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Violent crime lower following law permitting legalized carry of firearms on mass transit.
Today the Atlanta Gun Rights Examiner brings you a story you are not going to see anywhere else.
The Georgia General Assembly passed HB 89 in 2008, which made criminal prohibitions on carrying firearms on public transportation, in restaurants that serve alcohol, in state parks, and in wildlife management areas inapplicable to Georgians possessing a firearms license. HB 89 took effect on July 1, 2008, and many predicted mass bloodshed as a result. Nowhere was the controversy so acute as the city of Atlanta and its public transportation system.
The city of Atlanta immediately declared the airport off limits to firearms, and won a lawsuit filed by GeorgiaCarry.Org seeking to enjoin arrests of people with firearms licenses at the Atlanta airport. The other hot button issue was the carry of firearms on the Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit system, known affectionately to Atlantans by the acronym MARTA. People predicted shootouts on the trains and busses, and both the city of Atlanta and MARTA officials lobbied strenuously against the bill.
MARTA bus drivers gathered more than 1,000 signatures on a petition to have bullet proof shields installed, as if Georgia firearms licensees had just been waiting for the new law to pass so that they could shoot a bus driver. "We don't want cameras. Cameras don't save people's lives. ... We want something that gives us a fighting chance," said Terry Jackson, the MARTA driver who started the petition. Beverly Scott, MARTA's general manager, called the bill "vigilantism."
Atlanta's mayor went so far as to declare, "The presumption needs to be, in order to have a safe city, that there are no concealed weapons."
MARTA Office of Government and Community Relations employee Rhonda Briggins issued a widely distributed "Call to Action!" alert calling the gun bill "a recipe for disaster."
So at the end of 2009, it is worth a look to see what actually happened to crime rates on MARTA. Since July of 2008, there have been no news stories of blazing gun battles on MARTA, which would surely have been newsworthy events. That leaves interested researchers with the publicly available crime rates, and they tell a story at odds with the hysterical predictions of 2008.
Murders drop to zero
In 2007, MARTA had two murders occur on its property. In 2008, the year the new law took effect and peaceable citizens began lawfully carrying firearms on MARTA trains and busses, the number of murders dropped to zero, and there has not been a murder reported on the system since.
Robbery rate drops
The murder rate was not the only category of violent crime to go down in the wake of the new gun law. There were 94 robberies on the MARTA system in 2007. In 2008, the year the new law took effect, the number of robberies dropped to 71, and in 2009, it has dropped again to 67 (although we still have two weeks to go).
Overall rate lower
The overall rate per number of riders has also dropped since the new law took effect.
Part I Crime Rate per 1,000,000 Riders
| MARTA PART I CRIME RATE | FY06* | FY07* | FY08* | FY09* |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| PER 1,000 RIDERS | 3.90% | 3.34% | 3.35% | 3.09% |
Not all categories of crime experienced a decrease, however. Aggravated assaults went up from 2007 to 2008 and remained constant for 2009. The statistics also reflect one rape in the first quarter of 2009, with none in the previous three years.
You may view the raw numbers for yourself here.
So judge for yourself whether the predictions of massive bloodshed as a result of the new law have come to pass. Alice Johnson, the leader of Georgians for Gun Safety, a gun control group that lobbied against permitting lawful carry of firearms on MARTA, sent an email in the spring of 2008 claiming, "Innocent bystanders and law enforcement personnel stand a greater chance of being accidentally shot if more citizens carry concealed weapons in public . . ." and calling the bill "deadly legislation" that "seriously compromises community safety."
The MARTA crime numbers speak for themselves. HB 89 has failed to live up to its reputation as a serious compromiser of community safety. As the General Assembly takes up new gun bills in 2010, relating to carrying firearms lawfully in other places currently prohibited by law, the public will do well to remember what the opponents of HB 89 said and the actual result. In spite of the predictions, there have been no reported misuses of a firearm by any of the hundreds of thousands of Georgia firearms license holders on the MARTA system. In addition, crime rates on MARTA fell after the new law took effect. It would be nice to interview a few of the opponents of HB 89 now to hear whether their opinions have been modified in the slightest.
Comments
Well anyone can make assumptions. I assume that there are very few criminals out there who changed their murder plans to another venue just because of some law that this MARTA rider had never even heard of. Perhaps the crime rate went down due to effective policing and/or other factors?
And, anyone can ignore assumptions. If the crime rate on MARTA is insignificant due to better policing and/or other factors, then maybe we should send those same police and their "other factors" over to the Georgia Tech and Georgia State campuses. Both of those places could certainly use a little coincidental help with the crime rates over there. In case you haven't noticed, "wheresisthebeef?", that crime rate is through the roof. And, it is a felony for a law abiding citizen to carry in a school zone in Georgia.
