Students meditating during quiet time
President Barack Obama is pushing hard for health care reform. Some people feel it's a bad idea. Personally, I feel that the only real health care reform is one that would put emphasis on prevention and alternative methods that work. Too much emphasis is being placed on drugs and disease care. One such alternative method is meditation, particularly Transcendental Meditation, which is an alternative to Ritalin for students diagnosed with ADHD.
I spoke recently with Denice Gerace, a TM teacher in Tucson, who teaches TM to students at schools in the Tucson Unified School District, about her program.
Q. How much do the schools have to pay for the program?
A. Nothing, because it was funded by a grant from the David Lynch Foundation.
Q. But still the cost per student is $800, about half the cost of the regular initiation fee. Do you think the cost will be lowered further considering these difficult economic times so that the funds the foundation receives can go for more student initiations?
A. I don't think so. We are a non-profit organization, so all our fees go into supporting our programs. The initiation fee pays for more than my salary. It's used for things like the day-to-day expenses of running the program, office space, classroom space, coordination with regional and national offices, and for research. Keep in mind that students have free checkups for life. They can walk into any TM center in the world to have their meditation checked.
Q. Speaking of research, have there been any recent studies on TM in schools?
A. Yes. A paper was presented at a recent meeting of the Society of Behavioral Medicine in San Diego. It found that teens practicing TM had less hyperactivity and stress. Other studies show that TM helps students with ADHD, and the GPA of TM students in a San Fransisco Middle School was half a point higher. It's too early to say anything about the GPA of students in Tucson.
Q. What about anecdotal results? What feedback have you gotten from students, teachers and parents?
A. The students appreciate the chance to be quiet. One girl, who is among the best students in the district, went from having to spend five hours to write a good paper to one and a half hours. Students with ADHD were able to sit still and pay attention and appreciate the subject and teacher. One student went from getting Ds and Fs in science to Bs and As. Teachers are happy with the program because students don't act out. Some went from unmanageable to well-behaved. Parents find that their child isn't rebelling, does chores, and has a better relationship with them. One parent called a school to make sure the program would continue next school year.
Q. Have you taught teachers and administrators?
A. Quite a few teachers and administrators learned. They said it helped a lot with the stress of this year's budget cuts. Also, some teachers with health problems, such as sleep apnea, diabetes, and high blood pressure experienced significant improvement.
Q. Is the program voluntary?
A. All students have a 15-minute quiet time, but they can choose what to do during that time. TM is one of the choices. They can also read or engage in silent prayer.
Q. What exactly do you do in the program?
A. I instruct the students, provide additional information, and once a month I give students an opportunity to have their meditation checked and talk about their experiences.
Q. Do you present the TM-Siddhi program, ayurveda, and videos of Maharishi.
A. We don't talk about the TM-Siddhi program or ayurveda and most students probably wouldn't pay attention to a video of a talking head for more than half a minute. But if high school students want to form a TM club and watch videos of Maharishi after school, that would be great.
Q. What do you say to critics who insist that TM is a religion and doesn't belong in public schools?
A. Our culture is gradually accepting the fact that other cultures have something of value to offer. There is a huge body of scientific documentation on the benefits of TM. It is not from the Hindu religion but from the Vedic tradition of knowledge, similar to the West's scientific tradition.
Q. But how do you explain the puja to school administrators?
A. It's a one time thing. Also, we explain that TM is more effective than other meditation techniques because it is taught precisely just as it was thousands of years ago, and we honor the lineage of past teachers with the puja. It's not a religious ceremony but a ceremony that honors the teachers.
Q. Why can't someone learn TM from a CD?
A. Each person learns at his or her own pace. What may be difficult to understand and apply for one person may be easy for another and vice versa. TM teachers are highly trained professionals and will know how to guide each person through the learning process.
Q. How can people contact you?
A. My email address is dgerace@tm.org and my phone number is 520-881-0110.
Comments
It's a shame to see TM going into schools for a number of reasons: it's overpriced to begin with, while other, more effective meditations with long histories are quite inexpensive and are backed by legitimate science. But most disturbing is the fact that most quit because of side-effects and none of their research is what is generally considered viable within the scientific community. They have a long history of deception, exaggeration and outright pseudoscience.
