The inevitable rise of President-for-Life Barack Obama will soon unleash his Stalinist hordes to ransack the gun cabinets of the nation and ravish Red America's newly disarmed womenfolk (and menfolk too, I guess, since Obama gets the bulk of the gay vote). That seems to be the nightmare keeping gun-rights advocates awake at nights. On Gunbanobama.com, the NRA-ILA warns that "Obama would be the most anti-gun president in American history."
There's some truth to those warnings. That is, Obama is rather anti-gun. Sure, sure, he says he supports the Second Amendment. But he also endorsed the D.C. ban on handguns. That makes Obama's support for gun rights about as thoroughgoing and enthusiastic as Anthony Comstock's regard for free speech.
But that doesn't mean that America will be disarmed under an Obama presidency, even if that's how the hypothetical new chief executive wants to expend his political capital. For starters, law just doesn't matter as much as people think when it comes to how people live their lives.
Honestly, I come from at least three generations of illegal gun owners in New York City (I now live within the law in Arizona, so don't think you're going to drop a dime, you tattletale). I say "at least" because I don't know for sure about my great-grandfather, but he owned a popular speakeasy. If he didn't keep unregistered weapons, the Sullivan Act would have been one of the few laws he obeyed. In fact, the gun laws are so byzantine and arbitrary that many New Yorkers have stopped trying to comply.
The result? Nobody knows how many illegal guns are in the city, but the most common estimate is two million shared among a population of about eight million. That's far more illegal guns than legal guns.
The city's meddling class likes to blame the black-market trade on looser rules and scofflaw dealers in other states. But even a professional busybody like Mayor Michael Bloomberg should have learned some basic economics from the financial news network he owns. Demand will always find a supply.
That's the case in Germany, where the German police union estimates that the country's 82 million people own twenty million illegal firearms -- above and beyond the legal weapons in private hands.
How can this be? Doesn't Germany have strict gun laws? Well ... yes. But laws are only as good as compliance, and people tend to comply only with laws that don't make them gag. In Gun Control and the Reduction in the Number of Arms (PDF), Dr. Franz Csaszar, professor of criminology at the University of Vienna, wrote in 2000, "Non-compliance with harsher gun laws is a common event." Referring specifically to Germany, Csaszar found, "In Germany the general registration of long guns was enforced in 1972. The existing stock was estimated at between 17 and 20 millions, while only 3,2 million guns have been registered within the legally set period."
Germany's black market keeps the supply of guns flowing, mostly from Eastern Europe, according to the Small Arms Survey, to satisfy continuing demand -- despite the law.
Flipping the bird to gun-banners is a popular game around the world. Csaszar estimated that compliance with Australia's ban on semi-automatic rifles and shotguns may have gone as high as 20%, Canada's ban on "military-style" rifles pulled in from 3% to 20% of targeted guns, depending on the model. When Austria banned pump-action shotguns, only 10,557 were surrendered or registered out of 60,000 in private hands.
What about something closer to home?
In Can Gun Control Work?, James B. Jacobs, Warren E. Burger Professor of Law and Director of the Center for Research in Crime and Justice at New York University, wrote:
In Boston and Cleveland, the rate of compliance with bans on assault rifles is estimated at 1%. Out of the 100,000 to 300,000 assault rifles estimated to be in private hands in New Jersey, 947 were registered, an additional 888 rendered inoperable, and 4 turned over to the authorities. In California, nearly 90% of the approximately 300,000 assault weapons owners did not register their weapons.
None of this should be all that surprising. Jacobs points out that many gun control advocates are among the first people to admit that drug laws are unenforceable. As he says, "Does the drug war not cast doubt on schemes for gun prohibition or stringent regulation?" Why should gun laws be different?
What this all means is that if Barack Obama is elected the next president of the United States, and if he's fibbing and plans to seize private guns or seriously restrict the ownership of firearms, he's likely to be about as successful at targeting guns as the government has been at eliminating the use of marijuana in this country. He won't succeed because, if you're a gun owner, you almost certainly won't obey. If you're a gun control advocate, Obama-the-banner will ultimately be left standing with his pants around his ankles because his efforts will have about as much effect on your stubbornly armed brother-in-law as Nancy Reagan's just-say-no scolding had on your college dope habit.
