Protesters argue over SB 1070, the Arizona immigration law. AP Photo
The Arizona state legislature recently passed an immigration law which is gaining national attention for some harsh provisions. The bill attempts to crack down on illegal immigration through a number of measures. The most controversial of these measures requires law enforcement officials to ask for identification from anyone they have "reasonable suspicion" is an illegal immigrant. The bill now only lacks the Governor's signature before it becomes law. A veto would be required to stop the law from going into effect.
As expected, liberals cried foul after the Arizona legislature passed the law. They argued that the law will lead to racial profiling and violation of civil liberties. "Reasonable suspicion" is certainly a vague standard. Under the law, the police would be allowed to arrest anyone for not producing proper identification papers if they were asked.
What was not expected is a conservative dissent to the bill's passage as well. Today on Fox News, noted conservatives Fred Barnes from Weekly Standard and Charles Krauthammer from the Washington Post both disapproved of the bill. Barnes said the bill went "way too far," calling it "draconian." Krauthammer agreed with Barnes' assertion and with liberals who argue the bill could create many civil rights abuses.
The problems associated with illegal immigration are very real in the state of Arizona. Having said that, the state's population has to question whether they have adopted too harsh of measures when even conservatives oppose the new bill.
Comments
The solution is simple: Put the employers of illegal immigrants in jail. They'll be in good company. 1 out of every 3 prisoners in this country is an illegal immigrant.
Gigi,
How true! Make it illegal(with real enforcement) to hire them and don't give them welfare and they will leave.
Mitch,
Good point. No more freebies from the gullible nitwits who have trusted their tax money to idiots in Washington. The idiots are going home!
"1 out of every 3 prisoners in this country is an illegal immigrant."
What utter and complete bovine excrement.
Department of Justice statistics have consistently shown that illegals are LESS likely to commit other crimes and go to prison/jail - they're careful because they have too much to lose.
"Reporting from Mexico City
In a bold predawn attack, gunmen stormed a hotel Wednesday in the heart of the northern city of Monterrey and kidnapped at least three people, officials said.
Mexican media said up to 50 hooded gunmen arrived in a convoy and burst into the downtown Holiday Inn, seizing guests and employees.
Law enforcement officials, offering only scant details by late afternoon, said it was not immediately clear whether a fourth person was seized or how many gunmen took part in the 3 a.m. attack. Authorities offered no motive for the kidnappings, but the attack bore the hallmarks of Mexico's drug gang violence.
Monterrey's mayor, Fernando Larrazabal, said police had trouble reaching the scene because the attackers commandeered cars and used them to block surrounding streets. Larrazabal told a radio interviewer that the kidnappers had disappeared in less than 20 minutes."
When this moves north, this law will be a welcomed law.
Snarky,
You know there are statistics on prison populations available to the curious.
Not only are the prisons full of non citizens (1/3), 36-42 % of them are on welfare. (They're really trying to keep a low profile.)
We live nowhere near the border. Our good friend on the police force told us if it weren't for the crimes from residence of labor camps (where the illegals lived during the growing season) most of the cops would be let go because they wouldn't have enough to do. That was 25 years ago.
We invited an illegal neighbor for Christmas & Thanksgiving dinner for a couple of years. He got picked up more than once for drunk driving. Apparently, they don't think they have that much to lose!
What planet do you live on?
Hey, DRASTIC crime, kidnapping and mayhem calls for drastic response.
THIS issue of protecting the borders and the American people from assault is THE NUMBER ONE job of the government.
Ever hear these words?
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Well, the states and the people are taking the power they are guaranteed in the Constitution since the Federal government has decided to not take up the work.
Anyone who speaks English proficiently is not going to have a problem with this law. How will Hispanic Americans benefit? Phoenix is the kidnapping capitol of the U.S. courtesy of the drug and human smugglers. Mexican workers are taking jobs and depressing the wages of Hispanic American workers. And contrary to what the news media would have you believe, 50% of Hispanic Americans in Arizona support a crackdown on illegal immigration.
Gigi, unless you can show a SOURCE for those "statistics," I'm flat calling you a liar.
And fair warning - I've been all through the Department of Justice statistics on prison and jail populations (they're online) and they definitely do NOT support your claims.
As for the drunk - if I had to sit a table with you, I'd probably feel the urge to over-indulge as well.
