Ken Pagano (AP Photo/Aaron Borton, The Courier-Journal)
You'd think as a Gun Rights Examiner, I'd be all in favor of an invitation by a Kentucky pastor to have people bring their guns to church. After all, we've seen from recent news that people intent on using guns to commit violence will bring them where they want. Likewise, we've seen that arms in moral private hands are literally lifesavers.
So why might I have anything negative to say about New Bethel Church in Valley Station pastor Ken Pagano "encouraging people to bring their guns to church on June 27"? And why might I be unimpressed by his assertion that "This is for anybody that believes in second amendment rights. And that is the buttress to first amendment rights"?
Am I taking the side of Rev. James Tennyson of the Justice Resource Center, who has "gotten at least 300 guns off the streets through their gun buyback program" when he says "We are going back to the wild, wild west"?
No, of course not. I've made my position on so-called "buybacks" more than clear, and the "wild west" canard simply and demonstrably has been discredited so thoroughly that only the ignorant or closed-minded zealots would even bring it up.
So what's my beef? This:
People can come into the church wearing their gun as long as the weapon is unloaded and in a secure holster.
And this:
According to Pagano, a local police officer will provide security at the open carry celebration...
The idea that police are the "only ones" who can be entrusted with loaded firearms should be offensive to everyone who believes in the right of the people to keep and bear arms. And while I get the symbolism and perception Pastor Pagano is trying to convey, I challenge the notion that encouraging deference to and reliance on official elitism--along with actual defenselessness-- is an effective or desirable way to "promote responsible gun ownership and gun safety."
Also see: "Bring your gun to church day" by Denver Gun Rights Examiner Dan Bidstrup.
Check out other Gun Rights Examiners:
- Atlanta: An Atlanta police officer supports the right to bear arms
- Austin: Justifying deadly force (Part 3)
- Boston: The enslavement of a nation; on our way toward bondage
- Charlotte: Armed self-defense: Beyond the basics
- Cleveland:
Public interest in gun rights continues to rise
- DC: Virginia gun owners should crash the party on June 9th
- Denver: Bring your gun to church day
- Los Angeles: Abortion Doctor's killer was Militia?
- Minneapolis: Giving Judge Sotomayor a fair hearing
- Seattle: A tale of two hunting deaths; a disparity in public reaction
- St. Louis: The Tiller murder, and the fragility of liberty
- Wisconsin: Gun rights advocates make progress
Comments
I agree that this notion of leaving your personal defense to the "only one's" is nonsense.
....and to think that someone who claims to be in support of the second amendment would advocate people carry unloaded guns is preposterous! It is the height of foolishness to carry an unloaded gun on your hip. A terrible habit to get into. For one day you will reach for it in a moment of need and the damn thing will be unloaded.
I would simply do as I normally do every Sunday. Carry my loaded .380. 8) It is in my pocket 24/7 unless I walk in a court house or post office, or I'm running a polling place that day.
Thanks for keeping us informed, David.
David,
I had mixed feelings about this one as well.
The invitation to celebrate the 2nd Amendment I can appreciate.
However, the idea of ensuring the firearms would not be loaded and so certified by "only ones" then that information posted for all to read is almost an invitation for a criminal shooter to attend a "gun free" shooting gallery.
The road to warmer climes is paved with ..."
Yeah, David, I was deeply bothered by that element of this pastor's no doubt earnest attempt to help out. It does occur to me that perhaps engagement and education might be worthwhile in this instance.
As a simple example, in order to enforce the restrictions that he has announced, the rent-a-cop is going to have to inspect each firearm. In a lot of cases, verifying the "unloaded" status is going to require administrative handling. By a police officer quite probably unfamiliar with the firearm in question. That is an invitation to disaster just on the basis of safety. And that's only the first of my practical concerns about what he's doing, and far less important than the philosophical objections I have to what the pastor is doing.
Wait a minute guys, lets back up here and take another look at this. It's baby steps... how many other pastor's have you seen even come out with any other positive action to the RKBA.
So today, it's an informational event with unloaded weapons, tomorrow it could be a full blown Open Carry. Who knows.
Some additional info I dug up while trying to find an email address to contact the pastor - mainly an article in the Louiseville Courier-Journal (which I'd link but I am not allowed to... grumble)
www.courier-journal.com/article/20090603/ZONE08/90603050/
Apparently Ken Pagano is also a police chaplain, which explains a lot of his attitude. And probably makes trying to educate him a lost cause. There is a LOT more coverage of this event out there than I realized, too. Some positive memes will be released into the wild by this, but I really do wish the "mother, may I" aspects were not being so heavily emphasized.
Lthernck: while I have not seen a pastor do an event like this before, I have been shooting with more than one.
In my family, as well as several others in my neck o' the woods, weddings are usually western themed affairs. Complete with six guns openly strapped on to go with the western style tuxes, though out of courtesy not in the chapel itself. The one time anyone made disapproving noises about it, it was the pastor who spoke up and explained how important it was to exercise our "god given 2d Amendment rights". My kid sister has never quite forgiven Dad for following her carriage down mainstreet riding his mule and carrying a double-barrel - though I think what she was REALLY mad about was that he called the paper and got a photographer out to record the "shotgun wedding" photo. Front page.