That's not to say that the law can't do damage. It can impose fines, send people to prison and make Americans increasingly hostile toward the government. I won't minimize the damage to lives that implies.
But that's government as usual -- pointless, repressive intrusions into people's lives without actually changing the way people live.
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Contact J.D.: civilliberties (at) tuccille.com
Comments
So the rational goes, since people won't comply with a ban on firearms than the argument that Comrade Obama will take the guns is false? Is this like saying that you will not get charged with speeding because everyone will violate the speed limit?
Really dumb. Re-read the Second Amendment. Does "shall not be infringed" refer to the willingness of the people not to obey a gun confiscation law or the power of the government not to pass the law in the first place?
So many things wrong with this editorial. It's astonishing that any American would proffer this as an argument.
I trust the basic interests and effectiveness of the National Rife Association (NRA), the Second Amendment Founcation (SAF)and Georgia Carry Organization (GCO) FAR more than I trust any politician or group to protect my 2nd amendment guarantee. That guarantee is the individual,natural right to keep and bear arms, a guarantee of a right that preceded the U.S. Constitution. The framers were aware of the potential tyranny of the government over the governed. Major threats to the U.S. are from criminals, terrorists and those who would disarm law-abiding Americans. The latter are perhaps the most dangerous in our republic. Remember that Senator Obama agreed with the gun bans in D.C. and in Chicago. He only gives lip service to the 2nd amendment and misrepresents his positions and votes on gun control issues. He and Biden are on the wrong side of the issue. Martial law could be used as a mechanism to disarm the public. That is, it could be misused to that end. Does the author really believe that the criminal element in hurricane Katrina were phased at all by martial law? How stupid a proposition. Most gun owners are NOT that stupid, and have seen how martial law does NOT work. It leaves families defenseless at the time they need their legal firearms. Saying that Obama cannot get all the guns is absolutely NO consolation to anyone who values freedom and life.
You folks do understand that this column isn't an endorsement of Obama, right? It's a warning to gun controllers that, if they get their desired policies, they won't get the results they want.
With that being said, you are right, they certainly will not get the results they want if your two first responses are any reliable measure of pro-2nd amendment folks are concerned. I make it a policy to never vote for a socialist or a communist. So far, so good. I DO worry when politicians or groups substitute their good judgment on "gun control" for that of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights like was done in D.C., Chicago and San Francisco. You are spot on, they won't get the results they want.
Mr. Tuccille, an interesting albeit empty take on the subject of citizen disarmament. Empty, because you do not address the purpose of gun control from the perspective of the politicians who implement it. They do not care about safety, or crime reduction, or any other ostensible social good -- passing gun control laws is an end in itself. It is simply is enough for folk like Bloomberg to get the law on the books; compliance is irrelevant to their purposes.
Secondly, in regard to your argument, let's substitute computer control for gun control and see what happens:
Don't worry about computer control, they've had it in many places and the noncompliance rates are very high. All you have to do is keep it quiet, use it in the basement with the curtains drawn, don't slip up and let anyone know you have a computer, make sure your kids don't slip up and tell their friends, hide it well, and watch your electric usage so as not to tip off the authorities and you'll be alright. You see the government isn't going to take away your computer and put you in jail, unless they catch you.
Don't know about your definition of liberty pal, but that sure ain't mine.
And finally, to say that Obama is rather anti-gun is like saying the Unabomber was reather anti-technology.
Not very reassuring is it? The purpose of owning non hunting weapons is self protection. Hard to do with an illegal weapon. Go to jail if you defend yourself or your family. Obama only needs to appoint one Supreme Court Justice to start the 2nd Amendment assault. There must be a hundred reason to vote against this phony...but this issue is one of my favorites. God help us all!!
Obama is one of the MOST FLAGRENT liars to ever grace the political scene.
His position(s) on guns proves that beyond doubt.
