"No One But the Authorities Should Have 'Assault Weapons'"
If these people had "assault weapons," they would probably (check all that apply):
___ rob liquor stores
___ engage in drive-by shootings
___ leave them lying around where their kids could find them
___ blow away motorists during traffic disputes
___ go on schoolyard rampages
___ accidentally kill friends and family members
___ none of the above
Might there be a moral, historically justified need for "non-sporting" arms in the hands of "average citizens"? The next time someone tells you we need to ban "assault weapons," ask them to take this test. Why not send a copy of it to the politicians who represent you and see how they answer?
[Adapted from my poster that originally appeared on GunTruths.com]
Check out the latest from other Gun Rights Examiners: Austin: Philadelphia cop killers: guns or politics? Charlotte: Guns and the Constitution: The 'well regulated Militia' Cleveland: Gun confiscation: can it happen again?
DC: Maryland Governor Martin O’Malley: Damn the high crimes rates, full speed ahead on gun control! Denver: A thought experiment Los Angeles: Gun control in churches, Part II: The Militia. Milwaukee: Time to change our attitude about guns Minneapolis: Dispelling the myth of “The Wild West” St. Louis: Hunting rifles--the next 'sniper weapons'
Comments
Of course they want to disarm us to end this country being operated under what is left of the Constitution. The key to that is to disarm the citizen body.
The statement that proves us little people have a huge problem is: A government that lies to its people is not a government for the people.
This government lies, steals, cheats, covers up for criminal wrong doing by it own. It shakes down the hard working productive folks who are trying to raise families by threat of prison or death to steal and waste their hard earned money. That by itself should be something that wakes up people. This latest bailout money is only buying time so this government can get the rest of the pieces in place to rule this country with the Marxist iron fist. The workers are working over time on the FEMA camps. All the cameras are in place at the intersections and the local cops are not militarized and under orders of the federal government. Tick tock tick tock tick tock........
C'mon, David.
It's not like American troops and/or FedGov employees have ever shot/killed/imprisoned fellow Americans simply for protesting or otherwise exercising Constitutional rights.
Other than:
- At Kent State in 1970
- During the "Bonus Army" marches in the summer of 1932
- the internment camps for Japanese-American and German-American citizens during WW2
- At Ruby Ridge in 1992
- At Waco in 1993
You can't really believe that our wonderful government employees might actually need to be kept from imprisoning or murdering their fellow citizens at the muzzle of gun, can you?
</sarcasm off>
Seriously, great post and great "test question".
You forgot an option for "still be alive".
I refuse to give standing to anyone who seriously uses the term "assault weapon," as no one has ever come up with an agreed to definition of what is or isn't one. Assault is an action, a conscious one, performed by a thinking being. I can assault you with a tree branch. So, what in some miscreant's hands would be the means to an assault in the hands of a soldier, law officer, or honest citizen becomes the means of protection and self defense.
And as the saying goes, gun control isn't about guns, it's about control.
None of my guns have ever assaulted anyone, unless you count the kick to the shoulder I get when firing them, but I'll forgive them for that,
The state doesn't want you armed for two reasons. They don't want you threatening their monopoly and money vacuum for providing more "more security." Secondly, they want to control you to engineer you against your will, which is evil and criminal. So, if criminals were writing the laws, wouldn't we expect them to want their victims defenseless? It only makes sense.
There have got to be 1000's of photos like this. You could tack on a test to an article every few weeks.
People disarmed by their gov't are the walking dead, then later the gov't finishes the job.
Many of my collection of firearms have been used for assaults but none of them were that made up category of "assault weapons". Most are single shot, if not muzzle loaders. Martini-Henry and Whitworth rifles were never "sporting arms" as far as I know nor Brown Bessies, though some of them were sporterized.
Mine did their work in the hands of military between the mid 16th century and today.
On the other hand, none of my AR-15s have ever shot anything but targets and varmints.
What's an "assault weapon" again? These liberal terms confuse me.
That's why I put it in quotation marks...
But guys like Josh Sugarmann are counting on the media not knowing (or caring)...
I have always had an interest in history so when I asked my grandmother if she ever heard from any family members who were still in Russia. She said the last time there was any word from them was in 1932. They were German farmers who lived in Russia. Stalin did not trust them so they were executed or sent to gulags. I was probably no more than 10 years old at the time(mid-1960's) and have had a extreme hatred for any form of socialism since. I believe I will hang on to my firearms, there are worse things than death.
My friend has an assault rifle.
I talked him into buying a 1943 No.4 SMLE when a local shop sold them for $100.
He took his home and cleaned it up and found a molar in the but stock.
No doubt it belonged to a NAZI once.
I offered to take the evil rifle off his hands, but so far no deal.
He says it will hit the steel plate out at 700 yards reliably.
