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It's not easy when a large company has growing pains that demand new changes. Since not every change is likely to be popular, things can get pretty dicey.
Management can be perceived as being in bunker mode, workers can get weary and confused, customers can get critical, critics can get rabid. Those things happen under the best of circumstances, if you hit a few extra bumps, watch out!
Ebay, once the darling of the online auction industry has come under a lot of fire in the past couple of years for some dramatic changes it's made in it's fee structure and policy. Yours truly has been a pretty vocal, but fair critic of these changes.
Rather than re-hash the plethora of events that have inspired everything from countless eBay alternative startups to the calling for the resignation of it's CEO, I am going to offer one simple piece of advice to eBay.
I feel as a veteran eBay Powerseller with 10 years on the site, and as a licensed professional auctioneer with over 25 years in the business, that I am well qualified to make a suggestion like this.
I've called for this several times going as far back as over a year ago, and of course, I'm not the only one who's made it. But there has never been a better time to institute this.
Ebay, split your selling platform, completely, clearly and definitively into 2 formats.
1) Fixed price, 2) Auctions.
The number of problems this will solve will be uncountable. It would satisfy sellers of all walks, and bring most of the anti-eBay sentiment to a screeching halt.
The bleeding of lost sellers and buyers will stop, your PR deptartment will have a chance to re-group, the moral of workers will balloon, management can relax. Why? Because eBay will be re-invented in the publics eye as a company who listened to it's customers. And because the auction model has worked so well, and really does define eBay.
It's a way of having your cake, and getting to eat it too.
Placing a few good experienced auctioneers in some position of power within such a new “auction only” branch, and shouting this to the community would allow eBay to take the focus off of the angst that's been aimed that the giant for the past 2 years. No one can bellow like a good auctioneer!
With that breathing space it could re-group and get a closer look at how to make it's fixed price platform the dominant player they are hoping it will be. It could, get much more out of it's auction business, and have the best chance of bringing eBay stock to the stratosphere. It looks like a tri-fecta to me.
Take some advice from a big mouthed auctioneer on this one, not because I think I have all the answers, but because auctions online and off, are my life, I monitor the auction business the way Google does analytics, and all the information I have shows that your users want this.
Thanks for reading,
AW
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Comments
I agree , good call Walt
Wally: great article. Thanks for all the info.
I wish it were that simple, but ebay is bleeding small sellers because it treats them like garbage in plain english. When a seller, like myself, with perfect feedback (over 3,500) and no negatives in 10 full years of selling and DSR's of 5.0 across the board is buried in Best Match then simply separating auctions and fixed price will do nothing. I'm not listing on Ebay anymore and thousands like me aren't either. We cannot afford to keep paying listing fees for that occasional sale. It simply isn't worth it. So, we list on all the sites giving free listings and hope for the best. In many cases there is now no difference between listing on the free sites and listing on Ebay - except for the listing fee Ebay charges. They need extensive work and a realization that although small sellers can't compete by volume with their diamond sellers they still do have merit and they still are of great value in setting the difference between ebay and other black and white catalog type retail sites. Ebay is losing the one thing that made it famous and the one thing that kept bringing back buyers...the sellers of the vintage, unique and rare items that diamond sellers cannot offer.
@Patrica013
You've hit on some of the things that I've covered in the past and some very valid points.
I think many of them however, would be solved if eBay were to split into two factions, auctions and fixed price.
This would dovetail nicely with your statement about them bringing vintage and antiques sellers back into the fold.
Personally for me on eBay, it's all about auctions. Millions of people buy on eBay via fixed price, but I would argue that most of them came in the door through a unique item auction.
Thanks for the input.
Great suggestion wally, but eBay won't listen because they think they tried this already with eBay Express, and it failed. Of course it failed because they didn't really try it (they didn't separate auctions from fixed price), they didn't market it, and their execution stunk. But it doesn't matter, they think they tried it and they drew all the wrong lessons from its failure.
I think eBay stays more or less on its current course until the Marketplace gets sold to an external entity, whether by agreement or hostile takeover.
