I received an e-mail yesterday telling me that President Obama plans sign a National Day of Prayer proclamation. As you might imagine, this dismays (to put it mildly) many secularists, humanists, and atheists across the nation. Hasn't this country been under the influence of religion and pointless prayer for long enough for the point to have been driven home that this approach doesn't work? We just came out of one of the darkest periods in this country's history and the country is in a shambles. Doesn't that tell us anything? Will we ever learn? It is time to move away from the nonsensical stranglehold that religion has on this country. Proclaiming yet another National Day of Prayer is a move in the wrong direction.
With this proclamation on the horizon, many are beginning to wonder if all of the president's mentions of non-believers and the like have merely been lip service. Sure, he mentioned us in his inaugural address, but that inauguration also included a religious invocation and benediction, one of which was delivered by the controversial hater and bigot, Rick Warren.
He gave us a place at the table during his transition and has invited us to be a part of the discussion about the previous administration's faith-based initiative. But he kept the faith-based initiative intact. And, he appointed a committee that is comprised mostly of religious folk - who stand to benefit from the program - to oversee the program.
While he was in Turkey, he made the point that this is not a Christian nation. But now he is on the verge of proclaiming a National Day of Prayer.
We had hoped for more from a President who is a scholar of the US Constitution. We expected him to understand that government should not favor or promote religion over non-religion and that there should be a wall of separation between church and state. And, although he may very well understand these things as his words at times have indicated, some of his actions seem to indicate that he doesn't care.
It seems clear that what this nation needs is an officially proclaimed National Day of Reason (there is an unofficial one that coincides with the National Day of Prayer) so that our lawmakers might be encouraged to pause to reflect on why a National Day of Prayer is wrong.
More on this topic:
'National Day of Prayer' proponents to defend day against 'radicals'
There he goes again: A response to 'National Day of Prayer under attack'
National Day of Reason vs National Day of Prayer
Comments
Prayer is not pointless. Your opinion on prayer being pointless is just that... an opinion. Lest we forget, this country was built on the Christian faith. 'In God We Trust' has been this country's motto since 1956. Thomas Jefferson professed his belief in God a year before the signing of the Declaration Of Independence. September 17th, 1796, George Washington said, 'It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.' Try reading his prayer at the Valley Forge. Benjamin Franklin was a believer in God. And many other great people of our American history. These are the people who you have to thank for your freedom now. According to the first amendment we have the right to religious freedom. As do you. No one will ever force you to pray. Ever. If you are expressing your anger and frustration of Christians who supposedly are trying to force their faith on you with their opinions, perhaps you should ask yourself what you are doing with yours.
@Matt; Great post! You hit that one out of the park!!
What made this country great was the social, economic, and religious freedom to let people express themselves however is most appropriate for themselves. This attracts the best and brightest from around the world and creates a innovative culture. In some religions, prayer doesn't play a part and it is in our best interest to uphold the separation from church and state ideal.
Matt
The USA was not built on the Christian faith and has in fact signed treaties to that effect (The treaty of Tripoli for example.)
In fact the revolution was against the religion of the day - instead of having God select who gets born to the American royal family, you have no royal family, and the people of America are given the power to choose their own leaders.
The US Constitution, specifically makes a person's religion irrelevant to whether they can hold public office. The president can be a satanist and his belief would not bar him from office.
The first ammendment does not actually say that you have free religion, what it says is that the state may not establish a religion. That means the state itself, may not promote religion.
That this has been ignored historically not due to the nature of the US revolution but in spite of it.
Further, Franklin was mostly a deist according to his letters, but whether George Washington or the revolutionaries were religious is irrelevant, because they set out for a unique purpose in that the USA they wanted wasn't a reflection of themselves. They knew well the dangers of personality cults.
Instead what they aimed for was to have the USA define itself over its history.
And that definition has had contributions by great atheist writers like Mark Twain, great atheist businessmen like Bill Gates, great atheist commedians like George Carlin.
And of course, other great figures be they Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Christian etc... To proclaim America a Christian nation, beyond all else is to dismiss the contributions of all of those who weren't Christian.
Just as it would exclude Christians to proclaim America an atheist state.
As to the national day of prayer - prayer doesn't get anything done. It is how to do nothing while thinking you are helping. It gulls you into thinking something will be done, when what needs to be done is to hold yourself, and your government accountable.
Obama should not be declaring days of prayer, he should be declaring days of action - days where America acts to change things.
