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On numerous Internet forums, and some email lists, gun owners periodically report being hassled by police when pulled over for routine traffic infractions. These gun owners often complain of being detained for longer than necessary to issue a traffic summons, being temporarily disarmed, and having the serial numbers of the guns recorded.
But often there is a common thread to these stories – the dorky gun owner brought up the gun thing all on her own!
Traffic stop gun dork behavior comes in a variety of flavors, but here are the major ones:
The I gotta show my carry permit gun dork: This gun owner, for whatever reason, insists on notifying the officer she holds a gun carry permit. Maybe thinking the officer will give her “professional courtesy” and not issue a summons if the officer sees the permit, the gun dork slyly exposes her permit while finding her driver’s license, or maybe asks, batting her eyes, “officer, do you want to see my concealed handgun permit?”
The I gotta notify the officer I have a gun gun dork: This gun owner, even when in many or most states like Virginia and Pennsylvania which do not require gun owners to notify officers that they have a gun, always starts the conversation with police officers with “I have a gun!,” or words to that effect. And regardless of how toastmaster smooth this gun dork thinks he can speak, the officer likely perceives the relevant communication simply as “I have a gun!” when his brain processes this spontaneous statement by the unknown subject he has just seized.
The I gotta act like the police might shoot me gun dork: This gun owner, after turning on his dome light even in day time as if his balding head needs illumination, grips his steering wheel in white knuckled determination to refuse any temptation to move or open his wallet and glove box to get his driver’s license, registration, and proof of insurance. Nosirreeee, this gun dork is gonna to wait 'till the officer gets to the window and tells him how to chew soup today.
And sometimes these gun dorks execute more than one of these behaviors, or one of several others oddities – like my favorite: getting out of their car “to meet the officer on equal ground.”
Just compare these gun dorky behaviors to what most motorists do in a traffic stop: First they say “oh [insert favorite explicative]!” Second, they pull over in a spot that gives the officer a place to park too. Third, they take a deep breath and then get out their driver’s license, registration, and proof of insurance – about that time the officer is walking up and observing this normal behavior and saying something like “good morning sir, I need see your license and registration.”
At this point the normal motorist tries to seem relaxed as possible, slightly apologetic too, and does a little Colombo routine, something like: “Oh, ahh, sure officer, I think these are up to date, ahh, do you want that insurance thingy too?” Over the next few minutes the officer runs checks on your docs, gives you a short lecture, and then issues you a warning or summons and everybody is on their way.
Incredibly, gun dorks seem surprised or infuriated when things go differently for them. Gun dorks should think for a minute and realize that what they are saying or doing is frankly very strange and unnerving and creates a problem for the police officer that he must deal with – and deal with in only a few seconds based upon what his training, instincts, recollection of possible department policies, and personal biases tell him to do at that instant.
And let’s not forget the relevant social and economic incentives for police officer behavior – if the officer treats the gun dork like any other ordinary motorist after the gun dork communicates “gun!” in one way or another, and something bad happens during that traffic stop, do you think that officer is goin’ to get selected for Detective anytime soon?
So here’s a great New Year’s resolution for 2010: Don’t be a gun dork in traffic stops!
Happy New Year!
For more info: OpenCarry.org & DC Gun Rights Examiner
Comments
Some of us are required by law to notify. The two times I have been stopped, the officers, when notified, have simply said, "Okay."
In Las Vegas, our guns must be registered with the sheriff, and along with our CCW, we must carry the "Blue Card" gun registration. Not having this card is a crime. Also in Las Vegas, when you are pulled over, your CCW is linked to your vehicle and your drivers license. When the officer walks up to your vehicle, he/she already know you are a CCW holder, so why keep it a secret? The few times I have been pulled over, I had the officer my license, my CCW and my blue card. I never mention "gun." Don't need to... the blue card says it for me. The only question I have ever been asked is, "Where is your firearm?" After I tell them, I never hear another word about it. I've never gotten a ticket and I'm on my way after a quick lecture. So I would disagree with the advice in this article. Never force the officer to ask if he already knows you have a firearm.
Mike,
Your cohort in Seattle, Dave Workman, wrote a little booklet a while ago for people who were just getting into carrying guns. I still remember the paragraph on the topic of traffic stops. I think his advice was right on and will paraphrase below, with my own additions.
