We hold these Truths to be self-evident
Van Jones, an advisor to President Obama signed a 9/11 Truth petition. Charlie Sheen challenges President Obama for a 20-minute discussion for 9/11 Truth. Who are these people? What is their evidence? What do they want?
As a teacher of high school US History courses, I attempted to professionally address this question with an appropriate classroom lesson. BTW, this issue is among the top few historical questions that my high school students want answered. I developed a critical thinking case study on 9/11; one of many lessons for students to vote on among competing supplemental lessons. The lesson has a preamble on critical thinking skills I’ll provide in a subsequent article.
Below is the strongest evidence from both the pro-government explanation and counter-government, as compiled by interested colleagues, parents, students, and my examination since 2004. My role in the lesson is to present the evidence (inviting students and parents to contribute) and guide students for their analysis under my motto Res ipsa loquitur, best translated as “the facts speak for themselves.” This worked best when I presented it to the principal and department first, then gave parents the lesson for questions and input, and then directed the lesson for students. Here it is:
9/11: Conspiracy of Terrorists or an Inside Job? In national polls from 2006, about one-third of Americans reported that 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government (here, here, here, here), while up to 84% state that our government is at least covering-up key facts of what happened. A CNN poll topped-out at 90% reporting that our government is covering-up elements of 9/11. In a 2004 Zogby poll, half of the residents of New York City reported that our government at least knew of the attacks and consciously did not prevent them, and two-thirds want a new and independent investigation. Half of victims’ family members conclude the US government was complicit in the attacks and deaths of their loved ones, according to the largest family group’s public representative.
This “9/11 Truth Movement” is growing: over 2,000 people with impressive professional backgrounds in engineering, architecture, intelligence, military, government, and various Ph.D credentials publicly refute the official explanations. Professional scientists have published literally dozens of peer-reviewed papers in argument that the three World Trade Center (WTC) buildings were destroyed by controlled demolition rather than fire-induced structural failure. Over 1,300 professional architects and engineers have compiled impressive visual demonstrations. Professional pilots have done the same. Professional firefighters, lawyers, medical professionals, military veterans, scholars, and religious leaders have also created organizations for "9/11 Truth."
This credible collection of expert witnesses is remarkable, with their conclusions reflected in the polling. An example of this expert testimony is Princeton professor of International Law Richard Falk, who poignantly refutes many aspects of the government’s explanation of 9/11. The rationality of this counter-government position is also reflected in the prestigious literary guide, Publisher’s Weekly, selecting a 9/11 Truth book as its “Pick of the Week” in November, 2008. In 2009, nine countries' major media published full and truthful representations of this information. There is also a growing number of government officials who refute the official explanations.
That's who they are and openings into their evidence. What they want is an independent investigation into 9/11 that considers their evidence rather than the government's self-study that they claim is a whitewash.
For background, I’ll show portions of “CNN Tribute - America Remembers.” I’ll explain the purpose and conclusions of the 9/11 Commission. In support of the government explanation, I’ll remind students that this version is what they’ve learned from mainstream media and their history books, show portions of the DVD from NOVA, “Why the Towers Fell,” consider and discuss MIT Professor Thomas Eagar’s academic paper on the topic, along with an update published in the December, 2007 issue of “Journal of Metals, Minerals and Materials.” We’ll discuss the academic and professional standards of peer review and publication for scientific claims. We’ll also look at film clips of Senator John McCain, and Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly interviewing “Popular Mechanics” Editor, James Meigs, for typical government and media responses to counter-government claims, and Presidents Clinton and Bush’s (and counter-govt. Bush clip) responses to allegations of government conspiracy.
