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We've been following the Texas Gun Shows story out of Austin (see "Related Articles" link). Attorney Paul Velte has sent out an email to his Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights list that's being circulated among gun owners regarding his investigation into the matter. It's based on his "review of the law and speaking to the promoter and an individual that had his private collection confiscated Saturday."
Some of the highlights:
On Tuesday APD attempted to deflect public attention by implying that multiple arrests at the location gave the city grounds to prosecute the landlords for nuisance. I am attaching a copy of the nuisance statutes* to this email and as anyone who can read can see--they clearly do not apply here. But what is really ridiculous about such a claim is that if arrests alone constitute grounds for nuisance, then every mall and HEB in the state would be nuisances since arrests for shoplifting occur at these locations constantly.
...The individual who was hassled and had his half dozen firearms seized Saturday was a private citizen there to sell his collection. According to him, APD and/or ATF had a man approach him and offer to buy a gun; the man displayed a Texas Driver's License to prove he was over 21. The sale was made and later APD officers roughly grabbed the shirt of the seller and marched him outside and accused him of selling to an illegal alien. This apparently is the latest tactic to entrap the unwary citizen in the ATF's snare. As if anyone could possibly know the immigration or citizenship status of anyone else. Yet ATF seized all his firearms and told him the matter was "under investigation."
Click here to read Mr. Velte's entire email.
* Attachments to email:
Gun show owner, police at odds over recommendations
Texas Statutes/CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE, TITLE 6. MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS, CHAPTER 125. COMMON AND PUBLIC NUISANCES, SUBCHAPTER A. SUIT TO ABATE CERTAIN COMMON NUISANCES (click):
§ 125.001 CIV. PRAC. & REM. Definitions
§ 125.002 CIV. PRAC. & REM. Suit to Abate Common Nuisance? Bond
§ 125.003 CIV. PRAC. & REM. Suit on Bond
§ 125.004 CIV. PRAC. & REM. Evidence
§ 125.0015 CIV. PRAC. & REM. Common Nuisance
and CHAPTER 128. LIMITATION ON SUITS AGAINST FIREARMS OR AMMUNITION MANUFACTURER, TRADE ASSOCIATION, OR SELLER (click)
§ 128.001 CIV. PRAC. & REM. Limitation on Right to Bring Suit or Recover Damages
Comments
Cops seemingly enjoy twisting the laws and the government lawyers go along with this all the time. Here in Boise Idaho if a punk kid over 18 years old tries to shoplift a ten dollar t-shirt and is caught he will be charged with Felony Burglary. And yes, the kid will get a worthless public defender who will cut him a deal for three years in prison with one year fixed.
Doesn't everyone feel safer with these people protecting us?
Sadly, it is becoming more apparent to me that there are law-enforcement officers disguised as Peace Officers that are consumed with the fact that every citizen is a felon who hasn't been caught yet. In their minds it is only a 'matter of time' before everyone is guilty of something.
Between laws, ordinances, private property rights and administrative rules the idea that a law-abiding citizen knows what is under each shell is becoming mind-numbing. How can we get back to a simplified governance so that every knows what the rules are?
This entire affair appears to be a setup whereby the APD and BATFU coerced HEB into forcing the Gun Show promoter into instituting rules that are not supported by any stretch of the imagination by either state or federal law. Admittedly, I am not as familiar with the use of the federal computer system for background/crimnal history checks as I am with Texas laws regulating the samew activity. In Texas, it is a criminal violation for a private citizen to obtain criminal history via NCIC/TCIC or to have a lawenforcement agency or anyone else who might have permitted access to the information obtain the information. (? “Strawman” information gathering?) By Texas law a local police officer can’t even legally run a drivers license history for a private citizen. Apparently, it is legal, and required, for a FFL to contact the system before selling a firearm.
to be continued:
Continued:
However just how legal is it for the same FFL to do a “strawman” information check for a private citizen when the FFL is not actually selling the firearm and has no interest in the sale? Just asking – Does anyone have any answers?
[W-III]
WWW,
I expect that the BATFE want the firearm in question to be logged into the FFL's "bound book" and transferred on a 4473. The concern that you have raised gives them a stick with which to force that.
Gregg,
I suspect you're absolutely right, but how is the FFL going to justify, several years down the line, a transfer documented in his "bound book" and transferred on a 4473 for a firearm he never actually had in his inventory or possession?
Is the rookie BATFU JBT going to be interested in hearing a story about how some other BATFU in the distant past insisted upon stepping outside his authority and coercing the FFL to falsify documents? My SWAG tells me that the rookie is going to tell the FFL, "Sorry, you should have known better." Goodbye federal license and livelihood.
[W-III]
In the state of Texas, you must have supporting documentation to acquire a Texas Driver's License.
All original applicants for a Texas driver license or identification certificate must present proof of identity satisfactory to the department. (All applicants for a driver license must also provide proof of their social security number). All documents must be verifiable by the source that issued the document.
There are three categories of documents that may be presented to establish proof of identity.
Every original applicant must present:
* one piece of primary identification; or
* one piece of secondary identification plus two pieces of support identification; or
* two pieces of secondary identification.
This is from the DOS website. If you have a verifiable social security number, you are not and illegal alien! This is preposterous!
"how is the FFL going to justify, several years down the line, a transfer documented in his "bound book" and transferred on a 4473 for a firearm he never actually had in his inventory or possession?"