Kentucky Coal Mine Riots of the late 1920s. Coal companies owned the governor, and in Harlan Conty the courts and the sheriff. No more than three miners were allowed to confer at one time (company law to prevent union organizing) on union property which included the miners homes and the cola camps. All company thugs were deputized. Miners houses and organizers homes were dynamited by the thugs with families inside (Peggy Dweyer).
On Black Sunday the miners ambushed the sheriff and a convoy full of thugs who were on the way to break up a strike at one of the mines. The gunfight lasted for hours. Shortly thereafter the governor call out the Guard to support the companies and thugs. This led the President to nationalizing the Kentucky State Guard to wrest control of the Guard from the state governor. My gand father was one of the ambushing miners. Later, his brother and a group of miners were ambushed in the company store after they had just come up from the mines after shift. Thugs armed with shotguns and Thompsons were up in the rafters of the store when the miners came in and proceeded to open fire on the miners at which time my great uncle was killed.
My grand father was the first treasurer of the UMW in Harlan. He was mortally injured in a mining accident in 1932. The company (Black Diamond, subsidiary of Peabody Coal) got their revenge on the family however, when three days after his death they kicked my grandmother and her four children out of their company home and sent her a bill for my grandfather,s three days in the company hospital. By the way she was eight months pregnant at the time.
A long but true story of the real reason for the Second Amendment.
Concerned American, under that list of Constitutional abuses you can add G. Washington and A. Hamilton's Whiskey Rebellion, and that all time favorite: A. Lincoln's War of Northern Aggression.
Sadaam Huessain permitted virtually everyone to own a firearm during his reign-Wasn't he repressive? Guns, while needed for protection are so prevelent in our society, that we have lost some of our rights; like the freedom to assemble, freedom of speech, and freedom to live where we would choose.
For one thing quit using an emotional appeal when it comes to gun control. This is like the what about the children appeal.
Adding more gun control will only dive guns underground. This will increase black market gun sales. Banning things don't work! And the argument of hunters etc don't need what is being defined as an assault rile is bogus.
For one thing the term assault rifle seems to change daily to have a very broad meaning. If you actually look at any data, god forbid, assault rifles are used in very few crimes.
If I want to legally own a firearm I should have the right. A person makes the choice to use a gun not the other way around.
If you we want to have a true impact on
gun violence, lets look at the root cause. Poverty and the war on drugs are two of the largest. Why don't we put the money that is sunk into the bottomless pit of the war on drugs into eliminating poverty in this country.
This would also enable law enforcement to concentrate on keeping the public safe and not chasing drugs all the time.
We won't though. All of the policies in this country are adopted on a illogical emotional appeal!
Phil,
truly a gripping story about your grandfather and great uncle. As a Canadian, I can understand why the Second Amendment was needed. However, let me impress upon you that I mean it when I say "was needed" as oppose to "is needed".
I say this because I question how the times have changed, how the law is applied, how we have evolved, how media plays a part in ensuring that all events are covered with a fine tooth comb.
Could any of these events play out the same way today as it did back then? I wonder about the Waco Texas massacre and the Ruby Ridge siege... would those events have played out differently without firearms in the hands of civilians?
I'm thinking that all the people killed in those stand-offs would still be alive today. They would have seen their day in court. They would have had their opportunity to be heard. Instead, it appears to me that firearms often lead to escalation of violence. The end results are never good.
That said, let me then argue that I would enjoy defending myself against a perp if he or she set foot on my property. The only problem is that I feel confident with my better judgement that I would only use deadly force when absolutely necessary. However, think about how dumb your average person is... knowing that, statiscally speaking, the other half of that average are even dumber. Would you want them to carry firearms?
So I weigh possible escalation with the need to defend oneself and I am left with the most important question... are gun laws too soft to allow civilians the right to bear arms knowing that their misuse would have dire consequences? Perhaps... It is up for ya' all to figure that one out. Up here in Canada, we seem to be doing better without a Second Amendment. I wonder why you can't do the same... just food for thought.
Gerry, you have aroused my anger. Yeah, blame the women and children killed in those incidents by the filthy f***ing ATF agents for killing them with withering rifle fire then setting them ablaze and "forgetting" to refrigerate the evidence. Yeah, blame Vicki Weaver for that piece of human excrement Lon Horiuchi for shooting her through the head. And OMG. "The only problem is that I feel confident with my better judgement that I would only use deadly force when absolutely necessary. However, think about how dumb your average person is... knowing that, statiscally speaking, the other half of that average are even dumber. Would you want them to carry firearms?" You arrogant, elitist piece of crap. You are the very person who would push people into trains and into ovens thinking it was for the betterment of everyone else. Governments lead to the escalation of violence, not guns. If the government hadn't gotten invovled then those people wouldn't have been killed by their government. See, thats how you do logic Gerry.
Watch out everyone, Gerry is coming for you, just like Gerry did in 1942.
Ok. Let's say for instance that the government is really out to exterminate you and your family.
And you have prepared for this by legally arming yourself with the maximum amount of firepower available to a U.S. civilian. You are 100% legal and within your rights.
