Pope Benedict XVI (AP Photo/Gregorio Borgia)
On the heels of an onslaught of sex scandals which represent the tip of a very big iceberg dating back hundreds of years - and in which he himself has been implicated - Pope Benedict XVI has changed the subject by making yet another extraordinary claim without any credible, scientific evidence, by asserting that the famed Shroud of Turin is indeed "real." However, over the past several centuries since the Shroud's sudden emergence into history the valid scientific evidence has repeatedly demonstrated the shroud to be a fake.
As related by the Christian Science Monitor:
In the centuries-old debate over the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin, Pope Benedict XVI on Sunday diverged from his predecessor and weighed in favor of those who believe that the burial robe once cloaked Jesus Christ.
Thus, in a transparent move to turn the faithfuls' minds away from allegations that he knew about at least some of the most recent scandals involving priests molesting and raping hundreds of children of both genders, the pope has delivered at long last what a significant portion of Catholics have desired: To wit, the declaration that one of the most mysterious and important relics in all of Christendom is indeed genuine, essentially proving not only the burial account of Jesus in the gospels but also that Christ existed as a historical figure. Although many people are unaware, there is no valid scientific evidence that the New Testament figure of Jesus Christ ever existed in the first place, much less wore a shroud of any kind.
In the meantime, the Shroud has been debunked as "authentic" so many times and in so many ways that we must conclude this papal decree is just another in the long line going back many centuries regarding relics of all manner, such as dozens of OTHER shrouds in multiple churches throughout the Christian world, accompanied by an endless supply of the wood from the one "True Cross" and a score or so of Christ's one true foreskin, to name but a few of the bogus artifacts of the Church forgery mill.
Instead of beating such dead horses that only serve to damage further the Church's reputation, the pope needs to address the very serious issues and allegations of massive sexual misconduct, as well as to come clean about many other clerical misdeeds over the past nearly 2,000 years since Catholicism was founded, including the Inquisition, witch burnings and other crusades that cost the lives of some tens to hundreds of millions of people worldwide.
Sources & Further Reading
Pope Benedict says Shroud of Turin authentic burial robe of Jesus
Turin Shroud too complicated for Jesus's time
Shroud of Turin a fake?!
The Shroud of Turin
Bone Box No Proof of Jesus
The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ
Have 250 million been killed in the name of Christianity?
Comments
This last line from a CNN news story I read a few days ago actually made me lol.
"The Catholic Church's official position regarding the shroud is that it's an important tool for faith regardless of its authenticity."
cnn DOT com/2010/WORLD/europe/05/02/italy.pope.shroud/index.html?iref=allsearch
Yes, Acharya, this is an obvious ploy to divert attention from the very real dilemma he is facing from a world sickened by the burgeoning news of sexual predators in the church. It simply disgusts me.
I also wrote about the Pope lying about the Shroud. I hope you will check out my article: www-examiner.com/x-8928-Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner~y2010m5d3-Pope-dishonest-about-Shroud-of-Turin
No fan of the Ratswinger Pope, but to be fair the sexual misconduct allegations (most of which I am sure are true) actually go back many generations and very little of it is contemporary. it is being treated as all ongoing recent abuse which it simply is not. The cover up is bad of course and indeed another issue by itself.
However if statistics are examined, you'll find the most common factor in child abuse, is the abuser being the father. Shall fathers not also face worldwide condemnation?
We are seeing a beat up, media driven against the Catholic Church and this may not seem to be such a bad thing amongst most here. I certainly would not defend the Catholic Church for its own sake. However I fear that this assault on the Catholics is a Jewish driven plot, which makes it a bad thing. The Rabbinate has at least as bad a record and in their case, it is indeed seen to be current and ongoing. I have also not seen any stories of Catholic Priests being involved in illegal organ trad
Science has not debunked it, the media has, do some more research. Don't confuse apples and oranges, the Pope diverting attention is one thing, the authenticity of the Shroud is another.
