Finger-pointing follows national trend
As the investigation continues into Saturday’s double homicide at Lake Sammamish State Park in Issaquah, the blame game has already kicked off on the reader feedback columns in Seattle newspapers, and important new information is surfacing that must be checked out.
As predicted in this space yesterday, anti-gunners are already trying to twist this case to fit their gun prohibition agenda, blaming the National Rifle Association and its members. More about that nonsense in a moment.
King County Sheriff’s Sgt. John Urquhart told this column Tuesday morning that it is critical to establish the exact sequence of events to find out who fired first, who fired back, and how this went down step-by-step.
It may be very important to someone out there if (and this is a b-i-g "if" at this point) one of the two dead men, 30-year-old Justin Cunningham – who apparently was legally-licensed to carry a concealed handgun and, according to his brother, was not a gang member or even affiliated with a gang – fired first, as some apparently have suggested. Here’s why (and don’t kill the messenger): If Cunningham did fire first, fatally shooting Yang Keovongphet (identified in earlier accounts as Yang Keopraseurt), then whoever shot Cunningham may have acted within the parameters of Washington State’s excellently-crafted self-defense statute.
Likewise, if someone pulled a gun and fired (in the air as some earlier reports have indicated), after which Cunningham drew and fired in response, he may have been acting in self-defense. That is why establishing a sequence of events is critical to this case.
This, of course, will be up to the King County Prosecutor’s office to determine. A spokesman for that office properly said it would only be conjecture at this point to discuss this possibility because the investigation is not finished, and it has not been determined who shot Cunningham, and when that specifically happened as the events unfolded. It is, however, an interesting question. At one point, a source suggested to this column that the two dead men may have shot each other, but that has not been determined, either.
According to court documents, Keovongphet was sentenced to four years in prison after he pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree assault with a handgun in 1994. Cunningham had no felony convictions.—Seattle Times
This column has discussed previously Washington’s self-defense statute, which allows the use of lethal force in self-defense or in the defense of “his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or any other person in his presence or company, (emphasis added) when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished…”
Cunningham’s brother, Heath, was interviewed by at KING and KOMO. He insisted that the dead man had no gang connections and that he apparently was trying to intervene in a fight between two groups picnicking at the park and calm things down. It was Heath Cunningham who said his brother had a valid concealed pistol license, for his personal protection. If so, Justin was legally carrying in the park, as it is legal under state law to carry licensed, concealed handguns in state parks. (Watch someone lobby to change that.)
Urquhart has stated repeatedly that this may not have been a genuine gang fight, even if some of the participants are gang members. This makes sense. Gangs typically do not take their families and children to state parks on picnics as preparation for an armed confrontation in such a venue. Indeed, the theory that the two groups were at Lake Sammamish coincidentally is gaining traction, simply because it is the most credible explanation about why everyone was there.
About 25 shots were fired, four different handguns in three different calibers (9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP) were seized, and spent shell casings in each caliber were recovered at the scene. The fact that more people were not hit may be a small miracle, but it might also be because the combatants were pretty close together.
The King County Medical Examiner's Office said both Cunningham and Keovongphet died of multiple gunshot wounds. Both deaths were ruled homicides.—Seattle Times
Recall the famous Gunfight at the O.K. Corral in Tombstone in October 1881 between the Earp and Clanton factions. Three people were killed, three others wounded, 30 shots were exchanged in less than 30 seconds and nobody else got hurt. The shooting was at close range, essentially the same at Sammamish.
The King County Medical Examiner’s office said both Cunningham and Keovongphet were hit multiple times.
If Keovongphet was armed and fired back – and investigators are still trying to sort that out – he would have been illegally packing because of his criminal record. In 1994, according to the Seattle Times, he pleaded guilty to second degree assault with a handgun and pulled a four-year prison sentence. That’s a felony rap that forever prohibits someone from possessing a firearm under federal law.
And this brings us around to people who are being quick to blame the National Rifle Association (and by extension other gun rights groups) for this incident. The Times’ reader comment section contains some accusatory gems of reasoning that are so preposterous as to be laughable, were this not in the wake of such a grim incident.
One individual, identifying himself/herself as “Bush nemesis” (from the “far left coast”) opined, “Bush and the gun lobby pumped unprecedented amounts of semiautomatic assault weapons into the economy. The NRA crowed that gun-maker stocks such as Smith and Wesson and Ruger were at an all-time high. As is gun violence.”