Do you really think you'll be able to stop laser-guided munitions dropped from 20,000-30,000 feet with your legally-acquired weapon? Do you think you'll ever even see the Navy SEAL who puts the laser-emitter on your roof?
Do you suppose your legally acquired weapon will prevent a chemical attack from a tank sitting a half-mile to your north? How many rounds of ammo do you think it will take to win when the government decides to poison your water? Do you REALLY think you can outshoot a two-man Marine sniper team? How many of them do you think you can defeat? One? Two? A hundred? You honestly believe that you can outshoot 100 Marine sniper teams from your standard brick-n-mortar American home?
Get real. When the government wants you dead you will be dead. Should you cause the deaths of any American soldiers commiting atroicities or violating your rights then the media will simply use this as proof that your death was necessary for order and security.
This "Guns will secure our rights" argument is a canard in the age of smart weapons and megatonnage. Always has been. Always will be.
Steve,
You shouldn't make it that easy for me to prove my point. Would hate to see a weapon in your hands... escalation is your idea of a good solution?
My original point was that there is no good solution here and despite the atrocities of those events, I wonder... (Trust me Steve, I'm with you on how the Government played its part in those events). Nonetheless, I try to think about outcomes and how they can be improved upon as oppose to exacerbating a bad situation.
But hey, if my wondering gets me that kind of feedback then bring it on. Am sure that everyone loves hearing about how you can positively contribute to a touchy subject.
The trains and ovens comment bothers me buddy... go see a doctor about that. There's no need to tie me to something that evil. Vilifying me is a sad, sad way of discussing your side of the topic. Say what you need to say in a kind and intelligent manner and we will all listen. As I have previously stated, I wonder about certain things and because I share the capacity to think, it doesn't mean that I am evil in any way, shape, or form.
Monsignor is right. I'm giving up right now. There is no reason to try. No one anywhere has ever fought against overwhelming odds at any time, for any reason. It's not worth fighting for the chance that your children may be free. Ever. /sarc.
Let us know how that works out for you.
May your chains rest lightly on your neck.
Who has killed more people in the 20th Century? Civillians with guns or Governments for guns? I think governments win by about 299Million people. 'Nuff said.
Enjoy the train ride. I'm sure you'll welcome however your totalitarian overlord sees fit to dispose of you.
So Monsignor- We should roll over and let tyrants do with us as they like?
Is that what the Macabees did?
How about the Irish, the Finns, the Vietnamese, or the American Colonists?
Hell, what about the Iraqi insurgents or the Lebanese who recently kicked Israel out?
Where did you learn history, a public school?
Steve,
You shouldn't make it that easy for me to prove my point. Would hate to see a weapon in your hands... escalation is your idea of a good solution?
My original point was that there is no good solution here and despite the atrocities of those events, I wonder... (Trust me Steve, I'm with you on how the Government played its part in those events). Nonetheless, I try to think about outcomes and how they can be improved upon as oppose to exacerbating a bad situation.
But hey, if my wondering gets me that kind of feedback then bring it on. Am sure that everyone loves hearing about how you can positively contribute to a touchy subject.
The trains and ovens comment bothers me buddy... go see a doctor about that. There's no need to tie me to something that evil. Vilifying me is a sad, sad way of discussing your side of the topic. Say what you need to say in a kind and intelligent manner and we will all listen. As I have previously stated, I wonder about certain things and because I share the capacity to think, it doesn't mean that I am evil in any way, shape, or form.
Monsignor sings the lullabye of borg slavery, "resistance is futile":
"Ok. Let's say for instance that the government is really out to exterminate you and your family. And you have prepared for this by legally arming yourself with the maximum amount of firepower available to a U.S. civilian. You are 100% legal and within your rights. Do you really think you'll be able to stop laser-guided munitions dropped from 20,000-30,000 feet with your legally-acquired weapon?"
MBV: Yes, by killing the UAV operator, raiding the airbase before the strike is launched, killing the pilot while he is defenseless in the arms of a provided patriotic prostitute. There is ALWAYS a way.
Monsignor: "Do you think you'll ever even see the Navy SEAL who puts the laser-emitter on your roof?"
MBV: Uh, dickhead, its a "laser designator." If you're going to try to scare people, at least get the evil clown's name right.
Monsignor: "Do you suppose your legally acquired weapon will prevent a chemical attack from a tank sitting a half-mile to your north?"
MBV: Again, your ignoraqnce is astounding. Tanks do not have standoff chemical weapon dispensers. Can't you at least conjure some demonic threat that is believeable?
Monsignor: "How many rounds of ammo do you think it will take to win when the government decides to poison your water?"
MBV: Again, patently ridiculous. How can a governemnt, ANY government, wage a civil war against an enemy that is across, athwart and within ITS OWN LOGISTICAL TAIL? All you're doing here is demonstrating your own military ignorance. Let's get this straight. You want us to be frightened of an INVENTED boogeyman from your own imagination?
