When a person walks into a game store, they often times have two options: buy a new game or buy a used game. With tight economies around the world, the prospect of buying a used game becomes much more attractive. Unfortunately for developers, this means they don’t get a cent of the profits every time one of their games are resold. While video game pirates take most of the headlines, many have been admitting that used games can also be just as damaging.
The first example of this comes from Blitz Games Studio’s Andrew Oliver. After offering statistical data that suggests that some games may exchange hands as many as four times, he adds that “this means that publisher and developer royalties are effectively quartered.” While those estimates may not be completely accurate, it does show that used games do have a noticeable effect. Some people who pirate games had no intention of paying for it in the first place. On the other hand, people who get used games do have the intention of spending money, but developers don’t get any of it. That’s potential profits, which in turn would have gone towards developing future games, that are lost.
Another person who touched on the subject of used games was Ready At Dawn CEO Didier Malenfant. He mentions that “As far as what my personal wishes are, I'd love to see anything that can help distribution move quicker toward a 100 percent online model. It's not piracy but used games that are killing us.” In a interview with GamesIndustry, Epic Game’s President Mike Capps even admits that “We don't make any money when someone rents it, and we don't make any money when someone buys it used.”
Even Nintendo of America’s President Reggie Fils-Aime has brought up the issue of used games saying that: “We don’t believe used games are in the best interest of the consumer. We have products that consumers want to hold onto. They want to play all of the levels of a Zelda game and unlock all of the levels. A game like Personal Trainer Cooking has a long life. We believe used games aren’t in the consumer’s best interest.”
While it almost sounds like a product advertisement, he still brings up a good point: Nintendo has made a lot of games that people would rather hang onto then sell. If more developers put extra effort into games that can be enjoyed long term, then they will see less profits lost from used sales. Smaller developing companies likely have the greatest negative impact because they don’t have large budgets. Lost sales from used games and piracy cuts into that budget even more and a combination of the two is likely why some smaller developers will have trouble succeeding long-term.
A recent study on GameStop, one of the largest used game sellers, had $2.39 billion in used game sales in 2009. In combination with all the other locations used games can be purchased at, a large portion of money is made (and lost for developers) as people continue to look for affordable video games in a difficult economy.
Overall it’s apparent that used games are having much larger impact then many people may have realized. Between piracy and used games, it’s not surprising that developers are putting more focus into digital downloadable games and piracy protection for their systems. The main thing gamers can do for developers they want to support is buy the game new or pay for a digital download of it. Both methods allow them to make a portion of the profit. Even though it’s legal, unlike piracy, getting a used game or renting one only supports the retailer and not the developer.
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Comments
What these stupid greedy CEO's fail to mention is even though they don't get money on used sales, they get sales on their NEW games because people trade in the old ones to buy the latest just released. At $60 a game, most can't afford to buy every game they want to play. First sale doctrine is a right, they already made their profit on the game, they don't deserve a cut every time it changes hands.
I guess used car lots are just as bad as stealing the car since the original manufacture didn't get any of that sell.
Anyone who goes to the library is killing the living of all the authors because they didn't get paid every time someone read their book.
When these thieves move to 100% digital and take away our right to First-sale doctrine:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
That's the day I start pirating ALL my games. These greedy CEO's think that their product is somehow different than anything else that's sold. Once I've paid for it, it's mine to do with as
^ Agreed.
The gaming industry makes more money than film, literature, or music. Gaming makes more money than any form of media entertainment on this planet, yet we are led to believe we are somehow killing the industry off by buying used games. This is preposterous, the proliferation of used game sales came as a direct result to our taking of gaming to the highest monetary pinacles the media entertainment world has ever seen.
Instead of thanking us for creating what is the most profitable form of entertainment in the history of the world, the industry now seeks to clamp down on our rights as consumers.
Only gamers could be treated this way, as gamers defend the gaming industry religiously. If this same "used goods are theft" mentality were used in any other industry, it would fall flat on its face in light of consumer outrage. The fact that gamers even entertain the notion that publishers have the right to devalue their goods to keep us from selling them is sad.
Used cars. You don't hear car manufacturers whine like children over people buying their cars second hand. In fact, I can't think of any other industry, besides games, that are actually this vocal in their whining about lost profits. The sense of entitlement is astounding imho.