What to do when you get pulled over:
1. Pull over in a safe location.
2. Turn on your dome light and roll down any tinted windows so the officer can see into the car.
3. Turn the motor and radio off.
4. Keep your hands on the wheel, where they are visible.
5. When the officer starts talking to you, put the ball in his court: "Officer, I am licensed to carry a pistol and am wearing it now. It is on my right hip. What would you like me to do?"
6. Follow instructions and be polite.
The officer doesn't know you. Calmly let him know what is going on and let him make the decisions. Officers appreciate it when you make their job safer and easier.
I'm a young guy with long hair, I'd rather hand the permit over with my license/reg/insurance and keep the firearm situation on my terms rather than lean to get something, accidentally expose it and get a service pistol in my ear. I appreciate the "don't be dumb" sentiment of the article but if you're in a state that doesn't strictly require disclosure its simply a matter of what you feel will have less potential for unpleasantness, providing your license or the possibility, however slim, of a "whoops" exposure
Something has not been mentioned here, and that is what was it that these folks are doing to attract the attention of law enforcement. There is absolutely no excuse for not obeying traffic laws, no matter how inane we believe them to be. Equipment violations are not excusable either. Regardless of what other folks around us are doing we should be model citizens. Many of us brag about how permit holders are the most law abiding citizens. Well it's time for us to prove it. Obey the traffic laws and you won't have any reason to encounter the police.
Sir,
I'm usually pretty open to different points of view, but you come across as a little high-handed. Your point about "doing something different" is well-taken, but some of your "dorky" behaviors (except "I've got a gun!") sometimes do have their place.
I see you have an opinion. Most gun folks do. But realize some people are taking it as instruction. The real world has some nuance to it.
Respectfully,
David
Miko is dead on the money. I pulled a dumb-dumb move in traffic, and it was my fault, I admit it. It's called error, not a blatant rule-flaunting act. Unfortunately, the officer noticed something that made her ask me if I had a weapon before I could inform her (as per instructions that came with my CCW permit) that I was licensed to carry and doing so. However, all things worked out well. It took a little longer, but all I got was a lecture I deserved, a warning I didn't deserve (b/c what I deserved was a ticket), and a polite conversation with an officer over the benefits of a Springfield XD over a Glock.
Remember, SOME people don't tell the cop they're carrying b/c they want to KILL that cop. A cop who wants to stay alive to retirement needs to remember that and assume as such when dealing with the unknown. They are essentially wearing "shoot me" signs by wearing that uniform. Give them the sign that you are a good citizen by letting them know. You'll be safer for that t
Newbie 'carry' Owners r naturally very self-concious about it (like I was for a LONG time). Like being stoned when u were a punk teenager {sic} -if u remember- u thought everyone 'else' SURELY knew u were too! But u learned: nobody did, nobody cared. Same difference with a gun! So word to the Newbies: FORGET ABOUT IT! If pulled over, say to urself "I have no gun. I have NO gun" & clear ur mind, forget that u do. U'll relax. u'll act more naturally. Everything'll go just fine. Just remember -the way u feel is natural- ur NOT a criminal! ...except if ur stoned with a Gun! THEN panic!! ;) heh.
Ok, when the officer secures his gun in his cruiser to show he has no evil intent against my person, maybe I'll do what you suggest. But let me explain something to you, as you must live in a much more reasonable environment on another planet, because I don't know anybody who acts the way you describe gun owner driving dorks. But I do know a large number of cops who think all of us who aren't cops are dangerous dorks, armed or not.
He isn't the only sonofabitch who wants to go home at the end of his shift, I do too.
Many years ago when I first started carrying, I admit I blurted out the worst thing you can possibly say when you're stopped, "Hi Officer. How u doing today. um, I have a gun, by the way."
Cop immediately snapped, "So do I!"
I did a double-take, snickered, said "um, yeah. Sorry. That just didnt come out the way I wanted it too for some reason." Actually we both got a laugh out of that one...
Bas###d STILL gave me a speeding Ticket! But I learned -we're all human. We make mistakes.
The only dork is you, Mike. Why don't you shove a shard of glass up your urethra and play with your anus with the other hand. Think you're cute portraying ccw holders as numbnuts. I'm certain 99.939% of holders conduct themselves just fine if stopped. Now go run along and give Bloomberg the blow you've been promising him. Work those lips skipper.
