Hand gun carried by Obama protestor. Source: You Tube
Last week, I wrote about the Pittsburgh shooter, George Sodini, the man who walked into an L.A. Fitness center and started killing women because he couldn’t get a date.
The article was titled, Pittsburgh shooter: What if he had been a health care protestor? Of course it was a stretch and there was no correlation between Sodini’s act of violence and the aggressive behavior that is playing out at town hall meetings across the country, except “anger”. What I was trying to demonstrate in that article, was that there is a fine line between “spirited debate”, argument, pushing and shoving, brawling, and killing.
Yesterday, in the Huffington Post, Josh Horwitz wrote a piece titled Handguns and Health Care Reform. In it he lists numerous town hall meetings that have been less than civil. He also links to reports that the ante is being raised and people are being encouraged to and have begun carrying concealed weapons to town hall meetings and other political events. Frighteningly enough, many of the same people who are against health care reform, are the Second Amendment people who believe that the Second Amendment still applies today literally as it was intended when it was written over 200 years ago. The Second Amendment was important then, because the sum of the colonist’s army consisted of local militia groups. If the individual colonists hadn’t had guns, we may have still been under British rule. Today that is not the case.
Yesterday, outside the town hall meeting that President Obama held in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, a protestor was walking around with a loaded 9mm handgun proudly strapped to his leg. He was carrying a sign which said “IT’S TIME TO WATER THE TREE OF LIBERTY.” This is a play on the Thomas Jefferson quote, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.”
William Kostric, the gun toting protestor admittedly was not concealing his weapon, had a permit to carry his gun according to New Hampshire law, and was not exhibiting any violence. What he was doing though, was demonstrating a fringe belief among extreme “militia types” that can be found throughout this country. Militia types like Timothy McVeigh who believed that the Federal government needs to be overthrown. Extremist preachers like Pastor Rick Knapp, who the Pittsburgh shooter George Sodini in his writings claims convinced him through his teachings that “you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven.” A Christian extremist sounding very much like an Islamist suicide bomber don’t you think?
While other members of Rick Knapp’s Tetelestai church deny that Pastor Knapp has ever said anything of the sort, go to the church’s website and you can get a hint of what Sodini might have been talking about, evidence of Right-Wing extremism. While their church’s “doctrine” is currently being “revised” for some mysterious reason, their prayer list is quite revealing.
Pray for America's Leaders
President — George W. Bush
Vice President — Richard B. Cheney
Secretary of Defense — Donald Rumsfield
Secretary of State — Condoleeza Rice
Secretary of Homeland Security — Michael Chertoff
Attorney General — Alberto Gonzales
Director of CIA — Michael V. Hayden
Director of FBI — Robert S. Mueller
Members of Congress
It’s been almost eight months since Barack Obama was sworn in as President of the United States, don’t you think they would have been able to find the time to update the prayer list with America’s current leaders? Or does that simply reveal that Pastor Knapp is not praying for Barack Obama, and Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton, because he doesn’t agree with them politically? Where is the Christian forgiveness Jesus taught?
The point is, extremism is dangerous, and if you put guns in the hands of angry extremists, people get killed. There is no place for weapons of any kind at any political rally except maybe strapped to the legs of law enforcement. Not according to William Kostric who was interviewed yesterday on MSNBC’s Hardball with Chris Matthews when he was asked, “Do you think if there were a thousand people there today and they were all armed that would have been a safer crowd?” Without hesitating Kostric answered, “Absolutely.”
Absolutely wrong.
Comments
Wow! You are quite a left wing nut. You make giant leaps across (completely bypassing) logic.
"Second Amendment people who believe that the Second Amendment still applies today literally as it was intended when it was written over 200 years ago" Of course it still applies. It's still in the Constitution. The Supreme Court recently stated it still applies in the DC case. It will always be necessary to prevent tyranny. Read some history, dude.
I disagree with your article on several points.
William was peacefully carrying a load gun. This is very common in NH and much of the nation. It's one of the best things to do, as it keeps crime low. NH has the 2nd least amount of cops and some of the best gun laws in the nation. Of course, that's part of the reason why NH is the safest state.
You saw the Hardball interview. Clearly, William was was the calm and rational one. Chris was yelling at and trying to smear William.
You have no reason to think William was a militia type. He didn't do or say anything related to that.
Also, Timothy was a well known leftist. William is clearly a libertarian. There is no reason to try to connect violent leftists to peaceful libertarians. You seem to be trying to smear freedom lovers, just like Chris did. Good luck with your smear campaign.
