Shooter George Sodini
A gunman named George Sodini shot up an LA Fitness gym in Pittsburgh, killing three women and injuring many more before ultimately turning the gun on himself. Sodini had left some clues to his mental state on many blog postings:
December 31, 2008:
Now that I am on the topic of family and people I know, I might as well make a summary of sorts to show where things stand. This is New Years Eve I have time, no date tonight of course, so:
Honorable mention:
Tetelestai Church in Pittsburgh, PA – “Be Ye Holy, even as I have been Ye holy! Thus saith the lord thy God!”, as pastor Rick Knapp would proclaim. Holy —-, religion is a waste. But this guy teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him. Call him at [phone number]. If no answer there, he should still live at [address]. In any case, guilt and fear kept me there 13 long years until Nov 2006. I think his crap did the most damage. Their web site: http://www.tetelestai.org.
…
August 3, 2009:
… Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.
Now whenever stories like this pop up, it’s always important to establish that the guy was crazy from the start, so I’m not saying that religion carries all or even most of the blame here.
However, that being said, it seems impossible to ignore the fact that religion was so easily used by the killer to justify his actions. And such a justification would not be a mere twisting of religious dogma (as I’m sure many religious will be claiming tomorrow), but indeed fits with passages in the Bible and the teachings of many Christian evangelicals.
Of course religious leaders weren’t telling Sodini to kill anyone. But again, he justified his actions using a perfectly valid reading of church teachings and not just a misinterpretation. The truth is that many evangelicals DO teach that reaching Heaven has no basis in whether one is a good person or not on Earth but is strictly determined by whether one accepts Jesus into their hearts or declares themselves a follower of Jesus. And that is a very dangerous message.
The loophole evangelicals like to use is that if someone continues to sin then that’s a sign that they haven’t truly accepted Jesus or they’re not a “true Christian.” However, the problem here is that according to them, all sin is equally bad as their god can’t tolerate anything short of absolute perfection. So when I ask them if they still have lust in their hearts and they respond that they do, I point out that by their own standards, they’re no less a sinner than a guy who might continue to murder people while still claiming to be a true Christian. I’ve also heard many a evangelical admit to me that if Hitler had a deathbed confession he’d get to go to Heaven while his Jewish victims would still burn in Hell unless they converted to Christianity before they died. I've also gotten many evangelicals to admit that if they truly believed their god ordered them to rape or murder someone without explanation, they'd happily obey those orders. This is what evangelicals like to call “Objective Morality.”
So according to common evangelical teachings, Sodini may very well be in Heaven while any of his non-Christian victims may be in Hell.
Again, I don’t want to place all the blame squarely on religion. Surely other factors existed and the man was deranged anyway. But perhaps what religion did do is remove in him the barrier of fear of punishment, the seeming inevitable philosophical outcome of the belief that rewards and punishment are merely determined by degree of faith as opposed to one’s actual moral behavior. Sodini seemed to believe his crime would have no eternal negative consequences for him if he believed the right thing. This perhaps reduced his inhabitions enough to commit the crime.
Now I of course hear all the time that atheists have no objective basis of morality and therefore atheists have nothing to discourage them from wrongdoing, and quite frankly, I find this accusation ignorant and absurd. First of all, morality doesn't come from any gods, nor from the belief in any gods. It derives from mostly evolutionary origins and our ability to feel empathy and sympathy for others. Second, atheists typically believe that there is no eternal afterlife and that this is the only life we'll ever have. So fear of punishment by an earthly law enforcement is just as much a deterant from criminal behavior as the fear of punishment in the afterlife. And if you happen to think like Sodini and believe that moral behavior isn't the criteria in which one is judged in the afterlife, then the fear of earthly law enforcement makes a better deterant from crime.
Perhaps Sodini still would have found something to justify his actions had he not been religious. We’ll never know for sure. But in a more secular humanist society that actively promoted critical thinking, I think he’d have his work cut out for him.