For the government “inside job” argument, we’ll see the first 5 chapters of the DVD, “Loose Change 2nd Edition,” a ten-minute summary of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth's video "Blueprint for Truth," review photographic evidence from Shanksville, PA, review the flight recorder data from flight AA77 into the Pentagon, consider and discuss Dr. David Ray Griffin’s academic paper, consider the aforementioned expert testimony from over 1,400 professionals in related fields, consider a paper explaining the government's shifting explanations and lack of evidence about the alleged hijackers' being on the flights, and examine the current status of peer-reviewed papers on scientific analysis, including a published paper proving government-created nanothermite (demolition explosive) remaining in WTC dust. We’ll consider a compendium of the evidence from professional journalists. We’ll also watch the last scene from the DVD, “Fahrenheit 9/11” and President Bush’s press conference after his 9/11 Commission testimony (sorry - no link), about 5 minutes of President Eisenhower’s Farewell Address commenting on the “military-industrial complex,” and about 5 minutes of President Kennedy’s speech to the press against secrecy in government. We’ll also view testimony in Japan’s Parliament where the leading opposition party leader questioned their Prime Minister regarding the lack of evidence the US has presented regarding 9/11 relevant to Japan’s funding for refueling US warships. A worthy video that we will not see is a 2008 documentary that was shown on national television in Italy and Russia, “Zero,” available for viewing on the Internet.
After the presentations of both positions’ arguments and class discussions, students will have a choice of assessments. One is a test where I’ll assign five of the following short-answer questions. We will discuss these questions and answers, and students will have opportunity to take notes:
1. Explain the 9/11 Commission’s purpose and conclusion. Explain two criticisms of this report.
2. Explain FEMA and NIST's version of why the three WTC buildings “collapsed.” Explain a criticism against this argument.
3. Explain two details of the photographic and/or film evidence that challenge the 9/11 Commission findings. Explain a criticism against each of the two details.
4. Explain two details of the circumstantial evidence that support US government involvement in the attacks. Explain a criticism against each of the two details.
5. Explain two details of the individual terrorists, Al Qaeda, and/or Osama bin Laden that challenge the 9/11 Commission findings. Explain a criticism against each of the two details.
6. Explain 2 details of the argument that elements within the US government had the means, motive, and opportunity to cause the 9/11 attacks. Explain a criticism against each of the two details.
Students may also choose to respond to the following essay topic or create their own, give a talk to the class, give a PowerPoint presentation, or create some other project (see me for my approval). The essay or alternate assessments are due within one week of the written test. Students may do more than one assessment for extra credit. Essay topic:
Explain how the 9/11 attacks happened with at least three details of independently verifiable evidence. Choose the opponent’s strongest argument and refute it.
That's the lesson. Below is a 3-minute preview of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth's DVD with their presentation of the evidence, and Bill O'Reilly's 4-minute interview with Popular Mechanic's editor James Meigs to debunk 9/11 Truth claims.
As always, share with all who say they want to be competent citizens. If you appreciate my work, please subscribe by clicking under the article title (it's free).
Comments
nice article
This is what America is supposed to be about: Debate, critical thinking and freedom of thought and expression. I commend what you are doing, Mr. Herman!
It would be great if the mainstream media included some of the following in their reporting about 9/11.
"41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11" which can be read at the website PatriotsQuestion911.com/#Articles
thank you.
Great to see real debate on this issue. Thanks for the article. I will be sharing this with others.
Carl,
Thanks for the article and the videos. (I just posted one of the videos on my forum.)
I still have trouble accepting the idea of heavy structural steel pancaking straight down vertically. I used to be a shipfitter when I was younger, and I welded, cut, heated, bent, and worked with heavy structural steel. I've never seen heard of any heavy I-beam structure pancaking straight downward. And given that the bottom half of the building wasn't even heated up from the fire, it seems even less possible for it to have happened.
I used to work underneath heavy sections of ships held up by much weaker steel supports, and never saw them pancake or compress any. The notion that over 1/2 the height of a building's I-beam support pancaked on itself--due simply to its weight--is impossible for me to believe.
real jouralism ahhh!
go to www.911missinglinks.com to find out who the perps were
through deception thou shalt make war
"Res ipsa loquitur, best translated as “the facts speak for themselves."
This gets to the very heart of the 9/11 issue. Many conspiracy theories fail this test, but so do many of the aspects of the official government account.
Thank you for reporting on this.
Wow. Excellent article. Essays like this are truly rare in these times.
Thank God for teachers like you!!
Thank you for teaching your students to THINK!!!
I don't care what anyone decides to think, as long as they have examined the evidence and made their OWN decision.
Don't let the govt or media TELL you what to think!!
And yes, the facts speak for themselves!
