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Salt Lake City Utah LDS templeGay rights activist, Fred Karger, founder of Californians against Hate (http://www.californiansagainsthate.com), accused the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints of playing a role in establishing the National Organization for Marriage (NOM). NOM started in the Northeast and opened an office California last year.
Karger’s complaint was filed with the California Fair Political Practices Commission (FPPC) and urged the FPPC to investigate earlier activities of the LDS Church. The FPPC is already investigating the church’s involvement in the passing of Proposition 8.
Deseret News reported that LDS Church spokesperson Scott Trotter stated, "The church is unconcerned about Mr. Karger's newest complaint. Mr. Karger has again made claims that have no basis in fact, and this newest round of allegations follows the same pattern. As we have said before, he is entitled to his opinion but not to his own version of the facts."
One defining characteristic of anything the LDS Church publishes or endorses is their logo. The NOM does not carry the church’s logo. This is yet another attempt to trample on and ruin the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it will not work. The Church has stood its ground and will not budge on its beliefs, and it will not give in to erroneous and baseless allegations against it. The Church did nothing wrong and will continue to stand up and fight for traditional marriage.
Comments
No matter what happens, the LDS church promoted the discrimination toward people born different from straight people. The sad part is that this "marriage" would not have hurt them! What they did was far more horrific than two people made differently by God, getting committed to each other, and sharing the rights of their brothers and sisters. The LDS Church can continue to take their righteous stand, but they cannot escape: WHAT ONE SOWS, SO SHALL THEY REAP ... THAT THAT DOESN'T EXCLUDE CHURCHES! May these Goliath institution meet their fate by the karma of the persecuted!
What the LDS church did was wrong. Plain and simple. It might not be legally wrong, but it is morally wrong. Discrimination is wrong-taking away someone's rights because they are different is wrong. The LDS church likes to discriminate. Let's not forget that at one time they said anyone of African decent would not get into heaven, and even cast the role of Satan in the temple video as a black man. They are a bunch of bullies.
The LDS church lies when it works for them. They lied about practicing polygamy until around 1910. They lied about their donations to support Prop 8. Who knows what the real story is?
Any religious organization that has a political agenda should be taxed just like any business that deals with the public at large.
It's high time "we the people" start hitting these religous/political enities where it really hurts, in their pocket books.
I firmly believe religon should stay totally out of politics. If they can't, tax them just like any corporation.
This is why these churchs like the LDS can get away with what they do. There are way too many loopholes in the laws that will allow this type of stuff to happen.
If our country started taxing these churches, our national debt would be erased virtually overnight.
LDS practices Lying for the Lord as a matter of policy. Why should we believe anything they say about anything?
The LDS church is weak. I was mormon once, i know where they are weak. Don't give in. Mormons want social acceptance even more than homosexuals. Mormons fear intellectuals, they fear anyone that disagrees with them, they fear anyone that does not give money to their church.
Here we go again. If you are going to post, please only list the truth and the facts.
@Bruce - Mormon's don't fear intellectuals. In fact, they have the highest percentage of advanced degrees than any other religious group.
@Kira - You are referring to the FLDS "Lying for the Lord". The real Mormons do not advocate that.
@Mike - Know your tax laws. Notice: No penalties yet assessed to the church....wonder why? "Sour Grapes maybe".
@Suzy - 4 million evangelicals were registered with the KKK. It was the evangelicals who lynched blacks and still refuse them in all white churches. All the Mormons did was deny them an ordination, not baptism. Never has a black been used to depict Satan.
@Steven - Discrimination? Nature discriminated against them first. You can be pro-traditional marriage without being anti-gay. Use your generalizations some where else.
How intellectual can they be? They believe in a myth and magic.
Actually Shelly, Satan was portrayed as a black man. There were so many complaints they pulled that movie.
Additionally, if you are LDS you know that the church considers the temple ordinances neccesary for the celesial kingdom. By denying anyone of African decent the opportunity to enter the temple, they denied them the ability to get into heaven.
In fact, Elder Mark Peterson in 1957, said that the only way a Negro would get into heaven was as a servant.
It appears like most members of the LDS church (including me when I was active) you don't know the history because they do a great job hiding the truth.
Suzy, the LDS church denies no one the ability to get into heaven. In fact, because of the work done in the temples, every single person on earth will have the opportunity to receive all of the blessings in store for them. What other church offers something in it's doctrine as fair? The Catholic church damns everyone who is not baptized, even if they have never heard of Jesus, including babies. What defense do you have for any other religion? Surely, the LDS Church has done a better job at representing God as a fair and merciful God more so than any other faith. According to LDS doctrine, everyone will go to heaven, except for a few members of the mormon faith who will be cast into outer darkness along with Satan and his demons for having a sure knowledge of Christ (not just faith, but an actual witness) and denying Christ. So, there will be more Mormons in hell who came to this earth than any other religion, and everyone else will go to a gloious place which God has prepared specifically for them to provide them to be the happiest they can be.