Something has not been mentioned here, and that is what was it that these folks are doing to attract the attention of law enforcement. There is absolutely no excuse for not obeying traffic laws, no matter how inane we believe them to be. Equipment violations are not excusable either. Regardless of what other folks around us are doing we should be model citizens. Many of us brag about how permit holders are the most law abiding citizens. Well it's time for us to prove it. Obey the traffic laws and you won't have any reason to encounter the police.
In Ohio, ccw is part of the license pacage cops get when they run your plates. As far as I know, failure to notify an LEO if you are LICENSED and carrying immediately is a felony. Thank God for ccw, before that a "prudent man" could carry at will if the situation called for it(if it was prudent)-but now $45 to the county, and countless felony risks is the par. Thanks "gun rights" folks-next time you wish to masturbate, use penthouse and leave me alone. Jerks.
Come to think of it, follow DC Examiner's suggestions...:) Please. Or learn to read.
Mike, you're an idiot. Your article rests upon a premise of "the dorky gun owner brought up the gun thing all on her own." At the risk of repeating what others have stated, failure to notify a cop of the presence of a firearm (carried legally by permit) immediately upon being stopped is a crime in many/most CCW states. A crime, Mike.
Excerpt from Oklahoma Statutes Title 21, Section 1290.8.C:
"It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop."
Your asinine comments should rightly be ignored, inasmuch as you "practice law" in Washington, D.C., which as we know is in dire need of a legislative enema to begin with.
Texas (also) requires CHL holders to present the CHL (when carrying) if asked for ID by a LEO.
Most people report (and my limited experience concurs) that the police are actually QUITE NICE to CHL holders. As long as the CHL holder is acting polite it practically guarantees the cop a safe stop since CHL holders are overwhelming law abiding and generally not hot heads.
Frankly this law SHOULD be changed -- a legitimate cop can get the info from the computer AND (again) anyone who was intending to do something evil, illegal, or stupid wouldn't follow the law anyway.
But for us, it typically gets us quick and courteous treatment.
I can't believe how many commenters here can't read, ignoring the line: "states like Virginia and Pennsylvania which do not require gun owners to notify officers". The article did not say Texas, Ohio or Las Vegas.
The simple fact is that for a motor vehilce stop there is no reason why a situation should be escalated without cause. The License holder should not increase the tension and the officer has no right to 'create' a crime where probable cause does not exist. In particular in PA where the State Police maintain a incomplete "sales database" there certainly is never a reason to confiscate and check a serial number.
Unless an incident happens in a state where notifcation is required, the simple fact is that one should always remember "What you say can and will be used against you...".
Missouri is a non notification state and I don't tell them.
In North Carolina you have to tell the PIG that you have a permit to carry. You will be required to give up you weapon, the PIG keeps his. After the stop is over, the PIG unloads the weapon and puts it in your trunk and you go on your way. The PIG is always armed because you are the enemy. I was told by more than one that no one should carry but law enforcement.
Wow Mike, Epic fail.
OKCPD indirectly raises a good point in her comment, that is whether or not a majority of states do require people to NOTIFY officers conducting seizure (e.g., traffic stop) of a person - my belief is that this is a minority of states, and even then, only applies to people with permits and carrying as privieged by the permit - so usually, inthose states requiring notification, bad guys carrying concealed without permits, and good guys carrying openly, have no duty to notify. Back to the narrow issue, I wonder if the NRA or anybody has a handy summary of "shall notify" states??
"At the risk of repeating what others have stated, failure to notify a cop of the presence of a firearm (carried legally by permit) immediately upon being stopped is a crime in many/most CCW states. A crime, Mike"
OKCPD You are an EPIC FAIL at this station of all the states that issue permits only 9 require the permit holder to notify the cop that they are carrying. IMO the type of permitee that DOES inform is usually the same guy that calls himself a "sheepdog" and feels that his permit makes him some type of auxillary LEO. They seem to feel that having a permit makes them a member of some elite fraternity and informing the cop is the secret handshake.