Really though, used games from Gamestop only save you $5 on average, so I myself don't see the point of buying a used game unless it is out of print or you actually get a good deal.
The 3 posters above sum it up perfectly. Hell, the big 3 auto makers declared bankruptcy and STILL didn't have the balls to blame the "evil" second hand car market.
Unfortunately, the video game industry WILL be the first to go to a digital distribution only model. I have a strong suspicion that the next generation of consoles will be a DD only (gamers are too fanatical to NOT buy games, even if they disagree with the method). The only problem is, I also believe they will still keep the prices at $60. So now, they don't have to manufacture disks, cases, or manuals, no shipping/handling/distribution costs, and best of all for them, no second hand sales. Their profit margin just went from ridiculous to astronomical. That will be the point where I will begin to support pirating of video games...
I care, and that's why I spend the few extra bucks to buy my games new. But what's wrong with buying used? If other gamers cared about developers like I do then they'd buy games new. But people that play games don't care like I do so dev's need to think of strategies for getting more new sales, like locking in extra content for first-time purchasers only. This is the developers problem not the gamers. But I don't necessarily approve of buying Used games because I really care about gaming that much (do I need to reiterate this again?). If you care then buy games new but if you don't then it's no big deal because this is capitalism/free-market economy in the U.S of A. SO SUCK IT!
they should go digital that would kill gamestop
gamestop also sells the most new games out of all retailers. developers are also making profit from dlc.
Agreed with Load of Bull
I am an avid gamer and will not support an industry that does not let me do what I want with some thing I have purchased. I do not agree with pirating since some people did work hard on the product but I my self will not be buying any games if they go all digital and I will A. Find another form of entertainment or B. Pirate.
lower the price of games then the people who buy used because they can not afford new might actually give these loser developers some cents.
a used sale isn't a lost sale, its a never was cause there wasn't enough money alternative. take away used games will increase piracy.
all developers do is talk about how to get more monies from gamers. they have to face facts, there selling to a consumer with limited funds. charging $60 + dlc + subscriptions means theres less money to go around. face it jack.
go buy blacklight tango down. $15 dlc multiplayer shooter. support a developer thats giving us a high quality game at an affordable price.
leave ea and activision to self pity.
they should go digital that would kill gamestop
I lol'd at the comparison to cars someone made.
1. Used cars buyers probably can't afford new cars with differences of several thousand dollars. Anyone who can afford $55 games can afford a $60 game. With cars, there is enough of a price difference to separate it into two different markets with far less overlap than the new/used game markets.
2. Drawbacks to buying used games usually amount to nothing more than scratches on the case. It's quite a bit different with cars. The older a car is, the more issues are likely to arise. Then there is wear and tear.
3. Used cars are generally older models. If someone wants a 2010 vehicle, there probably aren't a ton of used 2010 models sitting around the lot as an alternative. A used buyer would have to settle for an older model. With games, for less money, you can get the exact same game. Not so with cars. I'm sure developers wouldn't be complaining if someone looking for Uncharted 2 had to settle for a used copy of Uncharted 1.
Too bad.
If I buy a $60 game, play it and beat it, it's my right to sell it if I choose. I paid for it, and I own it. I can sell it. There's no law saying that I can't.
People laugh at the PSP Go, but yet, it's such a great idea to prevent used game sales. Sure, the PSP Go renders any UMD movie/game that people had as completely useless, but it's helping pave the way for digital distribution. To download a full game is cheaper in many ways, and you can't sell a downloaded game.
So instead of bitching about it and charging us $10 to play online, why aren't developers pushing towards digital distribution? Screw working on 3D games and motion control games, if used games are hurting the industry THAT MUCH, then they need to work on a fix. And as far as I can tell, digital distribution is the only way. No matter what you do, people are going to buy used games. They walk into a store, see it's cheaper, and buy it. You can't download used games.
This is why Steam works so well. Some might argue that it's particularly heinous to not own a physical copy of the game, but I say that the sales factor far outweighs that principle.
