Foreword: As a follow-up to my recent column on competing concealed carry bills in Iowa, I have invited representatives from state gun rights groups Iowa Gun Owners and Iowa Carry to educate us on their positions. The following response is from Sean McClanahan, President, Iowa Carry:
We’ve had several meetings with Chris Rager, both in person and on the phone. We have a copy of the NRA’s proposed legislation available on our main website. Keep in mind that this is *proposed* legislation. Nothing is set in stone right now, and changes can still be made. In fact, as I send this out to you, we are expecting another revision to be made and available for downloading today. And, since this proposed legislation has not yet been filed, it is not officially a bill.
I pledged the support of Iowa Carry to the NRA. We had our own bill submitted during last year’s session after we determined the Rep. Baudler’s bill did not meet what we were seeking in Shall Issue legislation. Going into 2010, we were ready to keep running with our own bill if necessary. When we were approached by the NRA, we were not sure what we would find when we sat down with them. What we ended up seeing was legislation that would, if passed, finally provide all Iowans with a level playing field when it comes to the requirements and issuance of the Iowa Permit to Carry Weapons. We feel that it represents the best chance at getting into law something that will benefit everyone in Iowa. There are more things at play in Iowa politics than meets the eye of the casual observer. The NRA understands this, and so do we. It is taking this pragmatic “big picture” approach that leads us to the decision that we have made.
In the course of this process, some of you may have seen some of the articles and letters published by IGO, Firearms Coalition, Jeff Knox, and others. These have taken to task the NRA legislation, saying that it doesn’t go far enough toward protecting your rights and gives too many concessions to the government. The answer to these concerns is to pass legislation that would in essence turn Iowa firearms laws into those similar to what is currently found in Alaska or Vermont.
For the record, we fully support efforts to achieve this goal. It would be outstanding if Iowa could become only the third state in the nation to operate under the full authority of the Second Amendment with “shall not be infringed” being taken at its full face value. However, while we believe Alaska carry is an admirable and desirable goal, we also believe that it is not necessarily a reasonable goal right now. Therefore, Iowa Carry’s official position is to continue to fully support the NRA’s proposed legislation, and we will also support the legislation being forwarded by Rep. Sorenson. What we will not do is back away from the NRA legislation simply because it is not a “strict Constitutional” piece of legislation. We have to start somewhere, and Iowa’s citizens deserve better than what we have now. If our citizens cannot get what the citizens of Alaska and Vermont have, then we can at least get what the citizens of 36 other states have. In other words, a balance of what we “could have” and what we “should have”.
Comments
Well, I see a lot of mealy-mouthed marchin' music here, and absolutely nothing about a destination. Didn't even bother to address the specific criticisms of the bill made by its opponents, just "trust us, it's best for you."
It smells like spinach, folks.
Sounds like NRA "compromise speak" to me. This legislation should be the fall back position, the Plan B, IF the Alaska Carry bill does not make it through the legislature. I just hope the NRA stays out the way of VCDL in Virginia. They were more than willing to throw us under the bus when it came to carrying on airport property, in their own backyard.
Ohio went through a similar debate among pro gun groups years ago. We finally passed ccw legislation six/seven years ago that was not ideal, but after no "blood in the streets shootouts" as were predicted by the anti-gun crowd, Ohio has since passed three new bills into law that have loosened up restrictions on ccw, protected ccw holder identities, provide for the castle doctrine, and now there are two new bills that will likely pass next year including restaurant carry (carry in establishments serving alcohol as long a you don't consume.) Were not quite to Alaska's shining example, but every year the anti-gun idiots arguments ring hollow, we gain.
Ohio, from 0 to 169,000 ccw licensees in seven years!
I believe Iowa Carry is taking the best approach to obtain the right bill at the right time for Iowa.
I encourage all to read this proposed legislation at the Legislative Update link on the Iowa Carry website, before you shoot it down. It's a good proposal, and deserves the support of all who desire a fair Shall Issue law in Iowa.
For many years, Iowa Carry is the only organization I have seen that is actively involved in passing a Shall Issue law in Iowa. And with the NRA working with Iowa Carry, during this challenging election year for our Representatives, I see this as having a good chance of passing this time.