What a stupid and poorly written / researched article. Shame on you. Cops DEMAND that you tell them whether or not there are any weapons in the car (not just guns either, any weapons). They do NOT have the right to record your serial numbers but do it anyway. I carry by the way, will NOT get a ccw, and do not trust cops whatsoever, more people are killed by cops and their guns then by people like me who have the right to self defense without a stupid permission slip.
Miko: You are exactly right. Now, let's take it a bit further. In my state (Colorado), if you are legally qualified by Federal law to possess a firearm, you may carry in your car without a permit with very few local area exceptions.
Part of my initial contact during a traffic stop (and I do a LOT of them) is the question "For your safety and mine, I need to know if you have any weapons in your possession - guns, knives, etc." If you answer 'yes', I will ask where it is. Then I will say "Don't reach for it or go near that area." If you tell me before I ask, that's fine too.
I will not disarm you unless you give me a reason to - and I use 'reasonable suspicion' as my criteria. The side of the road is the worst place to be screwing around with an unfamiliar weapon. Some cops will automatically disarm. I don't agree with that - it escalates the situation.
In five years doing of traffic patrol, I've only done it once - because the driver did not follow my instructions.
Save yourself a lot of grief and simply comply with your own various state laws. if you do not like the law then get it repelled. If an officer acts out of line while you are complying then report that officer immediately making sure his boss knows you are complaining about officer behavior and not the ticket since you will take care of the ticket in court where that fight belongs. Weapons do not excuse bad behavior on either side and cops have no right to bully people who are complying with the laws.
Kevin: Yes, everyone should obey the traffic laws. But everyone makes mistakes.
Believe me, I write a lot more warnings than citations. If a warning will correct the situation (i.e. remind you to be more aware of the traffic control signs), then a warning it is.
Will a CCW buy you anything? Not by itself, but CCW holders for the most part respect themselves and others, and are law-abiding people. It is that mindset - and your actions - that will get you a break when we have the discretion to do so.
Many years ago I had a conversation with an older HPD Sgt. not long after an officer was shot during a "routine" traffic stop. I asked what should I do to make the situation more relaxed. He told me: Pull over as soon as possible in a place where you and he will be out of traffic. Shut off your engine ("I won't try to run away, or drive over you.") and turn on your flashers. If it's night, turn on your inside lights. Put both hands where he can see them. Don't reach for anything until he asks for it (are you digging for your wallet or for a gun?) Don't argue. If you don't think you did what he says you did, say so politely. Texas law requires you to present your CHL at the same time you present your driver's licence. He will probably ask where it is. Tell him. Don't reach for it unless he asks you to do so.
I've never been stopped that I didn't deserve it. I've always been polite, and never been treated in any way less than polite.
Just curious, how many CCW permit holders have "KILLED" cops? Jeez, some of you guys are worse than the anti-gunners!
I can't speak for the situation in Mike's part of the world, the DC area abutting the USA, but here in Missouri the cop problems are often the result of anti-gun cops or police chiefs. As Stu Strickler pointed out, there is no need to volunteer the information that one is armed. But it is a crime not to tell if the officer asks. And, once CCW was enacted, many urban police agencies started making it a policy to ask and then to confiscate and/or run serial numbers if the answer was "yes."
The only thing more varied than the behavior of these "gun dorks" is the advice one gets from cops when asking what one should do. So what Mike is calling "gun dorks" are simply citizens trying to play it as safe as possible and make the cops as relaxed as possible in a nation with fifty-plus different ways to legally carry.
As a peace officer, you are a fool if you don't suspect everyone, that you don't know personally, that you meet, might try to kill you.
You are also a fool if you don't realize that 99% of those you meet, are just average citizens like you, and not part of that 1% group we all know, and love to have serious social intercourse with.
You are also fool not to pay attention to that well developed gut instinct which protects you every day and a fool as well if having been in service longer than 20 seconds, you stay so employed without it.
The problem begins with the selection process and then continues within the training curricula. You do not start with educated people first of all and by that I mean someone with a good understanding of Constitutional government and principles. Add to that Ranger or Marine training in a civilian environment and a political class that views you taking the oaths as a declaration of personal loyalty, and may bad things can thus be counted upon to ha
Things are sure different out here in Wyoming. I was pulled over once (forgot to put full lights on at dusk, and had parking lights only). Since I carry openly, the policeman saw it at once and his only comment was, "Gee, that looks nice! What is it?"