Monsignor: "Do you REALLY think you can outshoot a two-man Marine sniper team?"
MBV: Me? No. Some of many friends? Oh most certainly yes. You are also assuming that Marines will take orders from collectivist dickheads to kill their own neighbors and relatives. They are more likely to shoot the SOB who gave the opder.
Monsignor: "How many of them do you think you can defeat? One? Two? A hundred?"
MBV: As many as they send, jerk. As many as they send, with a little help from my friends.
Monsignor: "You honestly believe that you can outshoot 100 Marine sniper teams from your standard brick-n-mortar American home?"
MBV: again, you're assuming they will fight on the evil bad guys' side, but even if they do, why would I want to wait for them? There are better ways to kill people in righteous self-defense than standing up and waiting on them.
Monsignor: "Get real. When the government wants you dead you will be dead."
MBV: Perhaps. But when they do, they will have sown the wind to reap the whirlwind.
Monsignor: "Should you cause the deaths of any American soldiers commiting atrocities or violating your rights then the media will simply use this as proof that your death was necessary for order and security."
MBV: Certainly. And right after that, my firends will enforce Bill Clinton's Serbian rules of engagement on the politicians who sent the killers and the media who support them. They are willing to fight to last ATF agent. Are they willing to fight to the first politician? The second editor? The third media talking head? If they try it, we will find out.
Monsignor: "This 'Guns will secure our rights' argument is a canard in the age of smart weapons and megatonnage."
MBV: Really? Then I guess the Red Chinese didn't fight us to standstill in Korea, the North Vietnamese lost the last Southeast fracas, and Robert McNamara is your candidate for sainthood.
Again we see the obvious fact that you have never smelled gunpowder, cordite, burning buildings and bloated bodies. Of what utility are WMDs IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY WHICH YOU SEEK TO CONTROL?
Monsignor: "Always has been. Always will be."
MBV: NEVER has been. NEVER will be.
I can only suggest that you crawl back in your uninformed hole, hide and watch. We will demonstrate how it is done, if we are attacked. You are welcome to take notes.
-- Mike Vanderboegh
Pinson, AL
sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com
GeorgeMason1776@aol.com
Oh Mike, you said it all. Thanks for making it so clear. I hope the politicians and their paid goons are listening.
Say, I don't shoot nearly as well as your boys, but I can cook and tie a mean bandage. I'll be there.
Monsignor, you trot out the same old worn out "the Second Amendment is obsolete" nonsense I heard in college an law school. It's a favorite of gun haters. I always enjoyed giving my metrosexual profs and classmates a very detailed, graphic expose on how it could be done, unconventional warfare style.
Mike V. has ably done that here, so I won't repeat it. I would only add that you should pick up a copy of Secret Freedom Fighter (available on Amazon).
As Mike said, you have no friggin clue.
And, I second what he said about the military - you SHOULD NOT count on having them on your side (and that is what we are talking about here, isn't it? Whether they will be on our side or on yours?).
Remember, the military in this country is predominantly conservative, from rural conservative states (you know, all those states that are now debating, and passing, sovereignty resolutions threatening secession if the feds go too far).
Most of them grew up around guns and are pro-gun. And gun confiscation is the most likely spark.
And since there is no longer a Republican in the White House, far fewer of the troops are going to be obedient simply because their man is in the White House. I'll wager a bet that most of them don't get the warm fuzzies over a radical Marxist, gun hating Democrat from Harvard.
And I believe in the not too distant future you will have some very convincing evidence that you will not be able to count on them. I and some other vets are about to do our part in making sure of it, "to the utmost extent of our power," as the motto of my Army unit put it.
If it ever comes to a fight, it might just be that the only thing between us and you will be thin air and a few wanna-be quislings in black nylon drag.
Sound fun?
Stewart Rhodes
Never ever cut off a cottonmouth's tail if you can cut off his head, Monsignor. So yes, if we must, we can win.
You have revealed something about yourself that I am sure you wouldn't want others to know. But I am going to tattle on you, NYAAAH NYAAH,NYAAAAH.
In your projections of the futility of one defending his rights, his life, his liberty, his family, and yes, his country you proposed that the worst possible outcome would be his death due to superior firepower and technology of the enemy. Therein lies the reason you are not acceptable in the company of men,and try to dissuade them from manly duties. I understand why you do it, it is Hell to be aware of one's inferiority, especially in matters moral. But you have revealed that nothing, absolutely nothing, not family, not liberty, not country, is worth risking your life or physical security. For you there is nothing worse than death. Not the death of wife and children, not the death of liberty, not the death of your nation, nothing exceeds your fear of your personal death.
Therefore you can't imagine that there are those who will risk all, knowing they might lose all, yet willingly do so in order that should they not survive the struggle they have advanced the cause of those who pick up the banner of freedom after he has fallen.
