PZ Myers visits the Creation "Museum"
I first heard of PZ Myers when he became known for being the man who was literally expelled from a screening of the creationist mockumentary Expelled. . .despite not doing anything wrong and actually being one of the stars of the film.
Now he can add being expelled from the Creation “Museum” to his resume. Well, actually he wasn’t expelled; it was some of the atheists he was with that were expelled from the “museum” and another atheist he was with that was harrassed by the “museum’s” security staff.
It all began several weeks ago when PZ Myers along with the Secular Student Alliance (SSA) decided to organize a mass group of atheists, scientists, and other secular thinkers to all visit the Creation “Museum” together to see for themselves what they’ve been criticizing and, I imagine, to draw media attention to the affair. And they certainly got ABC's attention. At last count, I know there were 240 people planning on joining them. And the number had probably grown since then.
Of course the Creation “Museum” officials were getting worried and wrote to Myers and the SSA warning them against misbehaving. . .as if they had any reason to think those attending this event would misbehave. That letter can be read on the link just above. And according to Myers and at least one of my other sources that attended, aside from joking to each other about the ridiculous nonsense in the “museum”, no one misbehaved. But that didn’t seem to stop “museum” officials from harassing individuals and eventually kicking a few people out of the “museum” for imaginary infractions:
Essentially, it seems the “museum” feels that merely disagreeing with its “science” and mocking it to one’s friends is grounds for having visitors removed from the property. This is absurd. Could you imagine if the American Museum of Natural History ejected visitors for being creationists? Or if the Museum of Modern Art ejected visitors for critiquing the art or mocking Jackson Pollack’s work quietly with their friends? It would never happen. That’s because REAL museums are tools for education and don’t try to control how its visitors think.
Comments
No, we only have universities with professors that kick you out of classes for disagreeing. I agree with you though that it is absurd.
They went there to provoke a response...now they don't like the response the got so the are whining.
The only cogent question is...is that museum a private business or is it publicly funded? If it is a private museum, the proprietors were well within their rights.
Atheist thugs incapable of respecting the beliefs of others.
I must have missed the bit where they were "whining" about being expelled from this particular roadside attraction, but perhaps I am not as perceptive as "catswold". They went to the museum to provoke a reaction and to call attention to the junk science it is peddling. Only time will tell if they succeeded.
He didn't get kicked out because of any opposition he managed to muster up...
They kicked him out because he's a wet noodle...and so were the others standing around "wet noodleling" about silly things.
You just want to smack the guy and tell him to "Man Up!"
I Hate it when the "right" acts like the "left". In any event, all you're hearing is his side of the story. Sounds suspiciously like "who me?" If he was innocent of being disruptive then think of all the anti-obamaites who have received even worse treatment at the hands of obama supporters. Payback's a bitch. The difference here is the payback isn't government supported.
I think it's great they got kicked out. More publicity to show how STUPID this museum really is. Not just incorrect.. not just humorous.. but truly STUPID with capital letters.
I think they're still traumatized by this guy's visit:
buffalobeast.com/117/let_there_be_retards.htm
I do not appreciate the "scare quotes" around the words 'museum' in the article. The Creation Museum is an actual museum. The use of scare quotes is designed to disdain the legitimacy of the word so quoted and is not an appropriate journalistic tool. It is the opposite: mocking. Either the writer is objective or he is not. If he is objective, then he should simply report the facts without the help and aid of misused punctuation and other slimy (and noticeable) tools to lead the reader into the writer's desired conclusion that confirms his bias.
FROM: a Journalist
"The Creation Museum is an actual museum." I couldn't agree more, it is a museum to Usans stupidity, and yet another reminder of how retarded and ignorant are most of those who populate that portion of America.
