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Most of you have heard by now about the birthers. They are those who believe President Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii or for that matter anywhere else in United States. Some of you may also know that I have posted several articles about the birthers.
The birthers have intrigued me so much so, that I am writing an objective book about the birther movement.
So when I came across this new poll from Public Policy Polling that was done on August 4th through August 10th I was most intrigued. The poll surveyed 749 North Carolina residents on an array of subjects. One subject that I found to be most interesting as it is related to the birthers.
A whooping 46% of people polled did not believe Obama was born in the U.S. It breaks down like this, 26% said no they don't believe he was born in the U.S. The other 20% said they just were not sure.
But the fact that 46% believe he was not born in the U.S. is not the interesting part. The interesting part came from the next question. The people at Public Policy Polling are geniuses for asking this follow up question: "Do you consider Hawaii to be part of the United States?"
Well a whooping 8% of people polled actually said no, that they don't consider Hawaii part of the United States. It breaks down like this, 5% said no and the other 3% said they were not sure. Now last time I checked Hawaii was part of the United States. It was admitted into the Union on August 21st, 1959 becoming the 50th state.
So if 8% of North Carolinians polled said that Hawaii was not a state and 46% said Obama was not born in the United States. Then perhaps the reason why birthers don't believe Obama was born in the United States, might be because they don't believe Hawaii is a State and thus not part of the United States. So even if they believe he was born in Hawaii, they still would not believe he was born in America because they don't believe Hawaii is part of the United States. Just a little food for thought for everyone to ponder.
Comments
Obama has spent $1.35 million on legal fees to squash legal attempts to see his full birth certificate. In addition to keeping his BC secret, he is keeping all of his college and medical records secret. He is obviously hiding something - I wonder what?
I also wonder why people like this author are so obsessed with painting anyone who dares question Obama's past as a lunatic. I am confident that this author would be one of the first to DEMAND the pe4rsonal records of a Republican politician be released if there was the least whiff of a cover-up.
These tactics are pathetic. All those people in NC don't believe Obama because he has given them r4eason not to trust him by withholding his personal in bfo at great cost. Obasma must be doing so because even more people would distrust him if whatever he is hiding became known.
So since Bush giving ex-presidents the power to pick and chose what white house records that want to release and those they don't, do that mean he had something to hide and not setting a deadline for the records they don't want to be released. Seeing as how it began with Reagan and his fathers era, perhaps since one of the first things he did was to slow the release of the Iran-Contra scandal records. Since the records were going to be released the day he was sworn in. We still don't know the extent of his fathers involvement into the scandal, does that mean he had something to hide? Maybe you guys are on to something.
Or perhaps because of the lack of information that came out of the Bush administration means they had something to hide? Torture, warrant less wire taping, etc.... Oh, wait it did, so maybe you are right about Obama.
Reuben -
Do you consider birth certificates and college records "Whitehouse Records?" I think there is a difference between personal, historical info and info generated during the Presidency that might have a bearing on national security, don't you?
You guys really need to come up with something other than pointing at the Republicans as the authors of all bad things. It's not working anymore which is why even your average American is now turning on Obama. Don't get me wrong - I'm not a Republican but I know stupid when I see it and I'm afraid I'm forced to the conclusion that stupid now resides in the Whitehouse. It's too bad - he had such promise. I truly regret voting for him.
To Old Guy:
I have to confess you lost me on your argument. It wasn't when you said, 'even your average American is now turning on Obama', because that's just subjective. It wasn't when you said, 'stupid now resides in the Whitehouse', because it's White House, not Whitehouse.
It was when you started your note with 'Reuben'. That's not the author's name.
I know stupid when I see it, too, and it's not in the White House.
Vincent,
Actually I was writing to the commenter Ruben Christopher (I did misspell it - how stupid of me!) and not to the author. But thanks for pointing out so intelliegently where the points I made are invalid. Oh wait - you didn't address any of my points. But still I'm sure others with think you're attack was very clever!
Oldguy,
Do you have a reference for that $1.35 million, or did you come at that number via rectal extraction? I want a source that isn't WorldNutDaily.
I know you must be depressed after finding out that Kenyan "birth certificate" was a proven forgery, but come on ...