People are always afraid of what they don't understand. With you Sir, it is quite clear you understand NOTHING about firearms and the $200+ Million Americans that own, carry and shoot them. I'd stick to writing about something you can speak intelligently on, if there is such a topic.
William, I hope this isn't your only line of work. Man you need to do something else cause you suck at this.
John, what's to understand? People with guns kill people. If you carry a gun to a political rally in the back of your mind you intend to use it. There are laws against vigilantes because vigilantes cannot be trusted to determine when the use of force with a handgun is appropriate. That's what law enforcement is supposed to be trained to do, and even they have problems doing so. Can you spell i-n-t-e-r-n-a-l a-f-f-a-i-r-s?
Or defend yourself from purple shirted thugs. Brown, purple what's the difference. Nothing illegal here the police said so themselves. Citizen is within his rights, no need to pee yourself William.
Why didn't I think of that? If everyone is safer when we're all armed, why don't we pass out guns to everyone getting on an airplane. No more hijackers, no 9/11 right?
I always find it amusing when liberals tell me what Jesus said. He also said that if you don't have a sword to sell your coat and buy one (be able to protect yourself), as well as to drop child molesters into the deepest part of the ocean with a millstone around their neck (death penalty), but I'm sure you would never quote that...
“While both exhibit symptoms of impaired mental function and abnormal behavioral patterns due to intoxication:- irrationality, obliviousness, denial and observable disconnects with reality to name a few…
The advantage drunks have over liberals is the ability to sober up, come to their senses and stand on their own two feet.”
Subjective Observer
Keith "Also, Timothy was a well known leftist. William is clearly a libertarian. There is no reason to try to connect violent leftists to peaceful libertarians. You seem to be trying to smear freedom lovers, just like Chris did. Good luck with your smear campaign."
Maybe you should get your facts straight. He was registered as a Republican in NY, a member of the NRA, but self-identified as a Libertarian and voted for Libertarian candidate Harry Browne in 1996. Sorry Keith but you don't know what you're talking about.
"John, what's to understand? People with guns kill people. If you carry a gun to a political rally in the back of your mind you intend to use it."
What are you, a mind reader? Please. Leave it to a liberal to automatically assign the most evil intent to any behavior that involves a gun.
I have been to political rallies, with a gun. I have been licensed to carry in 33 states as a civilian for 20 years. My motivation was simply that I won't leave it in the car to be stolen and used on someone. When it is under my control, I know that it will cause no harm to an innocent person. Car burglaries are a primary source of illegal weapons.
This gentlemen's motivation (though I won't presume to know) was likely the public exercise of a right to assert a freedom that has been under attack in this country for 50 years. It is highly entertaining to watch the incredulity of MSNBC commentators invoking such fear and loathing over the mere presence of a gun in the possession of a lawful citi
It is highly entertaining to watch the incredulity of MSNBC commentators invoking such fear and loathing over the mere presence of a gun in the possession of a lawful citizen.
I watched the Chris Mathews interview with disgust and admiration. Disgust (but not surprise) at the lack of journalistic integrity of Mathews, and admiration for the cool-headed Kostric, who, with a migraine from possible sun exposure, sitting in a hot studio, against a professional media attack dog frothing at the mouth, held his own quite well.
Mathews looked like a complete ass-hat, bewilderingly accusing Kostric of being a "birther", and even resorting to profanity, referring to Kostric's "God-Damm gun". Nice.
To Christopher J. Hoffman,
If you are always going to carry a gun, I hope you would be responsible with it. If you feel so threatened that you must always have a handgun with you perhaps that says something about our society as a whole.
The difference between Mr. Kostric, the poor, "migraine suffering" patriot (I didn't realize you were a television doctor as well, sorry) was carrying a gun AND a sign that was implying he wanted to "water the tree of life", with what? The blood of patriots and tyrants.
No matter how responsible you may be with your weapons his presence as such was dangerous to public safety and irresponsible.
Isaac,
The reason people carry handguns around is not to prevent tyranny. Since when have you seen "tyranny" walking down the street? What do you consider "tyranny"?
People like you carry guns because you are afraid. And maybe we should be, because the only tyranny I see is in the "Haves" and the desperation they cause by keeping people in poverty and inequality, while they laugh over their tax breaks and private jets.
Examiner says:
"The reason people carry handguns around is not to prevent tyranny. "
It is partly why I carry; and how would you know? That's what I said. It's what I meant. You cant' refute that. It's true.
"People like you carry guns because you are afraid."
No. I can carry concealed in all 50 states because I am a federal law enforcement official. I might encounter a criminal I met doing my job. It's not fear. It's prudence.