I'd say the key was to mind your own business, be polite and not draw attention to yourself. Oh, and not living in a state with gestapo type police would probably help a lot.
"Mike lives in Virginia, works at a small law firm in Washington, D.C"
I see the problem with this.
Mike you really blew this one.
Treo - do you have a source for your comment that only 9 states require CHP holders to notify police if carrying per priviledge granted by permit? And are you including Texas which has repealed any penalty for not notifying?
Here in SC, if you have a CWP and are carrying/armed, you are required by law to immediately inform the LEO that you have a CWP and are armed if you are stopped or approached by a LEO on official bussiness. If you are not carrying/armed at the time then you are not required to show the CWP or even mention it. I don't have a problem with this. I would rather inform the officer up fromt than have the officer SUSPECT that I have a concealed weapon and hit the panic button.
Notification is required in Texas, so I always notify when in Texas or another jurisdiction (assuming it is lawful.) I notified the officer once when carrying in Georgia. The officer thanked me for it, but also informed me that notification wasn't required. I thought it was prudent since the pistol was on my belt and was fully exposed. I didn't want him to see it before I told him and complicate the "stop" (DUI roadblock.)
I think you have to consider the circumstances. There are dorks out there, but the criteria is dorky intent, not necessarily specific acts.
CCW permit holders have killed plenty of people and they commit lots of other crimes with their guns. Anyone so paranoid as to feel the need to carry a gun around with them 24/7 is someone any reasonable cop would be worried about.
To my knowledge (as of 12 mo ago) NC required displaying of a concealed carry permit to any officer regardless of carrying or not. Simply said, they can see that your vehicle is registered to a CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon?) permit holder.
Now, if it makes me a dork that I must show my CCW to any/all officers when approached as an official portion of their duty. then I'm a gun dork.
I also try not to say, "hey, occifer. can I see your gun." it's not like shop talk to him.
I think there's a bunch of folks who are carrying that feel empowered by the fact that they are exercising their 2nd amendment right. I think it's kinda like knowing you're standing in a place our founding fathers prepared for you to stand. and sometimes it's a little pride people have that they're actually taking ownership of a right spelled out by our founding fathers. People are utilizing a right that is unique in the world. I know there are other countries that may permit the carry of firearm, but not m
Those who carry (openly or concealed) should know the laws of the state in which they are carrying. If the law does not require notification of the officer, why bring the issue up?
For those concerned that the officer will find out you have a permit when he runs your plates or license, consider getting a non-resident permit from another state that is recognized by your state.
If your only "crime" is a minor traffic violation, why give the officer another issue (person with a gun) that he has to deal with? Be polite & let him deal with the issue he stopped you for, not an issue you bring up.
FWIW, Virginia law does not require notification. It only requires you to show your permit if the officer asks AND you are carrying concealed. If you are carrying openly, you don't have to show anything because there is no permit required for open carry.
Well, I'm pleased to see the firestorm of controversy my original comment seemed to ignite. My final take: I still have a BIG problem with Mike's lack of recognition in his article that at least 9 states (according to anecdotal info posted here) REQUIRE the person being pulled over to notify the LEO that s/he is (a) in possession of a gun and (b) is licensed accordingly. (btw, my comments obviously only apply to those actually IN POSSESSION of a firearm during the traffic stop; common sense says there's no need to inform if you aren't in possession.)
Granted, even in the (9?) states where required to disclose, there is still opportunity to 'act like a dork' and of course nobody would condone this. I agree that there is no INHERENT need to notify the LEO in the 'other states', but IMO Mike should have clarified the need to 'obey all laws where applicable'. His failure to do so only encourages citizens (in 9 states?) to break the law, making them no better than an ordinary criminal.
Well. I guess all I have to add is...
Takes one to know one.
Jeff B.
OKCPD - I think that not only would the permittee in a shall notify state haver to be in possession of a firearm, but also, the permittee must be carrying the gun pusuant to the privelege granted by the permit - so a permittee who's gun is say, stored elsewhere in the vhicle out of arms reach, or, carried openly where no permit is required to carry openly, e.g., North Carolina,would have no legal duty to notify
Entertainingly sensible read.