If Mormons think black people will not go to heaven, why then is the gospel preached to people in Africa? Hmmm...
Of course, it is to be expected that the true Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter Day Saints) will have such lies spread about it.
Sheelly:
I don't debate the issue of whether the church is taxed or not. What I do say is they should be. This means, changing our tax laws to reflect it and maybe even changing some of the constitution. By rights, it should say in some form that there will be total seperation between church and state. Take any reference of religon off all money, especially in god we trust. Take all references to religon off all public building. Have absolutey NO religious displays on any public property during the christmas season.
Ryan, as of now the church does not deny someone the ability to get into heaven. However, that was not always the case. The LDS church changes things when it is easier for them to. Go back and read what Brigham Young wrote, and a few other earlier leaders. Oh wait, let me guess, they were speaking as men, not prophets.
And what is up with the persecution complex? I mean really! "Of course, it is to be expected that the true Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter Day Saints) will have such lies spread about it. " The LDS church is not having "such lies" spread about it. It has lied for so long that it's members no longer know the truth. Ask someone who was an LDS church member in the 50's. Missionaries were even discouraged from preaching to anyone of color.
It is sad that a religion that fought so hard for others to stay out of their bedroom and their marriage rights in it's early days, is now causing problems for others in that same way.
Shelly, one other thing. The 4 million KKK members were not claiming to be God's only true and living prophet and the only church that had the entire truth on the face of the earth.
It amazes me how gay marriage proponents cry foul when marriage rights are not given to same-sex couples, but they completely object to such rights being given to consenting polygamist unions. Why would they deny civil rights to them. I am sure there are all sorts of sexual unions involving more than two people. They may even love each other. If marriage is a civil right, why are gay couples wanting to deny that civil right to polygamous groups. Are they for hate after all. There might be even more historical basis for polygamous marriages from ancient times than there is recongition of same-sex marriages. Seems strange to condemn polygamous marriage, yet the gay-marriage agenda seems wanting to condemn it.
Suzy - When God makes a prophet, he doesn't take away the man. Many prophets through the corridors of time have made serious mistakes,and they were not wiped from the history books. With the exception of Christ himself, NO ONE has passed this mortal experience perfect. The Lord has not stopped using prophets as his mouthpiece just because some have made human errors.
It is the "meat" of the church and it's doctrines I am more concerned with that have withstood scrutiny and the test of time. It is also where I have received thousands of confirmations from the Holy Ghost of it's truthfulness. I have tried other religions and no, I have not had those same confirmations. Whether or not someone else "believes" doesn't bother me. I have received my answer and I am responsible for that.
I can find unlimited errors in all religions caused by humans who have misconstrued, misinterpreted, and blatantly lied to deceive. We must get very good at hearing the right messages and moving in the direction that brings us continuous personal revelation.
Did you know that Joseph Smith baptized and ordained a black man? That alone tells me that Brigham Young was having a knee jerk reaction when he stopped the ordination of blacks because of one incident that occurred shortly after arriving in the valley. He was part of the generation that still had slaves and sometimes those prejudices are hard to erase. It's not a core doctrine and it's a wonderful thing that it has been corrected to be in alignment with all the truths about our destiny.
I have been going through the temple since the 70's and I have never seen a black man portrayed in the temple. Prior to that, the ceremony was "acted" out, not on film and I seriously doubt a black man was in the temple.
I will keep searching your comment for curiosity, but it may be one of those incidents where an error was made and an apology should follow in it's steps. It doesn't take away from all the other revelation that has been restored to the earth.
AJ:
Personally, I don't have any objections about pologmy. In fact, I rather like it. If you are so declined, I don't see anything wrong with having as many wifes as you wish.
I do highly object to anything to do with minors, family incest though.
So, as long as this subject stays on an adult level, I don't see anything wrong at all.
First of all the Lds Church never said that black people won't go to heaven or ever forbid them to attend church or baptism. This may have been stated by people in the church. The LDS General authorities have to all agree on beliefs before they are official. If one disagrees it does not become church policy or beliefs. If it is a belief of the LDS Church it will be at general conference or appear in documents baring the church name. If a church leader did state this it was their own opinion. It does confuse me that the mormons get labeled as the racist when other churches escape this stereotype. Especially since the only thing blacks were denied was baptism. They were not denied membership like most churches denied them. As to gay marriage I personally don't care if the same sex get married or not. Yet why is the mormon church getting centred out more then other churches? For mormon like me that are on the fence about gay marriage. These attacks on the church don't make us more sympathitic to gay marrage. People in California voted and just because they did vote they way some would like doesn't me that people should attack a religion or people for voting on their personal belief system. People do have a right to vote their personal beliefs.
