Handsome, smart, sexy with an edge.
Men are confused about what women want in a dating relationship – no surprise there. However one of the chief things single men are confused about is the conflict between what single women say they want in a man vs. what they are attracted to. Like a moth to a flame, women are drawn to thugs, bad boys and players. Here's why.
With a Choice between Erkel and a Thug, Erkel Would Lose
Next to the subject of Global Warming, this has been one of the most debated topics in recent memory. The definition of "nice guy" is very subjective, and has an association related to personal perception, regardless of gender.
If you look at the movies, television sitcoms, novels, and society overall, you can see that the men that excite women all have the same common denominator: the guys that go against the grain.
Regardless of race, genre, or era, this is the type of guy that women attach a high romantic value to. Clyde in "Bonnie and Clyde", Rambo, even Bluto. Men such as these take chances (some wise, some not so smart), and live on the edge. They take pleasure in pushing the envelope and deviating from conventional behaviors. They go after what they want with a focus and determination that women find extremely exciting.
These men are not afraid to shock the sensibilities of others, make mistakes, nor to generate social or personal disdain. So when a woman says that a man is "too nice," what she really means is that this particular guy lacks the sexual charisma, charm, or whatever it is that makes that particular woman feel hot and horny and interested.
Whenever someone refers to a man as "too nice," it translates in women's minds to "doormat!" which will sap the sexual tension right out of any woman. Most women love to see a man who has a backbone, beliefs that he stands by, who won't put up with any of her nonsense, and that will call her out on her stuff when he feels she's out of line. He has to turn her on visually as well.
Ronald, a bad boy with a Masters Degree
Pimp Pimp Hooray!
A lot of what women like about thugs and players is the energy they exude as men. Let's say we have a geeky but attractive young professional male that wears Hugo Boss suits and ties to work. Women in his office building say he is handsome, funny and interesting. Let's say we add an earring and put him in the latest hip hop gear (you know, the baggy stuff that the nice guys hate). Chances are great that the same professional women who found him attractive as a suited businessman would also find him irresistible as a thug, because they are attracted to his male energy. He would also draw the attention of younger women that are attracted to his energy and his youthful "gear."
Ronald is a 28 year old IT professional with a Masters degree in Computer Science. He agrees with the assessment above: "I've experimented with this issue before. I'm able to pull more women in Sean Jean or Coogi than when I'm in my shirt and tie."
Men, genetically hardwired to place a very high value on sexual enjoyment, should be able to understand that women feel sexual desire and want to be able to enjoy sex. It's impossible to choose a man who leaves a woman feeling sexually cold and dissatisfied over a thug who makes her heart race and her imagination come alive with erotic possibilities. It's the equivalent of a man preferring to be with a cheating gold digger that rocks his world in bed, vs. a really nice 300 lb women with a good heart.
Women love cool, confident men.
Release the Freak
All women have a little bad girl inside that would, with the right motivation and encouragement, love to break free. A woman needs a man who can complement that side of her.
And no, the opposite of a "too nice" guy does not have to be a straight thug. It's frustrating that nice guys tend to see the world in such black and white, polar opposite ways. In reality, there is a whole range of men in between the two extremes… in the gray area.
However, a man allows himself to be taken advantage of by women from his past, family members, or coworkers and fails to stand up for himself would lose respect in most women's eyes. If he failed to stand up for himself and didn't put folks in check that crossed boundaries (without being rude or threatening violence of course) he would be dismissed as "too nice." If he were ineffectual with his ex-wife and allowed her to run over him and interfere with the discipline and rules of the household he established to raise their children, or if he failed to establish himself as a force to be respected and reckoned with as a man period, most women would say he was "too nice."
The man that a woman deems to be "too nice" does not, by her individual standards, present himself as the image of masculine power, strength, confidence, charisma, energy, sexuality, decisiveness, or character.
Too nice also means:
- You are a wimp in that woman's eyes… milquetoast, sensitive and soft like a woman.
- you are confused about what to do and how to do it to protect yourself when you see a game being run.
- you have low self esteem and don't demand respect from the women you date in an effort to please, which comes across as groveling.
- you are always there for people that are never there for you. Too nice means your family knows you are an easy tap for rent money after they spent theirs gambling in Reno.
- your boss has no problem calling you in do work and assignments on the weekend, even though s/he knows you have plans with your family.
