I can relate to this argument yesterday by Karen DeCoster, who explains why college is hardly "necessarily" and why it most certainly is not a requirement for everyone.
Artificial demand for college degrees, driven largely by state- and federally-subsidized loans along with public school teachers' entreaties to children everywhere to pursue education after high school, has resulted in skyrocketing tuition, too many colleges and students, and too much student debt -- which often culminates in loan defaults when an oversupply of graduates can't find jobs in a tight market.
Karen's spot-on analysis primarily makes me happy because it serves to vindicate some of the teachings I would share with former elementary school students back in the mid to late '90s, when I knew I had strong libertarian leanings but well before I was versed in the teachings of LewRockwell.com, Austrian economics, and libertarianism.
As many readers probably know by now, I once taught fourth grade in a public school, which was located in a low-income, inner city-type area and populated primarily with minority students. It epitomized single parenthood, broken families, and all the other perks that often tend to accompany widespread crime, drug use, and welfare subsidies. To say that the majority of students faced uphill battles to overcome problems in their home lives and communities would be an understatement, and any honest teacher knew that many of them would be lucky to graduate from high school, much less go on to have successful college careers.
I may have been a mere college graduate myself, but I would've had to have been an idiot to tell 10-year-old kids, many of whom were certifiably illiterate, that they "needed" to go to college to be successful. Inasmuch as discussions of the sort even need to take place in an elementary school classroom, it would have been borderline criminal to fill these kids' heads with such a notion when half of them hardly even wanted to be in school in the first place.
However, looking back I highly doubt many of the other teachers in my school shared my views. It was virtually common knowledge that kids were simply expected to go to college, and I'm almost certain that the principal would have written me up if I was ever caught "demoralizing" the students or "discouraging" them from "taking ownership for their education," or whatever the lofty mantra was for the year. Admittedly, I've tried hard to forget about many of the politically correct policies I was expected to swallow and regurgitate for my students back then.
Of course, I did (and do) believe that every student is responsible for his own education, and that anyone can accomplish just about anything he puts his mind to if he's willing to make the sacrifices necessary for success. When talk of college came up in my classroom, I was quick to point out that every single kid in the room was capable of getting good grades, going on to college, and getting almost anything he or she wanted in life. I most certainly did not discourage my students from aspiring to academia after high school. However, I did make it perfectly clear that they did not "need" to go to college to be successful.
What I told them was that they, in fact, would need to learn how to read, to write, to learn how to multiply and divide accurately, to think logically, to speak in coherent sentences, to respect others, and to understand that they were the only ones who could determine whether they would be successful or not.
Though the school had a 70 percent minority enrollment, there was no black, brown, or white in my classroom; aside from only a handful of "normal" students, the vast majority comprised a technicolor array of kids who were growing up on the wrong side of the tracks and needed all the proper guidance adults could provide them. I told them that the world was full of plumbers and construction workers and electricians and hair stylists and UPS drivers who probably all made more money than their humble teacher; that anyone who employed the aforementioned skills could open up her own business and learn how to do her own accounting or inventory management or interviews for new employees. But more importantly, I told them that anyone who had a decent academic skill set could find employment just about anywhere.
So thanks, Karen, for making me realize that even when I hardly knew anything, I at least knew enough not to force my students to flounder in the self-righteous ramblings of their government schools.
Comments
Will you tell your own children they don't need to go to college?
If it's $100k a year for a below average education at that point (and I'm expected to pay for it), you bet your sweet patoot.
I believe, however, you're intentionally taking my comments out of context. I obviously said that college is not for everyone despite what students are told at the earlist levels of public schooling, and I shared some negative effects of pushing all kids to college.
To argue that all kids are even suited for college, much less that it is 'required' for success, is either a product of naivete or intellectual dishonesty. But if my son wants to be a doctor, why, I suppose I'd tell him it would be smart to pursue university instruction.
I was just curious. I have three children in college. None of them knew what they wanted to do when they started but it never crossed my mind to tell them they didn't really need to go.
I don't think there are really all that many jobs today that one can get and actually make a living without a college education. When I graduated from high school in the 1970s, it was a different story.
I actually agree with you that college isn't for everyone. But I don't think there is a lot of opportunity out there for the people who don't go. I'm not saying I know what the best thing is for every person.
My hair stylist, who is very good at what she does, can't afford health insurance though her child receives medicare (or is it medicaid?). Her husband works two full time jobs. They are struggling to make it. But of course, that is just one person and I don't know what the average hair stylist makes.
You're absolutely right that even a college degree today is worth about as much as a high school diploma from a generation ago - ironically, a direct result of the saturation of graduate degrees in the marketplace.
I also think it's unfortunate that so many people really don't know what they want to do when they're 18, which means any number of kids are faced with tens of thousands of dollars of loans for degrees that essentially are worthless when they change their minds a few years down the road. Personally, if I had to do it all over again, I would major in business or something that is much more broadly applicable than education degrees. Lots of good they're doing me now that I entirely oppose government schooling!
We have to understand that the college education is an industry like any other - only there is a lot of meddling by government even in private universities. This obviously impacts supply and demand in a different manner than a totally free market would.
I'm glad I went to college and I'd probably go back in a heartbeat, especially given the experiences I had there that were totally unrelated to the academic portion. But believe me, there are days I wish I still poured beer for a living! (And no, I can't make a living yet at writing.)
A college education can actually narrow your mind. The evidence of this is all of the educated idiots (mainly the ones educated in finance)who are creating a financial disaster for all of us. Bummer they will have no real skills when things really start spinning out of control. Those who can build things will thrive.