You can't imagine that a man would do this out of love. Love for his children, whom he hopes grow up in liberty, love of his nation that once believed in liberty, and love of kindred spirits who hold common ground with him in preserving and/or restoring liberty.
I posit that you can't imagine these things because you love nothing more than you love yourself. You are in a lot of company. And you are all doomed, because none of you will ever come to the aid of the others when "they come for you".
So don't preach to me that we should just give up now and bow before the state because they can hurt us. They have already hurt you. They have made you surrender you manhood and humanity. And they did it with nothing but threats and newscasts about the futility of resisting assaults on your freedom. Just think what you would give them if they just slapped you a bit.
So no, don't preach to me. Pray for personal restoration, instead.
I thank God every day for Gun Rights Examiner and Sipsy Street Irregulars. The men and women I have met in these pages have restored my faith that there are many, many, many who have not forgotten the Revolution, and the sacrifices that were made that we may have the freedom we do, and have the knowing that it is that freedom which is all that truely makes life worth living.
Monsignor, a brief few hundred years ago, men took honor and pledged their health, wealth and lives to resist tyranny. That spirit still lives today. I may die resisting in my home, but I assure you, that there will be at least one fewer amoung the wanna be kings men. Those who want our freedom would do well to think on that innocent nursery rhyme, and consider the real consequences of taking the egg they wish to hold. Moreover, they should consider honestly that which makes the egg valuable in the first place.
Monsignor: "This 'Guns will secure our rights' argument is a canard in the age of smart weapons and megatonnage."
If that were true, why in the you-know-what are we STILL fighting First Generation warfare (Guerrilla warfare) and calling it Fourth Generation warfare?
Monsignor, why don't you ask some former Soviet soldiers how well their "advanced" weapons worked against the Afghans back in the 80's?
You put WAY to much stock in delicate, easily spoofed sensors. Every sensor and detection system has it's weaknesses. Find them, exploit them, and kill the advanced weaponry. (ECCCW)
BTW, since virtually all our advanced weaponry and sensor systems are SOFTWARE driven, just what do you think a software VIRUS specifically targeting those systems would do to them?
As we were told in the Air Force, ultimately, everyone is a ground-pounder.
"The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state controlled police and the military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy. Not for nothing was the revolver called an 'equalizer.' Egalite implies liberte. And always will. Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws." Edward Abbey from Abbey's Road 1979
Monsignor, your grasp of history, human nature, and the American spirit I find completely wanting. But then you are most likely extrapolating and projecting from your own cowardice. It's no skin off my teeth and I do pity you and your kind. But there is a significant danger that lies with your position and that is ignoring or underestimating the unintended consequences such folly would bring about.
If the .gov and their fellow travelers were foolish enough to start the kind of scenario you seem to think would be impossible to overcome by a rag tag bunch of civilians armed with nothing more than firearms, our determination and our wits; you grossly underestimate where we're coming from and where we've been. Sure, they've got us surrounded and out gunned, the poor bastards. But after that what are they going to do?
We've been playing nice and by the rules for decades now. Even though we've had some victories in the courts and the legislatures with Heller, right to carry, etc. we're still a long way from whre we should be if our essential civil right were taken seriously as in "shall not be infringed". And please don't trot out the old "every yokel should then have a right to tactical nukes and cruise missiles, etc", that's so boring and silly and so not what we're talking about.
If a wrong turn is taken down that road, those of us that love our families, cherish our liberties, hold the Constitution dearly and stand by and live by our principles, will fight. Trust me, that is the very last thing that we want to do. But if the choice comes down to fighting for what is our birth right or surrendering to slavery, then there will be no choice and the war will begin. Yes, in the beginning many of us will likely die but that will only steel our resolve and swell our ranks. Very few of us have just fallen off the turnip truck and many of us have given the matter great thought and have devoted considerable time, energy and resources to something that we sincerely pray will never come to pass. It is a citizen's duty to be prepared for unfortunate circumstances. Those of us left after the opening engagements will make the Viet Cong and the mujahadin look like rank amateurs and merciful choirboys in comparison. Trust me, this is something that we as fellow citizens, as neighbors, as a nation, do not want to do.
We are not the bad guys. All we want to do is live our lives in peace and be able to exercise our rights and liberties, morally, ethically and lawfully, as we see fit. Nothing more and certainly nothing less.
You would show great wisdom (if for no other reason than pure self interest and the love of your family and friends) if you would encourage your friends, your legislators and any other authorities that you may have contact with to stop the assault on our civil rights that is gun control. No good has yet to come from it and more of it will only make matters much, much worse.
Do the right thing.
Paul: The Afghans were given advanced weapons by the US. Do you think the Afghans manufactured Stingers in their caves? It wasn't a war between a professionally trained military and a general population with smalls arms: it was professionals against amateurs with advanced weapons and a modicum of training and a lot of other assistance (sat intel, advanced comms, SAM weapons, etc).
Good luck with that virus thing. It may work in the movies, but in the real world, its just a little bit harder to infect software embedded in ROM with no external network connections and no way to reprogram the device without the use of a screwdriver.