Gigi,
You have to understand that "high level" military analyst training does not include how to access DOJ nor FBI crime statistic databases. Let alone statistical analysis of percentages of Criminal Illegal aliens to both their illegal population and the population of the states in which the majority resides.
Perhaps it is because statistics was an 'elective' along with "drink-them-under-the-Table" at the military analyst college. Snot and Jake/Jack/Jane/Jacob/Janus... prolly chose the second as an elective over the statistics class....Think?
As to "Conservatives" opposing this Bill.....I think an investigation into their 'conservativeness' would be in order before listening to them....There are a lot of RINO conservatives interests in Arizona...Did I mention McCain?
So jaime... jumping on the Liar Bus with your alter ego?
SHOW the stats with the SOURCE - or you're nothing but a lying sack yourself.
Snarky,
I had 'heard' the statistic. When I googled it, I found the quote had come from CNN correspondent, Christine Romans, using the Federal Bureau of prisons as her source. It was a statistic on 'noncitizens', which I clarified in my second post.
Knowing your zero tolerance for misinformation from the right, and eagerness to assign evil motives, I wouldn't dare just make something up. Your infinate tolerance for deceipt from the left including from the president, just adds another layer of complexity and challenge to our little political disputes.
LMAO - So, you don't have cable and you don't trust the MSM - but you'll attempt to cite a CNN reporter, second-hand, as a source?
That's how you make a fool of yourself.
According to the DOJ, about 27 percent of FEDERAL prisoners are non-citizens at any given moment - the majority of those being people pending deportation; a transient prison population.
BUT....
At year-end 2008 (most complete stats), the total US prisoner population was 1,610,446 - of which only 201,289 were in FEDERAL prisons - only 12 percent of the total prison population.
Further, if you make the reasonable assumption that the majority of illegals are Hispanic, you find that the TOTAL Hispanic prisoner population - illegal AND legal residents AND citizens - is only 313,100 - 19.4 percent of the total prisoner population.
With a TOTAL Hispanic population, legal AND illegal, below 20 percent, the one-third claim is patently absurd.
We should not be attacking the elected representatives of Arizona, but the elected representatives in Wash D.C.
Plea after plea by the AZ governor has fallen on deaf ears in D.C. leaving Arizona little choice but to take the measures they deem necessary to alleviate the problem. Obama's regime, meanwhile, is planning amnesty for these law breakers when instead, he (and every president before him) should be condemning the governments of Mexico and other S.A. countries who do nothing for their own nations.
Gigi...In an earier phase I studied statistics under John Tukey, I quote him :
A D Gordon offered the following summary of Tukey's principles for statistical practice:
".. the usefulness and limitation of mathematical statistics; the importance of having methods of statistical analysis that are robust to violations of the assumptions underlying their use; the need to amass experience of the behaviour of specific methods of analysis in order to provide guidance on their use; the importance of allowing the possibility of data's influencing the choice of method by which they are analysed; the need for statisticians to reject the role of 'guardian of proven truth', and to resist attempts to provide once-for-all solutions and tidy over-unifications of the subject; the iterative nature of data analysis; implications of the increasing power, availability and cheapness of computing facilities; the training of statisticians."
Cont..above
Gigi..Cont.. Another quote : "...Far better an approximate answer to the right question, than the exact answer to the wrong question, which can always be made precise.."
I remember him saying you could prove two opposite conclusions with the same data depending on how it was presented.
Using Snot's eg below. 300 million pop in US, and ~12million illegals(official propoganda). 1,610,000 Fed Prisoners, ~ 314,000 Hispanic Prisoner pop.
Well this works out to be about .0045% of the other fed prisoners to non illegals ie about 288 million. Whereas according to the stats given by Snot, the percentage of FED prisoners per 12mil pop of illegals is.02612%. In other words the Illegal Hispanics represented here in the US are 5.804 times more likely to commit Federal Crimes !!
I went thru a similar discussion with Snot's partner in Political Military propoganda...He who is The "J-Handle" sock puppet.
You are on the right path.. :-) .
ROTFLMAO - You might fool the ignornant with the apples and hammer comparison, jaime... but you KNOW its complete and utter crap.
The statement was: "1 out of every 3 prisoners in this country is an illegal immigrant."
It's not even true in the federal system; 27 percent is less than 33 percent - and the FEDS account for all illegals pending deportation, whether held in a federal prison, a private contract prison or a local jail under fed contract.