Anyone who doesn't think that armed citizens force criminals to alter their venues, need to think again. Do a little checking and you will find that more murders and crimes occur in gun free zones than any other public places. Probably just another coincidence as well...
wheresthebeef, I think you missed the point. The crime rates fell when opponents of the bill were claiming HB 89 was "deadly legislation" that "seriously compromises community safety" as well as other outlandish assertions. The point of the article is that the hysterical predictions have turned out to be demonstrably untrue.
Effective policing may very well have played a part in reducing crime rates, just as other factors may have, but that really has nothing to do with the article's argument.
The MARTA amendment to HB 89 has worked just as we knew it would. I was happy to lead the charge to include MARTA and restaurants in the bill and look forward to a further expansion of carry laws in Georgia.
Great write-up. It amazes me that opponents of our right to bear arms tout out these same dire predictions again and again, state after state, year after year. They don't materialize ... and haven't in the 20+ years states have been enacting shall-issue carry laws and generally liberalizing restrictions on our right to bear arms.
Yet ... when this issue is debated in IL and WI (the only states that prohibit the bearing of defensive arms), these same dire predictions come up. Educated people learn not only from their own experiences, but from the experiences of others. Alas, I often think that those who oppose carry are needlessly obtuse.
Still no comparison stats to back up the assumptions. That's all I'm saying. But, of course the extremists began jumping to further conclusions. It's either black or white with you folks. One extreme or the other. No middle ground no compromise no meeting of the minds for the greater good. All "me", "me", "me" and if your not like me your stupid and of course, wrong.
wheresthebeef,
the primary thrust of the article is not that the gun law made MARTA safer, though the title says that. That is the attention grabbing title. The actual article is a bit more balanced and admits that the correlation of the law change to the murder rate lowering is tenuous.
However, what is unequivocally clear and which seems to be the true point of the article is that the doomsday predictions of anti-gun nuts did not come true.
wheresthebeef? says: "But, of course the extremists began jumping to further conclusions." December 15, 9:23 AM
By extremists, I presume you mean those that predicted blood and mayhem on MARTA vehicles? Again ... if the same predictions made by multiple people in multiple locations over multiple years all turn out to be false ... would you not conclude that future such predictions ought not be made? Is there no room for objectivity, and is there no shame in subjectivity? I sure hope so ...
MARTA bus drivers gather more than 1000 signatures for bullet proof shields?
Are you bus drivers real? How many bus drivers have been shot by licensed concealed carry permit holders? Sounds like some people a scared of people who carry firearms for personal protection. Where was your fear when only criminals could carry on a bus?
Wheresthebeef needs to pay more attention. This isn't just happening on the Atlanta rapid transit system, or in Georgia statewide. Since Florida's passage of "shall issue" CCW legislation in 1987, 33 other states have followed suit. Blood bath shootouts by homicidal maniac license holders have been predicted in every case. Hasn't happened. In fact, research has shown every one of the 34 states have seen declines in violent crime starting when their respective law was passed. 34 out of 34 is not just some statistical fluke or police redeployment. It's criminals deciding they'd rather not be shot dead by a victim.
"More Guns Less Crime." John Lott... Makes sense to me. But, I have a lot of common sense. It's a shame the vast majority of American Sheeple don't. "Ignorance can be fixed, stupidity is a painful and often deadly condition." hippybiker
who's carrying, and who isn't seems to be causing the guttersnipes to think before they strike!
Hipshot is correct. Life is tough, tougher if you are stupid!
Wheresthebeef, Maybe the crime rate went down because Obama got elected and gave all the criminals government jobs and unicorns. Stupid, I know, just like your statement and just as likely to be true.
Terry Jackson, Beverly Scott, Atlanta's Mayor, and Rhonda Briggins all need to be reinterviewed and asked why their predictions didn't come true.
Again, all I'm saying is there's no proof (in those stats) that the gun law had anything to do with the claim that the carry law caused the decline in crimes.
Exaggerate, exaggerate, exaggerate.
And all we are telling you is that the article does not make the claim that the gun law "caused" a decline in crime rates. The article only observes that it happened, in spite of the hysterical hypotheticals proclaimed upon its passage.
Senator Douglas,
Welcome to the comments section and thanks for your work in getting HB 89 ppassed! However, you wrote, "HB 89 has worked just as we knew it would." Did you see today's article on the federal judge's ruling pertaining to HB 89?
