The Houston Chronicle is reporting that "a small change in concealed handgun laws has created safety concerns among Houston police officers who work the streets."
The change is that "the new law removes the penalty for failing to show a police officer a concealed handgun license (CHL) when stopped by an officer who asks for identification." Before the change, anyone who failed to notify a police officer they had a CHL could lose their license for a year.
Houston police sergeant J.A. Calley feels the notification requirement was important because it helped reduce stress on an officer during a traffic stop to be informed at the beginning of the stop that the person stopped had a CHL, though the only incident of wrongdoing by a CHL holder that could be shown was of someone who they knew had one.
Proponents of the new legislation argue that the penalty was too severe. Ohio has a similar provision in our law, and several people have ended up in court over it. In one case, a man claimed he did notify but the police didn't hear him because they were yelling orders. In another, a man was charged for taking 51 seconds to notify, which the police felt wasn't prompt enough though a judge later disagreed.
Several Ohio concealed handgun license holders have reported being subject to traffic stops where the officer was immediately giving orders and not allowing the person to get a word in edgewise. Verbal judo can be very effective in interrupting the thought process of an eager to comply citizen.
In Texas, like many other states, notification of CHL status is now voluntary. Most of the time during a traffic stop officers will know anyway since it will come up when the driver's license plate is run through the computer. Ohioans For Concealed Carry has asked the Ohio legislature to remove the notification requirement from Ohio's law as well. To many good people have faced stiff penalties for a mistake made under stress which harmed no one.
Comments
Seems reasonable to require that one notify the officer if he's packing. It's a bit (a hell of a lot) too much to let hiim know he has a piece of gummint paper. Does that also imply that John Doe has to carry the permit even if he left the piece at home. Gimme a break!
I'd be a lot more concerned about those people who are stopped, who have weapons with the intent to do harm. CCW holders are law-abiding citizens. Obviously the "bad guys" don't care whether or not they obey the laws - hence the reason they are called CRIMINALS! It isn't likely the criminals are going to admit they have guns in the vehicle. Some people become too obsessed with "power" and being in "control".
The police have every reason to be concerned about pulling over a CCW holder. They know the truth, that armed CCW holders are just as dangerous as anyone else. Anyone who takes the time to find the real statistics (not pro-gun propaganda) know this as well. It sounds like you are saying the way to make an honest citizen out of a criminal is to give them a gun and a CCW.
My my Alex, you better read up on obtaining a CCW. Criminals can't obtain them. They can't pass the Federal, State, and local background checks. The same checks the police have to pass when applying for a job in law enforcement. People who have a CCW are least likely to break the law. Officers know if a driver has a CCW before getting out of their cars. They are trained to assume all drivers stopped are armed. Hence they always have their hand on their guns when approaching a vehicle.
OMG are you guys reading the article? So is it fair to go to jail because it took you a minute to tell the officer that you were a CCW? Is it fair that because the officer did not let you get a word edgewise, all of a sudden you have to go to jail? More to the point is your life set a lower value than a police officer? Police do face criminals but criminals are not looking to face the police they are looking to face you? The world is not Shangri La. Why do you ppl not face the facts that there a ppl out there out to wreck the world and you just might run into them?
I'm sure the couple in Florida were oblivious to the fact that they were ppl actually training to break into their house? Training for gods sake. Arguments like that make it seem as if rights advocates are making this stuff up. The point here is that it might give an officer stress. Hey lets close down the internet, that way the government does not have to worry about ppl using it in criminal endeavors. Oh wait..
OMG are you guys reading the article? So is it fair to go to jail because it took you a minute to tell the officer that you were a CCW? Is it fair that because the officer did not let you get a word edgewise, all of a sudden you have to go to jail? More to the point is your life set a lower value than a police officer? Police do face criminals but criminals are not looking to face the police they are looking to face you? The world is not Shangri La. Why do you ppl not face the facts that there a ppl out there out to wreck the world and you just might run into them?
I'm sure the couple in Florida were oblivious to the fact that they were ppl actually training to break into their house? Training for gods sake. Arguments like that make it seem as if rights advocates are making this stuff up. The point here is that it might give an officer stress. Hey lets close down the internet, that way the government does not have to worry about ppl using it in criminal endeavors. Oh wait..