It is unbelievable that America is being snookered by this fraud.
Obama will not take your guns away-he will not personally go around collecting them, someone else will take them for him.
As for supporting the 2nd amendment, obama the lawyer fully supports the militia/U.S. armed forces having guns, and not the individual. Remember that he said Washington D.C's 100% gun ban was constitutional.
The full quote is: 'I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away." because I do not have the votes. Actually he does have the votes, the democrats have control of the house and senate. Also remember Handgun Control's endorsement of obama, and obama's position on the board of the joyce foundation - a group that finances any group that will push for gun ban legislation.
How does the future ruler feel about the first amendment? Broadcast stations are getting threatening letters to not air ads critical of obama, or face attempts to revoke their FCC license. How do you stop guest speakers critical of obama from speaking? Send threatening letters to station management, and get obama support minions to tie up the station's phone lines to prevent the guest speaker to have any discussion with interested listeners.
What other rights will be infringed by the ONE if he gets into office?
Obama will not take your guns away-he will not personally go around collecting them, someone else will take them for him.
As for supporting the 2nd amendment, obama the lawyer fully supports the militia/U.S. armed forces having guns, and not the individual. Remember that he said Washington D.C's 100% gun ban was constitutional.
The full quote is: 'I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away." because I do not have the votes. Actually he does have the votes, the democrats have control of the house and senate. Also remember Handgun Control's endorsement of obama, and obama's position on the board of the joyce foundation - a group that finances any group that will push for gun ban legislation.
How does the future ruler feel about the first amendment? Broadcast stations are getting threatening letters to not air ads critical of obama, or face attempts to revoke their FCC license. How do you stop guest speakers critical of obama from speaking? Send threatening letters to station management, and get obama support minions to tie up the station's phone lines to prevent the guest speaker to have any discussion with interested listeners.
What other rights will be infringed by the ONE if he gets into office?
Obama will not take your guns away-he will not personally go around collecting them, someone else will take them for him.
As for supporting the 2nd amendment, obama the lawyer fully supports the militia/U.S. armed forces having guns, and not the individual. Remember that he said Washington D.C's 100% gun ban was constitutional.
The full quote is: 'I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away." because I do not have the votes. Actually he does have the votes, the democrats have control of the house and senate. Also remember Handgun Control's endorsement of obama, and obama's position on the board of the joyce foundation - a group that finances any group that will push for gun ban legislation.
How does the future ruler feel about the first amendment? Broadcast stations are getting threatening letters to not air ads critical of obama, or face attempts to revoke their FCC license. How do you stop guest speakers critical of obama from speaking? Send threatening letters to station management, and get obama support minions to tie up the station's phone lines to prevent the guest speaker to have any discussion with interested listeners.
What other rights will be infringed by the ONE if he gets into office?
Obama will not take your guns away-he will not personally go around collecting them, someone else will take them for him.
As for supporting the 2nd amendment, obama the lawyer fully supports the militia/U.S. armed forces having guns, and not the individual. Remember that he said Washington D.C's 100% gun ban was constitutional.
The full quote is: 'I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away." because I do not have the votes. Actually he does have the votes, the democrats have control of the house and senate. Also remember Handgun Control's endorsement of obama, and obama's position on the board of the joyce foundation - a group that finances any group that will push for gun ban legislation.
How does the future ruler feel about the first amendment? Broadcast stations are getting threatening letters to not air ads critical of obama, or face attempts to revoke their FCC license. How do you stop guest speakers critical of obama from speaking? Send threatening letters to station management, and get obama support minions to tie up the station's phone lines to prevent the guest speaker to have any discussion with interested listeners.
What other rights will be infringed by the ONE if he gets into office?
What a raving lunatic - you sure you want people like this with more assault weapons? Having a gun is a right, but why do you need all this hate!