Is There Really Such a Thing as The Man You Love Being "Too Nice?"
It is true that some women will confuse the caring guy that loves her (such as the one I described above who doesn't let anyone take advantage of him) with the guy that is "too nice," but that's generally due to low self esteem and a belief that she doesn't deserve better. Ultimately, something is intrinsically wrong a woman who thinks of herself in this manner.
Smart women don't care for the hot headed, dictatorial, insecure about his manhood, always feeling like he has to prove that he's "da man," type of guy generally associated with the word "thug." You don't have to be a smart-mouthed, violent knucklehead to avoid being labeled "too nice," but you definitely have to be a man about yours.
Women want a versatile, confident and secure man that can handle himself on the basketball court, in the boardroom and in the bedroom. Women love a responsible, mature man who is appreciative of family, and respectful of women, children, people and life. Women want a guy with intelligence and education, balanced with common sense and street smarts.
Women love a nice guy with a little thug in him.
For more info: Got an issue you want to see addressed in this column or a burning advice issue you need help on? Send me an email by clicking the link in the right hand nav bar. Be sure to register for a subscription to the feed so you'll get notice of when your question has been answered.
Comments
Great article. Those guys who are 'too nice', the 'milquetoast'type of guys usually suck in bed too. That's why they are so nice out of bed. They are lousy in bed so they try to make up for it by being 'so nice' overly solicitous, groveling and just a crashing bore. No matter how 'nice' they are, they won't get or keep the girl because no woman wants a guy who isn't 'nice' in bed.
I dont agree with this. There are genuinely good-natured men out there that are confident, educated, good-looking, and know how to please a woman, because they WANT to... I know because I'm one of them. The problem is most women do not know what they want... or they want what they havent got. They haven't defined their priorities and are still stuck in that high school mentality well into their thirties or forties. Most women are superficial, as is proven by this comment.
I love this article. I'm really impressed that someone is awake enough and has been able to put reality in words so eloquently.
The only thing I would like to add is that "nice guys" are unaware of the fact that women are not all sweet.
They tend to get involved and used by women,and they take the blame for it too!
I've been there and learnt my lessons too!
Great article!
Although.. You could keep it tight and just say it all in the topic for the ones who already knew it :D
"Women love a nice guy with a little thug in him!"
That is the ultimate truth. And most of us know it, but still need to be reminded about it once in a while.
LOL women... Ya today they want a little thug, tomorrow they want more thug. The day after that they want a black gangsta.
Another words women want a guy who can read their mind and be what they want at that moment.
If a man wants that he is called a bigot but as with everything else in America today the only thing that matters is what women want. Until they hit the 40's and then no one gives a damn what they want so they just stay angry 24/7.
I see....so all that "Just be yourself" talk is that. Talk. It should be more like "just be yourself..unless your a nice guy". I find ti sad that men have allowed women to define them when women themselves don't know what they hell they want. They want a guy who's this but who's also like this, that, this, that, that.
Women are so goddamn picky about what they want and don't want in a guy and I hate how society seems to cater only to them. It's all about what women want isn't it? The world had to revolve around them.
"Men, genetically hardwired to place a very high value on sexual enjoyment, should be able to understand that women feel sexual desire and want to be able to enjoy sex."
No, I don't understand. I don't consider sex to be important. In fact, I could never trust a woman who thinks it's important. She's guaranteed to be a cheating slut. You pretty much say the same thing in the next sentence, and in the next paragraph, even if you didn't consciously mean to.
The author is mistaken when she says that this has been the case for all eternity.
In the 1st half of last century, women made go through an incredibly long no-sex courtship process. They chose only guys with strong work ethics, high loyalty, and docility (and respect for women).
So....what happened? In one word: matriarchy. Through welfare and pro-mother divorce laws, government began competing *directly* with husbands to support women.
It is true women desire "alpha males", but in the past this mean being gainfully employed, and respectful of women.
The growth of the "bad boy" and "playa" grew as big-sugar-daddy-government replaced husbands. Freed of the need to *stay* married to her hardworking poindexter husband (thanks to pro-mommy feminist-inspired divorce laws) for income, and be supported by society women could now choose their lovers (male or female) based on only the pleasure principle for her moral compass.
