We hold these Truths to be self-evident...
The US war emperors have no clothes. Iran never threatened to destroy Israel. Iran is in full compliance with the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), including their use of nuclear medicine with isotopes. It was the US who initiated the UN Charter that limits war to the narrowest use of self-defense only, almost identical in law to the limits for you or me as individuals.
When will leadership emerge from the US military and/or US government to speak these truths that are objective facts for anyone and everyone to verify?
US military is trained to refuse unlawful orders for War Crimes, but not trained in the broader context of recognizing and refusing an unlawful war. It’s time for our military to stand for their declaration of brotherhood and halt further slaughter and misery, to honor their Oath of Enlistment to the US Constitution; to recognize as the late Pat Tillman: “These wars are so fu*king illegal,” and to end them now.
This revolution must occur in numbers to be successful, mindful of the history of Claus von Stauffenberg’s failed plot to stop Hitler, but confident that the facts really are “emperor has no clothes” obvious and verifiable regarding Iran, and also with the obviously unlawful wars in Iraq and Afghanistan confirmed by our own government's disclosed evidence.
The UN Charter is a US treaty with full force of US law; its only binding component is the limits to Wars of Aggression. The only surrender to the UN is its designed purpose: to prevent the scourge of war that historically proceeds from the same lies of the US to demonize relatively harmless nations who occupy lands with valuable resources.
The current propaganda includes Obama’s Press Secretary, Robert Gibbs, threatening war with Iran by not “ruling it out.” This is a serious threat that should be ended, as it is exactly the same as if a person in your neighborhood was asked, “Do you rule out attacking and killing families because you claim they’re a potential threat?” with the neighbor responding, “I wouldn’t rule anything out” after he already attacked and killed others (Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan). You’d be outraged at such a threat against your family and would demand the arrest of the individual who made it.
US Senators are propagandizing for “regime change” in Iran, similar to calls that preceded war with Iraq, and lying in omission of the US history of overthrowing Iran’s democracy from 1953 to 1979 and then supporting the invasion of Iran from 1980 to 1988 when they wouldn’t accept US political dictatorship. This follows Obama’s war rhetoric.
Fox “news” pimps for war with headlines as, “Dismal Dithering On Iran Is Dangerous,” and “Iran Must be Stopped:”
The situation with Iran continues to become more dangerous by the day. How many will needlessly die before we act to prevent a repeat of what the world experienced during the time of Hitler?
The below 4-minute interview with Wayne Madsen provides useful perspective.
Brothers and Sisters in our military and government: Abraham Lincoln exposed war lies, George Washington warned of lying war rhetoric as “pretended patriotism.” Will you have the honor as a true American standing and acting for American values of liberty and unalienable rights under the rule of law and end these lying fascist wars now?
America does depend upon your leadership. Your brothers and sisters in arms also depend on your courage to refuse and expose these war lies that are the real enemies to the freedom you swore to protect.
Literally billions of human beings are crying-out for your action: engage.
Please share this article with all who can benefit. If you appreciate my work, please subscribe by clicking under the article title (it’s free). Please use my archive of work to help build a brighter future.
I appreciate your attention to these facts and encourage your further study and action consistent with your own self-expression. My recommendations:
Policy response: Gandhi and Martin Luther King advocated public understanding of the facts and non-cooperation with evil. I’m among hundreds who advocate:
- Understand the laws of war. These were legislated after WW2 and are crystal-clear that only self-defense, in a narrow legal meaning, can justify war. The current US wars are not even close to being lawful. Those involved with US military, government, and law enforcement have an oath to protect and defend the US Constitution, not the fascist “always place the mission first.” To fulfill their oath they must immediately refuse and end all orders associated with unlawful wars and military-related constant violation of treaties.
- End the transfer of trillions of American taxpayer money to banksters and admitted as “lost” by our military. End poverty through global cooperation to achieve the UN Millennium Goals by developed countries investing 0.7% of their income. Support global security through cooperation, dignity, justice, and freedom. Create a US Department of Peace to help.