OK Alex, do you consider the Texas DPS a pro-gun entity and their stats progaganda? How about the FBI or the dozens of other state based law enforcement agencies that maintain and report such records? Don't take my word for ti, look for your self, most of it is even available online for your convenience, and in every case it shows that CHL holders across the nation, as a population group, are by far more law abiding than the general population, equaling, and even surpassing in many cases, that law enforcement officers as a population group.
Alex: You are so wrong on your point of CCW permittees being lawbreakers and the "pro-gun propaganda" you think we qoute. How about the Texas Department of Public Safety? Is this a pro-gun propaganda machine? Go to their website and look up how many CCW permittees are involved in crime, ANY crime! Less than 1% buddy. Gun crime is way less than that. Get your facts straight before you spout off and make yourself look foolish and just like another sheep quoting the anti-gun leftist drivel.
The horror!
In a previous session of the Texas legislature, 'traveling' was defined. Well, sort of. Previously the law stated that a person could carry a pistol while traveling. But 'traveling was not well defined. Now a person my carry a pistol in their vehicle if the pistol is concealed, they are 21, they are not committing a crime and are not gang bangers. Travelers are under no obligation to inform a LEO that they are in possession of a firearm while traveling. Nor do travelers need a CHL. So in some respects, a CHL is held to a higher standard than a traveler. That has changed a bit with the passage of this new law. When I renewed my driver's license this year, the clerk knew I had a CHL. We had a good conversation. She knew I was one of the good guys! A person with a CHL in Texas has undergone a FBI background check, supplied photos and fingerprints, has demonstrated the safe use and proficiency in the use of a firearm.
Welcome to Texas - the "Come and Take It" State!
The horror!
In a previous session of the Texas legislature, 'traveling' was defined. Well, sort of. Previously the law stated that a person could carry a pistol while traveling. But 'traveling was not well defined. Now a person my carry a pistol in their vehicle if the pistol is concealed, they are 21, they are not committing a crime and are not gang bangers. Travelers are under no obligation to inform a LEO that they are in possession of a firearm while traveling. Nor do travelers need a CHL. So in some respects, a CHL is held to a higher standard than a traveler. That has changed a bit with the passage of this new law. When I renewed my driver's license this year, the clerk knew I had a CHL. We had a good conversation. She knew I was one of the good guys! A person with a CHL in Texas has undergone a FBI background check, supplied photos and fingerprints, has demonstrated the safe use and proficiency in the use of a firearm.
Welcome to Texas - the "Come and Take It" State!
Alex, I can't figure out why everyone seems to be picking on you. Oh maybe it is because you are an idiot, sorry I should look before I speak. Anyway the laws in the state of Texas now say anyone in a privately owned vehicle is considered traveling, for the first time in history the legislator has written a defination for traveling rather than letting the courts define it. So if you can legally buy a pistol in the state of Texas you can now carry it legelly concealed in the state. And by the way the term is CHL, not CCW, it stands for Cancealed Handgun License, and now citizens can carry a legal gun, cancealed. As an prior Law Enforcement Officer I can tell you it has been a long time in the making, CHL holders are not just given the CHL, they must earn it and a criminal CANNOT obtain one. So get educated before you let your aligator mouth overlaod your bunny rabbit ass!
This isn't the whole story. The main reason the law was changed is because non-CHL holders CAN carry concealed handguns in their car and do NOT notify officers of their carry. It was inconsistent and ridiculous for CHL holders to be penalized for what anyone else was not required to do.
There were only two values to this stupid TX law, the first of which is still available to CHL holders:
1) Many police were more polite to a CHL holder who they then knew was a law-abiding citizen.
2) oh wait, there wasn't another benefit
The problem was that it made law-abiding CHL holder vulnerable to IMPERSONATORS, which actually happens more often than those CHL holders causing problems for the police.
And of course, any CHL holder who MIGHT have thought to cause a problem, was precisely the one that would never care about losing his license. If you are going to draw down on a cop doing his duty, you really don't care about some law saying you have to warn the cop first.
The horror!
