File this under "makes me embarrassed to be human":
On November 16th, pastors and other clergymen (yes, clergyMEN. Get your feminist head out of the gutter.) will be congregating at our nation's capitol to publicly defame homosexuals, in order to "challenge" the Matthew Shepard Act, a congressional act which protects citizens against hate crimes committed because of the victim's perceived sexuality. The pastors don't have a problem with hate crime legislation itself, but specifically with this hate crime legislation, which limits their god-given rights to incite violence against gay people.
Gary Cass of the Christian Anti-Defamantion League (oh, yes) had this to say about what happens when hate crime laws include homosexual victims:
"Christians are singled out for prosecution, with threats, imprisonment and fines simply for refusing to stop doing what Christ commands: proclaiming the truth."
In the interest of sympathy, let's put ourselves in these Christians' shoes. How tragic it is, that so many people devote their lives to spreading hatred, not because they are hateful people, but because they have been indoctrinated-- brainwashed-- with a bronze age story about the origin of the universe. When someone asks you, "Yeah, but what harm does religion do?" point them to examples like this.
Whenever we teach our children that groundless faith is a virtue, we pave the way for groundless violence.
Rest in peace, Matthew Shepard.
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Comments
Well said at the end there. These kinds of stories first make me laugh, then cry out of such sadness. I agree...these types of things definitely make me wish I wasn't the same species as these folks.
Yes, but aren't 'hate' crimes really 'thought' crimes? Don't we already have laws forbidding assault, murder, even inciting to violence? Should negative thoughts and emotions be counted as crimes in themselves?
Hate Crime laws are completely unconstitutional. Americans have Constitutional rights to free speech and to practice their religion. No one has has the "right" to not be offended by hateful words.
I'm not sure that I support hate crime legislation as a whole. But as long as we have it on the books, it needs to cover sexuality in addition to other categories. And I agree, hateful words should not be censored - but those that incite violence should; in fact, they already are.
Funny how none of these "Christians" had an issue with hate-crimes laws until sexual orientation and gender identity were to be added to them. Rather makes you wonder...
These pastors obviously have not read the Hate Crimes Bill and are reacting to the TV/radio reactionary hosts. They believe if they say something against homosexuality like it is a sin or wrong they will go to jail which it does not say so.
It amazes me how people can believe in the Bible which is HUGE and the most important part they take away from it is to hate homosexuals.
As a free thinker you should lift you gaze beyond the USA, and into the world at large. Many people who are Christian or become one today are being killed for it in several countries, including practicing democracies like India. Granted, it is dangerous for a homosexual to step out of the closet in many of the same countries. But intolerance is not the product of Christianity. Doubt this? Then just for giggles, tell your circle of free-thinking friends that you have decided to become a Christian and have accepted Jesus as your Savior. See what their reaction to you is then: one of acceptance, or one of pity and ridicule. Then look to see where intolerance really lies.
No Ron, hate crimes are not thought crimes. It has never been against the law to think anything, it is when you act that it can be against the law. For example: It is not against the law for a man to fantasize about raping a woman, it is not even against the law to role play rape if the woman is willing. It is when you actually rape, thereby harming another person, that it breaks the law.
You cannot tell anyone that they can't believe homosexuality is wrong, but if a man were to go out and rape a woman solely because he believes she is a lesbian and so she deserves it, he is guilty not just of rape, but of a hate crime as well.
The whole thing is ridiculous - we DON'T NEED extra special laws against supposed "hate" crimes - we ALREADY have laws against assault & battery, murder, arson, and so on. C'mon! By created "protected classes" we open the door to interpretations of the law that get pretty sketchy, depending on the judge involved. Do we really want that? Lets just ENFORCE the laws we already have! As for the comments made by the Evangelical Pastor - I don't see where he said he wanted to preach "hate" - he said he was worried that his right to preach "the truth" - and to him that means that homosexual behavior is a sin. And he has a point - making homosexuals a "protected class" - does that mean that you can, or can't preach the thousands of year old creed that certain behaviors are, or aren't a sin? How would that work? I'm not talking about inciting riots - that's a crime - but preaching beliefs. What happens to free speech - also constitutionally protected? Just wondering...
Croce: I certainly do not think that hate crimes are solely a Christian phenomenon. However, I do think that it is a tragedy that a bronze age book of myths has this sort of control over what might have been otherwise nonviolent people. I think it's an intellectual crime that a book that is patently false is put on a pedestal, immune from criticism, when it incites this kind of violence. And I think that hate crime, wherever it resides, and whatever the cause, is a terrible thing that affects not only the victim, but the entire minority group of which that person was a member. This particular example combines all of these horrible realities into one, and I think it is our duty to speak out against it.
Funny how we protect the religion of Islam, okay to shoot 41 people, kill 13; he had PTSD. Couldn't be a hate crime. But Christians preaching their religion is a HATE CRIME? Whiplash.