John D, Anon, Conner and Conrad are mistaken. Had theye read my article "Male Attempts to Control Female Sexuality" on www.survivingdating.com they would understand that any behaviors women exhibited prior to the 1960s sexual revolution were dictated by men and women's desire to meet with men's approval as they had been socialized to do.
In 2009 women don't care to meet your approval anymore, they desire only to meet their own expectations. This leaves men confused and without power. No longer in the driver's seat and controlling what women do with their own bodies, men are angry and afraid of women's sexual power. Men both desire and are terrified of women's sexual hungers, calling women who freely enjoy sex "sluts" and "whores." Instead of being afraid of women's sexuality, learn how to please women and how to enjoy sex without judging. I will address men's fears soon, and planning a seminar on dating, confidence and not being a "nice guy" to be held in San Francisco soon.
Deborah:
This is a common theme (I would say myth) among feminists. That pre-1960 women's sexuality was "in service" to men. lol, what a ridiculous concept.
The fact is that pre-1940 life was much harsher for everybody (pre-gasline stove, automated furnaces, pre-washing machines).
This time wasn't as much about female roles to *serve men* but necessary roles for survival. Women worked 10-12hour days mending clothes, and washing. However, this was before OSHA & unions, so men worked 10-15 hour days for unfair wages & very hazardous work (1 senior told me he saw a guy in the 1920's lose a finger & told he needed to come in the next day or lose his job). This was about survival--not male approval.
Also, during the great depression when there were too few jobs, if both man & woman worked outside the house, many families would have looked at that couple as literally (and accurately) stealing the wages from other families with no provider.
Continued....
I don't want women to live by my approval.
What I want them to do is if they are going to make decisions with their libido to pay for that lifestyle themselves (just as men do). Not to: divorce their hard-working poindexter husband (putting their kids through he11) because they're *bored* just to be with some cl1t-ringing bad boy and subjecting their kids to who knows what kind of environment.
This all occurring while on a government enforced paid vacation from bio-duped-dad while (get this) *SHE PROCLAIMS HER INDEPENDENCE!* lol!
Hey, you can live any hedonistic life you want, but pay your own damn way and don't subject the kids to trauma/danger. Be a mom before a s1ut (or is that too hard?).
The internet is filled with stories of women who bedded down with bad boys, who tragically proves how bad he is & harms/kills the kids.
Female sexuality can become aberrant and conflict with parenthood and career? Wow, female sexuality can be damaging just as male's can? What a con
Concept!
Also, I would mention that female sexuality is much more "in service" now than it ever was.
Thanks to feminism we now have the hookup culture where women aren't even worth the time or money for a date. Thanks to the replacement of husbands by big-sugar-daddy-government, women are reduced to 1 and only 1 role: a bodily fluid repository for men's pleasure.
You're response is so full of arrogance and ignorance it's funny. And you profess this is such a *great* change. You know what? It is as long as your only metric is how many orgasms men and women are having. Yep, things are better than ever.
Women are only "a bodily fluid repository for men's pleasure" in some men's minds but not in reality. Women are human beings with many varied purposes on this Earth. I know it's hard for a woman-hater to understand. But how unfortunate it is for you, whether you know it or not, to live with such distorted thinking. I guarantee you it does you no real favors. It wasn't so long ago that women lost their identity during marriage. Women weren't allowed to vote, sign contracts, get a higher education, have most jobs outside the home, or any number of things. When they married, they had no rights over their own bodies. Their husbands owned them as property which he had a right to use for his pleasure whenever it satisfied him. Even the courts have unabashedly claimed that. Women had no recourse. They had to endure institutionalized rape and oppression. They were beaten in their marriages and could do nothing about it. There were undoubtedly many women who were smart and could have gone to school, got a satisfying career, and contributed to the greater scope of humanity through many avenues but instead they were forced to stay home and have lots of babies, whether they wanted to or not. If they did contribute something, often their husband would take the credit. Hookup culture or not, feminism overcame many obstacles and any woman who is wise will appreciate the sacrifices that were made so women can have the freedom they now enjoy.
It's 2009. Nobody knows who Jasper Milquetoast was. Who uses that word anymore?
The moral of the story is, don't the opinions of women too seriously. One day they want a thug, the next day they want a nice guy to buy lunch.
who cares what women want? I'm busy enjoying my life and prioritizing it without regard for female children in adult bodies.
prior to 1960 huh?