In a previous session of the Texas legislature, 'traveling' was defined. Well, sort of. Previously the law stated that a person could carry a pistol while traveling. But 'traveling was not well defined. Now a person my carry a pistol in their vehicle if the pistol is concealed, they are 21, they are not committing a crime and are not gang bangers. Travelers are under no obligation to inform a LEO that they are in possession of a firearm while traveling. Nor do travelers need a CHL. So in some respects, a CHL is held to a higher standard than a traveler. That has changed a bit with the passage of this new law. When I renewed my driver's license this year, the clerk knew I had a CHL. We had a good conversation. She knew I was one of the good guys! A person with a CHL in Texas has undergone a FBI background check, supplied photos and fingerprints, has demonstrated the safe use and proficiency in the use of a firearm.
Welcome to Texas - the "Come and Take It" State!
I'm a CHL holder and I don't mind showing my license to a police officer.If it will put the officers mind at ease, why not.You don't have to show yuor license unless you're ask for some ID. Even if the law says that I don't have to show my CHL, I'll still let the officer know that I'm armed.
it's texas. They talk a Helluva gunfight, but they don't fight it. Then you add the general cop cowardice and you can see where the problems show up.
Why would anyone who carries a gun all day everyday feel put upon if he wasn't informed when somebody else carries one? Simple! Not wanting to use the word chickenshit, let's just say they tend to be feather-legged.
Seems like some believe a CHL holder will turn into a gun toting maniac if confronted with the possibility of getting a speeding ticket. Too many restrictions on a freedom can take away that freedom.
Another point the author Daniel White neglected to mention:
It has been legal in Texas for NON-CHL-holders to carry a concealed handgun in their cars for a number of years now. Such persons are under no legal obligation to notify officers (and officers have no way or knowing). Thus, until this recent change, CHL-holders were held to a higher legal standard than other ordinary law-abiding citizens.
In Florida, the CCP information used to be linked to drivers license and auto registration information. This led to incidents where cops did full felony "armed-and-dangerous" stops for routine traffic violations due to the inability of law enforcement to tell the difference between a hardened criminal with a gun, and a background-checked, non-felon, citizen who went through the permit issuance process.
Resolution? REMOVE THE CCP INFORMATION FROM THE LICENSE/REGISTRATION RECORDS. This eliminated the preconception problem.
In the few cases where I've interacted with cops while in possession of a firearm, I've found the response of the officer tends to range from indifference to paranoia. It's the latter that scare me. They seem to think that, "I am a concealed carry permit holder and am armed" are fighting words.
Fortunately, in Florida, you don't have to reveal to cops that you're exercising your Second Amendment rights.
Read the bill. You still have to display.
HB 410, by Isett. Included in the DPS bill.
Categories: Concealed Carry.
Relating to the requirement under certain circumstances that a license holder display their license to carry a concealed handgun.
Companion to SB 838. Removes the requirement to display your CHL for law enforcement. Running your driver's license gives them that info anyway. This bill failed to pass, but was added to the DPS appropriations bill. Licensees still have to display for law enforcement, but the penalty of suspension was removed.
Status: Filed 12/15/08. 2/18/2009 Referred to Public Safety. 3/9/2009 Scheduled for public hearing. 3/26/2009 Reported favorably w/o amendment(s). 4/3/2009 Comte report filed with Committee Coordinator. 4/3/2009 Committee report printed and distributed. 4/6/2009 Committee report sent to Calendars. 5/1/2009 Placed on General State Calendar. 5/1/2009 Passed to engrossment as amended. 5/5/2009 Senate Referred to Criminal Justice.
Lucky,
You are correct regarding the bills you listed and to a point about still being required to show your license but the bill that passes was HB 2730, a bill to change numerous DPS rules.
While HB 410 and its companion SB 838 were designed to remove the requirement to display the license, they failed to passes, both dying from lack of action.
Fortunately, in a last minute effort, section 12A was tacked onto HD 2730 (the DPR rules bill) that achieved the same goal in a round-about way. Section 12A of HB 2730 removed the penalty for not displaying ones license as required. In other words, a CHL holder is still required to show their license by law as before, however, the law now has no teeth because there is no penalty for breaking this law (it is like the U.S. flag laws now).
So, while one is still required to do so, the requirement is no longer enforceable; having been rendered more of a suggestion than a law now.
Lucky,
Sorry, misread your post...we were saying the same thing. Guess I need to read a bit slower (and judging by my typing mistakes, I need to slow down there too).
Sam
Alex is a brady troll that frequents many of the Examiner sites.
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