- Communicate. Trust your unique, beautiful, and powerful self-expression to share as you feel appropriate. Understand that while many people are ready to embrace difficult facts, many are not. Anticipate that you will be attacked and prepare your virtuous response in the spirit of competition, just as you do in other fields.
- Prosecute the war leaders for obvious violation of the letter and spirit of US war laws. Because the crimes are so broad and deep, I recommend Truth and Reconciliation (T&R) to exchange full truth and return of stolen US assets for non-prosecution. This is the most expeditious way to understand and end all unlawful and harmful acts. Those who reject T&R are subject to prosecution.
Local perspective: Part of my professional duties as a teacher of economics and government is to produce competent adult citizenry. This includes realization that our nation’s policies and money are managed at a broad community level, and these issues have tremendous local impact. Of course, we all want human beings to be individually successful and enjoy their unique, beautiful and powerful self-expressions. Concurrently, we recognize our commitment to local success is strongly dependent upon the success of the community, and that government policy and economics are drivers.
Our status in early 21st Century human history is that we suffer from a long history in government and money of human interrelationship well-described as vicious antagonism. Governments frequently use war as a foreign policy, despite its illegality and dependent upon public ignorance, with horrific consequences. Economic policy is still created within a “Robber Baron” paradigm to concentrate money to an elite few families. Two examples:
1. National taxes effect you dearly, especially the tax to pay interest on the national debt. This costs the American public over $400 billion every year. This is $4,000 per year for every $50,000 of income. Do the math to understand your household’s tax burden for a monetary policy invented by banks for banks to create our money supply as debt. Your competence in this area contributes to our collective voice to simply shift monetary policy to easily pay the national debt, enjoy full employment, collectively save us over a trillion dollars every year, and finally realize what our brightest American minds have been advocating for centuries beginning with Benjamin Franklin. This would have unprecedented local benefits, and requires collective power to accomplish.
2. Ending poverty everywhere on our planet would cost just 0.7% of our income and save a million children’s lives every month. This human accomplishment will cause unimaginable joy at our local level.
To consider:
"If we are to have peace on earth, our loyalties must become ecumenical rather than sectional. Our loyalties must transcend our race, our tribe, our class, and our nation; and this means we must develop a world perspective. No individual can live alone, no nation can live alone and as long as we try, the more we are going to have war in the world. Now the judgment of God is upon us and we must either learn to live together as brothers or we are all going to perish together as fools."
--Inscription on Dr. Martin Luther King’s statue, Moorehouse College, Atlanta
"The day that hunger is eradicated from the earth, there will be the greatest spiritual explosion the world has ever known. Humanity cannot imagine the joy that will burst into the world on the day of that great revolution." -- poet Federico García Lorca
Comments policy: I welcome questions and comments that are civil and pertain to the article topic. Impolite and impertinent comments will be deleted.
Please consider that I’m among hundreds of writers who have documented our own government’s disclosure of propaganda programs to support their wars. I suspect my articles are under such propagandistic attack from comments that use typical rhetorical fallacies to distract readers from the facts. I invite readers to sharpen their ability to discern such propaganda. They are characterized by a combination of: never addressing the facts, diverting attention through unsubstantiated belief in an alleged expert, irrelevant data, straw-man attack that distorts the facts, ad hominem attack of insults to the messenger, vile comments to repulse readers, and lies of omission and commission.
I will use such comments to point-out the propaganda or delete them at my discretion. Again, all relevant and polite questions, and factually accurate comments are welcome. As a professional educator I’m in agreement with my experience and research: we learn best from multiple perspectives in mutual commitment to understand the facts, see those facts from diverse points-of-view, and consider various policy proposals of what we should do.