"All truth passes through 3 stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed
Third, it is accepted as self evident"
- Arthur Schopenhauer
That is one of the best articles about 9/11 truth. Great amount of links to research!
Thanks
Excellent, well constructed post! It's very refeshing to see a non bias post based on critical thinking. I think a seperate S.E.C. investigation should also add based on the following article:
INSIDER TRADING
by Michael C. Ruppert - April 22, 2002
The documented pre-Sept. 11 insider trading that occurred before the attacks involved only companies hit hard by the attacks. They include United Airlines, American Airlines, Morgan Stanley, Merrill-Lynch, Axa Reinsurance, Marsh & McLennan, Munich Reinsurance, Swiss Reinsurance, and Citigroup.
...
To quote 60 Minutes from Sept. 19, "Sources tell CBS News that the afternoon before the attack, alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in the U.S. stock options market."
911research.wtc7.net/sept11/stockputs.html#
It's a very good article. My only concerns are the suggestion that planes didn't hit at the Pentagon or Pennsylvannia, linking to the pilots group and to "killtown". Killtown is a notorious disruptor and claims that holograms were used on 9/11, is connected to the webfairy. And the Pentagon debate is just that -- a debate. The best most recent source of information on that topic is by Dr. Frank Legge in his paper, "What Hit The Pentagon" at the Journal of 9/11 Studies. He concludes this way:
"Those who are not of the opinion that a 757 hit the Pentagon should bear in mind that it is possible that they have been deliberately deceived by false evidence and have been set up by this evidence to serve the purpose of the perpetrators, when the time comes. Application of the precautionary principle would result in investigators taking care to avoid the assertion that the 757 did not hit the Pentagon."
> 2. Explain the 9/11 Commission version of why the three WTC buildings “collapsed.”
This is a flawed question. The 911 Commission was not made up of professional engineers and its task never involved answering engineering questions, which were outside of the competence of Commission members. The 911 Commission was only tasked with examining how the purported hijackings had been carried out. Questions about building collapses were not included in its assignment.
Patrick: good catch of the error; thank you. I fixed it as FEMA and NIST's version.
PatrickSMcNally the question isn't flawed. The Commission didn't have to be made up of engineers, and it did have to answer engineering questions, to fulfill its legal mandate. The Commission was enjoined by Public Law 107 306 (PL). PL Section 602 makes clear that the Commission was to provide an explanation for everything that happened at Ground Zero that day:
(1)examine and report upon the facts and causes relating
to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, occurring at
the World Trade Center in New York, New York, in Somerset
County, Pennsylvania, and at the Pentagon in Virginia;
"Facts and causes" means the reasons the buildings collapsed (aka)
No they weren't engineers, but most of them weren't FAA officials, intelligence, and high ranking military personnel etc either but they commented on those issues.
The Commission should have brought engineers in to explain the collapse of the buildings. That was their mandate
“The Port Authority closed the 1990s with a stream of press releases announcing the rental of unimaginable huges quantities of Trade Center office space to “Cutting Edge” firms like Sun Microsystems. Yet around the complex A MILLION SQAURE FEET STOOD EMPTY, and the building originaly intended as great catalizing chambers of world trade were by degrees, transforming into a kind of DISJUNTIVE REAL ESTATE LAYER-CAKE. One story above the carpeted, wood- paneled offices of a Japanese securities firm, A GROUP OF ARTIST FILLED BARE WALL WITH BOLDLY COLLORED IMAGES AND HUNG SCULPURES FROM THE EXPOSED CEILING GIRDERS OF VAST ECHOING CAVERNS. As part of the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council program that TURN SOME OF THE VACANT SPACE IN THE TOWER OVER TO ARTIST RENT FREE, 40.000 SQUARE FEET OF CONCRETE FLOOR lay painted and strewn with the Raw materials of creative urge that has never been easily reconciled with the imperatives of a bottom line. Under such conditions, one could begin to read in th
As part of the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council program that TURN SOME OF THE VACANT SPACE IN THE TOWER OVER TO ARTIST RENT FREE, 40.000 SQUARE FEET OF CONCRETE FLOOR lay painted and strewn with the Raw materials of creative urge that has never been easily reconciled with the imperatives of a bottom line. Under such conditions, one could begin to read in the Trade Center symptoms of an internal fragmentation quite at odds with the image of a thriving, Class-A lower Manhattan Office Complex.”Pages 191-192 Divided We Stand Eric Darton (1999)
(previos post is from the same source and same page)
“The Downtown Lower Manhattan Association and Department of City Planning, in their joint 1993 Plan for Lower Manhattan, proposed RADICALLY CULLING THE HERD OF OLDER BUILDINGS. The suggestion of even broader plazas, in place of OBSOLETE SKYSCRAPPERS, put a positive spin on an OFF-THE RECORD OBSERVATION BY THE DLMA spokesman that in order to stabilize property values, SEVERAL DOZEN DOWNTOWN OFFICE BUILDINGS WOULD SIMPLY HAVE TO BE RAZED.”Page 206 Divided We Stand Eric Darton(1999)
Thank you for acknowledging our work. We have yet another update coming soon with more professional aviators joining our ranks. Feel free to contact us for a personal interview. I'm in the Knoxville area.
Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org
The Following testimony is from Dennis Smith (FDNY Ret). Author of Report from Engine Company 82. Honorary Chief FDNY (Lots of time on) This is a desciption of WTC7 from the about the time after the second (T2) Collapse. He is now on Vessey and West st pulling 6 and Half inch hose from FireBoat Harvey. He describes the following: “I learn then that the Chief has been clearing the area in anticipation of the collapse of the forty-seven stories of WTC7. Suddenly, several hundred firefighters are milling about, and when the order is given we all are moved back another few hundred feet from the corner of vessey and West. We just mingle there, talking quietly, I meet a police captain, and ask if he has seen joe dunne, the first deputy Commisioner. The captain shakes his head and say, “It’s not Good, what I hear.” Page 175 Report From Ground Zero (Dennis Smith) ” All of a sudden the forty seven story building before us begions to shake. “Its Coming down,” someone yells, and everyone gets poi
” All of a sudden the forty seven story building before us begions to shake. “Its Coming down,” someone yells, and everyone gets poised to run in the oposite direction, I head to the with a small group into the bagelshop at the uptown side of the street, but I am watching the building as it begins to crumble, It falls almost as if in slow motion, sinking straight down, and then leans to the south, leaving most of its rubble against the north wall of building 6.” “I wait for the dark cloud of concrte dust to come hurtling towards us, but it rolls in the other direction, towards the northeast” Page 176 Report from Ground Zero (Dennis Smith)
9/11 Truthers are not conspiracy theorists. Conspiracy theorists believe in a specific hypothesis alleging that members of a coordinated group are, and/or were, secretly working together to commit illegal or wrongful actions.
Most 9/11 Truthers, on the other hand, simply just want a new, improved investigation of the 9/11 events. There are
still many questions that have not been answered.
Matt: the term “conspiracy theory” is both an ad hominem and straw-man attack that professionals in every field reject. Oh, except for most professional politicians who reject the science part of their political science work. The slur calls the person crazy instead of properly addressing the evidence, and gives a false impression of the evidence as easily refuted instead of attempting to refute the evidence directly.
The big question I see is if humanity is ready to grow-up collectively to embrace facts rather than emotional rhetoric. The facts do set us free, but will probably make us really angry first. Please recall that my policy recommendation is Truth and Reconciliation; feel free to look-up that article. I make that argument to encourage those who want a “Scrooge conversion” to expose and help end criminality in exchange for their ability to live out the rest of their lives. Those who don’t reveal everything they know will be subject to criminal prosecution.
And let's not forget the government's version of 9/11 is a conspiracy theory, a racist one at that.
thank you.
The only people who not only didn't benefit from the disaster
but suffered terribly because of it are the people accused of
perpetrating it without any hard evidence or demonstrated ability that they did. On top of that they are denied any opportunity to defend themselves. Are there any further questions???
Thank you for taking an unbiased look at this. The "truth" movement is split into factions, those of us that want a real investigation and will accept it's findings, and those who want to convince people that there were no planes they were holograms, or had magic pods on them, or space weapons.
Why did the laws of physics not apply to the WTC towers and WTC7 ? Why is the government and MsM so afraid of answering, or even approaching these questions?
We hear constantly that we are crazy "conspiracy nutz" and we're evil holocaust deniers and such.