I got news for you sweetie, women were the ones who set the stage for how women acted prior to the 60's just like they do today. Except back then women had a sense to plan for the future and could see what would be important later in life and they knew to keep the younger women, with little to no wisdom and experience, in line or stuff exactly like your self centered article would happen.
Your feminist ideas have turned this country into a nanny state and left all the women as the most de-based creatures on earth and thats not even my opinion thats the opinion of every man and woman outside of Western civilization. Just keep in mind honey everything has a rebound and that rebound is not far off I am thinking. Enjoy it while you can....
I don't enjoy sex with women anymore so what does thay make me??? Gay?
So what you saying is, women are shallow?
"In 2009 women don't care to meet your approval anymore..."
Ah, so this is that fabled "equality" that feminists have been pushing. Women have absolute power to do whatever they want to without any responsibilities, while men are left feeling confused, angry and powerless.
"Instead of being afraid of women's sexuality, learn how to please women and how to enjoy sex without judging."
I am struggling to understand what it is that I am supposed to be afraid of. Is women's sexuality going to break into my apartment at night and beat me up, or something?
Why should I give up my values and preferences just to please some sluts that I don't need or care about? If I started demanding that women must conform to my preferences in order to please me, I would be accused of misogyny.
LOL a lot of angry men posting on this topic. Apparently it struck a nerve with the so called 'nice guys who probably can't catch a break with the object of their 'rejection'. So they quietly seeth until they pop a brain cell and go kill a woman like those fools at Yale and that guy in Pennsylvania. Be careful of the men who talk like these guys on this post. They seem to hate women and they're dangerous.
@anon
How about I accuse you of misogyny anyway?
Guys it's true.
Most American women only respect men who treat them like dirt.
OK fine, give them what they want.
You know instead of these guys complaining, why not take the advice from a woman who knows what women are looking for in guys. Instead of resenting the advice, take it in and use it to your advantage. She's telling the truth, giving you guys the inside scoop. If I were a guy I'd be like Thank you Ms. Cooper, but you guys are whining and that is just not attractive. Women don't want guys to treat them dirt either and if that is all some of you got out of this article, then I feel bad for you because your reading comprehension skills are not up to par.
Duke.
Hofstra.
Women aren't held accountable for their behavior - we get it.
@Layton "Duke.Hofstra.Women aren't held accountable for their behavior - we get it"
What does this comment have to do with the topic? But since you brought it up, Are men held accountable for their extreme sex behavior? Women don't do this by themselves? What about the men who engage them? What do you call men who run trains, have wild sex parties and whatnot?
"What do you call men who run trains, have wild sex parties and whatnot?"
They're called alpha male bad boys that hoards of stupid women lust after.
No, guys that behave in the manners you mentioned are not "bad boys that women lust after" at all. Women are afraid of those guys. What you are describing are sociopaths and violent criminals. There is a huge difference
What does this comment have to do with the topic? But since you brought it up, Are men held accountable for their extreme sex behavior? Women don't do this by themselves? What about the men who engage them? What do you call men who run trains, have wild sex parties and whatnot?
LOL apparently you call them guys with "A little thug in them". This whole article was a good example of the female double standards in action.
Women only go for ex-cons and murderers, not nice guys.
@ Steve J Coran,
A guy who says something like this is so obviously not a 'nice' guy because he wouldn't be saying making this not so 'nice' comment about 'what women go for in general. He obviously hasn't met any nice girls then.
@Raz
A girl who says something like this is so not a "nice" girl because she wouldn't be making this not so "nice" comment.
Although I feel sympathy for all of the nice guys out there that wonder why they stay single (and that includes myself, admittedly), we have to keep in mind that women are human, too. They make mistakes. They get confused about exactly what they want just like men do. They make poor financial, educational, and health choices just like men do. Relationships and sex are no exception to this.
I read somewhere that the 'nice guy' is looked at like a salad, and the 'thug' is looked at like cake. Which would you rather eat? Although the salad is healthier, the cake tastes better (even if it makes you fat). Although the nice guy may be a good father and husband (and hit-or-miss in the sack), the 'thug' gives short-term satisfaction (and may be a crappy father and husband).
For the person that said that there's a double-standard...well...there is. There's a double-standard for food, too. We know what's healthy, but we eat what tastes good, even if it'll give us a stroke later in life..