He was wearing a tee shirt that said 'There's probably no God'. It is just not politically correct to wear some attire to some places: I would not wear a tee shirt mocking slavery to visit a 'museum' of slave quarters, etc. I would not wear a tee shirt overtly making fun of gays to a gay bar. I would not wear a confederate flag tee shirt to a Black bar. And when I visit the Civil War Museum here in the South, I don't loudly voice my opinions so that others who are there, who would not agree, would have to hear me. It's called respect of others' feelings and beliefs. This guy is an Agitator. I'm glad he was asked to leave - it wasn't fair to all those who went to honestly study and appreciate their beliefs on Creation. Christians have become the new group to hate on.
2 Peter 3
In the Last Days
1 -2 My dear friends, this is now the second time I've written to you, both letters reminders to hold your minds in a state of undistracted attention. Keep in mind what the holy prophets said, and the command of our Master and Savior that was passed on by your apostles.
3 -4First off, you need to know that in the last days, mockers are going to have a heyday. Reducing everything to the level of their puny feelings, they'll mock, "So what's happened to the promise of his Coming? Our ancestors are dead and buried, and everything's going on just as it has from the first day of creation. Nothing's changed."
5 -7They conveniently forget that long ago all the galaxies and this very planet were brought into existence out of watery chaos by God's word. Then God's word brought the chaos back in a flood that destroyed the world. The current galaxies and earth are fuel for the final fire. God is poised, ready to speak his word again, ready to give t
Just post the genetic evidence of evolution to prove your point or start considering creationism.
I read the ABC version of the story and no one got kicked out. One man was asked to turn his inappropriate t-shirt inside out so the slogan didn't show. He did. That's about it. In fact, belying the incendiary nature of your article headline, there was collegial discussion between believers and non-believers. Again, as with the inappropriate use of scare quotes, your article is misleading in the facts and shows evident bias.
They clearly went their to make fun of the Museum. What else was their point? They had no right to be there. They were guests and if the management of the Museum don't feel like having people come in and laugh at them they have every right to throw them off their property...
PZ Meyers is the one who desecrated a consecrated host a couple years back. It was interesting to watch these cretins speculate about what level of disrespect would likely get them tossed out. The point is that they are on the sidewalk where they belong.
"Could you imagine if the American Museum of Natural History ejected visitors for being creationists?", asks the author.
Yes, I can imagine. If a bunch of creationists "decided to organize a mass group... to see for themselves what they’ve been criticizing and... to draw media attention to the affair". I think it very likley the museum would be prepared to refuse admittance or take action should the group become unruly.
So what is your point? That Creationists are treated more fairly than atheists? The mocking tone of your article suggests otherwise.
Jace, what universities are you referring to? That doesn't sound like a very reputable school. I've never heard of any reputable academic institution kicking out students for merely disagreeing with the professor. If a professor has done this, you should report them at once.
catswold,
I never claimed the Creation "Museum" didn't have the legal right to kick out whoever they please. That's not the argument. Please reread the article I wrote instead of the article you imagined.
I Flagged Your Article,
Good for you. If you can't challenge a person on intellectual grounds, you should always try to silence their opinions w/ censorship. That's the creationist way!
As for the scare quotes, they're entirely apt. As this whole incident illustrates fairly well, the Creation "Museum" is as much a museum as $cientology's Phychiatry: Industry of Death "Museum" as in it's a museum in name only.
The "fool" has said in his heart there is no God.
the quotes are to make sure you understand that is exactly what God said in His Word
NY Atheism & Skepticism Examiner:
Could you please explain how you were "censored" by a readers remarks? There is no evidence of censorship or attempted censorship here. What the hell are you referring to?
Being challenged by an alternative viewpoint doesn't equate to censorship. In any case, a private citizen who disagrees with you could not possibly be charged with "censorship". That term applies only to Government. Your rush to a charge of censorship reveals that you are both a victim and a dimwit.
Still a nation of whiners. Atheist whiners. Sob.