So while I agree that this event is a good step, & I even concede that we may well get some good press out of it, I still dislike the distrust of his congregation displayed by this pastor
I can understand what your saying Hunter, but maybe that's the only way the pastor could get the firearms in the church approved thru the church council, not sure just a thought.
Again it's a baby step, this time unloaded, next time who knows..
In a CNN interview with Pagano, he said unloaded because of insurance concerns. I'm sorry he trusts his congregation to be safe and responsible less than he trusts the police. I agree, carry loaded AND CONCEALED and no one will know or care.
I'd like to commend CNN anchor Kyra Phillips, who was very supportive of Pagano's politicial statement that not all Christians are gun-hating pacifists and that each of us is responsible for his own self-defense. THAT was refreshing, coming from a major media outlet.
(laugh) Well, I am certainly not one to insist that the perfect must be the enemy of the good. Just keep those reservations in mind. If anyone can establish contact with Pastor Pagano a dialog may well be quite productive. I've so far had no luck finding an email for him, and truth to tell I am probably not a good candidate to talk to him anyway.
Glad to hear he's getting some favorable press - my take on it is that he's a good man, as you note perhaps laboring under handicaps we're unaware of. I hope his event comes off well, and in some form is emulated by other churches.
I've reluctantly come to the concluson over the years that the pro-rights movement's emphasis on CCW was politically a mistake. Tactically it makes perfect sense, but we should have simultaneously pushed hard to demystify guns and dispel some of the more egregious claims of the hoplophobes with more emphasis on open carry and public events. We're the good guys, damnit, & should not have to justify our views
Unloaded. That's stupid. But a police officer? This country is in deep trouble. Evidently we think the government is the source of milk and honey, safety and security. Things are going to get ugly.
Zach said: "Evidently we think the government is the source of milk and honey, safety and security."
Robert Heinlein said: "At least once, every human being should have to run for his life, to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people."
Well like I said, that's one small step for OC/CC. It may not be totally what we want but its better then being told you can't do that in a church.
So this pastor thinks that at most only one loaded gun would be at this service?
Concealed carry is just that - the loaded gun is concealed. What the pastor cannot see will not hurt him. If you choose to carry a decoy cased unloaded weapon also, then go ahead. Better yet, carry a locked case with a rock in it for weight.
Exactly, David! If they need a cop to oversee the event, the point is moot.
A pastor that doesn't trust his flock? Maybe "flock" is a better description than he thinks.
its an invitation to disaster to carry an unconcealed, unloaded firearm!
the "only ones" legacy continues...
Why even waste the time to carry a useless unloaded gun? So you just throw the empty gun like they did on the old Superman series?
So how many more people are now aware you can OC even if there guns are unloaded this time.
Next time can be different.
Glad you extracted those quotes out for us to see.
As always, good article.
Wait till some hobgoblin attacks them and they have unloaded guns
Bear in mind, the gun is still unloaded if the full magazine is in your pocket or in a mag carrier. Having to load after you draw makes access to a functional firearm slower, granted, but it's better than not carrying at all.
You can please part of the people part of the time but you cannot please all the people any of the time.
Pretty tough situation to carry off in a church but the pastor made his point. And thats ok. So give credit where credit is due.
Quite honestly I carry concealed and loaded and I am a christian. What others don't know does not hurt them or me. So far so good I have not had to use my gun in church or out and thats just fine also. So believe what you want, just keep it to yourself. When you walk a mile in the pastors shoes then you have a better right to judge.
Just curious...but before you guys start trashing the guy. Did anyone check Kentucky's laws?
The unloaded open-carry might be a legal means of carry. For those who might not have a CCW permit. It might also be the only legal way to open carry in Kentucky.
I could be completely wrong. But I want to know those facts before I trashed someone who I think is doing something positive.
I think we need to stop expecting perfection from everyone. We need to stop eating and devouring each other. Build up and not tear down. IMHO
I think what this pastor is doing is a great thing. Maybe not perfectly implemented. But a positive none-the-less.
Of course, NUGUN. Per OpenCarry.org:
"Kentucky is one of our 'Gold Star' open carry states. There is complete state preemption of all firearms laws, open carry is constitutionally protected with court precedent and law enforcement is aware of its legality."
That said, you need to learn the difference between disagreeing with actions and "eating and devouring our own."
Your admonition for harmony notwithstanding, that attitude is guaranteed to drive a wedge between you and those of us who believe dissent is appropriate, necessary, healthy.
No ad hominem against the pastor was made here. And I'm not going to stand by while you misrepresent this as "trashing someone" instead of disagreeing with them.
Got something to say?
Examiner.com is looking for writers, photographers, and videographers to join the fastest growing group of local insiders. If you are interested in growing your online rep apply to be an Examiner today!