Recently, I have been in a dialogue with a reader of my latest article about Christianity. As it almost always does, it turned to how Christians are morons for believing the earth is only 6,000 years old when science says differently. Both science and Christians are going off of a belief and neither can prove it concretely.
Personally, I am not sure what the best answer is. I know neither of the two theories can be proven and both are based on lots of research by very intelligent people. First, Christians base their answer off of genealogy and eyewitness accounts of when people were born and how long they lived. The Bible has all those “Joseph son of …etc.” At best this describes the time of man on earth, nothing concrete about the creation other than what Genesis says.
This is not a scientific answer and was thought up in the 1600’s by Archbishop Ussher. He said the earth came about on October 23, 4004 B.C. I believe the word of God, however, it does not give dates. Therefore it is a theory, not a fact.
Now, I am going to give my reasoning that evolution is not a science, but another religion. The theory of the age of the earth has varied amongst scientists over the years:
1779 – 75,000 years old
early 1800’s – 96 million years old
1862 – between 20 and 400 million years old
1892 – between 18 and 22 million years old
1900 – 80 to 100 million years old
1927 – 1.6 to 3 billion years old
1956 – 4.5 billion years old
Evolution leans on carbon dating to give us this answer. In fact, the oldest thing “dated” was not even of this earth. It was a meteorite found in Arizona. What does that have to do with the age of the earth? Next: carbon dating.
Carbon dating is based off of the half-life of certain elements. How can we accurately say the half-life of Uranium -238 is 4.47 billion years? By observing its breakdown over a certain time period cannot be proof enough. That is the same thing as watching me run one lap around the track during a marathon and assuming my total time by this one lap. After watching the life of Uranium-238 for 8.94 billion years, I will agree. Until then, the age of the earth using carbon dating is a theory.
Last point for today, evolution suggests we all came from the Big Bang. Eventually, single-cell amoebas were evolved and in turn (survival of the fittest) led to us. Watching my child grow from the moment we found out we were expecting until now, debunks all their logic.
The change the fetus goes through is awe-inspiring. Vernix, the waxy substance on the skin to protect it against the amniotic fluid, is not something I see happening by chance over time. Vitamins and minerals provided by the mommy while breastfeeding is not by chance either. The mother’s ability to regulate a baby’s temperature (Kangaroo Care) to a perfect 98.6 degrees is not a survival of the fittest trait.
I know this was a lot of rambling but I wanted to lay down my core beliefs on the topic.
To play devil’s advocate, if the Big Bang theory is correct and we all came from one tiny particle (the size of a period) in the middle of space, where did that particle come from? I choose to believe I was created by God, rather than rocks and amoebas.
Thoughts?
Click here to see Evolution IS a religion - Part 2
Comments
I've always believed that the Earth may very well be billions of years old but that doesn't in any disprove creation. The Bible does not give the Earth's age. The 7 day creation period described in Genesis is symbolic. It is meant to show the different stages of creation and is not to be taken literally. Man has definitely only been around for a few thousand years, and science agrees with that. Did we evolve from apes, and before that lower life forms? I tend to doubt that. As you said there are too many things that are just to "perfect" to have resulted from accident or chance. The "big bang" theory may be accurate as well, but it still would not diprove the existence of God. That may have been God's method of creation. No one can begin to fully understand God or his power. No one can dare to believe he can explain God in totality, or to declare with any real certainty that He isn't real. You may not believe in God, but you can't prove He is not real by pointing to scientific theories
Outstanding comments John! I'm still in the fence with the "gap" theory where the 7 day creation is concerned. However, that is a widely accepted view.
Evolution is based on evidence, logic, and reason. Christianity is based on tradition, dogma, and the Bible. There are Christians who accept the truth of evolution, such as eminent biologist and head of the Human Genome Project, Dr. Francis Collins. Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus also accept evolution. The Vatican accepts evolution. Positing that the scientific theory of Evolution by Natural Selection (the method by which evolution happens) is a religion completely ignores these large groups of religious people, many of whom worship the same god you claim to.