When someone is interested in bringing TM Hindu goddess meditation to your school, the keywords should be "caveat emptor". They're are NOT what they present themselves as!
Hi Wayne,
I was kind of hoping you'd be able to track down someone other than a TM organization rep to talk about whatever was going down in Tuscon. I've heard very little about these school programs other than the publicity generated by the TMO; next to nothing from the school districts, administrators or teachers themselves.
As usual, if this is such a big deal - to listen to the TMO, you'd think TM was as safe, effective, studied and accepted as aspirin - I'd expect to hear an enormous chorus of support for these programs from the school end, not just a few hand-picked talking heads. We're forty or fifty years into watching this dog-and-pony show, and I still haven't found a real dog and pony in there somewhere.
It's also worth pointing out that Denise, the Maharishi University faculty member who you talked with, is also known as Denise Denniston, the co-author of "The TM Book" which dates back to 1970. Are there any young people promoting TM today?
I also find it interesting that in an informal conversation with a longtime TM teacher the list of benefits from TM magically inflates. Here, "sleep apnea" somehow got added to the list of things fixed by TM. There is, of course, no scientific research to support this, and as far as I know even the organization doesn't claim this. Besides, a (proven safe and effective) CPAP machine is quite a bit cheaper than TM initiation.
Likewise, I can't find a source for this alleged study involving the University of Connecticut on meditating students. Sounds like a poster presented at a convention, which is about as preliminary and non-authoritative as anything gets in science. Again, after over forty years, including a period where TM was popular among students who could have been studied (and in some cases in fact were), why is this all you can come up with when talking to a reporter and presumably putting your best stuff forward?
It's hysterical, archaic, witch-hunt mentality to bash TM as "goddess worship" or "pseudoscience," not to mention absurd & hilarious. The "Pall" post was obviously written by one of those fanatical anti-TM activists who, few in number, are very vocal & spread misinformation simply because they believe that TM threatens their belief system. But they misunderstand TM. In recent years, the AMA has sent press releases worldwide publicizing TM's scientifically proven health benefits. The American Heart Association regularly publishes research on TM. The NIH has awarded over $24 million for independent scientists to study TM's effects on brain development & cardiovascular health. The leading medical & science journals continue their 40-year tradition of publishing peer-reviewed studies on TM, including randomized controlled trials and meta-analyses. All of the independent, well-controlled, high-caliber research shows that TM has only positive effects and zero negative side-effects. TM=COOL.
Er, "Choir Boy," I can't speak for Tom but I don't think TM is all that much of a threat. But there is the principle of separation of church and state and how that applies to public schools, certainly here in this country, and I think that should be defended.
One of my favorite recent TM videos can be found at maharishichannel.in, in the archive, dated 9 April of this year. This is video produced by the TMO on the occasion of Hanuman Jayanti, celebrated in India to commemorate the birth of Hanuman, the monkey god. Now TM devotees like Denise above will quibble over whether what they're doing is "Hindu" or "Vedic" in nature, but pretty much everything in that video is clearly religious in nature, and the TM organization's attempt to cast these things as somehow "scientific" is simply laughable.
I encourage people curious about TM to download and view this video. I think there's a clear truth in labeling sort of issue here.
I'm not aware of any other organization besides the Transcendental Meditation Org that makes a distinction between "Hindu" and "Vedic." The Vedic period is simply the oldest period of Hinduism, much as First-Century Christianity is the oldest form of that religion.
"Hindu" is really an English word. Indians refer to both the Vedas and later texts as belonging to "Santanadharma" -- the eternal truth or religion.
The Vedas are largely collections of hymns of prayer and supplication to Gods such as Indra, Agni, and others. It seems proponents refer to TM as "Vedic" merely to confuse Westerners who may not be familiar with the history of Hinduism.
Whether you label the religious ceremony of TM as "Vedic" or "Hindu," its stated purpose is to offer obeisance to supernatural figures such as Shiva, Shakti, Brahma, Vishnu -- and the Maharishi's dead teacher.
By anyone's definition it is religious and does not belong in public schools -- whether it's performed just once or hourly
I agree with the author that it would be good to get some local people to comment about experiences with the Transcendental Meditation program in schools. I do not live in Arizona, but I am an educator who has worked with students who practice the TM technique. There is a remarkable, positive difference in their degree of alertness and attitude toward life.