Did any of you watch the show on the History Channel "The Real Face of Jesus" or the video "The Fabric of Time" where many of the world's top scientists literally spent thousands of hours studying the shroud. They know what it isn't, that it is not a painting. The biggest problem they have is they do not know what caused the image on the Shroud as the technology does not exist.
Did you also know that when the put the Shoud is on display in Turin that some vendors will be selling 3D glasses. Do you know why? Because the technology is so advanced on the shroud that there is a 3D image on it! I challenge you to research it for 5 minutes on the internet and prove me wrong. While you are at it check out the news report from ABC where a group of audio visual engineers spent 6 months and took that 3D image and made it into an actual photograph from the image that was on the shroud. Jesus is real! Pray to him right now from your heart and I guarantee your life will change forever.
its real.
One of the theories I'm leaning towards is that it was an early "photograph" experiment conducted by Leonardo Da Vinci. If you notice it's a negative, and the image bares a striking resemblance to Da Vinci. He was an inventor and he did invent a "camera obscura" in 1490.
I believe Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas were correct in "the Hiram Key" [wikipedia > The_Hiram_Key] where they assert that the shroud is evidence of a mock crucifixion of the [then] Head of Knight's of St John (?) in the 12th (?) century. This was the result of a conspiracy between Charles IV (from memory) and the then Pope to weaken 25,000 strong knights army. Effectively it was a variation on the inquisition.
As the crucified head’s name was De Mornay, Thomas I think, it wasn’t Jesus Christ. So the Pope is wrong....God bless him.
Even if someone could prove that the Shroud of Turin was produced in the early years of the Roman Empire in Palestine and really was a photographic reproduction of a crucifixion victim, that in itself does not prove the victim was Jesus. Crucifixion could have been a very common form of capital punishment in that part of the Empire at that time. Plus Jesus as a historical figure is partly based on real people as well as myth so it would be strange if there weren't any "evidence" that any of these people existed.
The latest evidence suggests that the Shroud of Turin now offers a 3d image of who I believe is Christ, but more importantly all the Catholic Saints (the only people we absolutely know are in heaven) instinctively believed in the authenticity of the Shroud. So who would a wise man believe Scientists with increasingly more compelling evidence for authenticity backed by people living with God now, or rather should I believe bad science, protestants, atheists and Jews who are already in hell.
The Church has problems (Vatican II was the tipping point that opened doors to non celibate Priests infiltrating the Bride of Christ (The Church). Traditional Catholics have not been happy with a Pope since Pope Pious XII. But the numbers show that homosexual problems are much greater amongst married men. And more bizarre is that child molesting is institutionalized in Tibetan Buddhist Monasteries, so why doesn't anybody take that up with the Dali Lama or Richard Gere.
I think it is real. It matches Jesus' physical description as defined by the Chinese Tzu Wei astrology. Jesus was born 31 March 3 BC circa 8:20 AM
Grrrrrr..
I concur, that the Shroud is indeed that that cloaked Christ and I did see the History channel presentation that astonishes even the best skeptics and scientists. There will always be those to are Atheists or Jews who hate the Catholic Church and will do anything to help its downfall (just ain't gonna happen). Christ is real and the Shroud is real. Pray for the conversion of the Jews and Atheists.
It is the illuminati's goal to destroy the Papacy. That has always been the plan of the Anglican Church which is run by the remnants of the Nephilim, or fallen angels who took up residence in Angel land or England for those who are reading. No one can prove or disprove the shroud. I have read all reports on it. It is a phenomenon. No one can be sure. Even people who say that Jesus personally signed it, are just wanting to believe it is real. However there is no proof that it is not. And it was already around before Leonardo Davinci, so He could not have crafted it.
It supposedly stayed At the Abbey in England before a fire almost destroyed it and it was secreted away to Italy. Maybe that is why England refutes it now, it's no longer theirs.