Also, even if evolution was conclusively shown to not be true, you would have to use science to show that evolution wasn't true, AND that would in no way make creationism correct (or your particular brand of it, be it Young-Earth, Day-Age, Muslim creationism, Native American creationism, etc.) You'll need to provide evidence FOR creationism, not just evidence against evolution. Since evolution has tremendous evidence and creationism has none, it seems obvious to me which is more credible as science (and truth).
Of course the scientific community has adjusted the estimated age of the earth over time. As we gain more technology/knowledge we also gain the ability to collect more information. The more information we gain the better we can evaluate the the conclusion that the previous evidence lead us to. If the new information supports our current understanding of a subject the good; if not the the current conclusion we came to must be adjusted or dismissed.
Now compare that to most religions. The basic sentiment is that whatever their holy text says is true no matter how much evidence may say otherwise. While follower of a religion may twist the word of their holy text to mean something new (or simply ignore it) they don't say "this part is wrong, and needs to be rewritten".
Science goes where the evidence leads, and adjusts course as new information becomes available. Religion follows whatever path that is laid down in their teachings, and only follows evidence that leads to their predete
"Last point for today, evolution suggests we all came from the Big Bang. "
No it doesn't. Those are two separate theories.
"Vitamins and minerals provided by the mommy while breastfeeding is not by chance either."
Correct. Good thing that evolution by way of natural selection relies on a lot more than just chance. Otherwise mommy could have poison squirting out of those nipples.
"The mother’s ability to regulate a baby’s temperature (Kangaroo Care) to a perfect 98.6 degrees is not a survival of the fittest trait."
Sure it is. You do know that survival of the fittest doesn't just mean "creature A is strong enough to eat creature B therefore creature A lives on" right?
Joe, I never insulted you or used the word moron. I am interested in having a healthy open discussion. The reason it is called an evolutionary "theory" is because, even though it is packed with scientific facts, we are still learning and the evidence is continually mounting. I do find it admirable that you, in some cases admit that you don't know something. That's a trait that scientists have and they are happy to admit when they don't know something. I myself plan to never stop questioning things and never stop learning but My impression of many christians is that the bible is good enough of an answer for them and they don't need to hear about anything else. For example, you said "Watching my child grow from the moment we found out we were expecting until now, debunks all their logic"[regarding evolution and survival of the fittest]. This is a non-answer, an emotional wish. That's the kind of blind,unreasonable statement I'm talking about.One last thing. If there is a gap in our scien
continued from below
scientific understanding, that doesn't mean god can automatically be inserted by default.There were many gaps formerly filled by god which have since been explained away by science.
In closing – If you wish to make a statement like “evolution is a religion”, please, please lay out a logical fallacy free argument without a lot of personal opinions that have no basis other than “you believe” Telling me that watching your child grow debunks all current scientific evidence for evolution or the big bang theory is just a waste of time.
Peace
Chad
Conclusion drawn – I was not 100% sure based on your article exactly what your belief is. You state that you believe in the “Word of God” but you do not definitively proclaim your belief or disbelief in evolution.
Point eight – Fetus vermin, and mother’s milk – You are not bordering on the Teleological Argument, and the Anthropic Principle, all of which have nothing to do with evolution and are simply counter arguments. Both of these logically fail for the simple reason the argument can be modified with different examples to cause a direct contradiction to the first.
Example – The mother Kangaroo regulates her body temperature to a perfect 98.6 degrees, so as to provide the perfect environment for the fetus. OR evolutionist might point out that the fetus has evolved to thrive because the environment provided by the mothers pouch is 98.6 degrees. It is a logical fallacy and thus must be discarded.
Point Seven – Big Bang and evolution – As pointed out in another readers response, they are completely unrelated.
Point Six – Evolution “leans” on Carbon Dating to give us answer. No it does not. The scientific community stopped using Radiocarbon Dating (Carbon 12 or Carbon 14) over 20 years ago. They have a much more accurate form commonly referred to potassium argon or K-Ar Dating. Which btw, the same process is used in the calibration of the atomic clock, (calculating the microwave signal that electrons that atoms emit).which I assume you do believe in as every synchronized time piece in the world is calibrated off of these clocks.
Please do not perpetuate the false statement that sciences still use radiocarbon dating.
Point Five – Evolution is a religion – Definition of “Religion”: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.: A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.: The body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.: The life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.: The practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.: Something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
You would be very hard pressed to squeeze scientific theory into the definition of religion. But please feel free to propose.