@nadine I think too that there are a lot of things on eBay auctions that would be better served in the "fixed price" market.
When auctions on eBay became red hot, everyone wanted in on the auction game and this worked for a short time.
But what happened was, after the novelty wore off, people realized they don't want to buy office supplies or iPods at auction. A lot of people looked at that and said "auctions are dead". Not true, auctions for items that are not suited for auction format ARE DEAD, no doubt.
But auctions for antique, collectibles & uniqiue items are as in demand as ever, if not more!
I am getting tons of email from new investors coming from Wall St. and elsewhere that want to know how to get in the antiques and auction game because they want a safe place to put their money.
I have never seen a better time for the antiques and auction business.
If eBay doesn't satisfy this marketplace need, someone will because supply and demand are as sure as death and taxes.
I think it is really sad what has happened to eBay. In 1999, I was selling used goods very successfully and then branched out to books and had 100% positive feedback. I added some ebooks and was one of the first selling those. ( good solid how to books) then the whole criminal element came in and ruined the whole ebook thing. It was horrible, like the mafia or something. People mass ruined all your auctions and left x rated fake negatives. I spend countless hours submitting reports and asking for fee refunds and getting fake negatives removed. Finally they tightened up security on that, ( after a few years, not fast I will tell you that) The cold and unresponsive way their supposed "safe harbor" people handled things was disgusting.
Now the way they force you to use paypal, (that was another nightmare at the time, I got money back from the class action suit)and the new rules with feedback and the fee hikes make ebay the last place I want to sell. I left 3 years ago and I have never looked back. I started my own e-commerce website and I don't even shop on ebay anymore. I never hear people talking about ebay in conversations either. I feel ebay has completely lost their way.
They should go back to their roots.
I agree with you, fixed or auction, period and no more huge retailers on there, it is nothing like it was.
@nadine I think too that there are a lot of things on eBay auctions that would be better served in the "fixed price" market.
When auctions on eBay became red hot, everyone wanted in on the auction game and this worked for a short time.
But what happened was, after the novelty wore off, people realized they don't want to buy office supplies or iPods at auction. A lot of people looked at that and said "auctions are dead". Not true, auctions for items that are not suited for auction format ARE DEAD, no doubt.
But auctions for antique, collectibles & uniqiue items are as in demand as ever, if not more!
I am getting tons of email from new investors coming from Wall St. and elsewhere that want to know how to get in the antiques and auction game because they want a safe place to put their money.
I have never seen a better time for the antiques and auction business.
If eBay doesn't satisfy this marketplace need, someone will because supply and demand are as sure as death and taxes.
@ Lee Chen please put the URL of your site here, it sounds like you have some good insight, I'd like to visit your it.
AW
I understand where you're coming from with this suggestion, but the problems would be far from solved with just a separation of the auction formats.
In order for me:
1. Feedback must be re-instated for both buyer and seller
2. DSR Should be removed or revamped to a more fair system
3. Final value fees must be lowered...ebay is too expensive and doesn't give fair exposure to everyone. If you pay full price you should get full exposure. To me it's criminal that they can hide listings and promote others when, in many cases, the hidden listing has paid a higher fee.
4. Allow payment to be received any way you choose.
5. Listen to the experienced sellers and buyers and show some respect for the people who pay your salaries.
The biggest change I would like to see is:
Ebay should not get any Final Value Fees until an item has been paid for through their pay service (paypal). Then I could see them getting more people using paypal...but not forcing it on people. Ebay takes FVF from all other auction upon completion. The great thing here is, ebay would then have a vested interest in the NPB (non paying bidder). Ebay wouldn't get paid if you didn't get paid...it would solve the NPB in seconds. Then, if you didn't use paypal you'd leave yourself open to NPB's. The truth is, no fees should ever be collected until a seller has received payment...because technically nothing has been sold...it's only been put on hold. But, I think many more people would use ebay if they lowered their fees and made the receiving of payment their responsibilty.
@ Jim, I agree to a point. You see, by design I think that splitting into two marketplaces,many of the issues you address, would naturally have to be taken care of as well.