Matt, you need to re-read the First Amendment. The means in which it affirms religious freedom is by prohibiting Congress from creating law related to an establishment of religion. This keeps religion out of the affairs of government, and keeps government out of the affairs of religion. The courts have repeatedly interpreted this prohibition to extend to all branches and levels of government.
I find your last sentence intriguing. First, you assume that the issue is with Christians - It's not. Our concern is with government entanglement with RELIGION - be it Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever.
Second, their is only one group of people who could legitimately consider our complaint to be forcing faith on another person: US Theocratists; people who worship the US government along with the rest of their religious beliefs.
So, Matt, do you worship the government as you do your god? If not, how do you explain the implication that atheists are trying to force our beliefs on other people be calling on government to follow its own rules?
And if you do worship the US government, how do you reconcile your belief with the establishment clause of the first amendment?
The fact is simple: If Obama declared a national day of Bloodletting (consistent with traditional practices of various religions), you'd be throwing a fit that your government called for such a religious observance, despite claims that you won't be forced to spill your own blood. Ever.
Bruce who made you an authority on what prayer (in your opinion) does not accomplish? Stick to your text books. It'll teach you to be human.
allow me to quote Mr Abraham for thew rest of you .....
"It is the duty of nations as well as of men to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, and to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon, and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in Holy Scripture, and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord. And, insomuch (sic) as we know that by His divine law nations, like individuals, are subjected to punishments and chastisement in this world, may we not justly fear that the awful calamity of civil war which now desolates the land may be but a punishment inflicted upon us for our presumptuous sins, to the needful end of our national reformation as a whole people? We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth and power as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which has preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us. It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the offended power, to confess our national sins and to pray for clemency and forgiveness." [March 30, 1863].
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible"
Matt, I love it when people make claims that are so easy to prove false. The above quote, which you attribute to George Washington on September 17th, 1796 (supposedly in Washington's Farewell Address) is spurious; a complete fabrication that is repeated nowhere except on religious websites. ReligiousTolerance.org has an analysis of this. You'll have to email me for the link though. They don't allow them in comments.
As to Washington's prayer at Valley Forge, that's a fraud too. According to Snopes.com, a website that checks the veracity of rumors, urban legends, etc., nowhere in George Washington's extant writings is Jesus Christ referred to by name.
Note to DuckieWuckie: Matt didn't hit it out of the park with this one. It was just another foul ball.
Matt, the September 17th, 1796 quote you list is an egregious forgery that can generally be found only on Christian websites. We're not allowed to put links in comments but you can find verification of this at ReligiousTolerance.org.
As to Washington's prayer at Valley Forge, that's a forgery too. According to Snopes.com a website that debunks rumors, myths and urban legends, there is no reference to Jesus Christ in any of George Washington's extant writings.
Note to DuckieWuckie: Sorry, but there was no hit out of the park here; just another foul ball.
"Lest we forget, this country was built on the Christian faith."
No, it was not. This country was built on the idea that the state keep out of people's religions.
"'In God We Trust' has been this country's motto since 1956."
Yes, around the time of McCarthyism.
"Thomas Jefferson professed his belief in God a year before the signing of the Declaration Of Independence."
Thomas Jefferson was a deist; deism rejects a personal god, rejects salvation, rejects prayer, etc. Deism is not Christian; it is even anti-Christian.
"If you are expressing your anger and frustration of Christians who supposedly are trying to force their faith"
No, we are expressing our anger and frustration because Christians are violating the Constitution.
Gman
Prayer's effectiveness has been repeatedly tested and found wanting.
Frankly, you should go to youtube and look up the beat poem entitled "Storm", because that is what you guys end up sounding like when you talk out your asses about how the effectiveness of prayer is a matter of opinion.
Effectiveness is a matter of fact, and in fact prayer doesn't even work terribly well as a placebo - people who knew they were being prayed for were found to be slightly less likely to recover from heart disease in one major study.
Further, even according to your own holy books, prayer is not a substitute for action - God is supposed to help those who help themselves - not those who whinge at him.
Bruce that just confirms your ignorance about prayer. All you have to do is look at all the good that was birthed in prayer to GOD. But not to worry we'll keep on praying for you as well. "The prayers of the righteous avails much" GOD loves you whether you like it or not.
Hi Trina-- Love your column and your ability to express yourself. I used to not believe == let's just say I was a skeptic. After I used reason to see the reality of the Gospel and then faith came I was truly changed. But what I found out a few weeks after being born again really blew my mind.