I have also read many moving accounts of the success of the TM program in inner city schools. How could anyone argue with stories about students feeling there is now hope for their lives?
I practice the TM program. It is not a religion; it's a technique, and it works.
@Mike Dough-nut:
If TM is as ineffectual as you would have us believe, then why are you so obsessed with opposing it? Don't you have anything better to do? If TM was really no good, then it would go away of its own accord, but after 50 years it is still going strong. I suspect you have some personal grudge against TM, or you are one of those people who always has to find something external to blame for your problems. I suggest you find a life for yourself beyond your obsessive opposition to meditation.
Hi, I don't live in Tucson but your conversation came up in my Google alert. I practice Transcendental Meditation (TM) and am interested in getting accurate info out in the public because it has benefited me so much.
Firstly, the reference to improving sleep apnea was in answer to the interviewer's question about anecdotal experiences reported by the school teachers who learned TM. She wasn't claiming scientific data.
Secondly, the church and state issue is a political philosophy aimed at preventing the government from imposing a state religion and protecting personal freedom to practice a religion. TM doesn't require any religious observance or beliefs. The students, parents and teachers have the option to learn TM. There is no tax payer money used to support the program.
The fact that Einstein was Jewish does not mean that e=MC squared is a Zionist plot.
Anyone who really understands Indian culture would know that there IS NO RELIGION in India. India just doesn't fit nicely into the nice Western categories of religious versus non religious. Religion is for people who are seeking God. That's not what India is about. It's about enlightenment, full realization of the individual. And if you are fully enlightened and God happens to show up, so much the better. Even what we call Hindu "gods" are really just representations of principles in nature. It's comforting to have a physical representation or embodiment of the principle, but these representations are as if analogies to explain the whole thing to the unsophisticated, or to children.
The Transcendental Meditation program is not taught in religious terms, but it could be, of course, just as it could be discussed in mathematical, scientific or artistic terms. From a religious perspective, TM fits right up there with taking care of your body and having a clean lifestyle so that you can appreciate God more. A truly clear and alert person is more likely to see the grandeur of God's creation. And I kind of think that such a person is just the sort of fellow (or gal) that God would be more likely to bless with happiness. After all, if you are rested and alert you are probably living more in tune with natural law, and who's behind all that?
The fact that anything on the planet can be painted as horrible. Even Jesus Christ had his detractors, who accused him of wanting to overthrow the Romans, among other things.
So, you can't escape the critics, because they are everywhere. But don't let the people kicking the tires keep you from getting onto this beautiful ride...
Don: I think the ineffectualness of TM is already well known. Almost a million people were instructed in TM in the U.S. during the 1970's, and as many former TM teachers will admit, most gave it up after a short time. I was initiated on the last day of 1977 - and within a few years many local centers closed and TM pretty much went into hiding, where it's stayed except for an odd bit of news now and then.
Perhaps I'll address the perennial points you and others raise against critics at length at the TM-Free Blog. But I hold no personal grudge about this. As I've done with numerous other subjects, not just TM, this is a matter of getting independent information about TM out there, as I have for over 15 years, in the face of the TMO's inability to accurately describe what it's offering (many other products, mostly quackery with zero scientific backing) and what its goals are, which generally involve growing and sustaining what's at its core is a particular Hindu/Vedic sect.
I think this is a beautiful program. All the costs covered by scholarships from the TM group and that movie star foundation. Most schools would jump at the chance to have a program already researched that shows it helps kids to learn, increases IQ and calms them down. Its voluntary, the principal, the parents and students all give consent. In a country full of violence, drug use and young adults that can't name George Bush's vice president or the capital of Brazil, this program is a breathe of fresh air. Forget your petty philosophical objections to a 10 minute ceremony of incense and flowers. I've seen stranger ceremonies at frat houses, military schools and football parties. It works and the school wants it. So back off and let em be.
Hi Paul (who's yet another operator of a TM center),
You say, "what we call Hindu "gods" are really just representations of principles in nature." Sorry, but I think the odds of avoiding outright laughter at that one are pretty small. Despite the obvious differences between Hindu/Vedic practice and thought and what we're used to calling "religion" here in the West, there is nothing to support this semantic substitution that the TM organization has been attempting for the last few decades. It quacks like a duck, it's still a duck. Or should I say, if it's flying like that monkey god I pointed everyone to downthread, it's still a monkey god.