Sometimes I think that the entire issue can be made so complex, theres so many different opinions, and the laws themselves? Geez they don't change a thing. If someones is carrying concealed and they decide to murder, rob, or rape what possible good is it all. As far as the decent people like myself I'm about ready to just say the hell with it and not carry a concealed firearm outside my home. Rolling the dice with my ability to defend myself seems a much better bet than maybe getting tangled up in 1 or another of these b.s laws that are everywhere and can ruin your life very quickly. I mean everwhere you turn there's another law or reg to deal with. I think my life is safer without a firearm in my possession outside my house cuz I'm way more worried about laws and cops than I am about violent criminals attacking me. So I'm done with it, for now.
To BAN GUNS:
You claim that "CCW permit holders have killed plenty of people and they commit lots of other crimes with their guns. Anyone so paranoid as to feel the need to carry a gun around with them 24/7 is someone any reasonable cop would be worried about."
Let me clue you in--the cops DO carry 24/7/ So by your logic any cop who feels the need to carry 24/7 is someone the PEOPLE should be worried about.
You sir are a prime, grade A idiot. The educational system has failed you. I would like to see the Open Carry of firearms allowed EVERYWHERE. You should go live in Communist France if you don't like it here. Liberal gun hating, Constitution hating individuals should all, without exception be deported.
Knowledge is power. If you don't know research and find out. We are the greatest country on earth and if you disagree i suggest you travel outside the country before saying other wise. This is a good hearted discussion. The only part that gets to me is people that really think that we shouldn't express our rights under the 2nd Amendment. BAN GUNS: People start voting to tell you to keep your mouth or that the government can go through your stuff no matter what you say ( just so were clear the 1st and 4th Amendment) then well see what tune you are singing then. We take this right away from the people of the United States then what stops us from screwing up the rest. Thank you for your time and God Bless America.
Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”
That is, until Mr. BanGuns takes them away.
50 years ago, someone might have been considered paranoid to carry 24/7, but that was then and this is now. Unless you live the Mayberry, it's just prudent, not paranoid.
Our Constitution gives us the right to carry. Many states allow open carry. I have a card that allows me to "legally" carry concealed, and that is what I do, out of respect for the law and out of respect for those around me. It's amazing how many people will freak out at even the sight of a gun in a holster.
What I would really like to see is a common set of laws across this country so that while travelling I don't have to remember which states have which crazy laws.
Don't be a dork is good advice, but letting a police officer know you have a Carry permit and that to do or not have a firearm in the car is just plain good sense. I teach my Concealed Carry students, that when the officer approaches you politely inform him that you have [your state] carry permit and you have a firearm in the car. Then, (I believe this is important), ask the officer, "What would like me to do." Ask the question!. And be polite,not a dork. I have been pulled over twice while carrying and never had anything approaching a problem when I followed the advice above.
Dave:
The constitution doesn't give us the right to arms/carry. The second amendment like the others in the bill of rights is simply a declaration, which served to recognize these rights. The founding fathers saw fit to create a system which _PROTECTS_ those rights, and declaring them was the first step towards that goal.
A few men and piece of paper cannot grant (or disallow) that which is a preexisting natural right.
Here in VA, or Henrico County at least, as soon as the officer runs your plates, his computer feedback informs him that you are a licensed permit holder, that's why you are not required by law to tell them because they can already tell, unless you're driving a different vehicle. I completely disagree with this article. If you are pulled over in VA and are carrying a firearm, turn your dome light on, shut off your engine and put your keys on the dashboard, calmly do the normal "routine" mentioned above and hand the officer your concealed handgun permit at the same time you hand him your drivers license (they are going to know you have it anyway) and just be forthcoming with the information up front. You don't utter one word about it, only answer their subsequent questions. I have a friend who's a police officer. This is his advice. It makes them feel seef because you don't drop the "gun" word and scare them, but you calmly made them aware and most of the time they handle it fine.
In CA most counties that issue CCW permits REQUIRE holders to notify law enforcement upon contact . The author (Mike Stollenwerk) might try to research a subject before writing. CalCCW dot com for starters. The statistical reality is that most CCW permit holders are citizens that have not been or will not be involved in any illegal activity. The FBI and BI checks the counties perform tell the Sheriff who you really are before you're even considered for a permit. You know- potential legal liability.
Sorry but here in Michigan you are required by law to inform LE that you are carrying if you are stopped.
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