With less than 20 percent of prisoners TOTAL - in all systems - being Hispanic, even if every one of them was illegal you would be far short of that 33 percent.
And a good ol' Texan like you knows that a significant number of Hispanics behind bars are citizens with deep roots, many going back before the Alamo - so the illegal percentage is significantly less than that 20 percent.
1 in 3 is a lie. Period. Any attempt to claim it thru statistical manipulation is LYING.
Ergo: You, jaime, are a LIAR. Q.E.D.
Snarky,
Why is it not sufficient to explain to you that I 'heard' the statistic? I thought it was a reliable source and repeated it.
When challenged, I googled it and learned the statistic was for 'non citizens' which I stated.
When challenged again I gave you the source.
Sorry if that's not good enough to keep you from having one of your narcissistic siezures.
Good grief!
Because, Gigi, it's not that you know so little - it's that so little of what you 'know' is correct.
That "1 in 3" lie has been bouncing around for years - and discredited for years. But you jerk your knee and believe it because it sounds like what you WANT to believe.
I didn't attack YOU - I attacked the statistic, and you immediately turned it into a personal attack on ME. So don't whine when I fire back.
Now... care to try and support that welfare stat you woofed? Or would you rather just admit that's just something you (mis)heard as well?
Gigi,
'Snot'is trying to baffle you with bullsh!t...confuse you into thinking HIS knowledge of the statistical nature of illegal immigrants and their predilection for crime is greater than yours. The ultimate goal is to somehow show that ALL illegal crimes is one of two things: (1) a cultural misunderstanding and (2) a racist enslavement of "folks just trying to mow your lawns to send $$ back to grandma in the Home Country".
By Snots own data: A total Non illegal immigrant popluation of 288 million and 1,296,000 Fed prisoners = 0.0045% of the POPulation. The 12 miliion Illegal Immigrants with 314,000 in the Fed System means that the percentage of illegal immigrants who commit Federal crimes in relation to their Total POP is 0.02612. And this is almost SIX TIMES the incarceration rate for the Illegal Immigrant population than for the population at large(not inclusive of the Illegal entry folks).
An illegal is 6 times more likely to commit a Fed crime! Starting
Illegally!
Snarky,
You misunderstand me as usual. I'm no whining that you're firing back and I couldn't care less about your personal attacks.
I was simply making an observation.
Jaime,
Snarky is the 'logic' police. If it's logical, he's against it and will run interference and dazzle with statist stats until you're buried alive and sufficiently distracted from the point of the subject that his victory can be declared.
Nobody can beat him at his game, it doesn't matter to him that nobody wanted to play in the first place. If I make a mistake, I don't take it personally if someone corrects me. Give me the facts. I want to know the truth. It matters to me.
Again you lie by misrepresenting statistics, jaime.
The Fed number INCLUDES those whose only crime is being here illegally and who are incarcerated pending deportation or an immigration hearing.
Which isn't the question anyway - the statement was that "1 in 3 prisoners" were illegal immigrants - a statement that clearly is false and grossly in excess of reality.
When you LIE like this, it's obvious you already know you're full of bovine excrement and just trying to baffle those too dumb to do the math.
No Snot.....You are the Liar. I never claimed anything about 1 in 3. 1 over 3, 1 under 3 etc..
What I did was work with your numbers. Period.
What I also did was show what a TRUE master of Statistics thought about, and I quote "..rejecting the role of guardian of 'proven truth'.." which you are clearly trying to do with your vapid verbiage and misuse of numbers.
Another Social "fact" you fail to mention is that the percentages of Illegals is MUCH MUCH higher in some states than others....thus the "statistical impact of the Percentages of illegals committing crimes there is also MUCH higher than a mere national average.
I would ask readers to Re-read my quotes from John Tukey in posts directly below. As Snark (Snot) is a perfect example of the misuse of statistical analysis.
Snot embodies 'a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing'...in this case a 'wilful missuse' of stats can be DEADLY...Just ask Rob Krentz's family.
Nice try, jaime - but you jumped in to attack me immediately after I challenged Gigi's bogus 1 in 3 prisoners claim - then launched on a completely different claim in an attempt to befuddle anyone looking in.
To use a Hermanism, that's a Lie of Commission - deliberate deception to distract from the specific point in question.