The terrorists have shown us how difficult it is to fight a stealthy guerilla war, and, as referenced earlier, the Afghanis held off the Soviets until they finally gave up and left.
Gerry and Monsignior are truly full of themselves in their haughty, self-righteous arrogance.
The terrorists have shown us how difficult it is to fight a stealthy guerilla war, and, as referenced earlier, the Afghanis held off the Soviets until they finally gave up and left. Monsignor, the gov't doesn't want to use nukes in its own back yard. They don't want to destroy us; there's no point in that. They want to control us. And Mike Vanderboegh is right: we can find out the weaknesses of the military's weaponry, and there are improvisable weapons besides our rifles. We can win, but not if we are disarmed.
Gerry, you said that you'd enjoy defending yourself against a "perp". With what? The gun you so obviously eschew? Or something more physical and close up, like a knife, club, or your bare knuckles? If Mr. Bad Guy has a gun, you are so out of luck! And what do you mean, enjoy? Those who choose to carry a gun for self-defense only do so after much sober reflection. Those who have to shoot in self-defense do not "enjoy" the act. Most would be really rattled that they had to take a life in defense of their own. You, however appear to be just a little too eager. By the way, I've seen quite a few horror stories coming from Canada, so you are far too smug in your self-righteousness.
Monsignor, A few words and I'm not going to beat you up. First thing is I would rather be with God than to be ruled by the iron fist of Marxist. I'm not spooked by death, but I want to stay here as long as I can to save as many souls that I can. If I do get drawn into a fight, it will be so we can be free to live as free men so I can keep saving souls. Anyone that stands in the way of us staying free is blocking our way and too many souls will go to the land of the devil, because we lost our freedom.
Win, we will do if forced to fight. Here's something you never thought of. Where are the government people going to live? Down the street from a lot of T'ed off fighters? Think of all the judges, clerk of courts and tax collectors. Than the citizen cop who lives where you and the rest of us live. So are they going to drive out a lot of families from their homes and make "green zones" for traders to live in. Sounds like a rich target to me.
The system is crashing all around you and the very people doing it you want to empower more so. You need to rethink your line of thoughts because you simply do not get it.
What fun!!
Great responses from the heavy hitters.
Kudos MV, MR, and SA.
Mike Vanderboegh: Monsignor sings the lullabye of borg slavery, "resistance is futile": - ;)
On "Monsignor's" craven logic of figuring the odds, the Royal Air Force *never* should have taken up the task that they did in the summer of 1940. It was a doomed futility.
{hah!}
And those people weren't even *Americans*.
Hi, I'm nobody - no traffic tickets, never fingerprinted, wear my seatbelt, drive under the speed limit, and lest any of the white folk get scared, I want to state for the record all I'm about to say is strictly hypothetical.
Monsignor, I hope you drop back by because I have some things for you to think about.
Sad to say, I do not own a rifle other then an old tube feed .22, and in these hard times, I do not think I can convince the love of my life to let me invest a chunk of money in anything of military utility - so be it.
I am old, fat, and slow and would be a drag on any militia unit that would let me join - so be it.
Barney Fife could give me a 10 second head start and still fish the bullet out of his pocket in time to win a confrontation - so be it.
If you Google "AFSCME Obama Rally" and select the images tab, you can find an picture of a group of happy, green-shirted public employees at a political rally - all smiling in their matching colors - its sort of inspiring.
Every green shirted person there is a government employee, a sucker at the public teat - I could take any of them.
Think about it Monsignor, the guy in the front row, the one who drives the truck with the pump to empty the latrines at the base where your sniper teams are quartered – dead on the side of the road from a couple of close range .22’s behind the ear. Now maybe the military dysentery rate goes up a percentage point or two. How are they going to know where to aim their laser guided bombs – I don't think there are target co-ordinates for nobody.
The nice grandmotherly looking lady in the next row? She does payroll data entry till she comes home some evening to find her husband, kids, cats and house burned to the ground – I’m sure all your tank drivers, seal teams, and helicopter pilots do it for the esprit – de – corps, but I also bet they like to get paid. And when they ask who would do such a thing... the answer is nobody.
The young man in the back row, he’s a newlywed and works in food service – here is a picture of his wife with a gun to her head, and if he wants to see her alive all he has to do is not rinse the buffet trays real well - leave a good coating of dish soap on them. Do you know what happens to your digestive tract after a good dosing with GI dish soap? Hell, nobody knows. Those haven't-been-emptied-for-weeks latrines will be getting a work out for certain.
Would they catch the guy responsible? Of course they would – he is old, fat, and slow, has no team to back him up and is not good in the bush. But to do that they would have to take men from the pointy end of the spear to watch out for the people in the back - there are a lot of people in the back and the world if full of nobodies.
Just saying.