This hate crimes bill was ANTI-FAITH. It is a direct attack on Christian beliefs and traditional family values in America. Anyone who says differently is delusional.
There was no need for special prosecutorial laws for a "certain" segment of the population when laws were already on the books.
If Christians bother others so much, think how much homosexuality bothers those of us who know it is going to kill those who practice it. We do not hate the person, we love them. We are commanded by God to tell about salvation. Sin is sin. God never changed His mind. Some church might say it's ok but that does NOT mean God does.
May God have mercy on these people's souls.
I support the hate-crime bill protecting gays/lesbians and transgenders. We as Americans have freedom of speech and freedom of religion. What we do not have is a freedom to incite violence. When words are used to incite violence, then it should be a crime. I agree with the author-pastors protesting their right to incite violence (in the name of Christianity??)-this makes me embarressed to be human. I am Catholic and am embarressed with the Catholic Church's stance on gays/lesbians. I have been married almost 40 years-gays and lesbians do not threaten my marriage..they are people just like straight people. This is discrimination pure and simple.
Lea-just because the shooter in the Ft Hood murders was a muslim does not mean that this is what muslims promote. Most muslims in America are peaceful people, practicing Islam and proud to be American-just like you and I are proud to be American. Tim McVey killed 168 people in OK City bombing. He was raised Catholic... no one tried to say that Catholics condone violence. It is unfair and discriminatory to bring a person's race or ethincity into this horrific crime. The only one guilty of this crime is the shooter.
As you can see, the christian god created evil, so, let's not blame the preachers/priests for what they do. They are just messengers of evil.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (Isa. 45:7).
"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?" Lam. 3:38).
See how evil the christian god is:
"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys" (1 Sam. 15:3).
Pope Leo X said:"What PROFIT has NOT that FABLE of Christ brought us?!"
favonian@hotmail.com
These sad illiterate bigots stain and shame the USA. "Prescibed" and a mix of capitals and small letters. They follow a message from the Stone Age and are fooled into thinking this is the word of God. Meanwhile, and my sorrow is rea, for the victims of a Muslim military psychiatrist who believes in a paedophile prophet who married a child who may have been as young as six. I cringe at what they represent for humanity.
You know, I checked the only sources you mentioned in your article. I saw no evidence (apart from one placard in a picture which could have been held by any group) which showed any pastor was promoting hate crimes. Now by that term I mean crimes which cause physical harm to others - I did see that one person in the UK was prosecuted under a similar law for protesting by letter about a decision to hold a homosexual parade. And that the pastors wanted to be free to call homosexuality a sin ... these are hate crimes??? Surely not!
So, I submit your headline was misleading.
Oh, the freaks come out by day. When is it ok to kill 41 people or Matthew Shepard. Clearly, this is abrahamic infestation. That Muslims and Christians are upset that murdering for your belief in Saklas is challenged at all.
Get thee behind me Jehovah/Allah/Satan. Leave foul Demiurge.
John, I don't know which version of the Bible you are using, but my Bible says, in Isaiah 45:6-7, "I am the Lord, and there is no other, the one forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these. One of the examples of calamity I would like to use is when God allowed the Assyrians and the Babylonians to attack Israel and take them into captivity. God was not doing this because He is evil, but because He is a father and realized His disobedient children needed to be punished in order to stop their evilness. Punishment is something that happens when you do something wrong, not because the person who is punishing you is evil. Secondly, homosexuality is a sin, but instead of condemning them for their misunderstanding, we are to show them the truth. Those who practice hate crimes are not exhibiting the grace and mercy shown to us by Jesus Christ.
It's unfortunate that people will believe anyone that says, "I am a Christian," without looking at their lives to see if they are really walking the walk. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter." Some of today's "Christians" are like those mentioned in Isaiah 29:13, God says when pronouncing judgement, one of His reasons is, "Because this people draw near with their words and honor me with their lip service, but they remove their hearts far from me, and their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote." Where are the true Christians who search for God with their hearts, rather than their minds? Who believe and follow His words, rather than the traditions of men. When are we going to put God first, rather than our own desires and follow His will rather than our own?
File this under "makes me embarrassed to be a pastor." These guys really need to read our Bible, and I mean more than just the "don't commit homosexual acts" part. This kind of violence, and promotion of violence, does not represent Christian principles at all.
What is offensive about the "hate crimes" type bills, is that they give special status to gays, etc. It is in essense saying, "gays are more special than other people. they matter MORE than other people".
There should be legislation about incitement to violence/murder against ANYONE. End of law. there should be no special protections that violence against one group of people, is somehow "worse" than against another group. Because that implies that incitement to violence against a DIFFERENT group, is somehow okay!