You misunderstand the comment. The feds don't want the FFL to keep records of guns he never sold; they want all guns to be sold only by FFLs.
i hope the file suit and an injunction against the tyrants in the govt
When an officer pulls you over and you are carrying concealed and he, for whatever reason finds out, asks if you have your permit on you and you fail to present it, then he can arrest you under 'prima facie' evidence that you do not have the correct permit. Even if you do.
I believe this guys' defense should be about 'on the face of it/prima facie' evidence that a legal resident/citizen of Texas, which is part of the United States, asked to purchase a weapon. I don't know what other documentation would be required for a private citizen to ask for? Sounds like even if he did a 4473 on the purchase it probably would have come back clean. If I am the defense lawyer, I would ask for that Texas DL and then run a 4473 background check and see what the system says.
Perhaps I am missing something, but it seems to me that Texas Gun Shows was in the position to have prevented this whole affair. Why did they agree to terms that, on the surface, violate the legal rights of law abiding citizens? Why should I ever attend another gun show that TGS is promoting?
In fact, I intend to determine if similar rules are in effect at every gun show that I attend...from now on. I refuse to give my money to organizations that aid and abet illegal suppression of citizen rights.
If my comments are read by gun show promoters...take note.
Texas Patriot, you're right. Darwin Boedecker, called into a meeting with APD and ATF two days before the event, could have said "no". Then the property owners/managers would have canceled his show. Meaning his investment and the investment and livelihoods of dealers/exhibitors depending on the show would have taken a big hit. So instead he chose to let the show go on, post the conditions, and begin the process of publicizing what happened to see if anybody cared and if so, would they care enough to help? It is now within your right to say he should have taken an immediate hard stance for liberty and because he didn't, you will boycott him. I just wonder how many who condemn him because they perceive the choice he made under pressure was wrong are as quick to make similar sacrifices for the cause with their livelihoods. I every day observe gun owner apathy and inaction are the norm, and casting the first stone is also common place. Not sayin' you, just sayin'.
Both the ATF and Austin PD do not have statutory authority (Title 8 of United States Code) to determine alienage either. Only immigration officers and FBI agents can do that. How many illegal aliens does ATF and Austin PD turn over to the Border Patrol? Also, nearly all illegal aliens stopped for not having a driver's license or expired registration are let go by the police. Austin PD is not exception. This smells fishy to say the least.
When we reward, with our money, a gun-show promoter that will assist the destruction of our rights, he has no incentive to change. If people never stand up for Liberty because it might cost them some money, we will never regain Liberty. Our founding fathers risked life, Liberty and property to create for us this country. And yes, I've lost a decent amount of money on a stance for Liberty.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda! APD and the BATFUs blindsided Boedecker with their “recommendations”. It appears to me that he did what he felt he had to do to keep bread on the table and I challenge any man’s veracity who would say he’s never backed down from some authority figure in his entire life. Maybe Boedecker could have done something different, but he was the man under the gun and none of us were there with him when the SHTF and we don’t pay his bills or feed his family. My guess is that Boedecker is second guessing himself enough without help from a bunch of belligerent armchair quarterbacks.
[W-III]
David this Texas Gun Show issue and the way the NRA and some alleged pro-gunners are approaching this issue is outrageous.
The owner of the TGS was coerced to accept the conditions of the BATF/APD or close the show 2 days before the show was to take place.
The advertising had already been sent out. Out of state sellers were already in route or in town.
I believe the action of the NRA signals a compromise by the NRA for a future ban on private sales at gun shows.
Breaking news:
Governor Perry has been confronted on the issue and he’s saying that TGS should get another venue and if the BATF/APD does it again the ATF/APD are guilty of harassment
While I am not familiar with this case other than what has been printed here it would appear that neither the APD or BATF expect to win this case and eventually they will drag it out until it has no more intimidation value and then let it drop. The sad part is that it will be a waste of tax payer money by two agencies whose real agenda is intimidation and not conviction since they never had a chance as long as the defendent keeps claiming innocence. They want to intimidate and bully people into avoiding the gun shows. They want to generate as much bad public relations as they can for gun shows to force them out of business. The insulting part is we as taxpayers are paying for it. We pay for these bully agents and we pay for the wasted legal time they spend. The defendents go broke trying to defend themselves and thus that scares others away when nothing illegal was done. When will people wake up and start drowning Obama and their representives in daily e-mails protesting this behavior?
WIII, I resent your statement,
" .... I challenge any man’s veracity who would say he’s never backed down from some authority figure in his entire life. "
I have never backed down when I was right. Not once. It has cost me dearly on several occassions, but the only thing I am ashamed of when I shave in the mirror is my ugly mug, I sure as Hell am
not ashamed of the man behind it.
Once they find the handle by which to manipulate you, they have no reason to not do it again and again, because they have discovered your price. Any man who does not know this has either led a very sheltered life or is extremely morally stunted.
I suppose, I have a price, but nobody has ever met it. My price for accepting abuse is the death of the abusers. Really simple. I have lost on occassion, but I have never accepted loss without the fight. If you have, then your mileage may vary from mine, but I do resent the assumption on your part that those of us who fight back lie about it
Having said the previous, I don't have a great deal of heartburn with TGS, simply because he may have a different take on what is best for his family. He may think his major responsibility is to protect them from financial ruin. I agree that that is a noble sentiment. Where I diverge, is that I think it more important to leave my family a country steeped in the traditions of liberty if it be in my power to do so. I promise you he does not value his family more than I do mine. We seem to disagree on which duty to them is more important.
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