For those involved in support of US government-sponsored disinformation, I invite you to consider the quality of human relationships you wish to work toward. National security and a brighter future is not a function of fear, manipulation, and control. Our best security follows cooperation, justice under the law, dignity, and freedom. Working for your best imagined self-expression of virtue may include a unique contribution from the inside of your agency. Public attraction to the stories of Star Wars and the Harry Potter books/movies recognize that our society’s jump to civilized relations for all of us might require support from people within the “dark side” acting as covert agents for building a brighter future. Another option is becoming a whistle-blower; Project Camelot is a popular venue for people in sensitive positions. Ultimately, I recommend a Truth and Reconciliation process to exchange full truth for no prosecution, explained in detail at the link. Please consider the wisdom of your own “Scrooge conversion” to act for the benefit of all humanity rather than your self-proclaimed controlling, manipulating, and loveless “masters.”
“Scrooge was better than his word. He did it all, and infinitely more; and to Tiny Tim, who did not die, he was a second father. He became as good a friend, as good a master, and as good a man, as the good old city knew, or any other good old city, town, or borough, in the good old world. Some people laughed to see the alteration in him, but he let them laugh, and little heeded them; for he was wise enough to know that nothing ever happened on this globe, for good, at which some people did not have their fill of laughter in the outset; and knowing that such as these would be blind anyway, he thought it quite as well that they should wrinkle up their eyes in grins, as have the malady in less attractive forms. His own heart laughed: and that was quite enough for him.”
Comments
why not document all media personel who are part of this drumbeat for war and then show the public that jews and israeli firsters are behind this manipulation of american public opinion, betraying america on behalf of their jewish bond with israel.
Winston:
Why not you go gossip about people’s religion elsewhere. For our government and military to end these unlawful wars, they need the ammunition of clear legal understanding that the wars are unlawful, and documentation of “emperor has no clothes” lies to manipulate our soldiers into harm’s way.
Just wondering... what's the difference between a "Lawful" and an "Unlawful" war?
Provocation? Threat? Compliance with International Law?
Just wondering?
Doc
Doc_Navy:
The rules are simpler than most sports rules, Doc. Read the two links in the first paragraph of the article to understand:
It was the US who initiated the UN Charter that limits war to the narrowest use of self-defense only, almost identical in law to the limits for you or me as individuals.
Say it ain't so, joe! Now the IAEA itself is saying that Iran began enrichment before telling the IAEA and without IAEA inspectors on site! And worse!! Iran is attempting to enrich ALL its uranium!! And even worse!!! IAEA is saying it is very likely Iran has been running a nuclear weapons program!!!
Has everyone been corrupted?
Is Carl Herman the only honest defender of Iran left?
Oh No, you war whore:
AP reports a “secret” IAEA report as the source of your "information." After “secret” evidence with war with Iraq that we now know were all false, and known to be false at the time, and after the “wipe Israel off the map lie,” and that NPT allows enrichment for nuclear medicine, you hope people are so stupid as to believe this allegation without thorough checking.
You’re a war whore. You pimp for pure evil.
You sound all excited to fire off your big gun, oh no. Is that what excites you: more death, destruction, trillions of costs, misery, and all from the same war criminal “leadership” and their minion corporate press?
Thank you for expressing the lust at the core of the one to five percent of society's population that are true psychopaths; loveless creatures fantasizing about swimming in more blood.
But you over-reach this time. Better consider the “Scrooge conversion” I present. Your time to choose is almost over.
The IAEA is not secretive, and how did the 'secret report' fall into the hands of the Associated Press? It's not the first time the Associated Press has published unsourced drivel, of course.
And then, Mainstream Media complains no one is buying their newspapers. Perhaps, if they told the truth like this article does, their circulation would thrive.
Thank you, Carl.
The only 'glee' is seeing reality slap you in the face.
And it's not 'secret' - it's a draft that has made its way to multiple media outlets.
I'm more than willing to wait for the formal release of the final report in a few days - but we all know you'll find another excuse to deny what it says.
'War whore?' Not hardly. No one who's actually been there wants to see it again, but most of us at least recognize there are things even worse.
The real 'war whore' is you, Carl Herman - since none of your rants mean anything if we do not go to war with Iran.
Cont:
You won’t find a more clear explanation of what makes a war lawful or unlawful than the articles I link. Nobody can act for another, but we can all help each other understand clear rules and verifiable facts.