The Pope wears the fish hat of Dagon ,the god of the Philistines,and worships Mary .They worship statues which is a violation of the 2nd Commandment about graven images,and has you call their pedo priests "father" which the Bible says not to call any man father.Every Catholic I know has 0 knowledge of the Bible (myself included till I quit being deluded by this weird church)they have you pray on rosary beads which the Bible prohibits.It is the phony church,and the creepy Hitler youth Pope that calls for a new world order with teeth says the shroud is real makes for a nice diversion for the pedophile scandal.Maybe he heard voices coming out of one of the statues they worship while he was at a orgy with some of the choir boys that gave him this revelation.
Scientific fact the shroud has been deemed real and it has been on numerous shows including a recent show on Discovery. I live literally doors from one of the people studying the shroud for years. Truth is the pope has nothing to do with the shroud, the shroud is of Jesus and is not aligned with some paganistic pedophiles. This is more propaganda to make the sheeple confused and it only works on the tragically brainwashed.
I don't agree with how the pope is handling the crisis as to the shroud you are, as you often do, oversimplifying the situation. Yes the 1988 radio carbon dating of a single corner of the shroud dated it as comming from the middle ages. Subsequent studies have shown several problems with this not the least of which being that the shroud had been damaged (burned specifically) and repaired with the fragment in question having come from the repaired area. Further studies have uncovered pollen consistent with the area of gologotha some of which have gone extinct since the early 1st century. It does not prove conclusively that the shroud was Christ's burial cloth but it certainly would demonstrate that the issue is considerably more complicated then "its a proven forgery get over it."
It is genuine, the tests that prove otherwise are inaccurate. The plant fragments found on the Shroud date back to the 1st century AD and are only found in the area surroudning Judea.
The Shroud(s) is a fraud, fake, brought out every now and then with 'new evidence', when it has been proven to be fakery from many past studies. I am the owner of the real Jesus foresking, because his name was tatooed on it. Fools tell me it was some other Jesus. Bah humbug. I got the real thing. I am wondering tho, did they wear under pants in those days? I bet we could find an image of Jesus bum on it!
Incredible! This woman is foaming at the mouth spewing hatred to church and christian religion. All we hear in so called "media" is how bad the the priests are. Just makes me wonder why we have never saw any utterances about talmudic rasism. Catholic Church is bad! This is the only story we hear for the last couple of years. It does not matter that most of those stories are 30+ years old. Folks, it is about time to tell those church haters to GTFO. Mrs D.M. Murdock would you mind to be even handed and write about religious nutcases from Israel that are far worse than whatever Catholic Church did in recent times? I kind of doubt it. To make it clear, I am non-believer but I consider Christianity to be major part of my heritage. I find articles like that HIGHLY OFFENSIVE and it is not because Turin shroud might be fake or not but because I am fed up with constant spitting on my culture. GOT IT Mrs D.M. Murdock!?
According to the Plejarans, (who should know as they were instrumental in the impregnation of Mary by the et Gabriel, and then instrumental in creating Jmmanuels powers and knowledge), the Turin shroud aint his. www.theyfly.co.
Either they are lying or somebody else is.
I was the first one to offer comment on this article. As it turns out it was one of the few comments not agreeing with the churches position on the shroud. This comment appears to have been deleted.
Last night I saw a movie called "The Mist". Most of you people here sound like a particular group of the movie after the first 24 hours.
Slowly backing away now as I unsubscribe.
The shroud has already been proven to be Jacques de Molay and dates from that time period. It is not "Jesus." Christianity and Catholicism are fraudulent false religions that were created by ignorant people with no idea how secret societies such as The Order of Melchizedek and The Freemasons operate. They (the uninitiated) do not understand allegory. They do not understand pesher. Their minds cannot comprehend symbolism or archetypal thinking. The illuminated know the truths hidden in these mystery schools and know the real truths discovered through archeology and a broad study of all the world's beliefs. The ignorant run around like pigs with whatever lie makes them sleep better at night.