It would come with the territory so to speak.
I didn't post all those here for that reason AND experience tells me that if I throw something into the pot, my knowledgeable readers will add more as you've done.
Thanks for your input, it's wise and welcome, now if we can get those inside the bubble to listen...
Jim to auctionwally; I'm for anything that gives us a site that is as good as ebay was. How that is achieved matters very little to me.
I can see that it is possible by splitting the two types of auctions you would likely have several of the issues solved. They, (ebay) may have to go to a tier type system where the diamond sellers aren't competing directly against moms and pops. So, possibly even an ebay that is divided in 3 or 4. 1 area for the huge Amazon direction with only fixed listings (diamond sellers) 2. An area for only auction type listings (diamond sellers)...and the third area would exclude the giants (say -just an arbitrary number- no feedback over 2000 for example). This area could be just like the old ebay, it could be left as auction and fixed together or segregated like the giant seller area -- with auction and fixed being separate.
I think we're talking similar ideas and certainly it would be a bonanza for ebay. I just don't know why they can't see it.
I am a proud seller and under the current structure would not even consider ever selling or buying there again. Give me an option like you suggest (with the hopeful, obvious changes) and I could definitely see myself forgiving and forgetting. I am a big believer in forgiveness. It's not good for anyone to hold resentment for any length of time. That is why I have forgiven ebay and carried on selling on other venues.
I appreciate this forum for putting out a few suggestions. I also respect your ideas as you have the experience which ebay sooooo lacks. They have yet to realize that all the good ideas are not confined to their boardroom...obviously!
I'm not sure if eBay splitting into two would work. Why would I bother paying to list items for sale on eBay if can list them for free on craigslist? I guess large sellers might keep using it but I think eBay would lose most if not all of the smaller "buy it now" sellers.
There's also a new soon to be released innovative auction website that just might gave eBay a run for its money. bidboxr.com
Hi AW!
Great idea! I don't think it addresses the issue that ebay is facing, however. I believe they're trying to trim down the number of Sellers due to tax laws that will soon be passed requiring sites to report all transactions to the IRS. Two separate formats will not make that task any easier. Going with Big Box retailers is the easy answer for ebay. Sure, they could create a platform with a built in tax system, or be innovative in some other way, but that's not how ebay operates. They decide what they need and they try to make it so. They said auctions were dead a couple of years ago, but that was just a rumor they started. ;)
I've thought, since 2005, that eBay would use Express for newly manufactured goods and move estate/vintage/antique/bulk to the auction platform.
But they didn't. This is what you get when a bunch of data crunching consultants run things.
Unfortunately for eBay, the changes forced some of us to to stop reevaluating our business plan every time they had a great new idea. We changed the way we do business on eBay and opted to strike out in favor of independence.
Some businesses decided to cater those of us whom eBay disenfranchised. We've learned a lot and left the light on for those who choose an independent path.
There's nothing eBay can do now to woo us back. Nothing.
@ AsilisArt: If that's their plan, I think it's a big mistake.
Big box is soooo last eon. People are finally starting to realize that mass produced junk, aka disposable items, are NOT the kinds of things we want in our homes.
I think the new economics, and the desire to go green will support this theory in a big way.
Not all new items are junk of course, but too much is.
I can't think of an antique, collectible or used item I've EVER purchased that I've been unhappy with or that broke the first time I used it.
What inexpensive brand new item have you purchased in the last 3 years that you still have?
@Troy, some good points Troy, but there is a huge amount of Auction Only sellers that will need, demand and support a viable auction platform.
Will it be eBay? Who knows, but I can guarantee that there will be enough of a demographic to support at least one online auction giant.
The question is, can there be more than one auction giant which will survive?
I've heard many times that no one will ever beat eBay. That may be very true, but you don't have to be successful to put a major hurt on your competition.
You can fail, and still hurt your competition.
Right now eBay is dying the death of a thousand cuts. There's no one other company that can give it a run for it's money, but as a conglomerated effort, they pretty much have the giant on it's knees.
One only needs to look at eBay's stock price to realize that.