Choose well your thoughts, words, and acts. They are your future. If you value love, unalienable rights, and that we are all Brothers and Sisters of God, now is the time to experience and express this stand fully.
“There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat. And we must take the current when it serves, or lose our ventures.” – Shakespeare
Oh no:
You so quickly jump all over an “alleged” draft after all the lies to start war with Iraq, “wipe Israel off the map” lie, and NPT compliance with US NIE agreement. You’re either stupid or a propagandist. Why do you deny this history of lies and embrace an unconfirmed report?
Thank you for your service to the US in good faith. I ask you to honor your Oath of Enlistment to support and defend the US Constitution. You fully understand the necessity of being prepared rather than sitting on your ass. If these orders for war come down, our men and women in government and military MUST refuse orders for an unlawful war or stand with fascist mass-murderers.
More…
Let me make sure that I understand what you are saying:
1. At no point did any Governmental leader of Iran ever make a statement espousing the destruction of Isreal.
Apparent Issue: After reading your articles about it, and the speech itself, AND the back and forth "Translation wars" going on over it; here is my personal conclusion... Ahmadinejad knew EXACTLY what he was saying and EXACTLY how it would be interpreted by the west, Which is WHY he said it that way. Every Speech, Communication, and Leadership course I ever took had as it's FIST immutable rule of public speaking: "It doesn't matter what you meant, it only matters what the person you are speaking to hears."
Ahmadinejad was making a public speech MEANT to be heard by Western and Israeli leaders. Unless you think he was an ignoramus, it is obvious that he wanted to intimate an aggressive stance toward Isreal, and get the reaction that he got.
Cont...
Doc
You can delete it, but people will find it: The official IAEA report is out in PDF form: IAEA GOV/2010/10.
Your fear of acknowledging that and allowing people to read it speaks volumes.
Cont..
You don't use vague or obtuse phrases that mean one thing to your supporters, and another to your intended target (Code) unless you plan on using the "Wrong interpretation" defense later, in an effort to make your opponent look dumb.
2. Iran is (and has historically), always been in compliance with the IAEA NPT.
Apparent Issue: The IAEA Report of the Board of Governors dated 25 September, 2005 would at least seem to contradict the historical compliance if Iran. (Ref:www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Board/2005/gov2005-77.pdf) As well as the communique to the Board by Permanent Missions of France, Germany and the United Kingdom (Ref:www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Infcircs/2006/infcirc662.pdf) IMHO the "Money Shot" is this quote found in Paragraph 4, it reads
"Given Iran's documented record of concealment and deception, the need for Iran to build confidence has been and continues to be the heart of the matter."
This dovetails into the issue in #1.
Cont..
Doc
Oh no:
I admonish readers to consider your very first comment as to your intent, remember the lies that preceded unlawful war in Iraq, remember “wipe Israel off the map” lie and NPT compliance, and consider this report only argues over additional protocol that is above and beyond NPT; that is, vague statements of not being able to prove a negative. For example, asking oh no to prove he’s not a terrorist should be turned on its head for the accuser to prove the claim that oh no is a terrorist.
The key finding in this report that there is no evidence of weapon production, only twisted wording to cause concern about additional protocol:
46. While the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared nuclear material in Iran, Iran has not provided the necessary cooperation to permit the Agency to confirm that all nuclear material in Iran is in peaceful activities.
Cont..
As to it's CURRENT compliance... I would think that the bombshell recently dropped on the UN by both Obama and Ahmadinejad of the recently discovered, "Secret" enrichment facility would support the 12 Jan 2006 communique commenting on Iran's documented "concealment and deception" of its nuclear capabilities and intent.
Again, when you are dealing with the possibility of all-out war, and/or nuclear strikes... it surely DOESN'T pay to be playing "silly buggars" in the fog with folks who think you intend them harm. Iran and Ahmadinejad need to be CLEAR in language and *ACTIONS* that are unmistakable. At this point, IMHO, I don't think it's on the West to prove or disprove the real intent of the Government of Iran, it's on THEM not us.
Again.. that's just my opinion, I'm not the one playing mind games with folks who have their finger on ther trigger.