Point four – While the Christian young earth proposition is based on Archbishop Ussher with many other books/papers/blogs trying to support it. The bottom line is in no way does it provide any evidence to support even a single claim. The Christian bible contains no information that can be collaborated or validated. Thus the entire argument is moot. If someone would care to revisit this proposition with information contained in verifiable evidentiary form then it may actually have a chance to become a hypothesis.
Point three – You state that you are not sure what is the best answer. And that neither of the two theories can be proven. This takes me back to my previous point. There is no such thing as an absolute. Thus you follow examples which are supported by the best evidence. An airplane being able to fly still only qualifies as a theory based on the previous definition. People get on airplanes because there is sufficient evidence on which to base the decision to board the plane or not. Gravity too is a theory, but you do not go to sleep at night expecting to wake up on the ceiling the next morning. There is plenty of evidence to give you a reasonable expectation that you will find yourself on your pillow when you open your eyes in the morning. (Assuming you don’t roll out of bed)
Second Point – When you say “prove it concretely” I assume you mean in the sense of a philosophical statement? Nothing is 100% certain? You must continually test and retest and you will never know for certain that it will repeat unless you perform the test again? That type of “concretely”?
If that is the case, then yes, you will never know if the sun will come up again until tomorrow morning where you can wait to see if the sun actually rises again.
This type of argument is usually reserved for the philosophy 101 class at your local university. It serves no real purpose in the rational or reasonable world of arguments. May I suggest you remove it from your arguments unless you are discussing Zeno’s paradox, or philosophical axioms.
Mr. Lawrence – Several points to review
First Point - In find it interesting that you state your conversations regarding your articles almost always turn to how Christians are morons for believing in the young earth point of view. I find this interesting simply because the young earth “belief” is not that popular of a belief structure. Do most of the people you engage with think all Christians subscribe to this proposition? (Yes it is a proposition, not a theory)
Definition of Theory
The analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another: abstract thought: speculation: the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory>: a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <the wave theory of light>: a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : conjecture c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view
Whew! Lots to respond to here. Dave, there is more for you at the original post. However, first off. I am Christian. Being a Christian doesn't mean that I believe all the Creation theories and science. Until recently, I never looked into science much at all. I am just tired of people acting like evolution is fact. The only prerequisite to being a Christian is that Christ died for my sins and rose again. That is it. Nothing else matters and that is why others have differing beliefs...it is ok. The Bible is a guidebook for life. There are scenarios for just about every situation imaginable. From this historical document, I can try to follow the examples and wisdom contained within. Vastly different people wrote each book and to a different audience. Greeks, Jews and Romans had different value systems and the writwe was adjusting for his audience. Just like when I talk to people of different nations..their cultures are different and different approaches are needed.
Next, my oppinions are not based off of what other people believe. Religious peer pressure will not make me believe a "theory" of how we got here. I have no clue how old the earth is or how it formed. I was created by God and I am here today. Everything else is theory. Chad, gravity is not a theory. It is a law. The law of gravity, it can be proven. I am not sure why you typed all those big words and philosophical theorems to say that gravity is a theory and planes might not fly. I am in the US Air Force and actually work on planes and have taught the science behind how 800,000 lbsof machinery can stay in the air due to the physics behind it. I would look up laws versus hypothesis in your science book again. I know my typing tone may be synical and that is not the intent. Your comments are philosophical not scientific. There are absolutes. I sure hope the guy wiring my home didn't hope the theory of electricity was right. We actually know how that works.
I think this will cover everything else...if not, I apologize. My underlying point of this article is that "NO ONE" or science cannot PROVE how we got here. The past has happened, there are things we can learn, but no one knows for sure. This boils down to the fact that people are free to choose their beliefs. I choose I was created by a loving God. Others believe differently. That is ok with me, I support free will. However, I cannot suport as fact, any theory of how old the earth is and how it was created. All theories are based on educated guesses by brilliant minds with IQs much higher than mine. But they are all just that, guesses. Sure all sides have some facts that support their theory, but none 100%. As Chad pointed out, religions are - "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe..." Sounds familiar. Belief in Evolution is believing in something not proven...it is practicing a religion. Evolution IS a religion.