I've recently been introduced to libertarianism and Austrian economic theory at the worst possible time in my life: I'm currently attending a (very expensive!) private liberal arts college, pursuing a master's degree in Education and and bachelor's in English. I plan to teach at the high school level.
Is it possible, ethical, or right to be a public school teacher as an Austro-libertarian? If so, how am I to reconcile my beliefs with my intended occupation and not outright contradict myself?
What alternative careers are there for those who don't attend college? I ask this not out of skepticism, but out of curiosity.
"I can related to this argument yesterday by Karen DeCoster"
Where did YOU attend college? Proofread your text next time.
Josh,
There are plenty of jobs available for non-college graduates in the trades. Welders, carpenters, cabinet makers, auto mechanics, mechanics etc. Many of these jobs pay more than someone would make with a college degree (ie social worker, etc.)
An anecdote. My father learned to weld when he was 26. He went to work for and recently retired from a large power company. He consistently made more than 50K per year, sometimes topping 90K with overtime. He owns a nice home, two cars (paid for), and saved more than 800k for retirement.
Makes sense. I teach at a community college and, while many of my students seems to enjoy my classes, I wonder how many of them will get an education that will propel them into something. A few do very well. Collectively, grade averages are dropping year by year, study habits are deteriorating, problem solving and logic skills are non-existant, and many just want the "powerpoints" rather than take notes.
They start the semester class with "knowledge" about global warming, offshore drilling, nuclear energy (etc.) that is faulty at best. Where did they get this? High school (or the media). "My science teacher told me offshore drilling harms the environment."
When I was working in industry, it was rare to see people with MSs and PhDs unless they were in research or academia. While reading Mr. Bothwell's piece,I couldn't help thinking about Ben Barnanke's bragging about being an "student" on the Great Depression. He is afterall, a product of our education system and is in the very dangerous position of being the Fed Chief.
I'm learning about the Austro-libertarian-objectivist (that's a mouthful) and have been in the public sector for most of my career (along with the military). I like to think that if we had more of such people in education and military we can influence far more from within the system than outside of it. Last month, one of my students got into an argument with a colleague about global "warming."
My colleague was very frustrated because she was losing.
So it does work.
edward:Thanks for setting pencil pusher Josh straight. I would be willing to bet you a thousand dollars Josh couldn't even change a flat tire. Plumbers-Iron workers-Electricians-Auto Workers-Steel Workers-Factories(Budweiser,Kelloggs,Proctor&Gamble etc.) all probably make better than most college grads especially with overtime.
Gosh, where do I start? I graduated from a private liberal arts college in Oregon and stand on top of 50K+ in student loan debt. My degree is in humanities. I am a recent proponestudent of Austrian economics and am seriously upset that I chose this educational route. I remember distincly being told by my academic advisor that companies like to hire liberal arts students because we are "good critical thinkers". That may be true but, really, I think he just wanted to make sure that I attended that school so it would get my tuition money. I was recently accepted to grad school but turned it down at the last minute. I just loooked at how much debt I would have at the end of it. The return on investment for being a counseling psychologist just didn't justify what it was going to cost me. Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be liberal arts or social science majors...tell 'em to become plumbers and car mechanics.
Dirty Harry: I'm not sure that I see anything in Josh's comment that warrants your mean-spirited comments. I think he's just asking a question. That being said, I've done the blue-collar thing, and while it's true that you can make a lot of money, the jobs can be physically degenerating or just plain unsafe. Money won't buy your eyes or lungs back after you've been welding for 30 years, and in all my office years, I've never seen a nasty stapler accident. And I've worked with mean people in offices, but my blue-collar coworkers were much more likely to say things like "I'll bet a thousand dollars you can't even change a flat tire" to someone they just met. As you can see, it provokes a response, and that downward spiral is much of what's wrong with society these days. Strangers aren't polite any more. ;)
Josh: I don't have a college degree, and I've been a graphic designer, an IT technician, an IT administrator, and have been an instructional designer for the past 4 years. The company I work for is encouraging me to get a degree, but they're willing to pay for the tuition, so it's not all bad. Long story short, solid portfolios and clarity in communication work wonders for getting you hired, no matter what your sheepskin status is. If you haven't attended college and are looking for employment, passionately pursue your interests. The information is out there, whether it's online, or at a bookstore, or in an interest group. Companies are realizing that they're foolish to pass up the person who lives, sleeps, eats and breathes computer programming for the CS graduate whose second question at the interview is about the health insurance.
I'm in sales.
By the time i'm 22 I'll have my dream car, a house, and be making $100k a year. (that's average for my company with 4yrs experience)
My buddy? He'll be looking for a job with his degree along with 30,000 other students his age.
College is overrated?! I think not! That is just an asinine statement. Now I would agree that going for a degree in philosophy or english or history --though interesting-- without a career plan is dangerous. But not everyone attending college is going for those types of degrees. Most people that I know that are in college are going because the career they want to get into requires a degree -- engineering, teaching, architecture, actuarial science, medicine... Not everyone in the world wants to be a f...ing Iron worker or welder or auto worker (though those are certainly respectable trades). I think there are two types of people who say that college is overrated: those who majored in philosophy and can't find a job, and those who never went to college and deep down inside regret it.
The fact is, a college degree IS necessary in order to pursue, with success, many career fields.
P.S No offense intended to those of you who are iron workers or welders or auto workers.
my sausage is very large like a humpback whale. it looks like an anteater because the foreskin cover my red sausage inside and it looks very animalistic...very scary
oh yeah, well i got a bag of eels that cant fly, with boots on.
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