For example:
Crysis+Crysis Warhead:$14 (Christmas '09)
King's Bounty: The Legend + Armored Princess $11 (1/12/10)
Freedom Force + FF: The Third Reich: $2
Dead Space: $10
Mass Effect 2: $24
Overlord: $3
Deus Ex 1&2: $5
I haven't paid above thirty dollars for a Steam game in probably 2 years, and many of the games I do get are purchased for less than 10. It doesn't matter that I can't resell them because, for one, I pick up games with replay value, and, for two, I'd be lucky to lose only 10 dollars on a sale or trade-in to GS.
Then there's the advantage that, withholding whatever percentage that Valve/Steam charges for games purchased, all of the sale is profit. There's no fabrication, packaging, and shipping costs, and there's also no sitting on the extra 4000 boxed copies that no on
People are allowed to resell their own property. Gamestop is just taking advantage of that. If the game companies can't live with it, then they need to provide an alternative. Personally, I'd rather resell my game to a company that kicks back to the developers but that's not an option.
And what exactly do the game companies expect me to do? Hold on to a mediocre game I'll never play again out of nostagia?
why is someone trading in such great games up to 4 times should be the question developers should be askin, they need 2 make & support games more if they want ppl 2 hang onto em longer, dlc(not $15+) & beta r a few of the better ideas. or if ur gonna go digital giv both options charge less 4 digital & send less physical copies to retail unless ordered, so theres less chance of there being used copies if they wanna complain so much, lik Fallout 3 game of the year edition its so hard 2 find a shelf copy unless u order it around here, but u can still get the dlc at a price if u want it right away.
Your mom: Your points may be slightly valid, but they're still also besides my point. I was talking about the consumer's point of view, but the industry's and publishers'. Both industries lose money on used sales, yet only one actually complains about it. And you rarely, if ever, hear complaints from book writers about libraries, do you? :) Or used book sales for that matter. I can't recall hearing the music industry, an industry that hates pirates more than anyone, apart from the movie dudes, complain about people buying CD's or the old LP's in second hand shops. And that used to be fairly common back in the day.
I don't know how much money the movie industry get from rental services but either way, it's less than a normal purchase, yet you see no tears on their cheeks about it (in public, which is my point). There WAS some complaints regarding the rape recorder and the VCR/VHS recorders but it's nothing compared to the amount of crybabyness that the gaming industry show, imho.
Ok, I'll stop buying games used if you stop charging 60 dollars for PC games and start charging 50 again.
Were all stealing OMG call ze police on all of us, we are all thieves! who here has ever bought something 2nd hand? be it a car, movies, video games, electronics, clothes, toys, tools, etc. have you ever gone to a yard sale to purchase something? well according to all these articles, thats stealing and should be illegal. that cordless black and decker drill you bought from a friend because he got a new one, you just took food off the tables of the employees that made that drill!! how does that make you feel now, criminal!!
This whole argument is gone beyond rational thinking. everyone is saying used games are Killing the industry. but it it wasnt for used games, I wouldnt have been able to enjoy many of the games i own in my library. Last week i purchased ICO for the first time and am playing through it now. a game that is out of print and cant be found anywhere. another example is basically any game i didnt really consider a 'must-have' and wasnt going to purchase new anyway.
Some people buy new games at full price only because they know they can sell them on at a later date.
I buy all my games from retail, and simply hate online services.
I do not sell my purchases on, and still have around 100 old ps1 games.
I do not pirate games, but the moment that the industry goes 100% online is the moment I set sail for utorrent!
Besides, the gaming industry should grow the hell up and realise that this practice has been going on in the movie industry for almost a century. I feel that being able to sell a purchased good on should have been part of the constitution!
They are wrong,
You do have the right to do what you want with your personal property, though if you sell it for profit, you're obligated to pay taxes on it.
Plus I think a direct download only market will likely kill alot of sales. For instance, if there wasn't a secondary market, I would never have bought Crackdown 2. The risk of that game is not worth a whole $60 to me. (and for me I was right. Got bored of it the 2nd day)
The secondary market is a safety net that's just not there with DD. In fact, I'd guess after I download my second or third full price game I'm completely unhappy about, which I'm stuck with, gaming will become a lot less important to me altogether.
"First sale doctrine is a right, they already made their profit on the game, they don't deserve a cut every time it changes hands."