These so called nice guys think it is an either or. That women either go for straight up boyz in the hood thugs and bypass the nice guy urkel type. This is a myth. Most women would prefer to go for a nice guy (with an edge) but most so called nice guys stand on the side lines and expect a woman to come up to them. Most lack the balls to go up to a woman of interest because they are too scurred. The so called thugs have charisma, they at least will approach while nice guys expect women to approach them because they are well...nice. Women are attracted to men who exude confidence, assertiveness, who they find physically appealing and charasmatic. Most nice guys lack those things. They are too scurred of rejection from a woman so they talk themselves out of approaching a woman, then sit back and talk bad about how women go for the thugs. Well if nice guys want women, go after them. Nobody cares that they are nice, if they are too scurred to approach a woman.
I wouldn't worry most of those ladies who date the thugs and the playas in up getting HIV or Aids because most of those dudes have that.
Take a good look at all these comments ladies and learn something. Average man these days really does not see much value in women besides for sex. Average man definitely considers average woman shallow and without any kind of honor system, let alone any strong decision making skills. Then after reading, ask yourselves why, and *gasp* maybe realize you should take some responsibility for the state of the dating universe out there. You chase after garbage, then wonder why the non-garbage won't bother to "have the confidence to come over and flirt." It has nothing to do with confidence, a very large number of men(the good men you are looking for) are just fed up with women not having a clue how to behave like they ever learned any manners at all, and don't bother wasting their time talking to, as a gentleman above put it, "female children in adult bodies."
Ladies, take a note from men, knights and samurais. Adopt a code of honor. It's your best bet for ever being respected again
I wouldn't ever be persuaded to "take responsibility for the state of the dating universe out there". How absurd. I'm responsible for myself. That's it.
Blame Rockefeller because they funded feminism.
I do think that this article is a little over the top on women power and is kind of snobby. It makes it sound like ALL women are like this. I'm a women in my thirties. I don't like the look of thug gear and I like nice guys. I do agree with some of the men's comments on that women are kind of too slutty. My mom would agree with this. Long ago young women were not allowed to were shorts and tight clothing in her village. Look at some of the reality shows on TV, such as Jersey Shore, those women are out of hand. When I read this article I thought it reminded me of those girls in the TV show, which I turn off after five minutes.
I never go for guys at either extreme. When I think of good guys that are "too nice"...the picture I get in my head is: simple. That's the problem. They are the ones that think in black-and-white and put "nice" girls on pedestals where we'll never be allowed to make mistakes. What a burden! Bad guys at the other extreme...too complex and lacking values. Guys in the gray area (nice guys who are not wimps, with a sense of humor and who are not simple-minded) are really the best choice for a mate, best friend, companion.
I just think its HOTT!!!!!!!!!! bad boys are a turn on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They're all yours......Have fun!!!
Disclaimer - No whining, complaining, or blaming all men when:
1. You get backhanded by your bad boy(s).
2. You get given an STD by your bad boy(s).
3. You get knocked-up and dumped by your bad boy(s).
4. Etc., etc., etc.
When I was younger, I loved the bad boys but I ended up paying the price. Now I love nice guys. I really, really, really appreciate them and love them. However, it should be understood that some "nice" guys aren't really nice but passive aggressive. They think they are nice but they are not really nice. Also, there are other qualities besides "nice" that make a man attractive overall. I want a truly kind man who knows himself and respects himself. I work hard to be kind and expect the same in return.
Who knew I was a backhand away from plowing any girl I wanted.
ESTE ES UN PROBLEMA MUNDIAL PRODUCTO DEL DESCENSO DE VALORES MORALES
THIS IS A WORLDWIDE PROBLEM CAUSED BY DECREASING ON VALUES
these women are losers, and could not handle having a good guy to be with.
These are the girls that end up beaten ,abused and left alone pregnent! I laugh at these types of women walking around pregnent and depressed especially when the bad boy leaves them for a good girl.
Well...........Ladies be happy with your thugs / bad guys. Us nice guys are headed to Eastern Europe.
We are sick of your shit!
Takes a man to look out for his family wonder how many "bad guys can do that when faced with responsibility?
I knew a good guy who was killed trying to save a woman a beating from her bad guy.
The bad guy got life she cried not for the victim but for the bad guy who she would never see walk free.
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