NY Atheism & Skepticism Examiner says to
I Flagged Your Article,
"Good for you. If you can't challenge a person on intellectual grounds, you should always try to silence their opinions w/ censorship."
I have standards. That is a good thing. I called for a fair and unbiased article: that is not censorship, that is appropriate reporting.
I think it is sad that you cannot engage in a debate without mocking and derision. Intellectual grounds? OK how 'bout this: the missing link has never been found. The Big Bang has never been reproduced. The Large Hadron Collider is epic fail. If there are millions of years of evolution, where are all the human fossils? Etc.
Please engage but please do not deride. It is not becoming an "intellectual." (Are the scare quotes "apt" now?)
Quotes from the Creation Museums response:
"...despite our clear sign next to the Triceratops model downstairs (which is not in the museum exhibit area), where it stated this was a photo op and that children under 12 could get on, some SSA members hopped on anyway. Our head of security went downstairs to stop that activity when he heard of it. The prof got on, too, but insisted that he only saw the children’s sign after he got on!"
"The prof and a few dozen of his followers walked off the grounds and held a rally in front of the museum entrance. There, a ram’s horn was blown (I suppose this was borrowing from Joshua 6 when a ram’s horn was blown, signally that the walls of Jericho were to come tumbling down. I guess it was their “statement” that the SSA had “conquered” the museum, but I did not hear what was said). Also, our security staff indicated that a mock communion service was held out front where crackers and cheese were served. Mocking the death and resurrection..."
Quotes from the Museum's response:
"Only one person—the videographer—was ushered out."
"Each SSA visitor agreed that they would not be disruptive to our guests (and thankfully that was the case with most of them), that they “would behave in a courteous and respectful manner to all museum staff, visitors, and media” and that they would “abide by all Creation Museum policies and staff instructions” (to use the words that the SSA composed themselves). Some of them sadly failed to abide by their signed agreement not to be disruptive..."
Michael, I need to warn you, be careful. Be very careful. I have a feeling God is not far from you. Another highly intelligent, former atheist (C.S. Lewis) was pursued by God for years while he was ridiculing and blaspheming His Name. He was a great reader of books and had a voracious appetite for knowledge, and God took advantage. C.S. Lewis, after his glorious conversion to Christianity, said this about his pursuit for more knowledge: "I did not know what I was letting myself in for. A young man who wishes to remain a sound Atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. There are traps everywhere.... God is, if I may say it, very unscrupulous."
Still waiting for an argument explaining First Cause. If there was a Big Bang, where did the stuff that went "bang" come from?
Also, I agree with ynot4tony2. This is one of the worst excuses for journalism....sorry, "journalism" I've ever seen.
"News" FAIL.
rexbatt, over 200 scientists and students didn't travel from across the country and across the continent to just mock the creationists. That's absurd. I suspect their reasons were more about seeing it for themselves & drawing attention to this national embarrassment. And as far as I can tell from every report I've heard, none of them did anything to warrant being thrown out, though I'm sure some were hoping for that very overreaction, which only further illustrates how uninterested the creationist officials are in engaging dissenting views.
And where do you get off saying they had no right to be there? They paid for their tickets like everyone else & did not misbehave. One guy were a rather unoffensive t-shirt, was told to turn it inside out because it was offensive, and he did as he was asked. And people were criticizing the exhibits to their friends. That hardly deserves being thrown out.
azKenReid,
You don't even know what you're talking about. First of all, it was just last year, and he didn't "desecrate a consecrated host." He threw away a cracker and photographed it in the trash.
I've been to that museum. There's a sign next to the triceratops upon which P.Z Myers (I assume that is he) is sitting that says it's only for children under 12.
Too bad he couldn't behave like a grown-up.
russtopher,
Creationists organized mass trips to the science museums ALL THE TIME! (youtube com/watch?v=9D8AeiAamjY ) And to date, I've never heard of a single incident of even one of them being thrown out. So your argument doesn't really stand up to evidence. The Creation "Museum" teaches kids factually incorrect information that is demonstrably false. So they are given the same level of respect afforded anyone dishonestly teaching lies to children.