@shelly- Know your statistics, The highest percentage of advanced degrees is held by followers of judaism. The Mormon Church rates high, but not even close.
and about being pro tradtional marriage without being anti gay. What a joke. It works if you use the Mormon "love" for gays, which is nothing more than a sad excuse of acceptance. The "we know your troubles", and we feel sad for them is outright discrimination.
As for the church not being racist, whoever was that denied that, tell me when the church authorized black members to recieve the melchizedek priesthood? And upon what basis.
It was on 1978 (woah get with the program people, if you want to be "normal" you should have done that a few years earlier, OR NOT HAVE DISCRIMINATED FROM THE START)
The reason was because of the fornications of their ancestors (talk about fairness, if my daddy is a sinner I get to pay for it). So YES I will say it out loud, Mormonism has shown CLEAR signs of bigotry for no logical reason.
They didn't even back common ground initiative in Utah that was gonna give gays the right to not be FIRED for being Gay (yes, in Utah, they can fire you, and there is nothing to do about it) even though after prop 8 the church issued a statement that said they didn't hate gays and they would back them up on issues like that, and they didn't. They where asked to but, no cherry. (sure would have been nice, since they get to have their own private meetings with both parties here in Utah to discuss their agendas, a privilege no one else gets in this state, talk about political involvement)
Thank "god" I just received my confirmation of my lds records being removed, it's going on my wall.
oh, and that bit about blacks not getting the highest degree of priesthood because of their ancestor's doings, that's doctrine, approved and stamped doctrine, that was later changed by the presidency, I bit too late (late by about, the however many years this church has been around.)
And just because the prophet is a human, doesn't mean that we have to "understand his difficulty as a prophet and mouthpiece of the lord" and that he can F up. Not when it affects me and my family, no we can't.
@AJ, I (not the whole gay movement) am ALL FOR POLYGAMY, if that is what floats your boat, as long as it is consenting adults who are making a conscious decision , regardless of sex (no "only a man can marry a bunch of women" but also the other way around, hell, mix and match if you want) there is nothing wrong with it. It provides important rights to couples (whoops I mean groups) that decide to embark on the marriage road, and it assigns responsibilities and benefits that will protect the children of such families.
If I remember right, there was this one religion that partook of it, what was it called, oh yeah the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, and even though they don't any more (only the FLDS do, but they are not associated) they used to. But I forgot, Polygamy is only good when the Lord says so, and not just any lord, Not Allah, Jehova, or whoverer else, but the mormon lord ( i detect a violation of the first amendment in the process).
Ah Momons and how they change their doctrine left and right all the time.
So, to paraphrase, "Our logo's not on the NOM ad, so therefore we're not involved and not responsible for anything NOM does." Where's the logic there? I'm so tired of the Mormons doing their dirty deeds in secret and then denying any responsibility for their actions. Then, acting like the persecuted victims when the rest of the world doesn't pat them on the back for their so-called "beliefs." I'm glad they're under investigation-- as should any organization that wants tax-free status and yet actively works to destroy the rights of anyone who doesn't believe as they do.
God desires that none should be lost or fallen from grace. The Bible doesn't specifically turn away gay practices. In fact, King David and Prince Jonathan had a VERY close relationship. David cried out that Jonathan's love was more to him than that of women when he learned of his death. So....why don't Mormons start using the living word of God and not the deceitful word of Joseph Smith the treasure seeker for their reference against gays.
Wow ... WHERE is the love? ... "Marriage between a man and a woman IS ordained of God" ... thats it!.. the most Basic natural law of heaven. Whatever your sexual preference is that is your choice! Thats OK! But some must understand this most BASIC and SACRED Law.. Well, that is how I feel anyway. If Ive offended anybody.. than Im sorry but If you feel the way you do.. that is your choice just live your life the best way you can and BE HAPPY! Respect each others preferences and beliefs and make the most of your life. These issues are really sensitive and need to be discussed amongst those we love. Help/Teach each other to have respect for each others beliefs. Being LDS and with a couple of gay members in the family has been a blessing. We dont see eye to eye on certain 'issues' But when it comes to family ... we must respect and help each other out! Lifes too short so we must make the most of it and show a little R.E.S.P.E.C.T!! xox
Many gay folks have no problems with polygamy, or polyamory as it is more frequently known these days. Don't assume that all gays are against polygamy.
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