Now with all that out of the way: Thank you for reading this article and for sharing your thoughts. Just as I do not want or expect you to hold back any punches, I try not to either. Please, don't take offence...none was intended. This is fun for me because it allows me to see what others believe and the passion we still have. I am working on a series to try and answer some tough religious questions, I challenge you to keep me honest. However, I must admit, some backup would be nice :)
"As Chad pointed out, religions are - "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe..." Sounds familiar. Belief in Evolution is believing in something not proven...it is practicing a religion. Evolution IS a religion."
Wow, they do sound similar! When you leave out the part of Chad's post that comes after that. If you had fully quoted the definition however the the difference would be obvious. As I stated earlier evolution has be proven (good thing to as vaccines rely on this knowledge). You may have a LITTLE more wiggle room on whether the theory of natural selection has be proven, but evolution itself is an observable fact.
"Please, don't take offence...none was intended."
I have taken none, and hope not caused any to you as well.
"However, I cannot support as fact, any theory of how old the earth is and how it was created."
Again what does this have to do with evolution?
"All theories are based on educated guesses by brilliant minds with IQs much higher than mine. But they are all just that, guesses. Sure all sides have some facts that support their theory, but none 100%."
An educated guess is called a hypothesis. Once you gain enough supporting evidence it becomes a theory. While most theories may not have 100% of the information; science is about getting knowledge that is as close to the absolute truth as we can. I have yet to hear any exclusively religious belief that has enough evidence to even rank as a theory. Hell, most don't even rank as a hypothesis.
Ok joe I'll start with your bottom post and work my way up.
You say "I am just tired of people acting like evolution is fact." The problem is that evolution is a fact. we have seen the evolution of viruses and bacteria. Fossil records, and DNA testing show the transition of lifeforms from one species to another. If the human lifespan was much longer then we would be able to watch it happen to larger lifeforms, but as it takes many, many generations for noticeable change to happen. We only have life with faster breeding cycles, and the fossils to use for gathering information.
"I was created by God and I am here today. Everything else is theory."
Do you have any evidence that you where created by god? If not that statement does not even come close to being as valid as a scientific theory.
"Chad, gravity is not a theory. It is a law. The law of gravity, it can be proven."
There is a difference between scientific laws, and theories that you seem to misunderstand. Laws per
Bah >_< next post got cut short. It should finish
"Chad, gravity is not a theory. It is a law. The law of gravity, it can be proven."
There is a difference between scientific laws, and theories that you seem to misunderstand. Laws pertain to what happens. Theories tell us why they happen. The laws of gravity are full of equations that can be used to calculate the effect gravitational forces will have on objects whether it here on earth, or on mars, or earths moon, etc. It's theories that help us understand why this happens (Newton's theory of gravitation, and later Einstein's Theory of Relativity).
BDSC, Newton did have a theory of gravitation that was quantitatively proven as a law. He had a theory and proved it, now it is a law. Evolution from one species to another has never been proven. If it were, the media would shove it down the creationists’ throats. How about Ida in May 09, the “missing link has been found.” Nope, it was debunked and swept under the rug. Adaptations have been proven within species. Cold weather animals get thicker coats, etc. However, there are no half-dog/half-another species out there.
Now instead of trying to teach me science, show me unequivocal proof that we have evolved from another species. Until you can, you are “believing” in what you read. I will break down the definition of religion and parallel to evolution in another article. Not enough room here. I realize that I didn’t quote the whole dictionary.com definition.
I choose to believe I was created by God. – prove me wrong.
I think it is funny, how most people said that many Christian sects as a whole believe in evolution and then have the audacity to call us close-minded. People are free to believe what they want, my family has 18 years of combat experience in nine wars or conflicts defending that freedom. Let’s make this clear…I DO NOT CARE, what you believe, at all. My point is and always has been, it is a system of beliefs until you can prove it. You have faith in Darwin and others’ theories. That makes it more of a religion than a scientific fact. I believe in Jesus’ and the disciples’ words and theories of life…I practice a religion. Why is it hard for you to admit the same? Are you ashamed of your beliefs?
The Theory of Evolution is – most closely identified with the evolutionary theorist Charles Darwin, the term was first used in a biological context by British author Herbert Spencer. Evolution is the change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation that may, in time produce new species.