"And maybe we should be, because the only tyranny I see is in the 'Haves' and the desperation they cause by keeping people in poverty. . ."
That's right. You asked me when I've seen tyranny walking down the street and then provide a great example. The rich folks like John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, John Edwards, Ted Kennedy. . . ARE keeping the poor peope down using their power in the government. They do it by enacting policies and laws that prevent us from getting richer, hence getting out of poverty. Thanks for agreeing with me.
I go to that Church regularly. That prayer card for national leaders had been updated the very month Barak Obama was sworn in!!
I should know I often read it and get to pray for them on that list. Hilliary Clinton is on that list! We are encouraged to pray that God will give the leaders wisdom. They have cards they randomly pass out and if you get it you may pray for them on that list. But it has been updated a long time now. Others they pray for regularly on 3 X 5 cards are military leaders and personel. Firefighters and police officers. Those in harms way. Various missionaries throughout the world. Various pastor-teachers, evangelists and other spiritual leaders in the nation (Particularly those ordained by R. B. Thieme Jr Ministies.) The old cards are blue and the new revised ones are pink. There may have been some old ones still floating around though. You might have picked it up by mistake.
I would also like to say that Pastor Knapp teaches that taking up arms against ones own country is not wise. Matt 26:52 "Those that live by the sword shall die by the sword" in context Rick always taught that this verse is in relation to Peter's impulse to defend Jesus against Rome. Rick teaches that when Paul wrote. "Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves." That the powers extant at that time were perverse men like Nero and Caligula. Furthermore even when King Saul tried to kill David with a Spear 1 Sam 1:10 And was being pursued by King Saul 1 Sam 23:25 That when the tables were turned that David did not Kill Saul 1 Sam 24:3-5 but protected him and ironically fought against the enemies of Israel while being a fugitave from its king.
What is the point of a hand gun? Why was it invented? This (what looks like a 9mm) gun strapped to his flank. The answer says it all. It was not invented to push someone aside. It was not invented to shield you. It was not invented to negotiate. It was not invented to keep the peace. It was not invented to keep you safe. No. The point of a projectile going 1100 feet per second is to harm. Pure and simple.
Deterrence. That is what the gun is for. Deterrence from many evils.
William Skordelis,
I have been an active member of Tetelestai church (of Pittsburgh, PA) since 1993, so I DO know what Pastor Alan "Rick" Knapp has taught in all those years. You have made some bold accusations in your article which prompts me to ask... what research can you site to give evidence to call my pastor an extremist? Was the extent of your research merely repeating the words written by a psychopath? Is that the extent of your research?
Pastor Knapp has always been a man of integrity who makes pain staking efforts to study the Bible from it's original languages. As new truths are discovered (new meanings of ancient words through archaeological findings, etc.), he in humility revises his teaching to bring students the latest information known on many doctrinal subjects. A seeker of truth and knowledge must always be willing to revise what they have learned from time to time. This is why the web site indicates that a revision will be forthcoming. Did you research how l
Did you research how long the web site has stated that comment? No? The comment has been up for some time (long before the gunman's horrific actions) as the church is revising some of it's teaching on dispensations, etc. Did you research who is responsible for updating the churches' web site? Did your research show that the church relies heavily on help from volunteers to keep the web site current? It is clear that the church is in need of more local volunteers to help keep the web site current. As a long time member, I will tell you that our freely distributed bulletins have President Barack Obama and his cabinet listed on our prayer list since he came into office. I would be happy to scan in one of my older bulletins if you were interested in truth. Just let me know.
I used to sit a few rows from the gunman on many occasions. From his physical demeanor, no one could ever have known the bitterness that he was harboring. Pastor Knapp's teachings have never condoned murder for any re
Pastor Knapp's teachings have never condoned murder for any reason. Pastor Knapp's teachings have always protected people - especially women. Had the gunman actually listened during church instead of allowing his bitter unfulfilled agenda to damage his soul, he would have been taught the following by Pastor Knapp:
Beware of mental attitude sins. They lead to self absorption, which leads to neurosis, which eventually leads to psychosis.
Beware not to judge. Some folks judge others outward overt sins, but neglect their own inward - covert mental attitude sins (like bitterness and judging), which in the long run causes scar tissue on the soul.
The cure for loneliness is fellowship with God.
Forgive others and do not pay evil for evil.
Whatever things are good, think on these things and the peace of God will garrison your heart and mind.
Be innocent, be your new self
I could go on and on with the lessons that Pastor Knapp taught that was ignored by the gunman. One thing is clear..
