide in Darfur as he is seen smiling and shaking the hands of Bashir, the organizer of the Genocide in Darfur. Apparently someone needs to tell Turks what genocide is.
"Wikipedia it at:"
Wikipedia has no more credibility, at least for human sciences. His article "Armenian genocide" was written by Armenian propagandists/liars.
"It should also be noted that in typical Turkish stance the current leader of Turkey also doubts the Genocide in Darfur"
The law case against the Sudanese dictator includes no more the accusation of "genocide". This guy is a war criminal and derserves jail, but he is not an author of "genocide", it is absurd.
"shaking the hands of Bashir"
Like the Turkophobic Nicolas Sarkozy.
"Apparently someone needs to tell Turks what genocide is."
Hmm... What about the mausolee of Dro, a willing executioner of the Shoah in USSR? Dro was actually the chief of Armenian Revolutionary Federation, i.e. the holding of Armenian National Committee of America; his mausolee was paid by ARF; he is frequently celebrated by ARF in USA and Lebanon, together with another Nazi Dashnak, Nejdeh.
1
If Turks committed a genocide which is the greatest crime of humanity, and if Turkey really avoids of facing its history, and if the Armenians and their supporters sincerely want Turkey to do it, then why do the Armenians persistently refuse Turkey’s suggestions to discuss these events together with historians from both sides and other countries? For example:
*In 2004, the Viennese Armenian-Turkish Platform (VAT) was founded to exchange documents about the 1915 events by Austrian, Turkish and Armenian historians. After receiving 100 Turkish documents, the Armenians abondened the project refusing to continue to fulfil their commitments and afterwards the Armenian foreign minister announced that they did not want to discuss the 1915 events with historians.
*Armenia refused the Turkish prime minister's and the Turkish Assembly's invitation announced on April 13, 2005 and repeated a lot of times later, to establish a Joint Commission composed of historians from both sides and other
*Why did the Armenian historian Sarafyan, who accepted the invitation of the then chief of Turkish History Foundation, Halacoglu, for cooperation to investigate Harput events, abandon the project, after talking the Armenian diaspora?
*The Ottoman and Turkish archives are open, unlike it is claimed by the diaspora. Even, Armenian historian Ara Sarafian from Gomitas Institute and Hilmar Kaiser searched the Ottoman archives (www.sarigelinbelgeseli.com)
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*In spite of this, why are the Armenian archives including the one in Zoryan Armenian Institute in Boston closed? Both Turkish government and Turkish History Foundation offered the Armenians to open these archives; but the directors of the Zoryan Institute replied that they did not have enough money to open the archives. Turkish government and Turkish History Foundation promised financial support.Why did the Armenians refuse this suggestion too? (Nüzhet Kandemir, ). Note that Zoryan Institute has quite enough money to provide financial support for Taner Akçam who advocated the Armenian claims while working in Minnesota University until recently.
Why are the Armenians terribly afraid of establishment of historical joint commissions (See: ASALA threats to attack again .turkishforum.com.tr/en/content/2009/10/21/struggle-to-go-on-asala-rep-states/
And Armenians Demonstrate Against Yerevan-Ankara Protocols on Beirut Streets
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It is striking that Sarafian, the head of the London-based Gomidas Institute, said Prime
Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo?an’s offer to Armenia to establish a commission of historians to
resolve the Armenian issue was positive, but Armenia was the wrong address. He also said that freedom of expression for historians in Armenia is limited and the genocide issue has become a political tool. (.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/10426989.asp?scr=1
If a genocide had really occured, why did Brian Ardouny of the Armenian Assembly of America announce ‘We don’t need to prove the genocide historically, because it has already been accepted politically’? Why did the chief of the Armenian Archives in Armenia tell that they were not interested in the achives, but all they are interested is the world’s public opinion.
Or why have the Armenians not admitted to an international court yet?
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In your life, have you ever seen a criminal who persistently calls the victim to bring his evidences? And, have you ever seen a victim who passionately accuses somebody of committing crime and giving him great harm but strictly avoids of bringing his proofs before the referees or going to court, and tells that he need not prove that person’s guilt, because the community has already accepted him as guilty?
In this situation would you not question the era you are living in? 5000 BC or 2000BC?
What else should the Turks do to face their history? Is it Turkey/Turks or Armenia and those who support them who are terribly afraid of facing their history?
To author: As a journalist, it is of course up to you to feel the courage to display your ignorance about the aforementioned developments which have already been heard by even the deaf sultan. Of course it is also up to you to evaluate how much credit you lose because of your this lack of wisdom and self-confidence.
"Wikipedia it at:"
Wikipedia has no more credibility, at least for human sciences. His article "Armenian genocide" was written by Armenian propagandists/liars.
"It should also be noted that in typical Turkish stance the current leader of Turkey also doubts the Genocide in Darfur"
The law case against the Sudanese dictator includes no more the accusation of "genocide". This guy is a war criminal and derserves jail, but he is not an author of "genocide", it is absurd.
"shaking the hands of Bashir"
Like the Turkophobic Nicolas Sarkozy.
"Apparently someone needs to tell Turks what genocide is."
Hmm... What about the mausolee of Dro, a willing executioner of the Shoah in USSR? Dro was actually the chief of Armenian Revolutionary Federation, i.e. the holding of Armenian National Committee of America; his mausolee was paid by ARF; he is frequently celebrated by ARF in USA and Lebanon, together with another Nazi Dashnak, Nejdeh.
Well of course Wikipedia has no credibility because Kirli-the-Clown says so. Are we also to understand that there is no genocide in Darfur either as the current Turkish leader has stated many times?
Why can't people in Turkey talk openly about the Armenian Genocide without being prosecuted under article 301? Does the truth worry modern day Turkey so much so that anyone deviating the official Turkish propagandist denial should be jailed or worse killed as so many intellectuals have? In 2005 Turkish intellectuals were gathering at a university to discuss the Armenian Genocide but was abruptly stopped by Turkish officials and in which these intellectuals were deemed "traitors". Why is that? Why does the truth hurt Turkey do badly?
Armenian propagandists resort to what they know best: deception, lies, and slander. While Turkish side produces facts and figures woven into a civilized debate, Armenians (Hopper1915 and others) resort to insults. This shows how right Turks are.
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