But IF YOU INSIST - by your math, then we should be shipping every African-American male out of the country, regardless of citizenship - because their incarceration rates are even higher than that of your 12 million illegals.
As for Rob Krentz - shove that where the sun don't shine, scumbag.
First, the question was PRISONERS, not drug smugglers.
Second, implying that I could even conceivably justify the murder of an innocent citizen under any conditions shows you have ZERO integrity or respect yourself - you'll slander and libel simply for political argument.
You are pondscum.
Why Snot...How Droll. My-My you are indeed the very essence of Snotness tonite.
And using A Hermanism no less. And Scumbag, and Pondscum...you make a person breathless...and just feel ..well special. Then there's the ongoing references to "4th points of contacts where suns don't shine". What to think...so I lay me down...perchance to sleep....perchance to dream...to open windows of clarity...then it dawned on me and I said to myself :
"Self...What if Snot and his 'Buddy' have vested interests in illegal aliens...what if there's $$ involved...since morals are obviously not an issue for them..?...". So Big Fella come clean...Are y'all hiring "undocumented workers"? Is that the reason for your clinging to random numbers and bogus analysis....S'alright as Smiley says 'you can come in outta the Cold'.
I was very clear from wence my reasoning came from...ie YOUR #'s. Lame try with AfrAm Males...They're American...I know that's aConcept you have trouble with. Trying the RACE-CARD !
No dipwad - as I made clear despite your attempts to obfuscate, those are Department of Justice numbers.
Specifically, the Bureau of Justice Statistics in the Office of Justice Programs.
You know, every president since Reagan has attempted to address the illegal immigration issue and proposed some form of guest worker program that would reduce the incentive to come here illegally.
And every one has been shot down - by unions when a Republican proposed it and by Nativists when a Democrat tries it.
But perhaps the most fascinating is the continuing opposition by pseudo-conservatives who claim to favor free markets and minimal government regulation - then gnash their teeth and whine about the ultimate example of the free market - illegals coming for jobs.
Create a workable guest worker program and the only illegals you have to worry about are the real criminals - and you can devote the resources necessary to them instead of chasing fruit pickers and meat cutters.
Snarky,
Such arrogance applied to such nonsense. That's what we love about our Snarky.
There's nothing 'pseudo-conservative' about objections to illegal immigrants coming for jobs. The purpose of our government is to protect the rights of it's citzens.
For the government to regulate business to the point of:
the minimum wage it can pay/ the requirement to purchase workman's comp insuance/ etc.
and then have the government (in collusion with business) look the other way while business hires non citizens in order to avoid these regulations, which creates a disadvantage for citizens to compete for the jobs, is a slap in the face to the 'rights of citizens' it was designed to protect.
gigi, you lying twit - attempting to twist my advocating a GUEST WORKER program into a claim I support having ILLEGAL immigrants.
Like Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and now Obama, I'm in favor of FIXING the problem of illegal immigration by offering a LEGAL ALTERNATIVE.
That's both cheaper and much smarter than attempts to seal the border, which history has shown are doomed to failure anyway.
Snarky,
My use of the word 'pseudo-conservative' should have given you a clue that I was responding to your use of the word in an accusation. Can't expect your attention span to include remembering your own accusations, I guess. Sorry.
You arrogant little libsters think just because you call someone a 'lying twit' , it will change the reality of the facts.
If by 'libster' you mean libertarian, I'll proudly take the name.
But of course, you don't, because everything to you is tight little labels. It's why 'pseudo-con' gets under your skin - you KNOW in your heart that your anti-illegals, Nativist, pro-expanded-government-regulation stance is directly contrary to your other claims of supporting 'free markets.'
You and your ilk would fit in well with the old "Know Nothings" - you'd rather rant than consider actions that might actually work to reduce the problem.
Snarky,
That's what I love about you. When you screw-up you own-up.
When you're wrong, you arrogantly project your own hatred and dishonesty onto your opponents and call it a victory. You see, you're not the only narcissist that I know. I see a cute little pattern with you and it's right on target. Adorable trait, really....
Into the sauce a little early again, Gigi? time to slip into your jaime persona?
Tell ya what - why don't you give us YOUR great plan for dealing with illegal immigration, including how many troops you need on the border, how much it will cost, and where you are going to get the revenue to pay for it?
Gigi...You GO girl. Snotty calls me a dipwad and you a twit ( shouldn't that word be banned on this site as "insensitive" to the host??).