Personification of aspects of nature is one of the things religion does - not science - and you agree that's what the TM organization is doing. Then, why maintain that what the TMO is doing is not a religion? What purpose does that serve, except perhaps permanent cognitive dissonance?
Anybody here from Tuscon? Anybody? Anybody?
Or even Arizona, for that matter.
I see Cedar Rapids is in the house!
How 'bout Fairfield?
As I already reported elsewhere, a team of TM teachers has been tasked with getting on threads like these and spouting all the usual TM marketing soundbites that I've heard for decades:
tmfree.blogspot.com/2009/07/welcome-to-world-of-tm-blogging.html
Looks like they're hard at work, capitalizing on the fear and loathing of the "blackboard jungle" to push TM into schools.
As for Eddie, yes, I think separation of church and state is not a "petty philosophical objection" to religious supremacy and control of the state, whether that proposed interference be Christian or Vedic in nature. You wanna market TM, perhaps you should pick on some rubes more your own size, and not school kids.
My misspelling of Tucson was unintentionally ironic; I'm on the opposite coast.
A little Googling places previous commenter Ondine Constable in Asheville, NC, quoted on the website of the TM center there, the same one run by Tom Ball who has a starring role in my piece about TM teachers attempting to flood comment threads like this one.
Two Asheville TM websites appear on her Blogger profile.
Even her non-TM blog features Nancy Lonsdorf and Maharishi Ayurveda, another set of products sold by the same syndicate that sells TM.
It's obvious to me that most if not all commenters praising TM on these threads have a close relationship with the organization that sells it. For an outfit that's supposedly healthy, growing and has initiated what must be more than a million North Americans into its flagship program over the past few decades - what happened to all those people?
It looks like most of them quit, and now they're down to recruiting schoolchildren to stay alive.
So what's wrong with a benevolent religion, anyway? Is it dangerous just because it might be different from yours? Are you afraid it will be apposed to the Christianity that fuels wars in our present day religious wars? TM hasn't done any harm to anyone, no matter what it is called. If your religion doesn't give you the experience of God, or for that matter doesn't give you the ability to think, abandon your religion. Taking a vitamin for a few days doesn't help anyone, and neither does practicing TM for a few days or weeks. After fifty years of growth, many of those who practice the TM technique are having experiences of God in their meditation. It's their direct experience and no one can argue with it.
sorry, it should be "opposed"
I am delighted to see Transcendental Meditation going into schools. I was diagnosed as being hyperactive as a child and was given Transcendental Meditation instead of drugs like Ritalin. It worked, it worked, I was able to focus, and by age 22 I was president and part owner of a software company.
There should not be any worry that TM is a religion. It's not and was never intended to be. To say so would be like saying Karate is a religion!?
TM is a relaxation technique that reduces stress and improves your daily functioning. TM is not part of Hinduism, most Hindu's don't even know what Transcendental Meditation is! TM requires no belief system, and many Christians actually have reported that it helped them stay rested and make better decisions.
I am spending the time to write this because I don't want to see something that could help the worlds youth get over looked. Transcendental Meditation helped me to stay off ADHD drugs, and so I want to spread the word.
Hi, Gerry,
But that's exactly the point. TM IS religious. End of story. Thanks for admitting as much.
TM does conflict with other religions -- which is why the Founders of the US experiment in democracy wisely said religion had no place in government. No matter how "benign."
Roman Catholic cardinals, Jewish rabbis & scholars, conservative Christians have all stated TM is not compatible with their religions. And in America, they have the right to say that TM's obvious religious & non-scientific beliefs should not be taught to their children. For example, see bit.ly/44R5Cl .
Would TMers be fine with Scientology teaching relaxation techniques -- based on untested religious beliefs -- to TM children?
I practice daily meditation, yoga, and prayer. I am most comfortable in the great Buddhist/Hindu traditions. But I wouldn't dream of forcing my beliefs on a public school children.
J.
This is a great article excellent questions and answers. I hope to see more Transcendental Meditation in schools.
I did a little research after reading the article and was amazed to see how much research there now is on The Transcendental Meditation Program.
Its really good to see a purely positive influence for young people. There are some many negative influence from media, like violent video games and movies, that to now have something like positive Transcendental Meditation is a really welcome change. Perhaps TM will get rid of all the impressions left by all the fist person shooter video games.