Leonardo da Vinci was born in 1452 – so any involvement in the purported “fabrication” of the Turin Shroud is clearly impossible, as the Shroud had been around for many centuries already.
See the following:-
[ The Times (UK) - April 6, 2009 ]
'Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican Secret Archives, said the Shroud had disappeared in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade, and did not surface again until the middle of the fourteenth century. Writing in L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, Dr Frale said its fate in those years had always puzzled historians.
However her study of the trial of the Knights Templar had brought to light a document in which Arnaut Sabbatier, a young Frenchman who entered the order in 1287, testified that as part of his initiation he was taken to “a secret place to which only the brothers of the Temple had access”. There he was shown “a long linen cloth on which was impressed the figure of a man” and instructed to venerate the image by kissing its feet three times.'
Now if we take into account the micrometric precision and human body correspondence of the marks (all in human blood) on the Shroud and the reports of the Gospels on the Passion of Jesus Christ, the only reasonable conclusion is that the technical know-how and the tools needed to make such an incredibly sophisticated fake simply were not there before 1200AD.
In addition:-
[ The Independent (UK) - 19 February 2010 ]
‘But some scientists have argued that contamination over the ages may have skewed the results.
One Vatican researcher claims to have found faint traces of script in Aramaic, ancient Greek and Latin on the shroud, while two Israeli scientists said plant pollen found on the cloth supported the view that it comes from the Holy Land.
In 2005, a study, published in the scientific journal Thermonautica Acta, claimed that the Shroud was between 1,300 and 3,000 years old.’
So, it would seem, the Shroud Deniers are complaining too much.
Oh Please, its a piece of burlap. Why is the Pope worshipping dusty rugs? Acharya is correct, its all a diversion.
How do we know this isn't a shroud of Horus? Horus is the Horizon who is the flesh of Ra. Amen.
Again, as Jacques de Molay was burned at the stake in 1314 – that excludes that the image on the Turin Shroud was left by his corpse.
Well, I read a similar article to this elsewhere but it seems this article has taken quite a few creative liberties with what the Pope said. From what I understand from the other article he claimed that the shroud was an important artifact to Christianity and that it brought many people together in prayer to worship, essentially just stopping short of endorsing it as the actual shroud of Christ. Don't know where this author got his his info, definitely needs to check his sources though.
"Don't know where this author got his his info, definitely needs to check his sources though."
If you had actually read my article, you would know exactly where I got my info from - The Christian Science Monitor, whose original article is titled, "Pope Benedict says Shroud of Turin authentic burial robe of Jesus." Pretty difficult to misconstrue that headline, so, no, I have not taken any liberties with what the pope purportedly said, since I am just going by what CSM reported. And that link was the first one in the "Sources" section, so it was readily available for those who want to know where I'm getting my info from. I also quote the CSM and linked to their article.
"This comment appears to have been deleted." The comments continue on another page, at the "Next" link, but that link often seems not to be working.
"This woman is foaming at the mouth spewing hatred to church and christian religion. " No, I am not. I am simply relating FACTS in a calm manner. Your remark itself could be deemed "foaming at the mouth" as a personal attack against me. As concerns Israel, I have been writing about Judaism and the Old Testament for many years, even on this column. You are evidently not well versed with my work, so your conclusions thereto would be erroneous.
"I am fed up with constant spitting on my culture." And why is it "your" culture? What were your ancestors before Christianity was forced upon them? And who forced Christianity upon them? Who created Christianity? Are you sure you know? Even the New Testament claims Christianity was created by those very same "Israelites" upon whom you are casting aspersions.
Even if the shroud could be accurately dated to the period,even to the exact day of Jesus crucifiction, who to say it shows the face of Jesus? It could just as easily be the shroud of a local pimp stabbed to death by one of his whores on the the same day, and the rest is benighted bullshit.