So Soldier Boy....what LEGAL SOLUTION do you propose that would FIX the illegal problem.
Here we go with the NON-duality claim again....when it gets too hard for them they claim there is only one cray conservative OZ-like pulling the levers behind the curtain.
As to the "solution"....you first..you show me yours and I'll show you "mine"..... ;-) .
Already answered, repeatedly - as you well know, dipwad.
A practical guest worker program; there's some room on the details, but we could start with the best elements of Reagan, Bush II and Clinton proposals.
For those already here, a slow and rigorous program whereby they can become legal guest workers by 1) voluntarily revealing themselves, 2) demonstrating that they have not engaged in criminal activity, 3) paying a fine (over time) and 4) demonstrating through work and contributing to society for a specified number of years that they have citizen potential. AFTER all that, they can start the process of applying for naturalization - or transition into the regular guest worker program.
With a well-regulated guest worker program, you can then realistically enforce the sanctions against employers who hire illegals.
Reduce the incentive to cross the border illegally and you can focus on stopping drug dealers, terrorists and other real Bad Guys.
Now... you going to admit the Gigi claim of 1 in 3 prisoners being illegal is bogus? You know, the claim YOU attacked me over when I challenged it?
You know... THIS sequence?
Gigi, April 22, 9:24 AM
Not only are the prisons full of non citizens (1/3), 36-42 % of them are on welfare.
Snark, April 22, 2:27 PM
Gigi, unless you can show a SOURCE for those "statistics," I'm flat calling you a liar.
And fair warning - I've been all through the Department of Justice statistics on prison and jail populations (they're online) and they definitely do NOT support your claims.
jaime, April 22, 4:48 PM
Gigi,
You have to understand that "high level" military analyst training does not include how to access DOJ nor FBI crime statistic databases.
****
I even pointed you toward the DOJ database - so why don't you just admit you were shoveling BS?
Well Snot,
At least you are being consistent with your perjoratives..and I am still Dipwad instead of morphing to tWit.
No I don't Know your position....Unless you are letting your guard down & are admitting that You and "Jake" are the same Person...and that by the way Gigi is absolutely correct about you "projecting"; including this duality thingy onto us. HMMM?
I ONLY ever had this (rather long) conversation with the 'Jake" Character...who you claimed was your 'buddy in crime' ie, that you "served" together.
Well on this site youse'all certainly "SERVED" insults I'll give you that.LOL.
You are basically for a 4- Step Amnesty Program. Rewarding the Law-breakers. I don't agree with Reagan on this AT ALL.
Employers who NOW hire illegals should be charged AND fined. If they agree to Cease immediately and hire Americans in their place the fines would be recondidered...but NOT the charges which could be negotiated with further cooperation.
Cont.. above.
Cont...
This would have an effect of SOME returning to Mexico. Those that remained would be detained when encountered and deported. The ALREADY EXISTING LAWS would be enforced. The Border Patrol would be beefed up with BOTH Personel and Material. AND the Military would come to all 4 border states as they did under Pershing with the understanding that Mexico will do nothing to prevent the incursion and is actively hostile to Americas' Sovereignity. There wouild be a FENCE built with American Construction Companies and American workers used.
The money would come from the same source as for the Agencies under your plan to oversee the "Compliance" of your 4-step program of AMNESTY. The Anchor baby system would be stopped IMMEDIATELY. Those with children here now would be allowed to finish the closest matriculation..ie grammer or middle or high school understanding that at graduation they will be returning to Mex. Those already in College would remain to finish their closest degree.
NO. I never made any claim about 1 in 3 etc as I've said now about 4 times. I used YOUR #'s from where-ever to show that different conclusions could be drawn. I showed your lack of POP distribution intra-state as a major drawback.
The numbers YOU gave show that propensity for crime was at least 5 to 6 times more likely given the population distributions highlighted. I am sorry if you are Statistically challanged...truely I am.
But that wasn't Gigi's claim - she simply stated 1 in 3 prisoners are illegal aliens (and that somewhere around 47 percent of illegals are on welfare - another bogus stat).
I've argued for a viable guest worker program here and on other sites - including ones you've been on. If you "forgot" - well, I don't believe you.
The KEY is the guest worker program; "amnesty" is an incorrect term for the other part, since it's not forgiveness - it's earning your way to legitimacy.