Well, if you are so sure we are wrong, investigate and prove it.
I tell you know, I would love to be wrong, I wish I was wrong, but sadly, I did well in Physics and simply can not ignore those basic laws because "Popular Mechanics" or Bush tells me to.
Something to note, some of the material mentioned is flawed, Loose Change final cut should be used, and you should be aware Popular Mechanics used flawed and fabricated simulatio
Good work, Carl. 9/11 brings the opportunity to teach critical thinking skills vital to an informed and competent citizenry.
One small quibble: Your heading "9/11: Conspiracy of Terrorists or an Inside Job?" is a false dichotomy. 9/11 was a conspiracy of terrorists even if it was an inside job. That it was an act of terrorism is indisputable. The only question is who did it.
It's those that think that come up with truth even if they can't convence the unbelievers.
*Bill O'Reilly's 4-minute interview with Popular Mechanic's editor James Meigs to debunk 9/11 Truth claims."
It might be helpful to note that the boss at Popular Mechanics when the PM shill was published was none other than the Nephew of PNAC ("a new Pearl Harbor" would be nice for another world war) defender and first fuhrer of Home Land Security, our very famous dual citizen, Secretary Micheal Chertoff's nephew. Chertoff was also the guy in charge of the 1993 investigation of WTC basement bombing which led to a paid FBI informants creative creation of a fall guy, a blind cleric. Many suggest that during the 1993 renovation, the plumbing for shaped charges required to cut the vertical support columns in the WTC cores to achieve the demolition were laid.
NIST said WTC 7 collapsed due to a never before recorded miracle of physics, thermal expansion - and that was after the Aug 2001 purchaser of the WTC, Larry Silverstein, had confessed publicly that he "regrettably" "pull" ed WTC
This is the Houston Examiner. Houston has historical significance as this plot continues to play itself out. WTC lessee, ZIM Shipping, a foreign flagged company, broke all norms of normal "Merchant Class Wisdom", and forfeited a 50,000$ lease deposit to skedaddle as far as it could just one week before 9-11. ZIM now has it's storefront in Houston, TX.
"... a Zim ship is impounded while attempting to ship Israeli military equipment to Iran; it is speculated that this is done with the knowledge of Israel. [AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, 3/29/2002]"
If ZIM leaves Houston, be sure to broadcast that event - and then evacuate.
Ventura Sheehan Perot Paul Nader McKinney Kucinich Kaptur Gravel Gonzalez Clemente Choate Carter Baldwin Anderson
Israel-first dual-nationals of AIPAC
Willful major media disinformation
Federal Reserve scam
Anthrax intimidation
9/11 sham
Well done article.. even as a "conspiracy theorist" I like how you put in both sides.
This is an excellent article! There has been a slew of Examiner.com articles in the last several months that have attempted to portray 9/11 truthers in a far-from-just light. This article makes up for those in a huge way. By citing sources from both sides of the debate, you make it easy for folks to compare what each side is saying.
For a lot of people, very simple and elementary physics makes the whole argument one sided: An object in motion... If the collapse of the towers was due to global systematic structural failure, then the collapse would have been a series of collapses, not a one-fell-swoop crumble...the buildings would have toppled in various directions, but would not fall straight down through the path of most resistance. That this even IS an argument glaringly reflects how uninformed and blatantly uneducated a whole swath of the American populace really is.
Google "physics toolkit & 9/11" and read some of the related articles for more physics based information.
Carl, you have outdone yourself here. Please show your article to Mr Worstall. Actually, I think you would do your title a favor if you replaced him. This is how journalists should write, and I salute you.
Not all truth passes through three stages. This is especially true if it resolves a problem, and it is less likely to be ridiculed by those who actually have the brains to understand it. Consider for example Quantum Mechanics. Stupidity only goes through one stage: Ridicule.
Philosophers like Schopenhauer are, like most truthers, good at stringing words together in a way that appear to have meaning but if they have any at all it is for their superiors in ivory towers and / or people who have way to much time on their hands and a very limited knowledge of how the real world functions.