Actually, violent crime (What’s this “gun violence” people talk about? Is that any different than “knife violence” or “baseball bat violence?”) in this country is down, according to recent crime data, which this column discussed here on May 24. We also revisited the issue when we discussed a recent special on gun control with Fox News’ John Stossel, here.
Another nimrod, “Larry” from Olympia, commented on the Times’ web page that, “What went wrong is the gun nuts (sic) vision of everybody armed, all the time, is coming to pass. NRA members, you are at fault. Congratulations. Soon everybody will cower at home. Thanks for taking always (sic) all my freedoms, you jerks. Maybe now you will start to think for yourselves? I doubt it. You are unable.”
The NRA prefers people to be armed legally, and to go about their business peaceably, if they choose to be armed. The NRA recognizes that many people choose not to be armed or even own firearms, and that’s a personal choice with which this column has never heard an objection coming from the NRA or any other gun rights group. Where the NRA justifiably takes issue is when gun prohibitionists want to disarm law-abiding citizens in the warped belief that this will make everyone safer.
If one were to have a choice between living under Larry’s vision of Utopia or the NRA’s environment of personal liberty (with the accompanying responsibility), my guess is the majority will – as they have ably demonstrated in the past by popular vote in Washington, Massachusetts, California and elsewhere – choose the NRA’s position on this issue.
A Times reader identifying himself/herself as “imupset” from Vancouver offered this: “At the risk of offending NRA members…I believe something must be done to address the handgun problem. Those of us who don’t own guns need some consideration (and constitutional protection) too.”
What “handgun problem” is that? Handguns do not, by themselves, commit crimes. There is no constitutional right to not be offended by the fact that people own handguns, and the overwhelming majority do so responsibly.
But these NRA-bashers shouldn’t feel lonesome. They are joined by the Philadelphia Daily News in its hand-wringing over guns and thugs, and the Roanoke, VA Times, which laments that the state can’t pass a law closing the so-called “gun show loophole” even after Virginia Tech. It makes no difference to gun prohibitionists, of course, that the Virginia Tech gunman bought his pistols at retail, after a waiting period, and not at a gun show. Why derail an agenda with facts, huh?
The past two years have been a disaster in Congress for sensible limits on guns, with the National Rifle Association getting just about anything it wants from politicians who are afraid of its wrath.-Philadelphia Daily News
===============
(Rep. Bobby) Scott showed his moxie by chairing the forum, which included among invited panelists Gerald Massengill, retired Virginia State Police superintendent, who was chairman of the state investigation of the Virginia Tech rampage of gunman, Seung-Hui Cho, who took 32 people's lives.Among the investigators' conclusions was that Virginia should close the so-called gun show loophole, a provision that allows private sales at gun shows without running computerized background checks on buyers, as federally licensed firearms dealers must do.—Roanoke Times
King County homicide investigators will sort through the evidence, come up with the facts, and establish who did what to whom, and when. Meanwhile, this story is no reason to stay away from state parks.
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Comments
So the NRA is at fault because members weren't present to lay down a withering field of suppression fire?
The three people you cited sound like they all have had a little too much of their own weed to smoke. Freedom to them is having no rights and more importantly no responsibility for anything but society should support them anyway.Bet none of them work for a living. as for the shootings, the only people who can bear responsibility for those shots are the ones who fired the guns. Until all the facts are in and we know what happened any conclusions that are reached will undoubtably be either false or inaccurate to some degree. We do know if Mr. Yang Keovongphet had a gun he was already guilty of a felony. if he drew that gun forcing Justin Cunningham to use his it may have been self defense for Jason against a felon in possession of a firearm and killing Cunningham may be murder after all and not self defense. Only time and evidence will tell and everyone giving a statement should be given a lie detector test as well. The NRA was an innocent bystander just like everyone else.
The first thing that a gun prohibitionist will do when a violent crime is in progress will be to (select one of the following)
A) Call 911 and ask the police to come as quickly as possible.
B) Call the police and ask them to NOT bring their guns.
I'm not sure if this is a reputable news source or not, but I'm thinking not. I've never seen a news article call someone a "nimrod" before! LOL!
Maybe some people are becoming overly defensive of gun rights (this author being one of them).
The NRA pushes for guns to be allowed EVERYWHERE, but there needs to be a balance. Why do guns need to be allowed in State parks of all places? A lot of us average Americans feel like a State park should be a natural and SAFE environment. Back when they passed legislation making guns in State parks legal, I was like "Well great, now I can't take my kid camping ever." Exactly because of this. I was thinking that soon some idiot will get drunk and get in a fight with another drunk idiot and someone will have brought their gun with them and start shooting. People get drunk in State parks all the time, its normal. So guns in State parks of all places- not a good idea, NRA.