Philip,
You completely overlook the fact that our justice system examines at a person's intent (and rightly so) in most criminal cases. This is why we have distinctions such as 1st degree, 2nd degree, manslaughter, criminal negligence, felony murder, etc. Attacking someone not because of what they did, but because of who they are, is especially despicable and should have a higher penalty.
Plus, hate crime legislation has been around since the 1960s and the sky has not fallen. The KKK are still allowed to spew their racist filth, just as these homophobic pastors will still be able to spew their bigoted filth from the pulpit. This law also doesn't just apply to gay people. For example, a gay person could be prosecuted for attacking someone because he/she was straight.
So basically, you don't know what you are talking about. At all.
Well, as an atheist, I can also proclaim the truth: Christianity has a two thousand year history of committing torture, murder, conquest, and genocide, and the sooner Christians abandon their immoral and offensive faith, the better for everybody.
However, because I'm actually a rational, moral human being, I do not advocate the death penalty for Christians.
Our loving God does not promote evil. It is the absence of God from peoples' lives, and the rejection of Him, that results in evil. The absence of good = evil. The absence of light = darkness. There really is no such thing as cold, cold is really only the absence of heat. The absence of heat = cold. Likewise...
The absence and rebellion of God in a society results in hate and evil. We need more God, more Love, more Bible! God is love, and in Him there is no darkness at all. Sin and our rebelliousness unto God is the problem in our world, and always has been, not God. :)
Jesus loves you! God bless!
Wasn't Matthew Shepard's death a drug deal gone wrong? But by the time it was revealed, the mother and the media insisted that no, it had to be a "hate crime" because he was gay?
Carrie: "When someone asks you, "Yeah, but what harm does religion do?" point them to examples like this."
Please help yourself to a book on Logic: this is the classic Composition Fallacy wherein the characteristics of a part of the whole are used to judge the whole itself. In other words, if this particular group of religious people are evil, then ALL religious people are evil. Another example would be:
"The light from the sun causes sunburns. Therefore the Earth would be better off without the sun."
This is why atheists like you are so laughable: first condemn religious people for being simple-minded and judgmental, then go out and be equally as simple-minded and judgmental.
Eugene: You seem to think that by answering the question, "What harm does it do?" we are saying that every single Christian does exactly the same thing. Obviously, that's not the case. When someone asks what harm it does, there are two answers: "It does no harm," or "here is an example of the harm it does." This is a perfect example.
By the way, I have a degree in logic. But thanks.
YOU have a degree in LOGIC???
Get your money back.
Please re-read what you wrote. You prefaced the question with:
"How tragic it is, that so many people devote their lives to spreading hatred, not because they are hateful people, but because they have been indoctrinated-- brainwashed-- with a bronze age story about the origin of the universe."
You are implying, right here, that Christianity is the sole agent causing hatred. That ALONE is a logical fallacy. I can't remember what this one is called (YOU have the degree, YOU tell me). I think it's false cause or single cause? A good example would be this:
A group of dentists pulled out too many teeth. Therefore dentistry is the sole cause of pulling out too many teeth.
If I lumped all Atheists together into one gestalt like you do to Christians, I would point out each and every day the evils of Chairman Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot et al whenever someone asked me "Well, what HARM does atheism do?"
Yes, LOGIC!!! omg!!!!!!1one
Saying that "so many" people do something (spread hatred) because of a cause (Christianity) does not mean that that action never exists anywhere else. I'm going to close out here with responding to you, Eugene, because I only find myself repeating myself, not just on this topic, but across the board. I appreciate your amazingly devoted readership, though. Tell your friends!
Why is this so hard to understand?
If I a) declare something to be the word of an unquestionable authority that b) I know the people I'm talking to submit to and c) the words I use contain language such as 'abomination' and 'put to death', then I [b]am [/b]inciting violence.
Note that the same source also contains advice on submitting to law and human authority. Of course this particular source can be used to justify anything and its direct opposite. That's why this source is not advisable to inform opinion on anything pertaining reality.
yes homosexuals are against the bible but it says "that all sould come to repents, also God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son." other wise it saids to hate the sin not the sinner. book of ACTS 2:38-39 "then Peter said unto them repent and be bapastim in the name of Jesus Christ for the remissions of our sins then ye shall receive the Holy Ghost for the promiss is unto you and to your children and to all that are afar off as many as the Lord shall call.
i am against homosexuals but i don't want to put them to death or be violence to them. but i want to bring them out or away from the sin that they are committing. to bring them to repent and come into a heavenly home so they can see the God that created them and his love and mercy unto all men and women. we need more God and his love and mercy and not his judgement unto us. he will judge the world but only to those that will not repent and come walk with the Lord. you will be in heaven or hell for the sins you committed or didn't committed. repent and come unto the Lord to be in a heavenly home with him for the Lord has made a way for everyone to make it to heaven and that is the book of ACTS 2:38-39 this is the start for you to come unto the Lord.
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