Hi, Johnny,
I did not say TM was a religion; I implied that there would be no harm if it were a religion since it helps so many people. Religions require belief; TM does not. LIke any other technique, it works even if you believe it won't. Religious leaders have no reason to decry it, since people of all religions practice it without changing their religion. I know many who have not. So far as "forcing beliefs on public school children" goes, as the article clearly states, their quiet time involves other options, some reading, some praying. The children cannot learn the technique without choosing to do so, and the parents must approve. It cannot be otherwise. If schools can teach a technique for speed reading to improve grades, there is no reason not to teach a technique for creating brain wave coherence to improve grades. If eating spinach improves health enough to provide a spiritual experience, there is no reason why mental techniques should not be used for the same purpose.
I just finished practicing Transcendental Meditation, I was feeling tired, but now I am feeling rested, refreshed, and more peaceful. I off to play football (soccer in USA speak), with more energy, and NO pills.
TM rocks. You learn it, you close your eyes for 15 or 20 mins and practice it twice a day and you feel GREAT for hours afterward! Period. Really simple.
And oh ya, its worth every dollar you pay for it and every minute you log enjoying it. :)
I step away from this thing for an evening, and even more of the TM astroturfing tag-team shows up. A little Googling, and:
"Kim Sinton 1995 graduating class of Maharishi High School" and also completed courses at Maharishi University. Her resume appears on the site of a web consulting firm in... you guessed it... Fairfield, Iowa, US headquarters of the TM organization. She might not be a teacher of TM, but she can sure drop soundbites like one.
Gerard Owmby: Another recertified teacher of TM, holds another one of those MERU PhD degrees in "World Peace" from the desk in the TM movement's hotel in Switzerland, you already know the drill... and learned TM in March, 1969. Now lives in Tennessee.
Anybody willing to post here who learned TM after 1980, who isn't obviously second generation like Kim? Anybody?
Anybody in Tucson? Arizona? Anybody?
*crickets*
Gerard says, "Religions require belief; TM does not." I disagree; again, this is a (re)definition of the word "religion" that serves the goals of those who promote TM. In fact, other traditions, like that which TM comes from, require *practice* and not necessarily belief.
The whole point of the Vedic sect that sells TM and over fifty other products is to get people to practice certain things that they believe are described in the Vedas, and thus bring about "Satya Yuga," the "Heaven on Earth" utopia sort of outcome which a number of diverse religions hold is the result of mass adherence to their traditions. In this case, no belief is required - but (among many other things) they want everyone to live in cities and buildings built like Vedic temples to bring this about.
TM is just the first of many practices that are obviously Vedic in nature that the TM organization sells today. The problem is their unwillingness to properly label these products for what they are.
To further document what I wrote in my last comment - that the whole point of the TM organization is the creation of "Heaven on Earth" by getting the masses to buy their Vedic-based products - I encourage you to visit the TM category at Wikileaks, at wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:Transcendental_Meditation and download the "Governors Resolution 18 April 2005" where this paragraph describes what the whole point of being a "Recertified Governor" (teacher of TM, in the toy-government language of the TMO) is:
"Having undergone this recertification program I will take all these steps so that... my city will welcome the descent of Heaven on Earth — the descent of Satya Yuga saying bye-bye to Kali Yuga."
That doesn't sound very scientific to me. If anything, it sounds like the kind of thing the members of a run-of-the-mill Millenarian cult would be saying.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millenarianism
TM works, many practice it with great results.
To Mike Doughney: I have practiced the TM technique for many years. Having learned it and benefited from it, I might be more qualified to say what it is than you. Over 600 scientific studies, most published in peer-review journals, verify the good results of the practice of TM. Those are independent studies. The MERU Ph.D. is an award from Maharishi to those who studied with him for over forty years. No one with a Ph.D. in physics and no one who has won the Nobel Peace Prize has that kind of knowledge. It's a changing world we live in now, and some people resist new things they don't understand. The troubled children who are now practicing TM in the schools are being transformed into ideal students -- that's inarguable. You are fighting it with prejudice and ignorance.
Allen: I was initiated into TM on December 31, 1977 and practiced it fairly regularly for about ten years. I stopped when I realized it was providing me no particular benefit at all - like most people who learned TM at some point and then stopped.