Sean -
"The answer to these concerns is to pass legislation that would in essence turn Iowa firearms laws into those similar to what is currently found in Alaska or Vermont."
No, that is the BEST answer, at least for gun owners and RKBA supporters in Iowa. But you have made a "quantum leap" between the rights undermining NRA bill, and the "Vermont style" bill. While I personally prefer that Iowa come to the 21st century and recognize the second amendment for what it is, i.e. a right to keep AND BEAR arms (with IGO's legislation), if Iowa is to be stuck with a "permission system," at least let it be void of such things as 30-day waiting periods, inclusion of the federal anti-gun Lautenberg laws (which are thankfully being undermined in the courts even now), due process violations, misdemenor crimes for drinking an undefined amount of alcohol and carrying, etc, etc. Sean - please: either tell the NRA you won't support their bill if they won't clean up their act, or just dump them.
Dann -
Did/does your Ohio law drag Frank Lautenberg's anti-gun federal legislation into your state? The NRA bill does that here. It stinks. Iowa Carry needs to stand up to the NRA and at least tell them to give gun owners in Iowa a bill void of these anti-gun laws. The 7th circuit court of appeals recently vacated a Wisconsin man's conviction under Lautenberg, indicating that it may very well violate his second amendment rights (which it does). We don't need such laws in Iowa . . . leave them to the feds and hopefully, they will be destroyed there.
SS
"What we will not do is back away from the NRA legislation simply because it is not a “strict Constitutional” piece of legislation."
Thank goodness the founding fathers didn't think this way . . . right now we'd be talking with a cockney twang and sending our entire paychecks to England. Oh . . . and we wouldn't have any guns at all . . . I mean really . . . why on earth should we support the Constitution . . . sheesh!
SS
SS
I believe Iowa Carry is taking the best approach to obtain the right bill at the right time for Iowa.
I encourage all to read this proposed legislation at the Legislative Update link on the Iowa Carry website, before you shoot it down. It's a good proposal, and deserves the support of all who desire a fair Shall Issue law in Iowa.
For many years, Iowa Carry is the only organization I have seen that is actively involved in passing a Shall Issue law in Iowa. And with the NRA working with Iowa Carry, during this challenging election year for our Representatives, I see this as having a good chance of passing this time.
(Sorry for the duplicate post earlier.)
As for the proposed Bill on the Iowa Carry web site, it provides for:
-Shall Issue
-Appeals Process
-Reciprocity
-Standard Training
-Confidential Records
-5-year $10 permit, $5 renewals
There are some very big steps forward here. Yes, later on some improvements to Iowa's laws will be needed, including a State Constitutional Amendment to protect our right to Keep and Bear Arms.
It will be almost impossible for Iowa to get an Alaska or Vermont type carry law, unless we have a "2nd Amendment" equivalent in Iowa first.
I think it's important to remember that those of us who support the 2nd Amendment can push for positive changes using Different approaches, Without attacking each other. There are enough Anti-2nd Amendment folks out there attacking us already.
I'm not sure which specific Lautenburg legislation you refer to as there have been so many anti-gun proposals from him and I have not read the specific Iowa bills. Criminal conviction does not automatically rule out ccw in Ohio unless it's a felony and or misdemeanor for drugs, resisting arrest, assaulting police office etc., but under Ohio's first offense forgiveness law, now if the court expunges your record you can get a ccw license (some additional details to this) - recently passed in new legislation. The county sheriff can suspend your license due to conviction or pending charges like domestic violence. There is no defacto registration and the required training allows you to carry any handgun, not just the one you trained/qualified with. We also now have state-wide preemption passed a couple of years ago, no more assault-weapons ban.
Again, we did not get what we wanted 6-7 years ago, but Alaska/Vermont style would not have passed back then.
Also, we have an appeals process if denied and sheriff has to notify in writing why denied otherwise we are shall issue within 45 days of application. Ohio AG is required to enter into reciprocity with state that have similar legal requirements for ccw like background check and training - like several other states.
Also, Ohio's constitution states, "The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be kept up; and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power."