Doc
Doc_Navy:
Careful where you’re placing your allegiance. I also encourage readers to read the speech. Ahmadinejad quoted a past religious leader with a phrase to encourage Iranians to endure the US-imposed dictator Shah while working for regime-change in Iran. This in context with talking of regime-change in the USSR and Iraq; therefore zero threat to Israel.
Doc, with all respect, you’re either being stupid with the clear context and content of the speech or pimping for unlawful war.
Yes, Iran is in NPT compliance. US NIE states Iran was considering nukes in the past but current NIE and all evidence shows all nuclear material going to legal peaceful purposes. Why quote a 2005 IAEA report when we have current data? All we have is fear-mongering over additional protocol above NPT and a bottom line of all evidence of legal use.
Moreover, from the article, the history is US overthrow of this country and we’ve already invaded and occupied the countries on either side of Iran.
While you ignore the other findings that Iran has repeatedly denied inspectors access to the facilities they need to inspect to ensure Iran does not have undeclared nuclear material, or the evidence of work on detonating systems, or the questions about plutonium, and so on.
Nice to see you admit the report exists, at least.
Doc:
You’re wrong – Iran announced the plant to IAEA then US prostitute media and “leadership” called it a “secret.” Get your damn facts straight if you want to discuss the lives of millions of people and our soldiers going to war.
You’re absolutely wrong about the burden of proof. It’s innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent. You’re throwing away much wisdom, even right now from war with Iraq, and absolutely disrespecting the use of our soldiers.
The rules of NPT are IAEA check of all facilities to verify peaceful use of nuclear technology. The bottom line is IAEA verification of NPT compliance. The relevant facts include US lies for war with Iraq and Afghanistan, and “wipe Israel off the map lie” that you curiously won’t/can’t confirm.
YOU LIE, CARL HERMAN: "Ahmadinejad quoted a past religious leader with a phrase to encourage Iranians to endure the US-imposed dictator Shah while working for regime-change in Iran. This in context with talking of regime-change in the USSR and Iraq; therefore zero threat to Israel."
The EXACT phrase used was "een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods" - "this regime occupying Jerusalem".
Cont:
As for the current supposed leaked IAEA document, prove that there’s any violation of NPT rather than additional protocol or I’ll delete your further comments on that point as well. The bottom line of compliance with the purpose of safe use of nuclear technology isn’t enough for you? Again, how are these concerns not Additional protocol:
46. While the Agency continues to verify the non-diversion of declared nuclear material in Iran, Iran has not provided the necessary cooperation to permit the Agency to confirm that all nuclear material in Iran is in peaceful activities.
I wrote an article explaining details of Additional Protocol in the second link at the beginning of this article.
Oh no:
Thanks for placing your credibility on a central claim for “defensive” war with Iran in such clear terms. Anyone who takes five minutes to read the paragraph in question of President Ahmadinejad’s speech can confirm oh no is lying in Orwellian extreme.
Yes, he writes what was said, but where’s the lie in the clear content and context of what I explain and what the rest of the paragraph says? Oh no, if you want to continue on this point, then you summarize what Ahmadinejad said in that paragraph with the history of the imam using that phrase for Iranians and the US-imposed dictator, the references to similar regimes in the USSR and Iraq, and the context of discussing Israel’s rejection of political and civil legal rights for Palestinians.
Do that or I’ll delete your further unsubstantiated propaganda.
More…
Finally,
As to the "lawful" or "unlawful" nature of the conficts in Iraq and Afghanistan... I read your links, here's my opinion:
The conflict in Afghanistan was a direct result of a direct attack on US soil, killing US Citizens by an openly hostile group receiving direct aid, succor and protection from the Talibani Government of Afghanistan; who directly refused repeated requests of cooperation by the US Goverment.
I'm Sorry, but you will never get me to think that our military operations in Afghanistan are unwarranted or unlawful. (And I've deployed there once already.)
