While hiding away on vacation President Obama set his Attorney General to prosecute the CIA for interrogating terrorists. Yesterday it was announced that a special prosecutor will be appointed to look into the interrogation techniques that President Bush authorized as late as 2007.
Allegedly the CIA did things such as threaten the families of detainees and beat them with flashlights. Was it torture or was it pushing the limits of interrogation? Andrea Mitchell said on the Today show that there were questions as to whether the CIA could have used more traditional methods of interrogation.
When I watch 24 I want Jack Bauer to beat up the terrorists to get the information required to save people. Abstractly I can look at it and say as a Christian we can not let ourselves be pulled down to the level of terrorists. So is it ever worth torturing someone? What it comes down to is that we must look at reality. Whether you think we should torture people or not you have to accept that terrorists aren’t going to give us any information if we just talk to them nicely with their ACLU appointed lawyer present. So we can arrest terrorists, prosecute them and then let them go after some time. It has been proven that dealing with terrorists as a criminal issue doesn’t work though. At the very least we should probably lock up these terrorists for the rest of their lives. I think we owe it to our citizens to try and stop any future attacks. Accepting that talking to terrorists won’t work what do we do? Maybe aggressive interrogation is the answer.
Did all the rules change on 9/11. Honestly I don’t think so. 9/11 was a bit of a wake up call but it didn’t take long for many to fall back asleep. The attack on this country by Osama Bin Laden was not the first wake up call we have ever received and it won’t be the last. We should have the rules that are right and that work and they shouldn’t change. We definitely were not doing what was necessary to prevent 9/11 We need to get the rules right and apply them once and for all.
Comments
Also on vacation Obama played golf with the CEO of UBS investment outfit and his old friend Dr. Whittaker. So what you say?
I wonder if Holder will investigate Obama playing golf with the CEO of UBS?
"Obama later played golf with UBS Investment Bank President Robert Wolf"
Your kidding I hope! That is CRIMINAL!
www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2009/February/09-tax-136.html
"2-18-09 UBS AG, Switzerland’s largest bank, has entered into a deferred prosecution agreement on charges of conspiring to defraud the United States by impeding the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), the Justice Department announced today."
www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/business/global/24ubs.html
"6-23-09 The Justice Department issued a statement on Tuesday denying a New York Times report that it was considering dropping a closely watched lawsuit against the Swiss bank UBS, seeking the names of 52,000 wealthy American clients suspected of offshore tax evasion."
www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/business/global/30ubs.html
"7-29-09 The United States government and the Swiss bank UBS offered contrasting views on Wednesday about progress made toward a settlement regarding federal efforts to force the bank to disclose the names of wealthy Americans suspected of tax evasion."
"8-21-09 The U.S. government kept the heat on Swiss banking secrecy Thursday, charging a banker and a lawyer with fraud for allegedly helping rich Americans dodge taxes by hiding assets in bogus offshore entities.
The indictments announced by the Justice Department come a day after U.S. and Swiss authorities unveiled a historic agreement to force Swiss banking giant UBS to hand over the names on 4,450 secret bank accounts suspected of being used by wealthy Americans to avoid taxes."
And Obama playing golf with the president of UBS is a good thing?
This is CRIMINAL interference in a Justice Department investigation!
If anyone but Holder was AG this would not take place.
There is AT LEAST an APPEARANCE OF IMPROPRIETY!
This is INSANE that he thinks he can get away with this.
Dr. Eric Whitaker is a friend from Chicago and the University of Chicago Medical Center where Michelle had a no show job. The fine Doctor and Michelle were involved in the patient dumping scandal.
He also helped Michelle get a huge raise when Obama was elected US Senator. When Obama won the presidency, her important job that deserved such a big raise, was defunded by the hospital.
Typical gutter Chicago politics.
www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/dr-eric-whitaker-obama-fr_n_186699.html
"Dr. Eric Whitaker, a close friend of President Obama's and an executive at the University of Chicago Medical Center, defended the South Side hospital's controversial policy of sending patients elsewhere for primary care while speaking at a City Club luncheon Monday, the Sun-Times' Abdon Pallasch reports."
HE ADMITS IT!
SHAMELESS! And Michelle Obama was deeply involved!
blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/obamas_pal_eric_whitaker_his_t.html
"With the prospects of Barack Obama winning the White House pretty good, the Sun-Times Watchdog team took a look in the Tuesday paper about a potential Obama administration appointee, pal Eric Whitaker.
By the Sun-Times Watchdog team
Dr. Eric Whitaker and Sen. Barack Obama go way back.