Some Guy, You are absolutely right that the mujahadin were able to secure Stingers AAA and other neat stuff from the US and others during the war against the Soviets. As we saw, they used those weapons to great effect. Let's take that one step further and picture a similar scenario in this country. Sure, you can't go down to the local gun shop or gun show and pick up Stingers or RPGs or machine guns, etc. That's a fact. So, we would be revolutionaries would be left with our hunting rifles, and neutered assault rifles, handguns, etc. and we'd be at the mercy of the most heavily armed and best trained fighting force on the planet. But you'd be making a serious mistake if you didn't consider the oath that all of those soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines take to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Once the SHTF how many of those good service men and women would figure out exactly who it is that is really defending said Constitution and would turn about and disobey their illegal orders. Why, some of them might even see fit to help lend a hand, as well as get some of their special ordnance into the hands of the militia. It could happen you know. But, like I said before, we really don't want to go down that road and we should all be working hard to see that we don't. I know that I'd much rather go for a nice hike with my wife and daughter.
SomeGuy, take the words of Sun Tzu and Gen. Giap to heart. "Let your enemy be your logistical support."
Think on that awhile.
If "Monsignor" comes back, I'd like for him to explain his moniker. See sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/
Is this about:
a. Insulting all Catholics?
b. A secret yearning to molest nuns?
c. A desire to be addressed as "my Lord" while he instructs lesser mortals on Borg assimilation?
Which is it?
"Some guy: Paul: The Afghans were given advanced weapons by the US. Do you think the Afghans manufactured Stingers in their caves? It wasn't a war between a professionally trained military and a general population with smalls arms: it was professionals against amateurs with advanced weapons and a modicum of training and a lot of other assistance (sat intel, advanced comms, SAM weapons, etc).
Good luck with that virus thing. It may work in the movies, but in the real world, its just a little bit harder to infect software embedded in ROM with no external network connections and no way to reprogram the device without the use of a screwdriver."
The advanced weapons given to the Afghans consisted mostly of stingers, and little else. We did not commit our advanced communications gear into a conflict where we could risk losing it to the Soviets. In the vein of technology security, we committed those assets we knew the Soviets already had working knowledge of. We committed nothing that was beyond the technology of our enemies (the Soviets) in that conflict.
The difference between the effectiveness of the Stinger (v. other MANPADS) is the refinement of the sensors and software. The basic technology of any IR Heat-seeker/millimeter wave seeker remains the same. Hence, no real loss if a Stinger found its way into the hands of the Soviets. The same applies to the PRC's we committed to that conflict. Stingers can be easily countered, if one has the right countermeasures.
Additionally, the Soviets DID NOT actually lose that many aircraft in the Afghan conflict, either as a ratio to all Soviet service aircraft, or in absolute numbers.
What the Stingers did do was force a change in tactics for the Soviet Air Force and their pilots. Hence, the "advantage" of the Stingers was to render attacks on the Resistance less effective as they occurred at greater (stand-off) distances and were consequently less accurate. In effect, the Stinger made Soviet pilots “gun-shy.”
As for your comments about the virus being ineffective - well, I beg to differ. Did you ever flash a BIOS? Your computer’s BIOS is ROM (actually EEPROM) which is the same kind of firmware that controls almost all our advanced armaments. Those armaments get updated from time to time. Guess where they get updated from? A computer in the maintenance shop that is responsible for that weapons system. Guess who has to do the update? Some maintenance weenie that may, or may not really care about his/her job. (I know, I had to discipline a few) Moreover, 99% of the time that PC is NETWORKED. Even if it is to a “secure” network, it is still vulnerable. That network can be penetrated, and the software packages modified by a trojan or virus. Or, the individual performing the update can introduce the corrupted software at the time of update.
This is a concern to the military. They know about it, but there is little they can do beyond what they have done as our military is heavily networked, and almost totally dependent upon computers to perform even the simplest of tasks (such as an ATO). That is why the PRP is so critical to mission success. There has been a long discussion of such vulnerabilities within the military community.
Additionally, we have advanced to the point where the techies in the military want to be able to do remote updates (saves time, money and manpower) as a “force multiplier,” enabling weapons to be updated with the latest data, even en route to the target. We already do this when the weapons are coupled to the launching platform, but have limited it to targeting data. However, if the targeting data is satellite linked and downloaded just prior to launch, it is possible to “hijack” and corrupt that data as it is fed to the launch platform, and then used to update the weapon. Herein lies the problem: there is no way for the launching platform crew to know if the data has been tampered with until it is too late. You can do CRC checks and handshakes, but they too can be spoofed.
In short, though advanced weaponry gives some advantage, but it can be offset, nullified, or even turned to the advantage of those it is being used against. It is largely a matter of skill and knowledge of how those systems work, what their weaknesses are, and how to exploit them. The biggest weakness being the personnel that produce, transport, maintain, and utilize them. All along that chain, vulnerabilities exist.