So if the MERU PhD is just an award from the TM movement for one thing or another, I've got two of those "Maharishi Awards" with my name on them, one of them even has a big gold seal and a blue ribbon on it. Just a piece of paper with a lot of words on it, not recognized by anybody outside the movement as having any meaning or conferring any particular status - just like that MERU PhD.
Your claim to special knowledge about the universe just because you've been around some guy claiming authority from an ancient holy book sure sounds like the kind of thing a religion would claim. It's laughable to try to put that kind of thing in scientific terms, or that that experience is more important than a PhD in physics.
I don't do TM, but since reading about it, I'm going to learn it and have my children learn it, especially after reading this article. What a shame the closed-minded, right-wing Christian fanatics like Mike Doughney are so bent on destruction. Like his psychotic friends on Fox news, they'll never get it.
Allen says: "Over 600 scientific studies..."
Tom Ball in his "30 Blogging Tips" for TM bloggers says: "...it may be better not to proclaim “there are over 600 scientific research studies,” because not all of the 600-and-some studies were published in peer-reviewed journals — it’s indefensible to say that all 600 reflect the highest caliber of research."
So the backpedaling has begun!
Meanwhile, there is no significant research supporting any benefit of putting TM into schools. A survey of ten middle-school students who learned TM in a highly charged environment with admins, teachers, a number of researchers and the financier of the study all being meditators doesn't count for anything.
Even internally, TM teachers know the studies are deficient but that's OK to them, since they still attract the media. From Wikileaks: "Sarina’s (recent ADHD) research study only had 10 subjects, yet garnered lots of press."
In the field of science, 600 studies on one subject is nothing.
It's always fascinating to watch the supporters of TM go into fits of rage against critics like me, after awhile they start spewing the same outrageous falsehoods I've heard for decades.
Like this one: "the closed-minded, right-wing Christian fanatics like Mike Doughney"
I am not a Christian, and a brief Googling of my name would reveal that I've actively worked against (in physical space, not just online) those same people you might call "right-wing Christian fanatics."
I work with the documented facts, you call me ignorant.
I show you I'm not a Christian fanatic, and inevitably someone shows up and again insists... that I'm a Christian fanatic.
I generally don't agree with Christian critiques of TM either.
"Beli Rubb" claims not to practice TM, but I'm sure in a few years, if he follows through on his alleged intention, he'll fit in quite well with the rest of you.
To Gerry and Allen,
To be clear, I am not a Christian. In fact, I was initiated into TM at age 18 and practiced it for 23 years. The Maharishi Mahesh Yogi personally made me a teacher in 1978. I even learned the advanced techniques the Maharishi told me would allow me to "fly."
I became a critic of TM in 1995 when I could no longer live with the lies the Movement asked me to tell my family, friends, and the public.
I feel I know a great deal about the side-effects of TM and the inner workings of the TM org.
The TM Org teaches many beliefs that have not been -- and cannot be -- tested by science: Any child learning TM, even in public schools, will be taught that only TM’s mantras give benefits. That “coherent brain waves” predict moral character. That humans can levitate. That an “enlightened man” can’t make mistakes.
And that's just stuff taught in the first 3 days!
Do you guys believe you can fly?
Do you believe you are enlightened?
Can you define enlightenm
Mr. Doughney: Your comments contain many errors. There has been more research on the TM technique than for any method of self-improvement in the history of social science. Contrary to your assertions, most of the studies were published under the most respected peer-review in journals -- Science, JAMA, and many others. You should spend more time researching the studies than researching the bios of the posters. And who needs scientific research to determine if the students are benefiting anyway? Just look at how they have changed. Talk to them and to their teachers. If there were no results, the program would not be growing so rapidly in other schools one after another. The teachers are saying it is the only program that has worked in schools, and they have tried everything else. Scientific studies or not, the technique works, and with extended practice, the proof is in the pudding. Your arguments are petty and insubstantial. And yes, I practice the technique!
Gerry (who attended Maharishi U in the 70's): I've seen nothing to indicate that the TM program is growing rapidly in schools. Likewise, the assertion that no other method of self-improvement has been as well researched is pretty much impossible to verify, since few such methods have been pushed by an organization insistent upon using the veneer of scientific validity to push its product continuously for many decades.