But that's another story and I will save it for time when we can talk privately.
BTW-- are you a fan of FIDO's or any place on the West End? Not trying to convert you-- just know that it takes great faith to not believe in God-- so you have the makings of some of the notables such as Lee Strobel, C.S. Lewis, and many others.
Write ON!
Oh, one more thing about your article. The Constitution protects the Church ( religion) from intrusion and interference from the government, not the other way around. The "separation of church and state" -- not being found in the Constitution-- was meant to allow the full freedom of religious liberty in America.
Atheism is a religion too-- by definition.
Gman
Eyes shut in prayer don't see much, hands clasped together in prayer don't do much, and knees bent in prayer don't go very far.
Actions are what matter. Words spoken to an imaginary narcisist just waste time.
Prayer only works to make you feel better about doing nothing except massaging your own ego.
It is a form of masturbation - except masturbation is at least more honest.
"Atheism is a religion too-- by definition."
We don't want an atheist government, we want a secular government, as the Constitution requires.
"Oh, one more thing about your article. The Constitution protects the Church ( religion) from intrusion and interference from the government, not the other way around."
One requires the other; if Christians "intrude and interfere" in government, then non-Christians do not enjoy protection from religious interference by the government.
"All you have to do is look at all the good that was birthed in prayer to GOD."
People have prayed to bring about all sorts of things: wealth, power, death, genocide, intolerance, ignorance, etc. A lot of evil has come out of prayer, tool.
Dave Macy
Theism, is not a religion. For theism to become a religion, it requires further elaboration to be a religion than "I believe in at least one god." A Christian is a theist, so is a Hindu but they don't belong to the same religion.
Atheism, is a lack of belief in gods. It isn't even a belief that there are is no God, or no gods - it is the simple lack of a belief. It is no more a religion than theism is.
While there are atheist religions (Some forms of Budhism for example, and as much as we might dislike admitting it, Scientology doesn't involve gods) atheism itself is not a religion anymore than theism is a religion.
That said you get a lot more basic atheists, than you get basic theists, though the "spiritual but not religious" do exist.
Mike,Some might be praying for wealth ???, peace, tolerance, love, life security of a loved one, a warm bed good things ...... i'm sure you as an atheist also desire a better world but i'm sure no one will be praying for genocide,death hatred unless they praying to satan.I'm sure you heard about him. Some will be praying for swine flu others against depends which team you batting for. Good and evil is a reality ... As for you where do you stand ??
Bruce every time you "open your mouth" you compound you ignorance about prayer. Maybe you should talk about masturbation you seem to be an authority on that.
Dave Macy great news on your new birth and welcome, welcome to the family of GOD.
Forgive me ......
Why did Anne Rice go from atheist to Beleiver?
Why did 7 of the eleven die passing the word when all they had to do was deny Christ? Why? Because its true. Too many confuse religious activity with a personal relationship with Christ. I have no problem with atheists as long as they don't put secularim in our institutions then demand I honer humanists secular idols and beliefs. When you shove Gay marraige down our throats and then teach our children secularism, himanism in the "state" schools , well then you are promoting your religion.
Why did Anne Rice go from atheist to Believer?
Why did 7 of the eleven die passing the word when all they had to do was deny Christ? Why? Because it is true. Too many confuse religious activity with a personal relationship with Christ. I have no problem with atheists as long as they don't put secularim in our institutions then demand I honor humanists secular idols and beliefs. When you shove Gay marraige down our throats and then teach our children secularism, himanism in the "state" schools , well then you are promoting your religion.
Ken Rostron
Before I start debunking your claim, I would like to know the following:
Which disciples are on your list?
As to Anne Rice
Cat Stevens turned to Islam - are you now going to start shouting "Allah Ackbar!" at the top of your lungs?
What are you brain dead?
And lets not even get into how many great actors, authors, poets, artists, scientists and musicians turned from religion to atheism.
We don't bring them up as an argument for atheism because frankly it is a dishonest form of argument, an argument from fame rather than an argument from any sort of truth.
Bruce, you forgot all the ones that turned to Scientology. Get your audit now! :D
But yeah, Ken, the point is just because Tom Cruise or Anne Rice jumps off a cliff, doesn't mean I have to.