AzKenReid,
The censorship I was referring to was in relation to the commenter who called himself "I Flagged Your Article", which I took to mean that he actually flagged my article without proper cause. Mere disagreement with an author's opinion is not legitimate grounds for flagging their article.
"I Flagged Your Article",
This article is an editorial. If you want non-biased, I gave you the link to the ABC piece covering the story. Creationism has already been proven objectively wrong & the debate is over. So no, I'm not interested in pretending biblical creationism is still a reasonable hypothesis requiring debate any more than Holocaust denial. Your claim that the Big Bang needs to be reproduced in order to be proven is absurd, shows your total lack of understanding as to how science works & is an offense to human intelligence. As is your absurd comment about human fossils. You shall be treated w/ the same respect afforded all other denialists.
PZ Myers is well-known for being a confrontational atheist with a blatant and easily detectable animus toward theists. Your comment that he simply threw away a cracker and photographed it reveals your own inability to withdraw from your own emotional investment in anti-creationism. Had Myers simply been doing so, he would not have taken the time to write an accompanying screed and photo essay. He did so to mock Catholic beliefs and rather gleefully, I might add. Myers claimed it was "just a cracker" so it's OK to desecrate what is a sacred symbol to someone else. By this logic, it's A-OK to spray paint your grandma's grave with rude language because it is just a slab of marble. Showing up at the Creation Museum is yet another opportunity to slander someone else's beliefs and revel in one's own intellectual superiority. Congrats to Myers, I'm sure he has his slavish followers and ardent admirers. Almost like he's running his own little religion.
Kevin,
If you're "still waiting for an argument explaining First Cause," I recommend THAT YOU ACTUALLY LOOK. First of all, if you even knew the first thing about the Big Bang, then you'd know that it's not literally describing a bang at all. But you haven't even gotten that far because YOU DON'T CARE WHAT'S TRUE. All you care about is attacking those who criticize your belief that everything magically poofed into existence fully formed as is described in the Bible. Put down your Bible and and pick up a science book some time. I recommend trying Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time." There are also many other books. Hell, you could benefit from just looking up the Big Bang in Wikipedia.
I'm an editorial writer, not a journalist. Good luck on that whole pretending to be interested in the truth.
And Elaina,
I need to warn you, be careful. Be very careful. I have a feeling The Flying Spaghetti Monster is not far from you. Other highly intelligent, former deniers of the FSM were pursued by the FSM for years while they were ridiculing and blaspheming His Name. They were readers of the Bible and had a voracious appetite for faith, and the FSM took advantage. They, after their glorious conversion to Pastafarianism, said this about their pursuit for more knowledge: "I did not know what I was letting myself in for. A young man who wishes to remain a sound denial of the FSM cannot be too careful of his reading. There are traps everywhere.... The FSM is, if I may say it, very unscrupulous."
Jana,
Yes, it is okay to throw away a cracker even though other people may think it's a magic cracker and worship it like a god. You give a false analogy since the grave obviously does not belong to the vandal, while the cracker was freely given. I'm going to have to call for evidence that they committed slander, which by definition requires the damaging claims to be false.
I Flagged Your Article writes:
"I read the ABC version of the story and no one got kicked out. One man was asked to turn his inappropriate t-shirt inside out so the slogan didn't show. He did. That's about it. In fact, belying the incendiary nature of your article headline, there was collegial discussion between believers and non-believers. Again, as with the inappropriate use of scare quotes, your article is misleading in the facts and shows evident bias."
As a matter of fact, one person did get escorted out of the museum. The entire SSA conference was being filmed for a documentary. The person filming was kicked out after he refused to stop filming a confrontation between a student with the group and Looy of AIG. That student was given a "final warning" however he was ushered out of the building, while allowed to remain on the premises.