This theory offers and intellectual framework for understanding the species change that is substantiated by an enormous volume of data. The key mechanism of evolution is natural selection, but other mechanisms involved include genetic mutations and the founder’s effect (genetic drift). Other variations are Anagenesis, Cladogenesis, Dollo’s Law, Darwinism, Macroevolution, and Microevolution
Religion concerns itself with man’s purpose. Evolution simply provides evidence of how we got here. Thus evolution is not a religion. Religion has not evidence or facts, this it has not place in the scientific world, thus again, evolution is not a religion.
BDSC, thanks for the clarification.
Mr. Lawrence, I absolutely appreciate your objectives of discussion and inquiry. I too intend neither impertinence nor ill will. I simple search for facts (not truths, there is a difference).
Clarification – I used the proper names of theories and principles so one may read and discover for themselves what information is contained within. I do not use big words; I simply use the proper names.
With regard to Theories – Please look up the following book. Dictionary of Theories by Jennifer Bothamley. This dictionary contains more than 5000 scientific theories, including the gravity model and universal gravitation.
Continued…
Joe,I'll try to keep this short. One example: the flightless cormorant. Why would god create a bird with wings that cannot fly? An intelligent creator would not do this. We see it's ancestors right now who do still fly. I don't care if you ever believe in evolution. I don't care if you hold beliefs which I find irrational. What concerns me about christianity is it's imposing of this on others, like the missions you've talked about. Religion belongs in one's home and church, not in public policy making and public schools. Science has a set of standards which creationism does not meet and therefore should not be taught as science. Would you have "teach the controversy" about science in sunday school? A few questions for you.
1. which denomination are you?
2. What personal experience did you have to convince you that you belong to the right sect of christianity? Not because someone told you or because the bible said so because that's applicable to all religions and sects which have book
continued from below.
Joe,I'll try to keep this short. One example: the flightless cormorant. Why would god create a bird with wings that cannot fly? An intelligent creator would not do this. We see it's ancestors right now who do still fly. I don't care if you ever believe in evolution. I don't care if you hold beliefs which I find irrational. What concerns me about christianity is it's imposing of this on others, like the missions you've talked about. Religion belongs in one's home and church, not in public policy making and public schools. Science has a set of standards which creationism does not meet and therefore should not be taught as science. Would you have "teach the controversy" about science in sunday school? A few questions for you.
1. which denomination are you?
2. What personal experience did you have to convince you that you belong to the right sect of christianity? Not because someone told you or because the bible said so because that's applicable to all religions an
Sorry about the mistake!
continued from 2 below:-\
books and elders.
3. Why do YOU think christianity has fractured so many times in history? The latest being the lutheran church over the gay non-celebate clergy. These are questions you can answer for me that I'm truely interested in.
I forgot one last thing. This may actually clarify a little what we are all talking about. An article entitled "Is Evolution a Secular Religion"?
hxxp://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/299/5612/1523
Mr. Chad, I will succumb to the fact that a scientific theory is used to explain phenomenon. However, theories are valid until proven wrong, they NEVER have to be proven correct, according to the NCSE. Something like the theory of evolution can not be proven wrong, it is too broad. In turn, creationism can not be proven wrong either. Here is text from a science book read by adolescents: “Humans share a common ancestor with modern African apes, like gorillas and chimpanzees. Scientists believe this common ancestor existed 5 to 8 million years ago. Shortly thereafter, the species diverged into two separate lineages. One of these lineages ultimately evolved into gorillas and chimps, and the other evolved into early human ancestors called hominids.”
Students are taught this is the only option. We were never told this was unproven theory and there are other viewpoints. That is my issue. Evolution is still a religion and I want people to know it is only a theory not a fact.
Mr. Chad, I will succumb to the fact that a scientific theory is used to explain phenomenon. However, theories are valid until proven wrong, they NEVER have to be proven correct, according to the NCSE. Something like the theory of evolution can not be proven wrong, it is too broad. In turn, creationism can not be proven wrong either. Here is text from a science book read by adolescents: “Humans share a common ancestor with modern African apes, like gorillas and chimpanzees. Scientists believe this common ancestor existed 5 to 8 million years ago. Shortly thereafter, the species diverged into two separate lineages. One of these lineages ultimately evolved into gorillas and chimps, and the other evolved into early human ancestors called hominids.”