Nonsense. The shroud has been subjected to numerous scientific studies that support its authenticity. The only one that didn't was the Carbon 14 test. The sample used was later shown to have been taken from a 15th century repair site. This author seems to have ignored the history of the last 200 years wherein secular g...overnments and societies have made the Church's past misdeeds look like children's pranks in comparison
To D.M. Murdock,
The Shroud is REAL, VERY Real! You should do YOUR homework since it appeared in a small Pa. town back in the 70's. I went to 3 Priests for help on it, because I didn't understand what it was that I was seeing. Based on a TRUE story. Unsolved Mysteries Tv Show, came out with it in the early 80's, and it was then, only then, that I realized what it was. Pope called it correct, whether you like it or not. I could careless.
"If you had actually read my article, you would know exactly where I got my info from - The Christian Science Monitor, whose original article is titled, "Pope Benedict says Shroud of Turin authentic burial robe of Jesus."
"The Christian Science Monitor."= Joke. They also supported Rowling's nonsense. JK is a fake.
I couldn't care less what the Pope or anyone else says or thinks about this old piece of fabric. The amount of money and time wasted on this worthless pursuit is astonishing.
These so called "christians" need to think if this is in anyway helping humanity, the thousands who are dying each day of hunger and disease, and who are suffering in so many ways. Time to wake up and do something that makes a difference in this world and stop with the whole bullshit scam. WWJS? Try to get an antique authenticated or help people. Hypocrites take your toys and go home. The world doesn't need this crap. We need to be focusing on solutions to the problems we all share on our planet. If Jesus were more than a mythological character, do you actually think he would care about any of this nonsense? Get over it, and so what he suposedly told you to do, like care for your brothers and sisters who are suffering.
Let me begin with simple assertion. Yes, I don't follow your writings Mrs D.M. Murdock. To make it simple, I have no time for bullshit. Nevertheless, I am not going to apologize for Christian history in any way. If you really think about it, no one has clean hands, EVERY religion is based on THE SAME PREMISES and serves THE SAME PURPOSES. Deny it! It is just outside factors that make one religion more popular than another. You want ma to be ashamed of MY culture and heritage. I am not and I never will be, at least for as long as you will not make the same claims towards other beliefs and religions. No exceptionalism madam! You say you write about judaic religion too? Interesting, I dare you to point to ANY article you wrote that is remotely as critical as this one when it comes to talmudic writings and we both know what kind of horrible beliefs it promotes. So prove to me that you are not hypocryte Mrs D.M. Murdock!
isn't it depressing that the more scientific evidence disputes religion, the more self-satisfied religious people become with the fact that they're "trusting their faith" in the face pure human reason? ironic. in fact, irony becomes religious, quite splendidly. some catholics go through "family planning" classes where women try to become keenly aware of when they're ovulating and therefore more likely to become pregnant, to *avoid* unwanted pregnancy. naturally this is because the catholic church as an institution is, for "moral" reasons, *literally* anti-condom, which i suppose makes it pretty clear why their priests prefer young boys.
Ted N (aka dick wad) said "I dare you to point to ANY article you wrote that is remotely as critical as this one when it comes to talmudic writings ... prove to me that you are not hypocryte Mrs D.M. Murdock!"
Wow, what an ass ... she has 9 articles on Judaism here on examiner alone. Her article, "Quotes from Judaism" truthbeknown. com /judaismquotes. htm has been around since the mid-90's. All of her books address Judaism as well so, before being a dick, you might check first before making a complete ass of yourself.
"I am not and I never will be...ashamed of MY culture and heritage"
A decent human with a conscience would be. Crawl back into hole you came from. You demonstrate a very low integrity & character when you maliciously attack an individual rather than address the issues at hand. Learn how to grow-up & join the human race. You are an embarrassment to decent Christians.
As for “the amount of money and time wasted on this worthless pursuit” being “astonishing”- evidently a LOT of people (and some Tribes) are desperate to “demonstrate” the Turin Shroud to be a fake, given that they have to resort to falsifying history in order to sustain their feeble arguments.
Which indeed shows how important the Turin Shroud is.
Hi D.M.