There's also the fact that all the rest of the programs sold by the TM organization - generally, quackery like "yogic flying," astrology, "pulse diagnosis" and the like - have absolutely zero scientific research that even hints of their validity. I find it interesting that only the flagship product gets all the "scientific" attention.
You're also ignoring the obvious explanation for benefits - the placebo effect. That's why long-term scientific research - lots of it, not just a few decades of preliminary studies - is necessary to confirm any such claims.
John, Maharishi told us, "The progress can be slow and slow and slow, and then it's very fast." You need ayurveda to help your meditation; that's the reason it was discovered in the first place, to develop the body to help the meditation. Don't eat poison. Yes, I have had glimpses of enlightenment, and the experiences are becoming more frequent. Come join us. "Flying" is just an expression used when you bounce off the ground from the rush of energy. And if I tell you I "flew" from Dallas from L.A. yesterday, please don't take me literally. History is filled with records of people who levitated, and now scientists are creating anti-gravity in labs. It's only a matter of time until levitation is perfected through both mind and machines. All new discoveries are blasted at first, from Galileo onward. Who would have believed two hundred years ago we would one day fly in a jet, cut steel with lasers, or manipulate atoms and genes -- or leap off the ground from blasts of energy?
Mike,
I am a guy, innocent mistake I know, but I just wanted to clarify!
Yes I grew up practicing Transcendental Meditation in school. That's one reason why I feel that I have a place making so many comments here, because I am speaking from direct experience.
I have practiced Transcendental Meditation my entire life and it has helped me tremendously. It helped me overcome ADHD, to be calmer and to be nicer to people.
After 28 years practicing TM I have nothing bad to say about the technique, I ave not once had a bad experience. I never felt like TM was a religion either. My parents are TM teachers but they still took us to church. TM was just another way to be a better christian.
I don't want to see the youth of the world being given ADHD drugs! I didn't have to because of my parents and because of TM and I am really grateful to TM for that.
Mike, you aren't doing enough investigation. The research is there, you'll just have to hunt. You say, "sell a product", but it's a non-profit organization just trying to help people. There is no hidden agenda. I started TM when there was no research. Who needs it? It works. Jyotish is not astrology, and pulse diagnosis works, too. I have seen early diagnosis with it that MDs could not have accomplished. Hey, they take your pulse, too. But there's no sense arguing with the insane. By the way, there's no "Gerry" on this forum.
Hey, Mike Dougnut! What is your problem???
Regarding research on Transcendental Meditation. Not every study on TM has followed perfect research methods, it's true, but... many of the recent studies on Transcendental Meditation have been extremely rigorous. They have used control groups taking placebo, randomized subject selection etc. These studies (there are many of them), have been published in leading peer reviewed journals, and Tm has been accepted by the medical community as a proven treatment for conditions like high blood pressure.
The research on TM is better than the research on most drugs.
Mike Doughney, you shouldn't talk about things you know nothing about. You might deprive someone the benefits so many have gained. Bad karma!
I learned Transcendental Meditation 37 years ago and it changed my life. Before TM I found it difficult to concentrate. I had benefits from day one. I felt more relaxed and found that my mind was much clearer and that I could easily focus. I also found that I was appreciating life and people more and that I was much happier. Over the years the benefits just keep growing and I find that I am feeling clear, energetic and happy almost all the time. I cant say enough about the benefits of Transcendental Meditation and I wish everyone would practice the technique and then we would have a peaceful, happy world.
Mike Doughney -- The Maharishi Award can be given from the faculty of Maharishi's university to anyone -- even non-meditators. The Ph.D. in World Peace is Maharishi's award to TM teachers who have learned from him for forty years and who continue to teach TM and to learn from him. They are different awards. I am more honored to have Maharishi's Ph.D. award than I would a Ph.D. from Harvard or Yale considering what I learned from Maharishi. It doesn't matter to me if anyone recognizes it. It's not a degree for getting a job. He gave me knowledge even the greatest scientists still don't understand -- how to create peace in individuals and in the entire world. Books? Maharishi learned nothing from books. His knowledge comes from his experience given to him from the ancient tradition of enlightened teachers, and he has given that experience only to those who are ready to hear it. How sad for you.