Students are taught this is the only option. We were never told this was unproven theory and there are other viewpoints. That is my issue. Evolution is still a religion and I want people to know it is only a theory not a fact.
Dave, I am beginning to grow fond of you. You say Christians impose their will on others through missions. Ironic enough, I learned evolution was the only option in high school. Never were we told this was a theory based on some facts and other points couldn’t be proven. There is a learning law called the law of primacy. When you are taught something for the first time it is what you believe until overwhelming proof suggests otherwise. When your 7 yr old daughter is taught we evolved from ape-like creatures, it becomes fact until she is convinced otherwise. Thanks for helping to clarify that.
I am not sure why your bird doesn’t fly. Why hasn’t evolution eradicated it as being un-fit?
I am a non-denominational Christian. I believe I am a sinner and Jesus died then rose again to defeat sin. Two principles guide me: Love God with all I am and Love my neighbors as I love myself. I choose not to follow a particular sect because traditions and rules take away from fellowship with other Christians and God. My church believes what I just said and that we need to model Christ’s love in our community, the nation and the world. I said model, not try to convince others. If another sees God working in me and asks, I share my beliefs. If they get weirded out, I don’t push. Jesus said, “follow me.” Not do what I say or you will burn in hell.
I became a Christian because I explored many of the other religions and their beliefs. Atheism was never even an option, I can't fathom there not being a higher being of some sort. Even if the Big Bang is right, where did that initial mass come from? All of the other religions had very solid concepts and were grounded on love and harmony, but there was still something missing. Why would 11 men (Jesus disciples) be willing to die miserable deaths if it was all a lie? How could one nut job, seed the greatest mass of followers ever? The more I explored, the more I realized Christ was Lord. I accepted Him and am slowly maturing in my faith.
I also like the fact that my good deeds don’t gain me favor with God. Christianity encourages integrity to walk in His love. God loves me no matter what. He sacrificed His son for my sins, that is love.
How can you believe there is no God? Never understood that theory.
Great link, Dave. It does sound a lot like the dialogue in this room. The church fractures over societal issues of the time. Like gay marriage. There are those who fervently believe one side and those on the other side. They still have the same core beliefs that the Luthern church offers. Remember what makes you a Christian is belief that Christ died and rose again for our sin, not your oppinions on worldly things or events. The state you live in doesn't make you a better or worse American. IT just means you are an American in another state. Different things are championed and valued in different sects and some are not willing to accept it. That is why I'm non-denom. Traditions and rules take away from the love God has for us and inhibits growth in our faith.
Does this answer your question?
I'll stop bothering you after this. It's been a fun conversation! So you are a victim of the law of primacy. I'm glad you can see that. I wonder what many many other sects think of your non-denomination. As far as the flightless cormorant, it gradually lost the power of flight because their were no predators to flee and smaller wings actually aided it in it's persuit of it's prey(fish). It's a good swimmer.It is an interesting example of evolution we can actually see. I urge you to read a little about it on wiki.You didn't answer my questions 2 & 3 below and that is really telling(unless it was an accident).You just repeated a former post.
Peace to you and thank you for your service to our country! I really do appreciate that.
You asked for my thoughts, Joe. Here goes:
Why is this really even a debate? How can a subject this broad possibly be a "black and white" issue? Why is it so hard for Christians to accept any part of the theory of evolution? Why can't evolutionists stop trying to prove things they can't possibly prove and just accept that maybe there was some divine intervention. I personally believe in a good mixture of both.
I think Christians take the Bible too seriously, that is to say that they believe everything in the Book is absolute truth. I disagree with that line of thinking. Do you really think the Earth was made in seven days? Do you really believe Noah was 950 years old? The measurement of time in the Bible, or lack of, is one of the reasons I consider the Bible to be a reference or a guide on how to live a good life, not necessarily that is all truth and no embellishment... Consider how many times the Bible has been translated, and what writings have been changed or eliminated by the
part 2
Church to suit their own needs, which I absolutely believed happened in almost every religion.