Iraq is much more of a "Grey Area" for me. I can see your reasoning for your labelling Iraq and "illegal War"; however I'm not sure I fully agree. I try not to fall victim to jingoism or propaganda, and to that extent slogans in the like of "Bush lied, people died" fall on deaf ears to me. Neither do I buy the propaganda lines of "Bush did it for the oil!" (How much Iraqi oil has found it's way here?)
Cont
Nor do I buy the Bush bashing pablum of, "Bush just did it so he could get rich. Halliburton! Halliburton!" (He was already rich.)
My question to folks who are so vehement agianst Iraq is simply this:
"Did or did NOT, Saddam Hussein and his Government need to be removed from power in Iraq. If so, who should have done it, and who had the capability to do it?"
Everything else is just fluff. Having ALSO served in Iraq and seen the reactions to the US military by the people of Iraq, it's pretty easy for me to answer those questions to myself.
Doc
Cont:
Doc also suspiciously ignores the history of the US putting Saddam in power when he was our oil-friendly dictator and ignores the current status of African dictators as bad as Saddam who we support because they have oil-friendly policies, and most importantly puts a smiley face on the Iraq people regarding the US-led mass-murder of a million of their citizens.
But this is a test of the readers’ thinking. Doc explains what I see as the typical argument in support of war in Iraq for your consideration of this life and death issue that again, is arguably among the top few to understand and apply your values in creating the future of your choice.
I also encourage you that the rules of lawful war are easier to understand than most rules in sports, and definitely easier than following the intricacies of love/relationship dramas of who did what to whom and who said what that so many human beings learn and follow with extreme interest.
Cont:
But Doc shows what must proceed: people must consider for themselves. Also consider the link where I document US government disclosure of official propaganda to infiltrate US media to spin Americans to support their war policies. Doc fills that prescription for me, but I have no way to verify this; he may be thinking and working his way to understand as best he can.
I can only advise that this test of a fundamental application of the most important law (war) is really important to determine qualification for a government of freedom or a government of fascism and dictatorship.
Doc says the rules of law are somehow irrelevant when the US Fuhrer says “Saddam is a bad man.” This call for dictatorship rather than American rule under law is the polar opposite of what it means to be American. This is fascism in action.
More…
Doc_Navy:
Thank you for you good-faith service to the US. I appreciate your thinking with these issues and invite all readers to understand the most important current events of life and death in wars and the use of trillions of our dollars.
The US refused a direct resolution of UNSC for cooperation under the law to discover, arrest, and prosecute those involved in 9/11. The US refused to provide any evidence, and we have zero evidence today of the Afghan government’s involvement with 9/11. What happened on 9/11 was a criminal act, not an act of war. The US response was retaliation without evidence, as criminal as if an individual attacked an entire neighborhood after blaming a resident for a murder after being warned to cooperate under the law and also refusing to provide evidence the resident was involved in the murder.
I assert this is unlawful in Orwellian extreme.
More…
Carl,
You just proved a point I made several days ago on another thread about the schizm in reasoning between "Conservative" and "Liberal" mindsets on terrorism.
-"Liberals" seem to feel that Terrorism is a "Crime", in the vein of murder, kidnapping, and Bank Robbery. Thusly terrorist acts wether state-sponsored or not, should appropriately be tried in a Civil court, with all the rights and protections of the court and the US Constitution. (As well as those of the Geneva Conventions)
-"Conservatives" on the other hand, seem to believe that (Foreign vice home grown) terrorism is an act of War, and thusly terrorists captured on the field of battle should be tried by military tribunal and afforded the rights set out by the law of War, and those applicable to the Geneva Convention.
If you read what the Terrorists THEMSELVES have to say, their "intent" is plain. They are at War. There are NO RULES to their their War. There are NO RIGHTS for the captured. God is on their side.
Doc
Cont:
And, the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Both are as unlawful as imaginable; although I can’t do anyone’s thinking but only provide clear explanation of the law, its history, and the facts.
Doc and readers, if China invaded the US, we’d be killing the invaders and feel good about doing so. So what’s so strange about their killing of American invaders? What if the shoe was on the other foot? I wrote an article to look from their perspective that I suggest for reading:
Reality check: If China "liberated" US like we "liberated" Iraq, here's how we would look
Doc_Navy:
Again, be careful, man, where you place your allegiance.