Dann, You are so right. I would love to see Alaska/Vermont style carry in Iowa. But it's not going to happen anytime soon. It took Missouri 10 or 12 years to get shall issue. Iowa Carry has been after this for 5 years. Let's get shall issue and go from there. We also need castle doctrine, hopefully this year or next. I wish IGO good luck with their bill. I would love to see it pass. But the realist in me doesn't see it happening this year. I've looked at the NRA bill and while there are some things I'm less that thrilled with, it's still better what we have now.
"I've looked at the NRA bill and while there are some things I'm less that thrilled with, it's still better what we have now."
I believe that if IC and the NRA continue to push this very bad legislation while "blowing off" the concerns of a significant number of gun owners in Iowa, they will see opposition from the right and the left. So how likely is THAT to pass? . . . not very.
SS
Insulting comment that does not contribute to the discussion deleted.
I also deleted one from the "other side" on the IGO column.
no4gman says:
"As for the proposed Bill on the Iowa Carry web site, it provides for:"
"-Shall Issue:" Here is the bowl of pottage we shall give away our inheritance for
“-Appeals Process:” Judicial review exists in Iowa law today; there are people in Iowa courts as we speak that are appealing the failure of the sheriff to issue a permit.
“-Reciprocity:” Not really . . . it only says “the secretary of state MAY enter into reciprocity agreements”. . if they don’t have to, they won’t; this is NO different than today.
“-Standard Training:” Who cares? Today, some sheriff’s don’t even require training; the ones that do put on pretty good courses. This is no improvement over today.
“-Confidential Records:” Once again, BIG DEAL! Who cares if they publish the names of CCW holders . . that way, no one is going to attack you or break into your home. And the libtards will soon tired of this.
Considering all the un-Constitutional provisions, this is a GIANT step backwards.
Why take 6 to 7 years to get only partway to the desired result, when it might be done in two? Iowa has elections coming up next year. Iowa is not Ohio,nor NY, nor Ca. They have actually been known to diselect people who don't represent them properly. So, if the NRA and IC really wants to help they need to push IGO's legislation this year,in order to identify and defeat at the polls those legislators who vote against Iowans rights. Then push the second year for the legislation with a friendlier legislature in Des Moines.
If NRA and IC are willing to wait 6 to 7 years for partial satisfaction, let them wait this year and next, still leaves them up to five years to beg for their rights, but it will be begged from the same unfriendly legislature who defeated our rights the first time.
Get out of the way and if you don't want to help and let those legislators be put on the spot and possibly replaced with better.
straightarrow says:
"Why take 6 to 7 years to get only partway to the desired result, when it might be done in two?"
Iowa Carry has been at it longer than that, ~ 5 years +, and have made NO progress. Most of the bills they submitted were through Rep/NRA Board Member Clel Baudler, who steadfastly refused to back "Shall Issue" legislation. His excuse was that they "couldn't get anything better through the House;" I believe he just doesn't support this legislation. IC "parted ways" with him last year. The latest IC boondoggle contained the provision that you can get a written explanation from the sheriff if they turn you down. This was being pushed at a time the feds were passing the "Veterans Disarmament Act" that says if some government official says in writing you are a danger, you can't own guns. So how much of a step is it from requiring sheriffs to tell publically why you can't be trusted with a permit, to saying you can't own guns under federal law because of this letter?
The point being that these guys from Iowa Carry keep telling everyone that "they know how the process works" and "we know how to get the law changed and you don't." But their actions, i.e. proposing this "letter" from the sheriff that could cost you your firearms rights altogether, don't seem to display a very keen sense of the gun laws in the U.S. I for one, don't want people like that who may unwittingly cause more harm then good trying to propose laws in Iowa.
And IC keeps telling us that people need to accept the rights deprivations in the NRA bill, "because we know that is what we can get passed."
Sorry . . . but no thanks!
Looks to me like yall got a choice. Get together and find those who do not vote and are on your side otherwise. Get those votes going and you can fire those rebelling employees and look at the ones left and tell them you could be next. namby pamby crap and a lot of hot air will get you nowhere. We are everywhere beset with criminals who would take away our freedoms. POLITICAL correctness is pure bull honkey. We must stand up for our rights and do it now!