Oh, one last thing. The Soviet troops were NOT “professionally trained” they were (and still are) largely conscripts who want to go home in one piece. This is why the American military has performed so well (compared to the rest of the world) - we WANT to be there. We WANT to serve. It makes a huge difference in how well the mission is executed.
Above all, remember this: It’s really hard to “spoof” a bullet.
To those who claim that resistance is futile, consider these facts:
1. Many of us are current and former military. We are very aware of military hardware, capabilities and employment tactics. Plus, we still have our uniforms. Use your imagination.
2. It is the DUTY of a soldier to disobey unlawful orders. Violation of their Constitutional Oath is a prime indicator that the order is unlawful, like infringing on the Right of the People to keep and bear arms.
"Good luck with that virus thing. It may work in the movies, but in the real world, its just a little bit harder to infect software embedded in ROM with no external network connections and no way to reprogram the device without the use of a screwdriver."
Yea, military equipment could never catch a virus! Oh, wait.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/4547649/French-fighter-planes-grounded-by-computer-virus.html
It's nice to see "The ClueBat" applied so well here. Great comments.
Hopefully the teaching will prove sufficient and fall on ears that hear.
Last I remember, all the .gov computers I saw had M$ software on them. This alone should tell you something.
Just to add a little different spin to the weapons procurement problem for the new and improved gun nut revolutionary militia; Los Zetas and the Mexican cartels are getting some pretty fun toys to play with these days. Of course, the MSM seems to think (or spin) that it all comes from the tens of thousands of gun shops and shows along our southern border; full-autos, grenades, RPGs and the like. Class..., what are those folks good at...why, smuggling, of course. The developing world is awash with that kind of stuff. Don't y'all think that there may be more than a few folks out there with questionable scrupples willing to turn a fast buck?
How do you think the IRA (and just about every other group with an axe to grind) got a lot of their stuff. It reminds me of the old joke; "they" could never smuggle a nuclear weapon into this country, security is just too tight. Unless, of course, they hid it in a bale of marijuana. Given a strong demand and supply equation I have little doubt that there wouldn't be plenty of "entrepreneurs" ready, willing and very able to fill the vacuum. Sure, a lot of it will be intercepted...but not all of it. And it needn't take much. What was it again? 4 or 6 guys in Mumbai? Not that the question really matters all that much.
A few RPGs here, a couple of Claymores there...get the picture? How hard do you think it would really be? The stuff doesn't even have to be factory made. Don't forget, Americans have proven themselves to be a rather clever lot. We thrive on a good challenge. The talent for innovation and improvisation is in our DNA.
Imagine for a moment the collective national pant sh....g that a few thoughtfully targeted RPG 7's could create. And that's just for starters.
Twirl some of those notions around your head for awhile. It's not a very nice picture, is it?
Yet again, let's all try real hard not to go down that road. Sweet dreams folks.
O.K. We can’t win. Thanks for your concern.
Let me return the favor.
This is what you good neighbors to our north must one day confront: a bankrupt America collapsing from a crisis of rising expectations brought about through an insupportable expansion of the welfare state. This collapse is even now being deliberately orchestrated from within. The strategy has been tested in NYC during the early 1970s and is being brought forward today at the national level by the enemies of liberal democracy and free-market capitalism.
“The ‘Cloward-Piven Strategy’ seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.” [link deleted]
This manufactured crisis will result in the need to secure vast supplies of natural resources for present consumption as well as for use in manufactured goods. China will soon refuse to accept any more I.O.U.s denominated in rapidly-depreciating dollars for their products. We will have to resume making our own.
Canada will stop sending natural gas, timber and wheat here for the same reason as the Chinese. These natural resources will be critical to US economic production and difficult to replace. The simplest solution is to invade and annex the thinly populated areas of western Canada, with the pretext of securing an overland route for Alaska natural gas.
It would not be the first such invasion of Canada. There was that incident in 1812, you know. Today, of course, you would be defenseless against those same US weapons you enumerated in your screed.
US soldiers would be unlikely to turn their guns on US citizens any time soon, but may succumb to the temptation of plundering our closest ally. After that success, they may be desensitized to perpetrating a few outrages at home.
If the time ever comes that we launch an unprovoked attack against your country, you had better pray to the Father of All Mercies that the militia has not been disarmed and that we will be here for you, shooting the merciless bastards in the back.
Thanks again for worrying about us.
Regards,
Malthus
Monsignor said:"Do you really think you'll be able to stop laser-guided munitions dropped from 20,000-30,000 feet with your legally-acquired weapon?"
Yes. By shooting the politician who ordered that bomb to be dropped.
God, you people are ignorant. Monsignor, you're a little melodramatic and need to read up on your military trivia, but you have the right idea.
I am not a radical Marxist, gun-hating Democrat from Harvard, Steward Rhodes, but all of this redneck propaganda bullshit has got to stop. EVERYONE needs to get over themselves, rednecks and hippies alike.
I love guns. But I don't for a second pretend that they will do me any good if the government has put a price on my head.
Neither should any of you.
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