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
-Steven Weinberg
Comments
Or what if he was an atheist? - again, no fear of punishment whatsoever. Have you thought about that?
Do you think that 'no fear of punishment' has ever been a factor in a murder?
Just playing 'Devil's advocate' here ...
I think religion was implicated in the 9/11 atrocity too
A lot of my friends ask me the question "What do you have to live for as an atheist? If nothing lies after death, what is the point of anything?" But this only makes me want to enjoy my life more and have a good time while I'm here. It is my only opportunity so I try to make the most of it.
Having "no fear of punishment" in an afterlife does not make me want to do evil things. Losing my life would equate to a loss of everything for me and that is what prevents me from doing terrible things. Because life is all we have.
While it is horrible that he has taken innocent lives in his killing spree, I can see how someone could get shut off from the world and feel alone. It could become a vicious cycle where you become sad that you are alone and without friends and then people become less likely to befriend you because you are down all the time.
It is a shame that things like this happen. Always try to be nice and try to brighten someone's day. You never know how they may feel
The difference is that, for example, Christianity can absolutely condemn these actions whilst atheism cannot and atheist individuals can only appeal to their personal preferences against such actions.
Atheism is merely the disbelief in any of the purported God(s)ess(es) due to a lack of evidence for them.
It isn't a word that addresses human behavior in any way, much like the word "theism".
That said, Christianity is rife with descriptive examples of a foundational deity behaving in much the same way, and with many of the same motives, as Sodini.
Namely, jealousy and spite.
So, in my view, to assert that "Christianity can absolutely condemn these actions" is utterly false based on the scripture and behavior models of that particular god.
Wow. The author of this essay may be the most misinformed, sophomoric dunce to ever pen a piece for publication.
I love the fact that a guy who bills himself as a Reverend has NOTHING positive to contribute. Only derision! Go Christians! Way to show your TRUE Colors! Hey Rev, how about a thoughtful and informative reply for us poor, misguided skeptics?
Listen fools. Atheists do have ABSOLUTE morality. Falsehood is ABSOLUTELY wrong no matter how slight. That's why you are perceived as either credulous fools or willful liars. Your god is all made up to make you feel better about your ignorance. Perpetrating harm on others is also ABSOLUTELY wrong you knuckleheads.
Now go pray for forgiveness and see what happens. We, on the other hand, will continue to RECOGNIZE our personal responsibility for our behavior and NEVER seek FALSE ABSOLUTION from that cultural apparition you call 'god'.
Poor saps....
A kind rebuttal has been written at www dot Thinking Through Christianity dot com.
Thanks for the link.
I have responded there as well.
Cool!
Many people use scripture and various religions to justify their actions and lack of actions. People also distort law, political views and other texts to justify actions. While you state that religion itself is not to blame, you point out scripture that you say could have justified the actions of this man - in his mind. What do you know of scripture? Have you actually studied it with an open heart or just with a skeptical brain?
I agree with the Rev. You are highly misinformed, as was this killer. Yes there are Christians, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists...a portion of people from all religions, including the religion and cult called Atheism, who are mentally ill and will use anything to justify their actions. End of story. Other than that...where is the truth that backs up your article headline? Where was religion 'implicated' in these murders? Guess not all atheists know what truth is either. Thanks for making that point.
Nice analysis. Thanks.
The Rev. Bartels' comment is typical of many I've gotten in the past. I highly recommend adding a sidebar saying that you will take down any comments that are personally abusive of you or any of your other readers. While a person's own stupidity may shine through in such remarks, I decided that I didn't need to be subjected to abuse, nor did anyone writing well-thought-out bona fide commentary, pro or con. I also think preventing abuse from littering cyberspace, from a quantum physics point of view, is also one of our important functions, those of us who view the universe with intent to inject some logic and love, in the agape sense, into it.
Glad I found you; looking forward to reading you again.