Frank -
The source indeed is WND - doe sthat make it automatically untrue?
And no, the Kenyan thing wasn't depressing - there are nuts on both sides and I personall don't care if he was born there or not. I mostly am interested in why he won't release any of his personal info from college, etc. It does seem like he's hiding something doesn't it? If he was the guy I voted for he would have released all this stuff on day 1. Aren't you finding it kind of hard to maintain your devotion or do you just not think about it?
oldguy,
Sorry to spoil your dinner, but my devotion is to the truth, not to anyone in particular. I was just as annoyed by the truthers for many of the same reasons.
And yes, since the source is WND, for all intents and purposes that does make it automatically untrue. WND is the site that told me that soy would make me gay and make my penis smaller, and told me I'm going to Hell for voting for Obama. Given that they are the Ministry for Propaganda for the Religious Reich, I wouldn't trust them as a source if they told me the sky was blue.
To summarize, I tend not trust sources that have a Dominionist or Christian Fascist slant. But this an unnecessary derail.
More on topic, most of the birther arguments are based on lies or logical fallacies. Case in point: the argument that no American could travel to Pakistan because of the travel ban in 1981. Unfortunately for birthers, there was no travel ban, although U.S. citizens were advised that it wasn't the safest place to travel to.
Another example: it is said that anyone can get a COLB, no matter where they are born. This ignores the fact that said COLB would state where that person was born, it wouldn't say "born in Honolulu" unless the person was born in Honolulu. Unless you think it is the official policy of the State of Hawaii to officially lie on an official document.
Also, given how many officials, Republican, Democrat and otherwise, have vouched for Obama's eligibility, how many are in on this conspiracy.
If what the birthers are saying is true, then this is one huge conspiracy. You would have Hawaiian State officials, Republicans, Democrats, media and others in on it. Wow, that makes it bigger than the Kennedy conspiracy, then the FEMA conspiracy too. Not everything in the world is some elaborate conspiracy by government officials. What motive would be behind all of this? Birthers are so quick to offer up reasons for a conspiracy but are short on motives for said conspiracy.
Frank -
Fair enough - ignore anything written by religous people. But as a fellow devotee of the truth, can we agree that Obama has gone to great lengths to keep his personal background information secret? I don't know exactly what he's spent but I know that fighting multiple law suits in multiple states adds up and, to be honest, I think the number of $1.35 million is probably low given the cost of your average lawyer. So can you give me a good reason why Obama would spend the money and alienate a significant number of voters if he didn't have something he felt was worth hiding? As a truth seeker, I would think you would be more curious about what it is that is being kept secret. If it was Bush refusing to release his college records (which he did release), do you think the media would let it slide?
This is such a spirited discussion! I need to jump in (and likely show how uninformed I am...sorry!). Is this like building a mountain out of a mole hill???? Producing birth certificates and transcripts is something I have had to do throughout my life as a condition of employment, marriage, driver license, etc... I think this is normal. Isn't it a package of info that is easily produced (come on, I did it!) so that we can move on to other important topics. My goodness, I still have copies of my transcripts in a file at home! Yes, ballroom dancing was my phy ed credit but that didn't hold me back or embarrass me too much.
Ruben -
I don't think there is a grand conspiracy that was hatched by nefarious people over 40 years ago. What I think is that there is something in Obama's personal records that he does not want people to see. I don't know what it is but he apparently is willing to go to great lengths to keep it a secret and this seems odd and makes me not trust him. It's that simple.
I do think there is a media conspiracy going on right now to label anyone asking about it as a "nut job birther" who believes in some grand conspiracy hatched over 40 years ago, etc. In other words, if we all call the Birthers crazy then maybe they will shut up and O can keep his secrets. It's another manifestation of the "clap if you believe" approach that Obama used so well during his campaign (that I fell for). At the rate the media is currently clapping that the "birthers are insane", I can only surmise that the birthers are actually making Obama and friends very uncomfortable.
A conspiracy is exactly what birthers are saying. Let us assume he is not telling the truth about his birth place. Than by extension Hawaiian officials would also be doing the same when they have said they have seen and verified his BC. Hence a conspiracy, that is what birthers are suggesting when they say Hawaiian officials are lying, as many have posted here.
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