On the flip side of this, I think evolutionists compare in some ways to so called "comspiracy theorists"... people who think Pearl Harbor could have been prevented, or that JFK was a conspiracy (I still do), or that 9/11 was an inside job. I recently watched a documentary on 9/11 that sought to disprove the conspiracy theories, and even with hard solid evidence in front of their faces, these people still stuck to their beliefs and refused to believe what was right in front of their faces. For some people, the status quo answer isn't good enough, even if it is beyond the shadow of a doubt. For me personally, I have seen and even felt things that could only be explained by divinity, and that answer is also good enough for me when it comes to Creation. How it happened really doesn't matter, does it?
Gee, it's too bad I went into this field... I mean it's only been a couple years but man, that was a lot of stuff to read. And it made so much sense.... guess I have to burn it :(
part 3
I choose to believe in both sides of this debate; that God has a way of doing things, some of which we understand, and some of which we don't. Look at medical science and the advances we have made, and we still do not fully understand the human body, but here we are discussing Creation... something we will never see, smell, or touch, and that we really have no proof of, just theories. My personal theory goes back to the issue of time... The Bible says the world was created in six days, and on the seventh, He rested. How do you measure a day if there is no earth to make a full rotation about its axis every 24 hours? As I'm writing this, I came across articles about how the flood was a myth, and that the first five books of the Bible were actually written in 5 B.C.... but we'll never know any of it, will we? We weren't there, and I just don't think this is a subject that can be talked about in absolutes.
part 4, For Dave
I have to comment on one post you made about how the Lutheran church is fractured because it allows gay non celebate pastors... I grew up Lutheran, but I haven't attended regular service since I was a kid. Strange even to myself, I have to say I'm actually kind of OK with the idea of a gay pastor, and here's why: once any one of us leaves church on Sunday, we are all sinners, regardless of how hypocritical we are within the confines of said building. I'm impressed that the Lutheran church (which I always thought of as Christianity for lazy people, and I mean that in a good way) has embraced the idea that a sin is a sin in the eyes of God, regardless of how we as mortals may view it. I know it will tick off my grandparents, but I do not think it will fracture the church :)
Mr. Lawrence
To specifically focus on the just of the topic outlined in the title of your article. Evolution is a religion;
First one must define what qualifies as a religion.
Then specify lay out the reasons why you think (in this case evolution) would fit into that category.
You make a lot of points that appear to lack any supporting evidence or proof of the statements themselves, and thus I do not believe quality.
Lastly, if based on the loose guidelines you have proposed to qualify as a religion, then People who like porn and believe porn is a good thing would qualify porn as a religion to them. People who believe that E=MC2 would qualify as believing that the laws of relativity are a religion.
To use the previous point, people who subscribe to the theory of gravity, would of course be classified as believing in a religion under the guidelines you have proposed.
Do you have a more succinct definition in which to clarify what you mean?
Peace
Chad
Dave, all questions were answered.
1) Non-denominational.
2) One event didn't turn me into a Christian, it was a lifetime of exploration and seeking answers in all religions. As a martial artist I was exposed to some Eastern philosophies and researched more. All were based on my works and my efforts to get to Heaven. Christianity is based on receiving God's love and forgiveness and "wanting" to live a good life based on integrity.
3) I answered why sect fracture. Not repeating all of that...read the comment.
Law of primacy meant nothing in my selection. Good try, though. I was trying to live a life outside of God's will with drinking and partying likle crazy. The fact that God never let go and put the right people in my life helped to make the decision to become born again in Christ.
Answer my question...how can you believe there is no God?
Kyle...thanks for reading and adding to the conversation.
I'm sorry joe, I know all questions were answered. I posted my comment while you were posting yours so there was some confusion. You did answer the sect fracture question I know. #2 is now clear to me as well. Thank you. This is the last time I'll bother you.
Dave, no bother at all!
Chad, there is another article further explaining how evolution is a religion using the definition of religion you gave me. There is a link at the bottom of my post titled "Evolution IS a religion - part 2."
I am sure there are people out there who have developed religions based on porn or those theories. Would it really surprise you?
Pages
Got something to say?
Examiner.com is looking for writers, photographers, and videographers to join the fastest growing group of local insiders. If you are interested in growing your online rep apply to be an Examiner today!