It's also the only realistic approach; your method is both ridiculously expensive and unworkable without creating a police state.
As for the rest, you clearly have NO concept of the number of troops necessary and the costs and logistics of maintaining a truly closed border.
Rant and rave - or work to fix the problem - your choice.
(As for Jake - one of his NDU lectures covers this, so if I sound like him, guess I paid attention.)
There's nothing ranting about what I suggested but I agree it would be a rave success if for no other reason than American Citizens would see a clear example of the Gov't actually doing what it's main purpose is....and that is to protect.
They have come ILLEGALLY and there is now NO PRACTICAL SOLUTION except AMNESTY..excuse me "earn their way to legitimacy". Well isn't THAT convenient. They're here and there's no 'rational' solution but to let them stay -lawbreakers or not.
Sorry...They can come in AGAIN and EARN their way through the normal process. But,We might want to let NEW people from Mex. come who HAVEN'T broken our laws prior. We have great capacity in this country...as a Nation and as individual citizens with high motivation and ingenuity. Maybe some of those jobs will be taken by other Americans. Why do you assume that these ILLEGALS even deserve them?
And further more...Just HOW did Pershing do it? We'll learn from history and improvise. Do you hire Illegals BTW??
As a mostly retired independent single contractor - why would I hire illegals? Just another of your attempts to divert from the real issues.
You ready to live in a police state akin to old East Germany? Because that's what it's going to take to round up close to 20 million illegals, throw 'em out and keep 'em out.
And that's not even taking into consideration the economic impact.
I suspect Arizona is about to provide an object lesson on the difficulties inherent in the 'kick 'em all out' approach.
WAIT A MINUTE.....I thought it was 12 million..???
By going after the US employers first many will self eject BACK to their "motherland". If you make it hurt in the pocketbook there will be certain self-correcting actions. But not a total solution. That's why you deport those in detention and those caught. That might be a trickle....but it will ALSO have the effect of some voluntary repatriations.
There are those intractable cases for sure...who just won't leave no matter how much of a crook they have been shown to be. But then we've had this porblem in Wash DC for ages now.lol
Total is almost certainly closer to 20 million than to 12, although there's been a recession-induced decline.
Weren't you one of those upset about the (bogus) claim the healthcare bill would require something like 16,000 new IRS agents? Got any idea how many federal agents you'll need to realistically go after employers??
And you know what happens within hours of starting a nationwide roundup and deportation? They go seriously underground.
Expensive police state or smart adaptation that also adds millions of taxpaying workers and prevents a population decline that would lead to economic decline.
You really want to chose the police state?
You deport those already in custidy. Then you slowly deport as they become known through other actions...traffic stops etc.. not a torrent of "going after", but rather a slow and steady amount that shows that America and especially a majority of its'citizens support enfortcing their immigration laws. Those Laws would still be in effect and could be streamlined at the same time.
The amount of IRS agents was extrapolated from the money EARMARKED for the IRS. Projecting salary and meshing it with goals put forth in the Obama Health Scare Tax and Scam Scheme led to aprox 12,000 to 16,000 new agents needed. I was aware as were MANY other Conservatives, WHERE the projections came from, from the beginning...so no there is no "bogus" claim...just a supposition that IF the IRS was going to enforce and monitor as the Health Tax Bill demands...they WILL need new personel.
But you START with US Businesses. When the sign is clear that hefty FINES WILL be implemented...they will let go those who have come here ILLEGALLY. This will SOON have the effect of voluntary migration back south of the border.
This effect will be tremendous...esp. if you cut off food stamps and housing subsidies at the same time. We can pay them enough to traverse back and say a couple of months starting money...for those voluntarily returning.
We already deport anyone in custody, unless they are facing other charges or an immigration hearing. You do know that mass deportation has been credibly estimated to cost $40-45 billion per year - and the entire Homeland Security budget for FY 2011 is only $53 billion - right?
And illegals already are ineligible for food stamps and welfare; some get it anyway, but those programs have a lot more porblems that need fixing than just that.
The IRS claim is pure BS - NO money was 'earmarked,' there was just an estimate of TOTAL costs (publicity, admin, new forms & software, etc.) and Republicans used the high end of that estimate and applied it to entry level salaries.
However, if you really want to go after businesses, you're going to have to hire thousands more fed agents to regularly visit everything from factories to mom&pop stores.
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