Interesting. This seems very one sided to me. It's an article of She said - She said.
Let's see, we accuse someone, bring them before court, then do not let the accused defend themselves. Where is the interview with the ones inside the museum. The fact that it is one sided, leads me to conclude that something went on inside the museum that the writer of the article does not want us to know. I wonder if the writer is trying to manipulate the people be with holding facts. Is this how the atheists want to convince people they are right? That there science requires you to ignore facts. I wonder
NY Atheism & Skepticism Examiner:
It seemed longer than that to me. Yes, you are correct, he desecrated the host just last year. That being said, it makes no sense to argue with a moron who claims he is a victim of censorship even as he types. You are not a victim of censorship, but judging from your photo, you are perhaps a victim of downs.
russtopher - The atheists weren't unruly. In fact, they went out of their way not to be. To have a group of over 300 people and not have them get out of hand at all is almost a miracle (or just civilized non-believers).
Atheists can often be such seriously arrogant whiners. These are the same people that spend their money on scarlet "A" t-shirts, Darwin fish, silly ad campaigns, and take long trips across the country to get some face-time with their cult-leader "PZ" and ridicule religion together. They long for community with "like-minded" folks because they have no actual friends because of their constant fundamentalist rants against all things religion, not realizing that they are becoming the thing they despise.
If you came to my home with the express purpose of mocking the things found therein, I'd most assuredly throw your ass back out on the street where you could then discuss alternate endings to Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica or think up more awesome t-shirt slogans or ad campaigns that no cares about.
The "Brights" on the video are giddy with excitement that they were "expelled" and long to get back to their parent's basement to blog about it to their vastly small readership of 2.
Oh, for the record, the ABC piece had at least one of their facts wrong. I find it interesting that an unnamed "journalist" would take so much issue with an editorial and not take any issue at all with a major news agency misreporting the facts.
*Still* waiting for an argument explaining First Cause.
Truth FAIL.
You're right Kevin I don't see anyone explaining what caused God.
People have really have weird recollections of Crackergate.
In response to the gross over reaction from various parts of the catholic church to a guy taking his wafer back to his seat rather than eat it straight away, PZ Myers drove a nail through a host, a page of the Koran, and a page of The God Delusion, and threw them into the trash. Pretty much just to show that nothing is sacred.
scienceblogs dot com/pharyngula/2008/07/the_great_desecration.php
This is nothing. Try Atheist Ostracized From Atheist Group for having a minority view with the fake Atheist Nexus www . myspace . com/basic_atheist, and a little bit of the details at www . examiner . com/x-2044-Atheism-Examiner~y2009m8d5-Is-atheist-rapper-Charlie-Checkm-a-bigot-and-a-homophobe-or-do-we-just-disagree
I'm not aware of any materialist explanation for First Cause in Myers, Dennett, Dawkins, or Gould. There's plenty wrong with 'creationist. Sneering at folks of faith isn't likely to win many converts. The argument for science is rock solid. If there was an dialogue between folks of faith and those more scientifically grounded, so much the better. Was Myers actually ejected?
I liked atheists better when they weren't more self-righteous and obnoxious than Christians.
Sorry, but it's private property and the owners have every right to toss PZ out on his ass. Don't believe it? Go read the Constitution.
Only two of the 285 atheists visiting the museum were asked to leave. There were over 2,000 people in the building at the time, so their group was not that big of a problem. FYI, the picture of the "riding dinosaur" is not a part of the museum exhibitions, but is a special model in the children's exhibition. There was a sign on it that it was only for children 12 and younger. That may explain why the group also conducted a Communion Service the group performed in front of the museum. Children will be children.
"I'm an editorial writer, not a journalist. Good luck on that whole pretending to be interested in the truth."
Which would explain why you feel confident and intelligent accusing other people of not practicing science without realizing that you are in no way practicing it yourself. Aren't you late for a TA session or something?
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