FACT: Before Running For President, Obama Expressed Support For Banning Many Types Of Firearms:
On 1996 Questionnaire, Obama Answered "Yes" To Question About His Support For Legislation To "Ban The Manufacture, Sale And Possession Of Handguns." Question: "Do you support state legislation to ... ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? [Obama's Response:] Yes." (Independent Voters Of Illinois Independent Precinct Organization 1996 General Candidate Questionnaire, Barack Obama Responses, 9/10/96)
Scholar John Lott Recalls Obama Stating: "I Don't Believe That People Should Be Able To Own Guns." John Lott: "In fact, I knew Obama during the mid-1990s, and his answers to IVI's question on guns fit well with the Obama that I knew. Indeed, the first time I introduced myself to him he said 'Oh, you are the gun guy.' I responded 'Yes, I guess so.' He simply responded that 'I don't believe that people should be able to own guns.'" (John R. Lott Jr., "Obama And Guns: Two Different Views," Fox News, http://www.foxnews.com, 4/7/08)
In 2003, Obama Voted In Support Of Legislation That "Would Have Banned Most Of The Privately Held Hunting Shotguns, Target Rifles, And Black Powder Rifles" In Illinois. "[I]n 2003, Obama voted in support of SB1195, which, if passed, would have banned most of the privately held hunting shotguns, target rifles, and black powder rifles in the state. If the ban was enacted, law enforcement officials would have been authorized to forcibly enter private homes to confiscate newly banned firearms." (Illinois State Rifle Association, "ISRA Blasts Candidate Obama On His Record Of Hostility Toward L aw-Abiding Firearm Owners," Press Release, 8/24/04)
SB 1195 Caused Furor; Would Have Banned Shotguns, Muzzleloaders. "The gun furor basically revolves around Senate Bill 1195, sponsored by Democratic Sen. Antonio Munoz. It would ban shotguns with a bore of .50 caliber or more, the net result, according to numerous interpretations, being to outlaw a variety of shotguns, and even muzzleloaders." (Lew Freedman, Op-Ed, "Hunters Need Not Worry--Yet," Chicago Tribune, 4/19/03)
FACT: Obama Believes D.C. Gun Ban Is Constitutional:
Obama Believes The D.C. Gun Ban Is Constitutional. "[T]he campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he '...believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constitutional.'" (James Oliphant and Michael J. Higgins, "Court To Hear Gun Case," Chicago Tribune, 11/20/07)
NOTE: The D.C. Gun Ban Bars Handguns, Operable Rifles And Shotguns In The Home. "The D.C. law, like laws in Chicago and New York City, doesn't explicitly bar handguns; it requires that all residents register them with the city. Since the city stopped registering handguns in 1976, no one who hadn't registered by then can have a handgun at home. The result, effectively, is a ban. D.C.'s law also bars residents from keeping any other firearm, such as a rifle or a shotgun, loaded or assembled." (Emma Schwartz, "The Right To Bear Arms," U.S. News & World Report, 3/6/08)
FACT: Before Running For President, Obama Came Out In Support Of Many Anti-Gun Policies:
Obama Was Director Of Anti-Gun Joyce Foundation, Which Spent Millions On Gun-Control Causes. "Adding even further skepticism to Obama's claim of support for the 2nd Amendment is his previous service as a director of the Joyce Foundation. Since 2000, the Joyce Foundation has provided over $15 Million in funding to radical gun control organizations such as the Violence Policy Center and the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence. The Joyce Foundation is tightly linked to the Soros Open Society Institute -- an extremis t group that advocates a worldwide ban on civilian firearm ownership." (Illinois State Rifle Association, "ISRA Blasts Candidate Obama On His Record Of Hostility Toward Law-Abiding Firearm Owners," Press Release, 8/24/04)
In 2004, Obama Voted Against Legislation "Drafted To Protect Homeowners From Prosecution In Cases Where They Used A Firearm To Halt A Home Invasion." "[O]bama cast a total of 4 votes in opposition to SB2165. SB2165 was drafted to protect homeowners from prosecution in cases where they used a firearm to halt a home invasion. Once again, Obama found himself on the wrong side of the issue as overwhelming majorities of both the House and the Senate voted in favor of this important legislation. Obama's steadfast opposition to SB2165 is indicative of his misplaced priorities on issues of self-defense and personal firearm ownership." (Illinois State Rifle Association, "ISRA Blasts Candidate Obama On His Record Of Hostility Toward Law-Abiding Firearm Owners," Press Release, 8/24/04)