Ed, you mean to tell me that I'm to believe that you entitled your article without regard to it's content?
Ed, you mean to tell me that I'm to believe that you entitled your article without regard to it's content?
To "wheresthebeef",
Sad to say, you have a problem. Perhaps you should seek help.
Violent criminals are engaged in preditory behavior. Their pattern of behavior is no differant than the lion, cheeta, or any other preditor. They hunt for a likely victim. They select what looks like the easy target. They plan their attack, then they strike. The cheeta does not fear the antilope. What the cheeta does fear is the lion. Now imagine that the cheeta hears that some lions are dressing up as antilope.
If this isn't clear to you, than get help.
well it looks like the more states you can carry the less crime .if it is better policing then all states should allow concealed carry so we get better policing ???
Perhaps I was being obtuse.
Several studies of convicted violent criminals in prison show that for the most part, they don't fear the police, and they arn't afraid of going to prison. The majority of them said that what they fear most is selecting an armed victim.
If you are intending to commit a violent crime and you can choose to go where you know that possible victims are armed or unarmed, you would be crazy to risk your life by choosing to attempt to attack a possibly armed victim.
This ain't rocket science. A child can understand this. Why can't wheresthebeef, who is quibling over minor points in the article because? Why? Can't handle the truth? How about this truth? Guns in the hands of peaceful law abiding citizens are a threat to no one. Guns are not alive. They have no malace or intention. THERE ARE OVER 250,000,000 GUNS ALREADY IN PRIVITE HANDS IN THE U.S.A. YOU CAN PASS GUN LAWS TIL THE COWS COME HOME, AND THERE WILL STILL BE MILLIONS OF GUNS OUT THERE. get over it!
OK, so let's pretend there were some extreme responses.
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
I see the same statistics repeatedly—gun laws enacted, crime goes up; gun laws rescinded, crime goes down. One study isn't telling, but several, all reporting the same findings, are. The police commissioner in Memphis says the answer our city's horrendous crime rate is to put more cops on the street. A better, less expensive solution is the hare more citizens carrying guns legally. When I first heard strong gun advocates saying that it's our duty as citizens to go about armed, I thought they were all loony. I've since changed my mind. The data speak for themselves.
Hey WHERESTHEBRAIN, I guess FACTS don't mean much to ya do they? Well, unless they support YOUR irrational viewpoint, right? Read Dr. Lott's study "More Guns, Less Crime"... it's a boring read because it's mostly statistics and facts... REAL statistics, not that manipulated crap like the Kellerman "study" (the "16 kids a day crap... includes "kids" up to 24yo and criminals shot by police & citizens... classic "manipulation to produce a predetermined result").
So far NONE of your comments have any merit and show that you are either a) misinformed, b) a desperate hoplophobe who refuses to acknowledge the truth or c) an idiot liberal who thinks his farts smell like roses.
I'd prefer to think (a) but every time you post I wonder if (c) may be the case.
As to the article... isn't it funny how EVERY TIME armed citizens are allowed to carry protection, crime goes DOWN in those areas? Hmmm... guess wheresthebrain will call that "coincidence"... like the sun rising in the morning, huh?
BTW folks, wait until some CCW holding citizen bags a mugger or rapist on or around a MARTA facility... you won't see a mugging, rape or other crime for months once the "boyz in da hood" realize that law-abiding people will not only fight back but SHOOT back!
The cowardly Sickies of the "entertainment" world and their bretheren of the "Driveby Media" have been demonizing us for years. To blame criminals and crime prone cultural groups for their criminal acts might bring them criticism from the likes of Jesse ("Rent a Riot") Jackson, ostricism from their peers, and a possible need to make an honest living. Such is the nature of their putrid culture.
If we allow their crap attacks to influence legislation relevant to the 2nd Ammendment or any of our constitutional rights, we'll become victims of something a lot worse than defamation.
Defy now or cry later!
Dear anonymous pseudonym, "wheresthebeef,"
I am not sure what you are asking about being "entitled to" my article. I merely pointed out that the article does not make the claim you attribute to it. I am not even sure I wrote anything in my comment that disagreed with your post. My only point was that your comment was a strawman. You spent effort knocking down an argument that was not made.
You are quite welcome to do so, of course.
The article states "Aggravated assaults went up from 2007 to 2008 and remained constant for 2009."
Does the data show whether any of these aggravated assaults involved a licensed concealed firearms carrier? This assumes that some of the perpetrators were caught, of course, but I would be willing to bet that none of these acts involved legally licensed individuals.
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