Gman, there have been cases where something Christians have prayed for have turned out the way they wanted, but there are also cases where they haven't. It may surprise you, but they would have turned out that way even if no Christians prayed for them, even if it would have seemed impossible to you. There has never been a case that gives hard evidence that a supreme being, in direct response to a prayer, has made something scientifically impossible happen. You want to get results? Work to make it happen yourself, don't wait for your sky daddy to do it for you. Two hands working is better than 1,000 hands praying.
You know, prayer never hurt anyone. Try it. It is better to believe and be wrong than not believe and be wrong. There are many accounts by people who attribute their cures to prayer, which have been verified by doctors, but unless you have an open mind, you will never believe it. So, let's live and let live, OK? A day of prayer will not kill you. You do your thing and let us do ours, thank you very much. Peace!!!
Prayer never hurt anyone, Vin? What about that Tunisian pilot who prayed when his plane was in trouble instead of taking emergency measures? An Italian court found that, if he'd followed procedures, he'd probably have been able to make an emergency landing instead of crashing and killing 16 people. This moron has been sentenced to 10 years in prison. Certainly his prayer never hurt anyone, eh?
Vin
When I was a child, I tried prayer - talking to God - and you know, I discovered a funny thing: God never actually disagreed with me.
If I was beating myself up over something - so was God.
If I thought I was right about something - so did God.
Eventually I figured it out - I wasn't speaking to God.
I was speaking to myself.
And all of that stuff I thought I was so brilliant and moral and right about?
It wasn't because God said so, it was because I said so. And you know what?
I am not all that brilliant, moral and constantly right.
Prayer, if you take it seriously, does a lot of damage to say it doesn't hurt.
What is it with you atheists bigots. I'm not a deeply religious person, but how does someone praying hurt you. Sounds like you atheists are facists hypocrites, who have no tolerance for views that don't coincide to your believes.
DuckieWuckie
Sounds like you have a name specifically dedicated to insulting someone else, and that is about it.
Nobody is talking about banning prayer, we are discussing its benefits - or lack thereof and whether it is right and fitting for the USA to declare a national day of it given the first amendment and the events of the past eight years.
If you can't handle that, that is your problem - not ours.
Ya know what really gets me about the National Day of Prayer? There is nothing in the world stopping you from praying whenever and wherever you want to, to whatever god you want to.
So what really is the purpose of the day? Why do they require a "Task Force"? Why is this "Task Force" tasked with "providing promotional materials and sponsoring several events in keeping with the Judeo-Christian tradition". Why are volunteers required to "commit that NDP activities I serve with will be conducted solely by Christians".
This clearly goes against the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment. This isn't about people of all religions getting an opportunity to worship and pray according to their beliefs, it's about pushing Christianity on others; and the government, including the President should not be involved in that in any official capacity.
The question isn't 'to pray or not to pray'. I have a feeling most adults have already decided that.
The question is, what exactly is a 'national day of prayer'? Can an entire nation pray - maybe in theory (as a non-praying atheist I'm not even going to try to wrap my brain around that one!) but THIS nation can't, as it would require the nation to put praying religions over non-praying ones, which violates the Constitution. Now, this wouldn't be the first or even the most serious recent violation, but there's no excuse for this one.
Whenever America has found itself in a tight spot over the course of its history, its leaders have turned to prayer and called on the citizens to pray.
“America’s God and Country” by William J. Federer is full of quotes from such times. From founders such as George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson to wartime leaders such as Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson and Franklin D. Roosevelt, Americans have turned to God when they find themselves in trouble and with no easy way out.
“Bless us with Thy wisdom in our counsels, success in battle, and let all our victories be tempered with humanity,” Washington is quoted as praying in June 1779 near his headquarters on Hudson River.
“I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in the Assembly every morning,” Franklin said in 1787 before the Constitutional Convention.
“Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners,” Thomas Jefferson wrote on March 4, 1805, in A National Prayer for Peace.
“I pray God that I may be given the wisdom and prudence to do my duties in the true spirit of this great people,” Wilson said in 1917 during his second inaugural address.
Roosevelt led the nation in a lengthy prayer on June 6, 1944, as Allied forces were landing in Normandy.
In 1863, at the height of the Civil War, Lincoln urged the nation “to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.”
It is behind that tradition that today’s National Day of Prayer comes. In 1952, President Harry S. Truman declared an annual day of prayer and, in 1988, President Ronald Reagan permanently set the first Thursday of each May for prayer.
The world of 2009 is beset by turmoil. The United States is involved in a war on two fronts. The world’s economy is struggling to recover from a recession. Terrorism and piracy threaten global security.