The Bill Was In Response To Homeowner Who Shot Burglar Who Had Broken Into His Home - Twice. "The state handgun bill Obama voted against was a response to the case of a suburban Chicago restaurant owner who shot a burglar who had broken into his home twice." (Mike Robinson, "Keyes Rips Obama Over Opposition To Gun Bill," The Associated Press State & Local Wire, 8/24/04)
In 2004, Obama Called For Federal Legislation To Pre-empt State Concealed Carry Laws. "In a February survey of Democratic primary candidates for the U.S. Senate by the Tribune, Obama said he opposed allowing ordinary citizens to carry concealed weapons and that a federal law banning concealed carried weapons except for law enforcement is needed." (Liam Ford, "Keyes Backs Law On Concealed Guns," Chicago Tribune, 8/25/04)
Obama Recently Spoke Out Against Concealed Carry. Obama: "I am not in favor of concealed weapons ... I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations." (Mike Wereschagin and David M. Brown, "Candidates' Gun Control Positions May Figure In Pa. Vote," Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, 4/2/08)
In 2001, Obama Voted Against And Helped Defeat Bill To Allow Individuals To Carry Concealed Weapon When They Have Valid Order Of Protection Against Another Person. (S.B. 604, Senate Floor Third Reading, Failed, 29-27-0, 4/4/01, Obama Voted Nay)
"After Extensive Debate On The Senate Floor ... State Sen. Barack Obama (D-13) Helped Defeat A Bill That Would Allow People Who Receive An Order Of Protection To Possess And Carry A Concealed Firearm." (Todd Spivak, "Sen. Obama Helps Defeat A Concealed Firearm Bill," Hyde Park Herald, 4/11/01)
Obama: "Concealed-carry laws would only increase the problem of handgun violence and ultimately make the streets less safe everywhere ... It was a bad idea and I'm glad it failed..." (Todd Spivak, "Sen. Obama Helps Defeat A Concealed Firearm Bill," Hyde Park Herald, 4/11/01)
In The U.S. Senate, Obama Voted Twice To Hold Manufacturers, Distributors, Dealers And Importers Of Firearms And Ammunition Liable For The Acts Of Criminals. (S. 397, CQ Vote #206: Motion Agreed To 66-32: R 53-1; D 13-30; I 0-1, 7/26/05, Obama Voted Nay; S. 397, CQ Vote #219: Passed 65-31: R 50-2; D 14-29; I 1-0, 7/29/05, Obama Voted Nay)
FACT: Obama Has Received "F" Ratings From The National Rifle Association:
In 2004, 2002 And 1998, Obama Received "F" Ratings From The National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund. The NRA has given Obama 3 "F's." (National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund Website, http://www.nrapvf.org, Accessed 1/8/08; National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund Website, http://www.nrapvf.org, Accessed 1/8/08; 1998 Illinois National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund Political Preference Chart, p.2)
Biden likes to say he is the original author of the Assault weapons ban and along with Pelosi and Reid WILL reinterpret the contitution. His actions in the past speak louder then the words he says to get elected! Mark my words!
Further they have taken stpes without making it public to enact the UN millenium Plan which calls for all nations participating to ban Small arms and munitions..Expect him to say it Trumps our contitution!
Oh well I guess every couple hundred years we need a good civil war? Eh Comrade?
Dispite how bad Obama wants to revoke your gun rights he will hit an wall of people in the government that will fight him every step of they way
he won't have to take our guns away when he implements his 500% tax increase on guns and ammo, that will circumvent the second amendment and make guns and ammo unavailable for the average citizen.plus he will institute anti hording laws to make sure we peons do not have available in our armorys over 100 rounds per caliber for each firearm you own. are you angry yet? just wait till he implements it, pelosi reid biden and schummer clinton are all working out the details right now as i type, it will be implemented by this time next year.