What amazes me about the truthers is how many people with advanced technical degrees are so abysmally ignorant of basic physics, and simultaneously believe, without a single data of supporting evidence, that one could rig two of the largest structures in the world for demolition and not be detected. Oh wait... Invisible CIA trolls using invisible nonothermite.
I'm really impressed with this fellow. After all, he's a teacher. We give them so little credit or respect anymore. This is the most comprehensive compilation of pro and con evidence I've seen collected on 9-11 from an impartial point of view. Don't tell me there aren't some VERY conscientious teachers out there STILL teaching, or trying to in spite of everything. God Bless them every one, and GOOD LUCK!
The efforts by the author are certainly laudable. I submit that there exists a far shorter way to understanding 9/11 as a fraud. We must first classify 9/11 as a case of mass murder and proceed as any criminal investigator would: Find out who was at the scene of the crime. This leads us straight into asking: Who boarded the aircraft that were allegedly hijacked. Coming to this point, any investigator would discover that there exists no evidence whatsoever proving that any of the 19 alleged hijackers boarded these aircraft. In fact, no evidence exists at all that anyone boarded these aircraft. This settles the issue for any reasonable person. There is no need to spend hours in debating the physics of demolition. For details of this approach, google the article: "No evidence that Muslims hijacked planes on 9/11".
Carl
Thank you for your courage ingenuity and patriotism. You are a rey of hope. Please post again and let us know how it's going. Have you started giving these lessons yet? If so, where?
For Doug Nusbaum;
"What amazes me about the truthers is how many people with advanced technical degrees are so abysmally ignorant of basic physics..."
So Doug, what part of basic physics tells you a 47 story, 100m wide steel and concrete structure can fall 105ft at a rate indistinguishable from g?
Chris Sarns: I began this supplemental lesson in the '04-'05 school year and continued since then. I frame it as one of three critical thinking case studies, the other two being the JFK assassination and the presence of UFOs and ETs. If students earn their way to a supplemental lesson through successful class performance on our regular curriculum, this is one of their options. For Advanced Placement students, this is an option for after their AP test completion. I can e-mail the whole lesson at your request.
As our family has moved with my wife's career promotions, I've done this lesson in Pleasanton, CA; Phoenix, AZ; and La Canada, CA.
This is factual and scientific evidence of MURDER! Wake up my fellow citizens. Wake up! The Murderers are coming next with the Swine Flu and laboratory viruses intended to begin KILLING US in the next 2 months. Please stop being stupid and naive. Ground "ALL MILITARY FLIGHTS IN THE USA TOMORROW" Please! We are about to be tricked again by the same MURDERERS that did 911. PLEASE WAKE UP! I would die to save you or your children, my military, or my local police if they were in danger. Now is the time for all of us to help each other. Call the State Police and your Military/National Guard sons and daughters today. They NEED to help us now more than ever before! They can start tomorrow, Monday 09.14.09 with REAL ARREST WARRANTS for "ALL" of the 911 commission members and charge them with Withholding Evidence in a 1st Degree Murder investigation, and High Treason. I bet THEY TALK without torture. The 911 questioning can begin TOMORROW! It MUST! Do you know who Marvin Bush is? "Google him".
LESSON 2:
All of 911 is simple CSI, and for sure, there are real life MURDERERS involved. "The truth will
UPSET us FREE!" The roaring silence by MSM is about to stop and The TREASON TRIALS are about to begin. Please help and educate everyone and do it FAST! Fast! Fast! Fast!
Carl
Thank you for your reply. I don't want to post my personal email but you can contact me at: h**p://www.ae911truth[dot]org/contactus[dot]php Attn. Chris Sarns
Talking about 9/1 is forbidden in so many places. I was thrilled to learn of your including it in your critical thinking lessons. You have set a precedent that needs to be emulated elsewhere.
My suggestion is to include a discussion of the Niels Harrit/Stephen Jones study of the dust and its discovery of the nanothermite. This should very educational indeed for a high school class. The paper itself is not very technical, and a discussion of it should be very educational indeed for a high school class.
The original paper itself may be found at:
bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM
A less technical explanation of the paper that might be very suitable for a high school class is here:
911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html
(I can't post links here but if you copy these addresses into your browser it will take you there)
Elias Davidsson and Tony Wicher: thank you for the suggestions. I added that evidence to the paper.
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