Acts of terror are defined as criminal acts. An armed attack by a nation’s government is an act of war. Each has appropriate legal responses to effectively end.
If you’re intentionally screwing with this basic understanding to obfuscate for an offensive war against a nation in response to a criminal act alleged by a resident with refusal to provide evidence, you are treading in criminal territory yourself.
If you were a paid or volunteer propagandist, this is criminal cover-up; you’re being an accomplice after-the-fact.
More…
Carl,
Concerning your "reality check"
"If China "liberated" US like we "liberated" Iraq..."
Couple of minor points if I may,
1. As far a I know, no one has ever accused the US Govt of Genocide against it's own people. (Outside of Anti-govt militia types, Mormons, and Native Americans respectively.)
2. The US Govt has never used weaponized NBC agents against it's own citizenry.
3. If there are Govt soponsored "Rape-Houses", and "Torture facilities" in use against the population of the US, it is so secret that nobody really knows about it.
4. How many "mass graves" filled with US citizens have been found inside the US, and attributed to the US Govt?
5. When was the last time that a political party in the US capped off it's control of the Govt by engaging in a pogrom against their opposition?
6. Generally speaking, would the Average American feel the NEED to be "liberated" by China, and welcome it with open arms?
The US isn't perfect, but it's not Saddam era Iraq either
Doc
Carl,
On last thing... Where are you getting your "million" Iraqi body count?
Checking various search engines I see LOT'S of activist propaganda site claiming this number, but a little looking at it shows that most are "Extrapolated", and include things like:
-death from disease, the logic being that these deaths were somehow avoidable if the US hadn't "blown up" the infrastructure. The rebuttal to this fallacy is that the infrastructure is better NOW than it ever was under Saddam, and has been for quite some time.
-deaths from suicide bombers and insurgent activities. It boggles my mind how you can attibute insurgent activities to the US military. The logic is circular. "There weren't any insurgents or terrorists when Saddam ruled!!" That reasoning is false on its face. Saddam and the Baathists WERE the terrorists.
Should we get out of Iraq? YES! and we will, after the region is stable.
Doc
Now even the Russians think Iran is hiding something:
Reuters:
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov indicated that Moscow's patience was wearing very thin.
"We are very alarmed and we cannot accept this, that Iran is refusing to cooperate with the IAEA," Lavrov told the Ekho Moskvy radio station in an interview.
"For about 20 years, the Iranian leadership carried out its clandestine nuclear program without reporting it to the IAEA," he said. "I do not understand why there was such secrecy."
The IAEA on Thursday made public its concerns over a classified analysis which concludes that Iran already has explosives expertise relevant to a workable nuclear weapon.
"Some questions remain on the table and Iran has so far not reacted to them but they are rather serious and we need to understand how several documents concerning military nuclear technology found their way to Iran," Lavrov said.
"Clear explanations are needed."
......and we can believe EVERYTHING put out by the MSM.....
Oh, yeahhhhhhhhh.... I'll take multiple MSM sources over anything coming from the official Iranian news agency.
Doc_Navy:
Ok, have it your way and defend an unlawful War of Aggression against a US-supported puppet who stopped taking our orders. Good luck with that.
The only peer-reviewed study concluded ~10 times the death total testified by the US government. That was four years ago with similar guidelines used to extrapolate to ~1.2 million from the 660,000 at the time. And the US is guilty of War Crimes for targeting and blowing up water treatment plants, among the evidence in that interesting part of the story.
So we’re done, Doc. You present a typical argument to allow unlawful war and trust the tyrants that we’re there to “stabilize” the region rather than causing it to remain unstable and to prosecute their asses for a War of Aggression.
Carl,
Umm Ok. Well, then. Let's have it YOUR way. We pull all troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP, and get our allies to do the same.
Then what?