Weird that these two guys Mike Doughney and John Knapp spend so much time arguing with everyone here. Who are they? They spend a lot of time criticizing many here about not being from Tucson. Are they from Tucson?
Interesting that both practiced TM for 20+ years before they finally decided that it didn't do anything for them. What took them so long? Why would anyone do something for 20 years and then decide it was bad or worthless?
And why do they now spend so much of their time on this and other forums arguing with a bunch of people who have all had great results, saying that TM is bad or worthless, and that the thousands of people who teach TM are decptive or deluded, and that all the people who practice it are deluded, even though there are hundreds of science studies showing really powerful results.
Then they look up everyone's name here who they are arguing with, like detectives trying to uncover some secret, and find that many here may have enjoyed TM for a long time.
Robert,
There is no question that the Maharishi repeatedly stated that his flying technique would actually allow humans to levitate and achieve "passage through the skies." Anyone who is interested can see facsimiles of the ads he used to sell what he termed the "TM-Sidhi Program."
Check them out at trancenet.net/secrets/sutras/ads.shtml , where you will find a series of 8 ads from the TM Org that do promise the development of "supernormal abilities," including "levitating the body at will," "invisibility," and "supernormal sight and hearing." (To see all 8 ads, just click the red arrows at the top of the page to advance.)
Can you fly? Can you turn invisible? Are your senses "supernormal"?
If not, is there something wrong with your practice or level of attainment that keeps you from achieving these miracles?
Do you know ONE individual who has achieved these powers?
J.
So, many here might be wondering, who are THEY??
An internet search reveals that they have been working togther for at least 15 years, doing this SAME arguing, trying to convince people that TM is bad (copy and paste the following tiny.cc urls into your browser): tiny.cc/History_DoughneyKnapp
and on John Knapp's website (one of them anyway)he gives credit to Mike Doughney as his mentor on the topic of "cult education":
tiny.cc/Mentor_Doughney_knapp
Which as it turns out is how John Knapp apparently makes his living: tiny.cc/KnappsBusiness
He makes posts all over the internet like this as others have pointed out:
tiny.cc/KnappDescribed2nappDescribed1
tiny.cc/KnappDescribed2nappDescribed_2
and who is mike doughney? this came up:
tiny.cc/WhoISDoughney
as well as this interesting legal judgement: tiny.cc/DoughneyLegalJudgement
Just in the sake of fuller disclosure
Justin,
Just a small correction: I have not asked anyone here whether they are from Tucson -- or Timbuktu. Neither have I looked up anyone's name and discussed their backgrounds.
I am a licensed therapist in New York. In the last 15 years, I have worked with over 1,500 former members of Transcendental Meditation who felt they had a cultic relationship with the TM Org. A large number of these people have reported initial good results from TM but that they experienced serious side-effects after practicing for some time.
For a list of reported side-effects, interested readers can point their browsers to knappfamilycounseling.com/tmdangers.html . For a qualitative study done in Germany that also found many of these side-effects among former TMers, check out trancenet.net/research/toc.shtml .
J.
Yes John, we can all see clearly why you are here and elsewhere
and though often working together, you are different from Mike Doughney, and likely have not been as financially lucky as he has, so you show up wherever TM is mentioned trying to sell your services
tiny.cc/History_DoughneyKnapp
tiny.cc/Mentor_Doughney_knapp
tiny.cc/KnappsBusiness
tiny.cc/KnappDescribed2nappDescribed1
tiny.cc/KnappDescribed2nappDescribed_2
tiny.cc/WhoISDoughney
tiny.cc/DoughneyLegalJudgement
Justin: I think your allegations about me "working together" with John Knapp "for at least 15 years" are rather fevered and out of touch with the rather mundane reality of the situation. In fact, I've said nearly nothing regarding TM, outside of an occasional newsgroup post, for most of the past dozen years, after a burst of activity around 1995 which included creation of the minet.org website.
Other interests have consumed my attention during that intervening time, as any casual search on Google would show.
Recent attempts by the TM organization to again insert itself into public schools, as well as the odd nostalgia-based attempts to regain public attention for the TM program, have among other things drawn my attention back to the subject.
I'd suggest you all read my recent writings at the TM-Free blog before you go putting words in my mouth. I don't recall having called TM "bad" or "worthless," only that it doesn't live up to the grandiose claims made for it.
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