If ever there was a time to pray, this would be it.
Praying for you,
again nothing is stopping people from praying any day, any time. I'm sure millions of Christians, including you, are already praying for those problems you point out (for all the good it's doing anybody). What value is added by specifying a day devoted to doing the same thing you do every day, especially when doing it with the support of the Government goes against the Constitution they're supposed to uphold.
Personally, I'd rather people organized ways of actually helping fix the problems around them rather than just pray to their chosen imaginary friend to magically fix their problems for them. It would be more effective.
"The world of 2009 is beset by turmoil."
By historical standards, Americans have little to complain about.
"The United States is involved in a war on two fronts."
Yeah, two stupid and costly wars that a religious zealot of a president got us into.
"The world’s economy is struggling to recover from a recession."
By historical standards, this recession is pretty benign.
"Terrorism and piracy threaten global security."
Shocking as any instance of it is, objectively, terrorism is a negligible cause of preventable deaths for Americans, even counting 9/11. Piracy has been historically much worse.
"If ever there was a time to pray, this would be it."
You're the typical religious zealot and cult follower: you're trying to create fear and uncertainty, and then you're trying to use that to convert people to your religion.
Be grateful for what you have, live your life, and stop trying to spread fear or tell other people how to live.
If God is all knowing, powerful, & in control,
he, she, it or they should be fully aware of what is going on & take the neccesary steps to remedy the situation. If not, the God(s) is a pathetic excuse for a supreme being. Prayer is nothing more than a form of begging. Besides, if this is all predetermined by the God(s), what good is prayer anyway? Another example, if your mother is dying of cancer & you pray for her to recover, doesn't the all powerful God know that also? Why can't the God just
I hear all this talk about doubting the sustinance of true prayer to God. Let's clarify the God we mention. Yahweh, the God of the bible is the one true God. Has anyone here seen a person healed because of prayer? I have. No, not the laughable TV evangelists that claim it. I mean, a cripples legs popping and clicking. and them standing right up.
Im talking about a man who's eyes were burned by acid in an explosion, leaving him blind. and after being touched by a praying man, the color that was once burned out of his eyes, returning right there in plain sight. Along with his sight....???
I'm sure many of you will start to go off on me for saying that. That's fine with me. I'm not ignorant, I'm not inferior. I'm not intimidated by what you don't believe in. Nor am I angry that you don't believe, you have that right. I see the points you make about ignorant people praying for things that don't happen or change..
Way to many "christians" have claimed to believe in God, and say they pray to Him. A lot of these people ARE ignorant. they don't even understand the God they pray to. I'm sorry for those people. If there were more people who truly understood God, and had a real relationship with Him, most of what you all are saying wouldnt be possible. Because if you saw the things I've seen, you couldn't doubt Him.
The bible doesn't teach people to be ignorant, and yell and scream at everyone who doesn't believe and call them the devil. People choose to do that. Many who call themselves christians, go to church, never learn anything, but feel like they belong to "the Club" and go out and start yelling at everyone who doesn't believe what they believe. That is ignorant. I am not one of those. I pray to a god that calls me to be wise, to pay attention to the world around me, see the truth in it, but in all t
...But in all things be in service to Him. I personally have seen God do things that no science can explain. You call me ignorant. But have you ever laid hands on someone and they get healed? The bible explains this as allowing the work of Jesus to be done through us, but it is His power that does it.
We can deny with words whatever we want. we can even come up with very plausible or scientific explanations to our conclusions. Just be aware, as much as I recognise all of your arguments, as I once was an unbeliever. I am now convinced, God is real, he cannot be removed through our denial of Him, and His word does say that every knee shall bow and every toungue will confess that He is Lord. That tells me that one day he will prove to ALL people His Reality. I personally bank on it. because of
...the things I've seen.
Hey moron who wrote this article their is no such thing "seperation of church and state". It's not in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Get a clue.
So tell me was your great great grandfather a blade of grass or a tree frog? Here another question for you why aren't you still evolving? I will answer this question for you because your going to die and face Jesus Christ your creator. You will wish you would have known the truth. Some people are just blind and I am sorry their sister but your just like Pilate who had Jesus put to death, only becaue God gave him authority to carry out this act. What I am saying is YOUR BLIND TO THE TRUTH.........
The symptoms of a civilization in decline are all about us, as they were for the previous 20 civilizations, whom failed to heed the admonitions of God's Word. (The fool hath said in his heart, no God.)
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