But what about the retailer? They sell a game, take it back as a trade-in, re-sell it, take it back as a trade in... and so on.
Why should the developer not be entitled to cut every time the game changes hands, when the retailers are raking it in by doing exactly that?
Perhaps if the retailers gave a fair cut of THEIR resale profits to the publishers and developers, the industry wouldn't feel the need to impose measures such as EA's Online Pass.
im gonna laugh when game devs go on strike and not make games becasue they dont get there royalties. stop crying about the price and show devs appreciation....they do take YEARS out of there live to make a game for us to enjoy
Don't know how it works everywhere, but at my local gamestop, if you buy a used game, within 7 days, you can return it, no questions asked. I like my video games to de-stress after a day of work dealing with a bunch of douchebags, so I don't want to deal with any of those during my gaming time. So I like playing single player. Most single player games now only give you 5-10 hours worth of game, so that gives me incentive to buy used. If I can see everything this game has to offer within 7 days, I can trade it in and check out the next game I want to play. If developers want MY money, they need to quit releasing beta quality games that require patches later, and they need to focus more on the single player aspect of them.
I don't understand everyone hanging on the dev's nuts.. they want to get more sells, all they've to do is lower the dang prices.. 60 is too much, plain and simple. I can go right now and get splinter cell con. for 39.99 used, vice a new price of 59.99. The dev work hard..blah blah blah so the hell do I. this new fad of hating Gamestop is STUPID!! noone makes you go there. no big bad man twists your arm, nothing. there are NO big bad companies..Activision doesn't make anyone pay for MW2... if you have a copy it's because you BOUGHT it. All the little self-entitled brats of the world want to have their cake and eat it too. The whole company bad!!/Dev GOOD!! mentality is naive at best, it shows a lack of even the most basic understanding of how a business is ran. I love Gamestop it's existence allows me to play the newer titles without braking my bank..I'll admit some of their practices are shady, but again NOONE makes me go there.
You've sold your product, you've made your money, now get the f u c k off it. All their attempts to suck as much money of out something as possible will lead to increased piracy. The only people that will be hurt are the honest consumers. 100% digital distribution will not work anytime soon because of the enormous cost involved in making it viable, with two large issues being storage (need AT LEAST 2 TB for an average gamer over 2-3 years) and DISTRIBUTION. How long would it take 60 million gamers in the US to download the next CoD, especially when they all start to d/l at the same time?
The only thing I support is to boycott Gamestop, where you sell or trade in your game for $10-15 and they resell for $45-50. Bet your a s s, though, that developers/publishers are behind the high price of used game at this retailer. The purpose is to deter purchases of used vs newby minimizing the cost difference.
There's also an intangible benefit to used games. There's a lot of awesome games out there, so sometimes I skip good ones in favor of other good ones, even the ones with good hype.
Assassin's Creed 2 was a game I was going to pass over, until a friend lent it to me for free.
I loved the game, and will now purchase the next one when it comes out, and every AC game going forward. Because I liked it so much, I also bought the PSP version of the game.
I think its ok if they encourage people to buy new ( like with figurines, or a code for someone in-game that can only be used once ), but I think trying to restrict it entirely would be a bad idea.
If gaming companies were to make games that actually had some replay value then there would be less of a reason to take a game back to GameStop. I recently had a chance to get thirty dollars for trading in Super Mario Galaxy 2 to GameStop but I didn't because the replayability was too high. On the other hand, although Mirror's Edge was a good game, I'm not holding on to something that can either be beaten in five or six hours or is riddled with glitches to the point of inplayibility (MW2). Also, some of these companies are already making up their lost profit from games that pass through 4 of 5 different people (by $15 dlc and stuff like that). Most gamers hold on to games of high quality for years on end (These are still the same people for the most part, who either still have their SNES and Sega stuff or constantly buy remakes of classic games on Wii Shop, PSN, and XBLA) so why complain about something that can be easily fixed by going all digital or ACTUALLY improving your content?
I think the only option is to make better games. I still play Resident Evil 2. I bought that game when I ws 12 and I am now 26. I keep the good games and get rid of the crap. Also I will not buy any game that you have to use a code to play online. Screw that. EA and Activision can suck my balls. I hate both ofhose companies now. Activision just sucks and EA has enough money. Selling crappy things that you regret buying is a great American past time.