BTW, I know that the stock market has take a hit everywhere, but if there is one company who's stock should have soared in the last 6 months with a bad economy, it should have been eBay.
They've got work to do. They need to reach out to their users, and more importantly, they need to make those users believe there's some sincerity this time.
Something they've not been able to do yet.
More importantly, eBay seems to have decided to don a corporate persona at a time when Big Biz is about as unpopular as it could get.
I'm honestly confused at that.
I'm still on eBay, but I tell people don't get mad, get other options, and every serious merchant should have at least their own basic web page as a contact site.
Thanks and good luck,
AW
eBay better get their auction business up and running again soon or they will go under. Amazon is giving them a sound thumping and eBay is not likely to overcome Amazon in the "Fixed Price" arena.
www.rexxindustrialparts.com
i call BS.
i am a 10 yr vet. i was a shareholder.
ebay is already lost. the well has been poisoned.
this is not about the stupid best match fiasco, the dsr garbage.
this is about a corporation that decided to squeeze themselves into another form without consideration for human beings. the sellers that built the place have no place in the new amazon-style company they have decided to become.
they have knowingly squeezed nickels and dimes out of each and every seller. they double dip with paypal and now shove it down our throats. they kicked guys - like me - with 99.8% lifetime, 4.8 avg dsr - off for no reason at all and when they reinstated us we found they amputated our business. cancelled 5000 listings. lost. income for months from ebay = 0.
not even a phone call to a guy that used to be good for $2000 a month in fees.
the filthy dogs. they are a souless corporation and their is nothing they can do to turn back the hands of time.
a pox on their house. i play at bonanzle now. made more money there this week than ebay in a month.
i call BS.
i am a 10 yr vet. i was a shareholder.
ebay is already lost. the well has been poisoned.
this is not about the stupid best match fiasco, the dsr garbage.
this is about a corporation that decided to squeeze themselves into another form without consideration for human beings. the sellers that built the place have no place in the new amazon-style company they have decided to become.
they have knowingly squeezed nickels and dimes out of each and every seller. they double dip with paypal and now shove it down our throats. they kicked guys - like me - with 99.8% lifetime, 4.8 avg dsr - off for no reason at all and when they reinstated us we found they amputated our business. cancelled 5000 listings. lost. income for months from ebay = 0.
not even a phone call to a guy that used to be good for $2000 a month in fees.
the filthy dogs. they are a souless corporation and their is nothing they can do to turn back the hands of time.
a pox on their house. i play at bonanzle now. made more money there this week than ebay in a month.
As soon as it became evident that eBay had Amazon envy and preferred the fixed price mass merchandise strategy over auctions (ostensibly because it offered growth and the auction market was mature), I came to the same conclusion as you did. I sold vintage collectibles actively on ebay for about five years, but they took all the fun and most of the profit out of it.
Separate auction and fixed price platforms is an obvious fix for them. Can they not see the forest for the trees? As a buyer I would much prefer this. And the true bargains were from small sellers who did not know how to market their items properly. I know I underpriced items greatly as I learned the ropes.
Many companies market fixed price merchandise on the web effectively and well. Besides Amazon, I have bought from Best Buy and Sears online in the past three weeks. Ebay has to compete with ALL of those merchandisers to get the huge share of sales they are seeking.
On the other hand eBay did auctions better than anyone. Just owned that market (still does, but how long until a real competitor steps up?) Apparently, because they could not determine a growth strategy for auctions, they would rather make it their cinderella stepchild while they chase their Amazon dreams.
I'd use ebay again if they create a whole separate auction world. That is what I liked about ebay. I think they could win me and a lot of folks back if they would do this. And stop forcing sellers to use paypal and free delivery, etc.
I used to sell on ebay about 2 years ago for about 3 or four years after the first year of working hard and doing everything from listing to shipping brought me to being a powerseller..due to hardships have quit selling but am looking back into this and am quite amazed at the changes that have entailed.