Though I disagree with its conclusions, I'm glad that this article includes the belief that "if someone continues to sin then that’s a sign that...they’re not a “true Christian."" This doctrine would, in fact, be my primary argument against the killer's belief that he would go to heaven even though he willfully committed murder. The author responds by saying that this doctrine is insufficient due to the way Christianity considers all sins as equal, making it impossible to decide who should be considered a "sinner" or a "Christian" since all professing Christians struggle with some type of sin.
In response to this, I can only say that Christian conversion should include a total change of heart and mindset, so that while we may still struggle with our former proclivities toward certain sins, it seems impossible that we would willfully and remorselessly pursue those sins. But, this is a difficult issue that is a source of much debate even within the church.
Didn't Hitler live and die a true believing Roman Catholic?
"Gott Mit Uns" and all that stuff.
No need for him to convert. By christian (faulty)logic he was always going to heaven anyway.
Ok, let's see if we can follow the logic here:
A) A church denies that actions have consequences and takes a moral life out of the equation, promoting that an amoral life won't effect someone reaching heaven.
B) Man commits murder, thinking his actions do not have consequences beyond the earthly realm (which he is escaping by suicide).
Conclusion: we should have a secular, nonreligoius society.
Really? We should just take the question of morality and eternal consequence out of the equation, and that would... somehow help? Wouldn't we still have a worldview that denies that actions have consequences and takes a moral life out of the equation, promoting that an amoral life won't effect any sort of afterlife? Won't the man still commit murder, thinking his actions do not have consequences beyond the earthly realm (which he is escaping by suicide)?
I'm not trying to be rude. I just have to ask: how is this helping?
The negative consequence would be in the destroying of the only life one will ever have. Without suicide, that might mean wasting the rest of one's entire existence in prison. With suicide, there's every reason to think the consequence would be oblivion, ceasing to exist entirely in any form. Now certainly that is not sufficient to deter all negative behavior but it's definitely a strong negative consequence.
Thanks for the advice, Laura. I have just added a comment policy modeled on the one you used, which should momentarily appear on the side bar.
Though I think I'll keep Rev. Bartels' comment up there because it does far more damage to his credibility than anything I could ever say in response.
I encourage everyone to check out Laura's articles as well. Just look up the DC Ethical Issues Examiner.
I would just like to remind everyone to check out the parallel conversation taking place at the "Thinking through Christianity" blog mentioned below.
No offense, Michael, but I've consistently found that the word count per post of The Examiner resource to be frustratingly limited and so distracting.
Thanks for the great original submission, by the way, it is important that we have an opportunity to examine these very sensitive issues in a civil manner while understanding that we are taking a glimpse into very emotionally comforting themes for many good and caring folks.
Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that simply being an atheist or refuting religious claims even in the most polite and analytical of ways risks being perceived as an insult, by default.
Still, my experience is that silence implies consent and we really can work to treat each other better even when we disagree.
This is such a poorly researched article. You might as well blame the gun for these murders, because they are equally as responsible as the church is.
Article would be much better if you explained how a mentally ill narcissist twisited "good bible doctrine" into what he wanted it to mean. Think about it... you take what you hear at church and it has it's own special meaning to you. Everyone takes away someting different.
Explain the disesase this sick man had and quit blaming a church.
Ken,
I think that there has been a reasoned examination/expression of Sodini's obvious mental problems along with the distinct implication of a connection with ordinary and commonly accepted Christian dogma, such as Original Sin and Salvation.
This shouldn't be denied or dismissed away as if it doesn't exist. It certainly doesn't take a studious dissertation or scholarly effort to recognize these connections.
Sodini was influenced by everyday Christian claims regarding the conundrum of salvation via faith vs. good works.
Jesus Christ was someone George Sodini obviously admired.
This is a place for dialogue on those issues after all.
That said, I am interested in your interpretation of what is "good Bible doctrine"?
I have often wondered if Christians believe they can do anything and still get to heaven, as long as they "believe." Considering the number of sexual sins they commit, it seems they do think that beliefs are more important than behaviors. I've personally known a few fundies who think nothing of lying or deceiving other people yet are sure they're morally superior to atheists.
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