Pure ignorance. In actuality, the used game market stimulates the new market.
Check out youtube.com/l1games. Muzz talks all about it in his videos about online pass.
@anon
I'm talking about the consumer's point of view as well. Differences of several thousand dollars, wear and tear, and model all influence a consumer's decision. The differences between the used and new games are minor. Not so with cars. That's why I said I think there is nowhere near as much overlap between the new and used game market as there is in the new and used car markets. My family can afford a $15,000 used Explorer. There is no way we could afford a new one for $30,000. To the car industry, we aren't a lost sale, because we could never buy a new car to begin with.
As for movies, books, and music, while those markets exist, they are nowhere near the used game market level. GameStop is one of the biggest game retailers and they actively promote used game sales over new. They offer incentives to buy used and trade in through coupons and Edge cards. I don't see Borders or Barnes & Noble doing that. GameStop makes buying used games far more convenient than movies or books
Your Mom, (and anyone else who this might benefit)
Gaming is on a distribution model. All games in the US go through one of three giant distribution companies. There are contracts set up so this is the only way games get to market. Retailers generally pay 90-93% of retail costs (literally $55 for a $59 game.) to the distributors. Consoles are often bought at a loss. This is how they control pricing and one reason smaller retail companies cannot compete.
There is very litle profit in new game sales. If you pay $55 for a game, add in shipping, stocking time, shelf space, some schmuck to sell it, etc. etc., you're making no money on it. See how mom and pop game stores aren't going to last?
people need to be smart about trading in there games or consoles even, i trade my stuff in when its super cheap and i dont want it ne more, i just traded in a broken 60 gig that got the ylod 4 times to gamestop, id rather give it to a company that f**ks all of us then sell it to some kid, i would feel bad, now i dont, ill buy used games from people then trade them in, even if there crap games as long as gamestop will take them for more then 8$ for trade in deals, the only games ill buy brand new are good ones that are made good, batman aa was amazing, mw2, god of war 3 nhl 10, everything else ill burn for my 360 for nothing, music burn if its a good cd ill go buy it, u make 1 good song for a 16 track cd im not givin u money for it, the good thing about piracy is its making them make better stuff, movies download if its good ill buy it on blu ray, they gotta learn one way or another
C-LOVE
so here's my 2 cents: GameStop (and every other retailer out there) purchase mass quantities of games when they are released to ensure in-stock availability for as long as possible, whether that game is sold the first day/week/month/etc. The publisher already made their money, and in turn the developer, for every copy that the retailer purchased at full price. Now, if a consumer decided to buy said game the sale goes to the retailer, not the publisher/developer. If the consumer decides to wait for a price drop to purchase their game new, then the retailer has taken a loss (no matter how small). Those customers who wait for a price drop and still buy new, because they think they are supporting the devlopers, are basically creating a loss for the developer as well, since they didn't pay full price anyways. I guess the point I am trying to make is: if you are going to cry foul at buying used games, make sure you buy games at full price to "help" the publisher/developer make their $$.
That's all bullshit. Retailers get almost nothing out of new games. I don't wanna protect Gamestop, but they can't have a good profit with only new games sells with today's business model. Online distribution used as a way to control our buying habits is total bullshit too. The best of customer's interest my ass.
well duh the same god damned thing happens in the auto industry as well. you dont effing see THEM crying like babies. if you buy a used car from a place other than the actual manufacturer of the vehicle or the place that sold it in the first place, OMG they don't see the profits of that sale and never will again because gasp! it isn't their effing car anymore and they've already made money off the original purchase.
same could be said about car rentals as well, so I don't know where these douche bag game developers get off thinking they are special and get to avoid being a part of the used sales market.
I buy used books, CD's and movies as well so does that make ma a dirty rotten thief. I also buy new books and CD's the same goes for games. Let's say I buy DCM3 used I like it so much I buy DCM4 new they have still made money off of me and I do buy new games if I like them enough. If these greedy jackasses think they can tell me what should be buying they've got another thing coming. I buy used game because I can't always afford a new one. I could just quit gaming for good if they piss me off enough that way they don't have to worry about me buying used or new games for that matter.
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