Was funny how I went to bank today and the guy helping me ended up telling me (and this he knew because I had that I do ebay on my app) mentioned his wife doing ebay and now getting out of it because of cost and their shipping changes, told me all about this site, so here I am reading all I can to try to make me a powerseller again..not needing status just an income to get back into, I do have a site I am doing right now with a webmaster and we are starting out small to try to drive traffic to us, if interested please look up www.yesufoundit I want so much to find a site much like ebay without the hassle they have caused
I don't think your comments above (to the writer of this column) will do a thing for ebay problems. Sellers are angry about DSRs, having to take Paypal, the fact they can leave no feedback, the high cost of selling on ebay etc etc. The comments you make are nothing that bothers anyone. I quit selling when ebay said 'Paypal or credit card payments only'. That was the last straw. I will not be scammed by Paypal. I never took it in 11 years and won't now. And the scamming that Paypal allows is another whole topic altogether. Add all this baloney up and its better to move on to other sites.
I found this article neither helpful or insightful. The simple problem with Ebay is greed, plain and simple. Forcing sellers to use their onlien bank for transactions is a bad business move. This measure was blocked in Austrailia and it should of been here. You can't sell a 20 dollar item on ebay and pay half of its worth to Ebay. The sellers wont sellers revolt, reducing both the quality and diversity of products you can find on Ebay. I myself have started using Bonanzle and found it much enjoyable to use.
@Kathy, thanks for your input. I've written quite a few things on eBay over the years and have sold on the site for 10 years and other sites for quite a while.
I certainly don't agree with everything they do, that's for sure.
However, I think stating that PayPal is "scamming" people is a bit over the line though.
Unless of course you have evidence that PayPal is doing something illegal, in which case I'd ask you to cite an example.
I disagree with your take on the idea that my suggestions will do nothing for the reasons that in order to institute some of my suggestions, by proxy they would have to install some of the fixed you've suggested.
One thing is for sure, the company has problems and it knows it.
Whether or not it will do what it needs to fix them, we'll see.
But if you tune in to an upcoming episode of the AuctionWally show, you can listen for answers as I interview Usher Lieberman, a head spokesman for eBay.
I'll be conducting the interview on Thursday and airing it shortly after.
Thanks for your comments.
@ Tony, I'm sorry you found the article neither helpful nor insightful.
I myself also use Bonanzle. By the way, did you know Bonanzle has it's own online radio show?
Yup, it's called Brainstorming Bonanzle, it airs on Monday nights and I host it along with co-host Phaedra.
Thanks for your input.
AW
Paypal feels more and more like an online scam all-together, because they are forcing you to choose Paypal. Now all they offer is Propay and Paypal both, with Paypal taking a majority of your profit.
This would explain why so many have switched to iOffer.com , Big Ticket Depot, Bonanzle, and also Dawdle.com
If you want to sell electronics or gaming equipment, you go with Dawdle or one of the new niche auction sites.
If you want to sell pure merchandise, you go with your own store and accept Amazon payments or Google Checkout using one of those services as a buffer.
And if you just want to sell anything, you go with ioffer.com and ebid.com, with a hefty dose of Craigslist on the side. The truth is you can sell everything at any of these places, all it takes is your own website- and alot of traffic.
With eBay you really can't. They may have the traffic Wally, but they don't offer the profit margins anymore. Most of it gets taken away by that horrible Payment service they own, greedy guys in suits, and in the end just pure listing fees.
Because they are requiring so much up front for listing fees, the plain truth is, you can't make hardly the profit you would through your own site store anyway.
Most of it's getting dumped into listing fees, there's no other option in that model. Period.
If they actually wanted to compete with the places where everyone decided to flock to, it would require them to get rid of the very expensive listing fees. I doubt that will happen. They don't want it, and as a result, they are going to be replaced.
@PointisObvious
I've not tried Big Ticket Depot or Dawdle.com yet.
I have tried and do like Bonanzle.com and have been having very good luck ther.
iOffer.com not so much. I gave that platform a good try about a year ago for 3 weeks straight and no luck. I left my listings up, but never got any hits.
I do see their listings coming up on Google Search very often, but they don't seem to convert.
Thanks so much for your input!