Oh come on now. O'Reilly, Dennis Miller and Chris Matthews and Lou Dobbs said that Obama will be a middle of the road president, a centrist. Obama himself said that he is a firm believer in the 2nd admendment. Don't you believe them?
NO DON'T BELIEVE THEM. OBAMA WILL PASS A LAW TO MICROSTAMP AMMUNITION. REMINGTON SAID THAT A BOX OF AMMO WILL COST $100 SO THAT PRETTY MUCH RENDERS OUR GUNS INEFFECTIVE.
anti gun people don't trust gun owners(...but why do they trust legislators who after our guns are gone (good luck)are capable of ordering people they control to commit unspeakable acts on a populationwith firearms
the last century of the last millenium ,after civilians were disarmed.saw 110 million murders by gov'ts gone bad.....so IF THEY WANT MY GUNS----- from my cold dead hand
We need to understand that the extent of damage that an Obama ban would produce falls way further than the creation of criminals out of common citizens due to a lack of compliance, or hostility toward government, as usual. The real damage is to our Constitution. Just because we will not comply with an unconstitutional ban, does not negate the seriousness of an attack of our rights by Obama and Biden.
We The People voted in the booth in November, and lost. We are now voting a 2nd time in gun stores across the country. We are arming ourselves with the intention of retaining not only our 2nd Amendment rights, but also the retention of our Constitution as a whole. This represents a growing shift in Americans attitudes toward gun ownership, from defending the 2nd Amendment, to defending all of them. Read that last line again. The people of this country have just about had enough.
Oh, he'll try. But , hopefully, he and his minions have paid attention to the radical increases in firearm and ammunition sales. If so, and they aren't as stupid as they seem, regardless of whether they understand the Constitution or not, they'll back off.
Obama won't take guns because the collective force of the US Military and all the cops and feds combined couldn't do it without large numbers of them getting shot. The Bill of Rights denotes rights that PRECEDE the Constitution; these are rights given to us by our Creator. I think many politicians confuse the words 'right' and 'privilege'. They mean two different things. I have a God-given right to defend myself by any means necessary, a right that stands above any 'law'. The 2nd Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting; in the days following the Revolution if you didn't hunt you probably didn't eat. The Revolution was started in part because the King wanted to disarm the colonists. So, what do YOU think the 2nd Amendment is about? It's to protect us from the megalomaniacs that always find themselves in government.
Historically, a government that wants it's citizens guns wants more control over their lives than they're willing to give. Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Amin, Hitler: all of these regulated and then confiscated guns BEFORE they started murdering their own citizens, all under color of 'law'.
You will get my guns and ammo when you take them from my "cold dead hands!" The NRA is fighting every day to protect our rights "TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS." It was wrote in the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE on July 4, 1776 and I be DAMNED of some one is going to invade my "RIGHTS" I will fight to my death to protect my family and myself. If you own or shoot, Please join the NRA and help us fight for our rights. GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE - PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE Obama is the worst thing that has ever happened to our country and YOU people that voted him in office will regret your actions. He said what you wanted to hear and NOW that he is in office, he is doing just the opposite. LET'S STAND TOGETHER! There are 64,000,000 guns owners in the U.S. and only 10% of them are in the N.R.A! That is a shame...Please join, we need numbers! The $25 it takes to join, could save your guns! This is OUR COUNTRY, not OBAMA'S!!!
Well... after reading about our new president, I saved up a little and got myself a nice AMD 65, 1k rounds, and 4 30rd magz.
I officially stand now with the gun owners, and urge anyone who want my gun to come and take it. Lets see what happens... I wont go down without taking at least 1 or 2 with me.
I by no means are a violent person. But it just boils my blood when someone wants to take something away from be just because they dont agree with it.
Is just like early colonizations and forcibly converting slaves into Christians.
Civil war time again? Ready for it!
I come from a Communist country, and by no means will make the same mistake my grandfathers did.
I have given up on trying to own guns legally in NYC. You have to pay ridicules $450 in fees and then they limit what you an own too. I have a clean record and no arrests, I should be able to own any guns I want. The application fee should be nominal. Its just easier to ignore the law.
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