One thing is clear... bitterness is poison. It stops people from growing. Are you still growing, William? Or have you allowed your own bitter agenda (offense of the cross) to thwart your soul enlightenment? Be careful lest one day it lead to self absorption, then neurosis, and psychosis.
Isaac,
Thanks for agreeing with me, as I agree that law enforcement should be carrying around handguns. You are trained not only on how to shoot it but when and why. Thanks for your service.
You conveniently name rich Democrats. What about the rich Republicans like John McCain and the Bush family just to name a few.
JohnB,
Perhaps the little cards they pass out are updated, so why is the list on their website that potentially could be seen by millions of people not updated? Just go to the website John, I just checked it and The Bush Administration is still shown with Donald Rumsfield still as the Secretary of Defense. Maybe instead of writing comments here you should volunteer to help Pastor Rick update his website. Just kidding, thanks for the comment.
Sandy,
In the time it took to write these 4 lengthy comments the prayer list could have been updated. Obviously it must be tough to find volunteers because Rumsfield hasn't been Secretary of Defense since 2006.
I was brought up in a Christian home and have read many different views on philosophy and religious doctrine from the Bible, to Hinduism, to Buddhism, Shintoism and Native American beliefs. What I find dangerous about the Christian evangelical movement is their desire to control U.S. government, and their refusal to accept a government that is truly separated from the church.
If someone wants to follow Pastor Knapp, and they get what they want from their religious relationship with his church, that's fine, but do not agree with any pastor or priest who tries to preach politics from the pulpit. Leave this country as free for people from all faiths as well as those who choose to have no faith and we will really live up to the freedom promised by our forefathers.
I agree, web sites should be kept up to date. If you have done your research, it would be apparant to you that Tetelestai church is not evangelical so you are applying pre-conceived notions from your own agenda without investigating the facts. Hmm...
Pastor Knapp has also studied the religions you say you have studied and he has taught separation of church and state for years. He further has excoriated pastors of other faiths for their lack of due diligence in studying the scriptures. You have many misconceptions as to my church. Why didn't you do your research before writing scathing comments? Pastor Knapp does not preach politics from the pulpit but only doctrinal principles... Pastor Knapp has taught the principle "live and let live" for years. Perhaps you received false doctrine as a child which has tainted you. You would do well study the scriptures which states "not to bear false witness against someone."
Oops! I mis-spoke... Pastor Knapp has not taught against other "faiths" from not thoroughly studying the scriptures, etc.. but rather dominations (i.e., evangelical). See, I'm still learning... and can admit when I've made a mistake. Can you? Do you have the humility to retrack the false comments in your researchless article?
Sandy,
I'm sure your Pastor would be proud that you have so tirelessly defended him. If you can direct me towards some examples of some of his writings, like any books, I would be happy to look them over and then get back to you.
Please note that whether or not a church considers themselves "Evangelic", I do know something about Christianity, and if you are trying to convert me to your beliefs you are evangelizing.
If the top people on your prayer list are politicians, you are preaching politics.
And as far as keeping your website up-to-date, I would say 3 years behind is pretty bad. In fact it is so bad, it verges on purposeful negligence. Almost a religious Freudian slip.
Thanks for keeping me honest even though you prejudge me as much as I am prejudging Pastor Knapp from what little I know about him.
William, I am not trying to convert you. You said you were raised in a Christian home. My writing was to point out missed facts that a legitable journalist (and person brought up in a Christian home) might be interested in. I am concerned for you though. BTW It's not logical to say that the top people on someone's prayer list makes them the same as the prayer recipients.
PS. To further clarify.. mentioning someone does not make you a preacher of anything. Mentioning someone to God in a prayer does not make praying people preachers of the prayer recipient's occupation. Oh and, yeah our church is severely understaffed and three years not updating a website is inefficient but not evil. Watch the words you use...
". . . as I agree that law enforcement should be carrying around handguns. You are trained not only on how to shoot it but when and why."
Those who carry concealed with state-issued permits are also trained on how, when, and why to shoot. I feel much safer with law-abiding citizens (they are law-abiding by the fact that they bothered to get a permit) who are trained. They're like trained law enforcement; except they don't get paid. I, unlike many high-level officials, trust the American people. That's why I'm comfortable with the 2nd amendment. Almost all the rank-and-file law enforcement officials I know agree with my point of view.
"You conveniently name rich Democrats. What about the rich Republicans. . ."
I specifically mentioned them to make the point that they are the ones in power. Bush, Cheney, et al., are no longer in power, so are no longer in a position to infringe upon my freedoms.
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