While America refocuses itself on YOUR idea of trying to get the rest of the World to spend, was it .7 percent?, of their "income" (GDP?) on ending poverty... The Middle-East collapses into a civil bloodbath the likes of which haven't been seen since the Dark Ages.
Do you really think that there is some sort of SOLIDARITY among the differing sects and tribes of the Middle-East? Hardly. If that were the case, Palestinian refugees to neighboring countries would have been ultimately welcomed and integrated, this is not the case. Instead, that Arab League of nations has instructed its members to deny citizenship to Palestinian Arab refugees (or their descendants) on the excuse of protecting their "Right of return".
There are only two things that has ever brought them together, War(Usually against Isreal), and (oil)money.
Doc
Cont:
Your “White Man’s Burden” argument that those “sects and tribes” will cause the whole Middle-East to collapse into a bloodbath is an often-repeated argument and similar to gangsters’ protection rackets. What would your argument be if China invaded the US and argued our different religions and races would cause the whole of North America to collapse in a bloodbath as justification for China’s continued occupation of the US? What if they told us with a straight face they need to stay until the US is “secure” while their civilian contractors and Black Ops conduct who-knows-what levels of operations to foment violence?
The US are the criminal invaders; manipulating our men and women in uniform to fight “leadership’s” wars; and poised to attack again in Iran.
Start with that truth and rip-open what else is being hidden.
Doc_Navy:
You strawman my position; shame on you, Doc. We start with the truth, including the war lies that are the topic of this article. As I write above:
Prosecute the war leaders for obvious violation of the letter and spirit of US war laws. Because the crimes are so broad and deep, I recommend Truth and Reconciliation (T&R) to exchange full truth and return of stolen US assets for non-prosecution. This is the most expeditious way to understand and end all unlawful and harmful acts. Those who reject T&R are subject to prosecution.
T&R will find out how much violence is Blackwater/Xe/Black Ops of our doing, how much the current Iraqi government is really our puppet, and we need genuine dialogue of how to provide transition security, but without the criminal US and our for-hire contractor killers. The light of truth will reveal much.
More..
Oh no:
I’ll delete your further comments as you’ve shared enough gossip, fear, and the same propaganda that preceded unlawful war with Iraq. You reject history of lies for war with Iraq and lies pimping for war with Iran, and reject the bottom line of IAEA reported zero evidence of nuclear weapon development along with the US NIE.
Your quotes tell the story actually: “questions remain on the table,” unspecified “documents” (what, the ones the CIA said were false?), “explanations needed.” Propagandists always have questions, unspecified documents like those fakes of Niger uranium, and need explanation for Iran to never be able to prove their intentions.
Oh no, you may have to be on the receiving end of war to learn cooperation, justice under the law, dignity and real freedom. Better look deep for your answer.
Carl,
Again your China scenario has some glaring holes.
UNLIKE Iraq, the population of the United States HAS a national identity.
UNLIKE Iraq, the US society ISN'T tribal based.
UNLIKE Iraq, the US population isn't steeped in long running tribal feuds, and our citizens don't have a "Revenge" complex encouraged by a national religion.
UNLIKE Iraq, the US doesn't have an aggressive neighbor like Iran with bad blood from a decade long war, waiting in the wings.
Tell me, if we pulled out now... how long do you think it would take Iran and Syria (at a minimum) to trample over the weakened Iraqi Govt and eat up as much of their oil fields as possible; once they realized that The US and UN couldn't or wouldn't stop them? Honestly.
Think about it.
Doc
Honestly, Doc, all you have is a priori fallacies to defend the unlawful US invasion of Iraq and whine about no solutions other than the criminal US remaining until we’ve finished “helping them.”
As the moderator for this comment section, I declare our conversation finished and will delete your further comments.
I appreciate your giving voice to many of the arguments people hear to support the US invasion of Iraq so readers might learn from our dialogue.
I respectfully remind readers of these comments to understand the topic of this article: the justifications for war with Iran are lies and the UN Charter conditions for lawful war are not met. Any war orders to our men and women in uniform must be refused if they are to honor their Oath of Enlistment to support and defend the US Constitution.
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