@PointisObvious
I've not tried Big Ticket Depot or Dawdle.com yet.
I have tried and do like Bonanzle.com and have been having very good luck ther.
iOffer.com not so much. I gave that platform a good try about a year ago for 3 weeks straight and no luck. I left my listings up, but never got any hits.
I do see their listings coming up on Google Search very often, but they don't seem to convert.
Thanks so much for your input!
Paypal feels more and more like an online scam all-together, because they are forcing you to choose Paypal. Now all they offer is Propay and Paypal both, with Paypal taking a majority of your profit.
This would explain why so many have switched to iOffer.com , Big Ticket Depot, Bonanzle, and also Dawdle.com
If you want to sell electronics or gaming equipment, you go with Dawdle or one of the new niche auction sites.
If you want to sell pure merchandise, you go with your own store and accept Amazon payments or Google Checkout using one of those services as a buffer.
And if you just want to sell anything, you go with ioffer.com and ebid.com, with a hefty dose of Craigslist on the side. The truth is you can sell everything at any of these places, all it takes is your own website- and alot of traffic.
With eBay you really can't. They may have the traffic Wally, but they don't offer the profit margins anymore. Most of it gets taken away by that horrible Payment service they own, greedy guys in suits, and in the end just pure listing fees.
Because they are requiring so much up front for listing fees, the plain truth is, you can't make hardly the profit you would through your own site store anyway.
Most of it's getting dumped into listing fees, there's no other option in that model. Period.
If they actually wanted to compete with the places where everyone decided to flock to, it would require them to get rid of the very expensive listing fees. I doubt that will happen. They don't want it, and as a result, they are going to be replaced.
Forgot to say that ioffer converts perfectly, if you really have the traffic directed to your site instead.
Most of the time you may have items/auctions on ioffer and if you use SEO marketing, by directing that traffic directly through your store, then it converts. iOffer is great for most items, even though the site doesn't have the same traffic.
So if you can combine it with your own site traffic, (versus ebay or ubid) it's always very useful. Have gotten regular sales there. But only when you have that necessary site traffic.
Paypal is a scam and they do not even honor their own user agreement and I do have proof.
I had a buyer who filed a claim that the item was not as described due to the fact it was not of the same quality as another item (different) she bought somewhere else.
As I had no idea what this other product was or maker and no info was given it would be very hard to supply such a product to a customer.
Nothing in our description implied it was like any other product and simply described our product being sold. It would sort of like trying to compare shampoos by different companies (we dont sell shampoo by the way) as an example.
Anyway paypal decided in the buyers favor even though in their dispute comments that they left they complained of a quality issue.
We pointed out to paypal that according to the user agreement that if a product does not meet a buyers expectations then it is not a valid claim of item not as described.
It did not matter. Paypal gave them full refund.
I have more horror stories from personal experience on how paypal had defrauded us and violated their own user agreement that we are required to adhere to yet they do not.
Paypal is a joke and a scam for all sellers.
As for splitting the site up forget it. Do you not remember ebay express?
Forget the fixed price and just bring back stores to the search matrix.
Get rid of best match and other criteria that manipulate placement.
If you pay listing fees you should have as much exposure as the next guy. That is only fair.
What if newspapers or magazines ran their business that way. If they take your money to place your ad and then dont run it they have to refund you. Ebay is taking peoples advertising money and basically stealing it.
Even worse they are putting sellers ads in placements ahead of your and they are not even paying for the listing fees! (see diamond sellers).
If this does not fall under some sort of illegal scam I dont know what does!
As for splitting the site up forget it. Do you not remember ebay express?
Forget the fixed price and just bring back stores to the search matrix.
Get rid of best match and other criteria that manipulate placement.
If you pay listing fees you should have as much exposure as the next guy. That is only fair.
What if newspapers or magazines ran their business that way. If they take your money to place your ad and then dont run it they have to refund you. Ebay is taking peoples advertising money and basically stealing it.
Even worse they are putting sellers ads in placements ahead of your and they are not even paying for the listing fees! (see diamond sellers).
If this does not fall under some sort of illegal scam I dont know what does!
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