The debate on the shroud is far from closed and I would have to disagree with your assertion that the shroud has been proven a forgery. To state “the case is closed” as a fact, when it is not, is dishonest. As near as I can tell, the debate is still ongoing, and although I remain skeptical, and agree that it is probably something other than claimed, until all the jurors come to an agreement, the case is far from closed.
Please also don’t be so dishonest as to make a statement like the following “no valid scientific evidence that the New Testament figure of Jesus Christ ever existed”. I am sorry, but that is just stupid, the same litmus test could be applied to Alexander the Great, Socrates, Plato, and a host of other figures. I find it telling that very few people in antiquity, including those from the first and second centuries such as Clement and Ignatius who’s writings have survived, and who claim to have known the apostles, never questioned the validity of the existenc
"To state 'the case is closed' as a fact, when it is not, is dishonest. As near as I can tell, the debate is still ongoing"
Thank you. If it were tried in a court of law, I would put my money on the evidence being on the side of a forgery - especially if the evidence for the Jesus mythicist case is factored in. That's about as factual as someone can get, so I don't have a problem taking a stance in the direction of the serious science and facts. And the debate is only ongoing in those for whom it has not been reconciled, based on this science. Logic and rationality are enough to declare this case closed.
Which “direction of the serious science and facts” are you talking about?
All your arguments have been duly demolished by more recent research and the strength of logic.
All you’re left with is the hatred and the libel for the German Pope, Benedict XVI.
Hi DM
Thank you for the response, it is appreciated. However, I would ask that you do more research on the case for the shroud. Please reference the following quote. I remain skeptical of the authenticity, but the scientific analysis is far from complete. The samples tested were from a re-woven part of the shroud, and this is barely disputable.
“A January 20, 2005 article in the scholarly, peer-reviewed scientific journal Thermochimica Acta (Volume 425, pages 189-194, by Raymond N. Rogers, Los Alamos National Laboratory, University of California) makes it perfectly clear: the carbon 14 dating sample cut from the Shroud in 1988 was not valid. In fact, the Shroud is much older than the carbon 14 tests suggested. “
Dear Mr Jack. Whatever name you call me is undeserved in a sense that I (a non believer) am fed up with multiple attempts on many fronts to make me feel guilty for anything and everything I have had no part of except the fact that I am white male with christian background. Let me enlighten you that I did not bring slaves to this country, I did not have a part in colonizing any nation, I am not ashamed to be straight male and I do believe that core of personal identity is based upon common history, language and tradition of which religion is a huge part. Therefore I am offended when homosexuality in Catholic Church is incessantly brought up as an attempt to smear anyone with any connection to this culture. I am offended by the fact that while commenting on totally different issue it is yet again brought up in here. Don't you get it Mr Simpleton? When enough is enough?
Maybe you like to be spat upon for no reason at all but I resent it. So should any sane person, dickhead.
Yeah it's real alright- a real masterpiece of crude photograpghy and deception by the master himself- Leonardo DaVinci! Carbon dating is not definitive scientific proof no matter what the quack evolutionists say but the fact that the shroud was dated to being from the 1,400's means that they were only off a bit with that test.
MarcoDP says:
Leonardo da Vinci was born in 1452 – so any involvement in the purported “fabrication” of the Turin Shroud is clearly impossible, as the Shroud had been around for many centuries already.
See the following:-
[ The Times (UK) - April 6, 2009 ]
'Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican Secret Archives, said the Shroud had disappeared in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade, and did not surface again until the middle of the fourteenth century. Writing in L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, Dr Frale said its fate in those years had always puzzled historians.
However her study of the trial of the Knights Templar had brought to light a document in which Arnaut Sabbatier, a young Frenchman who entered the order in 1287, testified that as part of his initiation he was taken to “a secret place to which only the brothers of the Temple had access”. There he was shown “a long linen cloth on which was impressed the figure of a man” and instructed to venerate the image by kissing its feet three times.'
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