Their friendship began when they were graduate students at Harvard University. Now, Whitaker is one of Obama's closest advisers.
Whitaker, 43, of Chicago, often travels with the presidential hopeful on the campaign trail and has vacationed with him in Hawaii. There's talk Whitaker could be in line for a federal appointment if Obama becomes president.
Five years ago, Obama, then an Illinois state senator, gave a "glowing'' reference for Whitaker to Tony Rezko, the now-convicted political fixer who helped Gov. Blagojevich find people to run state agencies. Blagojevich hired Whitaker to be the state's public health director
How close to corruption can you get without being tainted?
Blago, Rezko, patient dumping.......Chicago. One last note. The fine Doctor is also a friend of Tony Rezko, Chicago corrupt convicted felon. Friend of Obama.
One last note. The fine Doctor is also a friend of Tony Rezko, Chicago corrupt convicted felon. Friend of Obama.
Actually, the most effective way to get information IS to "talk to them nicely."
Torture doesn't work - at most, it gives you highly suspect information because the prisoner will say whatever he thinks you want to hear.
And please - cite the "proof" that dealing with terrorists through the criminal justice system doesn't work. McVeigh & Nichols? Or maybe the Baader-Meinhof folks?
"talk to them nicely" this is completely pointless. Someone who is out to kill massiave amounts of people, if you say to them please tell us your plans for killing people they will just tell us? Ridiculous. It's touted by anti torture people that people being tortured only tell you anything to stop the torture. But if they lie then wouldn't they be tortured again until they gave more information. Eventually you'd think they would tell the truth to stop the torture from coming back. I'm not dvocating torture per se but making a point.
McVeigh & Nichols were not part of an international terrorist group. Proof that dealing with terrorists as criminals didn't work? How about 9/11? The first World Trade Center bombing, the attack on the Cole, the attacks on embassies around the world, they all led to 9/11.
Sorry, Larry - as someone who spent a fair amount of time DOING interrogations, I'll flatly state you are wrong. Over the years, we had much more success using the 'more flies with honey than with vinegar' approach.
I've also been on the other side, having gone through Nick Rowe's SERE school that was improperly used as the basis for 'enhanced interrogations.'
And the failures you mention were failures of BOTH law enforcement and military response, neither of which was pursued with any kind of vigor.
That said, how do you propose to 'lock them up for the rest of their lives' WITHOUT some kind of trial?
Sorry but I have my doubts about what you're saying Jack. Are you telling me that you actually tortured hardened radical islamic terrorists and that they lied to you, then you came back and tortured them again and after relentlessly doing this they just said "get bent we'll keep telling you lies?" The US has not been directly attacked since 9/11 and President Bush laid out attacks that we stopped because of intelligence we got. That is more proof that these EIT's worked than your proof that they didn't. I'm still not saying that torture is the answer but I seriously doubt sweet talking terrorists who are willing to die and kill many more will work.
Whether you like Dick Cheney or not he was in a positiojn to know what was going on and this is what he said about the EIT's working.
Cheney said in the statement: “The documents released Monday clearly demonstrate that the individuals subjected to Enhanced Interrogation Techniques provided the bulk of intelligence we gained about Al Qaeda. This intelligence saved lives and prevented terrorist attacks. These detainees also, according to the documents, played a role in nearly every capture of Al Qaeda members and associates since 2002.
You can usually tell Cheney is lying these days because his lips are moving.
The successes in Iraq - including finding Saddam and al-Zarqawi - came about from smart interrogations, not torture. Heck, some of that story is even in the open literature, now!
On the other hand, the "EIT" - torture, according to international law and treaties the US is signatory to - got Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi to falsely confess to close ties between Iraq and al Qaeda - which became part of the disinformation used to justify war in Iraq.
Remember, Holder's law firm REPRESENTED GITMO DETAINEES!!!!!
Conflict?????
I don't know who Jack is,but he is full of crap.He must be one of Obamas' appointed trolls.I have been on BOTH sides of the interrogation issue.During military training I was basically used as a terrorist and went thru the water-boarding and mental aspects of torture.I can tell you that I went thru far worse than any prisoner has went thru.When I read the comment about "talking nice"I almost tossed my computer.
You spend time at McCall, refuse? Because anyone who went through Nick Rowe's course will admit there is a difference between waterboarding in SERE and in reality: YOU KNOW IT WILL STOP IN TRAINING!
Worse than any prisoner? You ain't DEAD, are you? Then you are the one full of crap.
Again, I recommend studying how the interrogation teams found al Zarqawi - that was interrogation the WORKED, and did not involve torture.
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