--Duh.--
For Brent H.
By the way, police in the UK never carry guns unless its a necessity for a special situation and they manage just fine. I'm sure that if the police in 5 of the most developed and prosperous countries in the world more than manage without any guns ours could figure out a way too.
I'm not a "gun prohibitionist" and I wouldn't ask the cops not to bring, just saying your point makes absolutely zero sense.
Juji,
Then please move to a country where the police do not carry guns. Assuming that you can find such a place today. While the Bobbies in the UK did not carry firearms as a matter of course, that practice is on its' way out as violence seems to be increasing in the UK. Why that would be now that they have passed laws outlawing most firearms for most people, not to mention banning knives and even glass drinking glasses in pubs, I have no idea.
As far as not carrying in State parks, are you freaking insane? Do you not want the ability to protect yourself and your family from 2 or 4 legged predators? Is your kung fu really a match for whatever snakes, bears, wolves, wild pigs, rapists, or illicit narcotics traffickers exist in your locale?
Look, I don't care if you choose to step down a notch or so on the food chain. ALL that I ask is that you vote with your feet. Here in the US the right to keep and bear arms is enshrined in our founding document.
The entire country should close the gun show loophole, and maybe now we can, via the Commerce clause since McDonald incorporated the Second Amendment. The decision to regulate that part of "gun sales" needs to be taken out of the hands of the states.
Regarding the picnic shooting, Yang died without a gun, or so the newspaper said.
Juji,
Finally, please note the old western saying, " God created humans, but Sam Colt made them equal". Think on that for a minute. By stating that you want restrictions on people who do not wear badges means that you believe that people should not be equal. I have a problem with that, but then I may have heard too many stories from rape victims.
People who don't wear badges shouldn't be equal to those who wear badges! If Joe Blow who doesn't have a badge wants to be equal to the police, he should apply for a job with the police!
Beth says:
"People who don't wear badges shouldn't be equal to those who wear badges! If Joe Blow who doesn't have a badge wants to be equal to the police, he should apply for a job with the police!"
Thomas Jefferson says:
"We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal."
It's a terrible shame that they didn't cover The Declaration of Independence in Beth's school. Or perhaps she cut class that day.
Beth, you need to re-read the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution, then review U.S. history.
Check back in when you are done....
Let me guess.. Beth, Juji, you've never been raped, beaten or attacked by anyone anywhere. I'm so glad you've been lucky that way.
If you ever ARE attacked, however, I pray to God that you or someone who cares about you is nearby and armed.
I've already had to shoot a man to save my life. HE gave me no choice. And if I had not been armed, I would be dead.
Is that the peaceful utopia you envision?
Dave I don’t blame the NRA for this shooting but I do blame the NRA for allowing the door to be opened for all of this anti-gun hype.
It was NRA support of the 1930 Uniform Federal firearms act, 68 GCA and the Brady Bill NICS that gave us these so-called disqualifiers
The media is trying to spin the fact that Keovongphet was illegally packing because of his criminal record.
Then you ad the old NRA vomit about the NRA prefers people to be armed legally
Well what is legally Dave? If Keovongphet was out of prison then he has a God given right to Keep and Carry firearms where ever he goes including crossing state lines.
Has long has Keovongphet or anyone else has PEACFUL intentions I don’t care what they do.
For crying out loud Dave we bought guns through the mail before the nra sold us out in 68. Non-violent felons could own guns and we didn’t have the crime we have today.
WHY cant you report on that Dave?
We have lost more freedom due to NRA compromise than any
continued...
We have lost more freedom due to NRA compromise than any threat from a foreign power
To me my 2A right is also my 1A right. My owning a firearm is me obeying God!
We were told by our Lord to sell our garments and arm ourselves
I’m sick and tired of the NRA trying to tell me I have to have a permission slip from government to OBEY GOD!
sorry beth,this is the U.S.A. not commie China
Just look at the violence in Chicago and their restrictive gunlaws. Only criminals have guns in that town.
If there were stricter gun laws and none of the people involved carried guns, there would have been no deaths. Imagine the scene where everyone involved had a gun. One guy pulls out a gun and all others do the same - for defense or ortherwise. The result would merely have been more deaths. As for guns for "protection", why not lobby for more police forces and neighborhood watches? Very few who own guns are responsible enough to use them.
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