We have 4 basic rights that are given us by God and nature. They are enumerated in the Constitution of the United States. They are, LIFE (from conception until nature or accident ends it. Anything else is murder and the penalty for that is death.), LIBERTY (Freedom to live where we wish, believe what we wish, do what we wish, go where we wish, say what we wish so long as we do not interfere with the rights of others.), THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS (to dream and follow that dream so long as tha dream does not interfere with the rights of others.), The right to defend ones self, ones loved ones, ones property, ones liberty, pnes dreams, and any other person and theirs who are unable to defend themselves. This also extends to the aid of another in defending his rights. These are rights inherant on gods realm and in nature. This from an old sheepdog who loves his sheep. google On Sheep, Wolves,and Sheep Dogs by David Grossman for understanding.
For ammunition to fight the Ideas spouted by anti-gun nuts, the media and brainwashed parrots, Google Gun Facts 5.0. It is a pdf and contains nearly 100 pages of indisputeable fact about guns and their use. It will blow up all of the anti-gun bs because it is well documented with undisputeable fact. It is free, download it, print it, pass it on to others give it as a
christmas gift. It is copy writed but you may use it any way you wish so long as you do not sell it. GOD Bless YOU All. Love!
Let's please keep the discussion focused on the Iowa concealed carry bills. Thanks.
I'm disappointed in the lack of constructive discussion around the proposed Iowa Carry Bill.
I have yet to read a rational view opposing these key points in the proposal:
-Shall Issue
-Appeals Process
-Reciprocity
-Standard Training
-Confidential Records
-5-year $10 permit, $5 renewals
I would hope that those who truly support the 2nd Amendment and Shall Issue in Iowa, would offer some constructive advise regarding the Iowa Carry proposal or detail your own proposal, rather then launching an attack on Iowa Carry.
If the supporters of Shall Issue merely attack each other, then that hurts our cause.
Those who support Alaska carry, I encourage you to go for it, but at the same time do you really have to trash the ideas of others instead of promoting your own view in a rational way? If your idea is the brightest, then surely it will outshine the rest, without your having to resort to mudslinging.
When I mentioned our experience over the last 6-7 years after passing a less than ideal law here in Ohio which has ben greatly improved upon (we have defacto unlicensed open carry - just not in a vehicle), I should have mentioned our 12+ year battle prior to that to get the first law passed.
I have since perused several Iowa gun-rights web sites and some Iowa government-related web sites and newspaper archives. I personally prefer Vermont style (Bills for VT style were introduced on several occasions over the last 24 years in Ohio and went nowhere.), but I don't see the Iowa political climate anywhere near what would be required to pass VT style in your state unless you get about 1,000,000 Texans to move into Iowa.
no4gman says:
"I'm disappointed in the lack of constructive discussion around the proposed Iowa Carry Bill"
Your points HAVE been addressed:
"Shall Issue:" It is in there, if you overlook the many ways the sheriff can deny it or take it away
“Appeals Process:” Judicial review exists in Iowa today; there are people in Iowa courts now that are appealing the failure of a sheriff to issue permits
“Reciprocity:” Not really in the bill; it only says “the secretary of state MAY enter into reciprocity agreements;” if they don’t have to, they won’t; this is NO different than today.
“Standard Training:” Today, some sheriff’s don’t even require training; the ones that do put on pretty good courses. Training is Ok, but having the government mandate it is stupid
“Confidential Records:” BIG DEAL! Who cares if they publish names of CCW's. Libtards will tire of this anyway
As before, considering the un-Constitutional provisions in the bill, this is a GIANT step backwards
Dann says:
"I don't see the Iowa political climate anywhere near what would be required to pass VT style in your state . . . "
You couldn't be more wrong Dann. Iowa Democrats are going to face the "teaparty backlash" that Democrats are going to face everywhere in 2010. The last thing they want right now is to be branded "anti-gun."
If the NRA/Iowa Carry gives them a "slow easy pitch over home plate," instead of pushing them for real reform, as in the VT style bill, then they will vote for the watered down bill, and get a free pass. The NRA/Iowa Carry is handing the anti-gun folk in the Iowa legislature exactly what they want: A way to vote "pro-gun" (not in reality) to save their butts next year. This is exactly why Jeff Knox was right about this bill: it is snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
The political climate in Iowa has never been better to pass solid, pro-gun legislation since 1994; the time to strike with a hot iron is now with the Vermont style bill.
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