If you went to college or work in the corporate world, chances are you know at least a few people that work for one of the Big 4 firms of PricewaterhouseCoopers, Deloitte & Touche, KPMG, or Ernst & Young. The chances are even greater that these people like to talk about work. It's pretty much all they have. Sadly, many of them have a mental complex that boosts their ego and leaves them begging for the opportunity to let people know how busy and important they are. Don't let them fool you.
Big 4 employees love to talk about work. But, unlike most professions, they realize their trade is about as boring as they come. To make up for this, they are constantly reminding friends and family of how CRAZY BUSY they are and all the places they've flown to during projects. They'll tell you horror stories of 85 hour work weeks, and 12 hour days for 7 straight days. Big 4 employees publicize their busy season nightmares under the guise of agony, but in reality, the majority of them love every minute of it.
Big 4 employees use fagony (fake agony) when talking about the busy season as a way to let others know how important they are without explicitly bragging. They are no different than a student who attends college and fagonizes over how much work they have, how difficult their workload is, or how hard their major is. Or a stay at home mother who fagonizes how much work it is to make organic meals for their children and teach them foreign languages before they nap. Fagonists come in many flavors, but they have two things in common:
1. Constant use of fagonism. Fagonists do not just fagonize once in a while. Almost all of their conversations include some form of fake agony used to impress innocent bystanders.
2. Failure to impress. Their cries may be disguised for sympathy, but what they truly want is for listeners to be impressed. They fail on both counts. A fagonist is most often described as pathetic.
Fagony has spread through the Big 4 like the plague.
Why? Because Big 4 employees are brainwashed.
They graduate from college and join one of the Big 4 firms right out of college. The Big 4 firms can deliver what other companies cannot. They cater to 22 year old graduates. They give them shiny laptops and a nice bag to tote around from city to city. They promise them with great opportunities for travel. They offer a youthful culture that is unmatched. An estimated 60-80% of your colleagues will be under the age of 28 (and smoking hot). It's like college after college. But more importantly, they define the image of what a 22 year old believes a professional career is. The opportunities are limitless and they dream of one day making boat loads of cash like the partners flaunt. To a 22 year old, The Big 4 companies represent the major leagues. Everything else is for people who couldn't cut it.
When the rainbows and unicorns become a real job, they justify their decision. They make bold claims that they are receiving training that could not be acquired through any other company or school. As they get a few years under their belt, and realize their youth may soon be nothing but work memories, they continue to justify their decision. They'll tell people about all the great places they traveled and how there is no other situation in which they would have seen those destinations. And as they get a little older, and they are twice divorced, they will continue to justify their decision. Because, if they hadn't focused on their career, they wouldn't have a shot at becoming partner. And when they do or don't become a partner, they will once again look back and justify their decision. And their spouse and friends will be there to support their decision. Because they all work together, fagonize together, and will live their work infested lives inside their professional bubbles together.
Join the Facebook group - I'm coming out of the closet. I admit, I'm a Big 4 fagonist
> Big 4 employees are indentured servants
> Big 4 t-shirts on Zazzle.com
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Life in The Cubicle by Dudley B. Dawson
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Comments
As a former employee of one of these companies, I cannot disagree with anything you've written other than the fact that many of us get out before it's too late. But for those that are currently working there and for those who stay...dead on. I cannot deny the fact that I shared my agony with others and until now, never really thought about the fact that I may have been doing it to brag about what I thought was a cool job. I'm still not sure I was, but I can't deny it.
I definitely agree that there are truths to this article. However, there are several cases, where the opposite of what you say is true. For example, I have access to public company CEOs, CFOs and other top executives at 25 years old, which is not something that my private company counter parts can say. Plus, generally speaking, staying until you make manager for a year or two and then getting out will move someone up the corporate latter much faster than if they go straight into private or leave before manager. At the end of the day, though, one of the following must be true I have one question for you ... jealous much?! This is not the first time you have written an article in attempts to belittle and humiliate big 4 employees. So, I am sure that you have your reasons; however, at the end of the day, it is the result of jealousy.
We call it the Accounting Martyrdom. Its almost like a competition with bragging rights about who has suffered the most this week. It can be about any kind of suffrage: working till 3am, working through lunch, dealing with the infamously picky bosses. Some of us just prefer to stay quiet, lay low and hope no one realizes that we have a life outside of work.
Dudley, your right I made this career choice because of the "promised opportunities, cool stuff they give us, travel and of course the smoking hot babes (mostly in the tax department, and I'm in audit unforunately)" I learned after about 1 week how miserable it really is and want out. I'm not trying to justify how bad it is, I just want a new job. Maybe you should make a continuation of this article to explain the best way to get out of this hell that my co-workers call "a life"
I assume a few people are jealous, but the fact that you say you have access to CEO/CFO at the age of 25 makes me laugh. Do you really think that your opinion is really valued as a 2nd or 3rd year Associate? As a recruiter I speak to these CEO/CFO all the time. Just because they walk by you doesn't mean you have access to them. Regarding staying till you are Manager will open doors faster for you is false. Let's take a look at a Big Four candidate who left after 3 or 4 years and went into a Publicly Traded Company, say into an internal audit function. This person after two years in their Audit group will be much more valuable to them then say a 1st or 2nd year Manager from the Big Four. I can tell you this because I hear these CEO/CFO people, that you say you have access to, tell me this on multiple occasions while they look to hire key people in their organization. So settle down with your jealous comment and work to be top ranked in your firm and get out before you become a Manager.
I completely disagree with the fact that you think Big 4 employees think it is cool to work as much as we do. I admit, the first year that I spent working long hours, I was proud of myself and did think I was better than most employees; however, that has long passed. I now realize how demeaning and worthless this job is and how pathetic it has made my life. Its hard to find time to do anything other than work and sleep and I know that is not cool. Getting the $50 grand paycheck out of college was awesome but 3 years later at around the same pay level while my friends at Google our making over $100K - not cool. I want out and so do most people at this firm. The part we are all really agonizing over is that the company keeps us so busy and overworked that we don't even have time to fill out our forms to get our CPA license or to update our resume that so many recruiters want to see. Big 4 firms are and have always been slave labor and I as well as most hope to be out in a year.
Spot on. You people need to get over yourselves, you aren't that important and if you get hit by a bus tomorrow, you will regret the way you have wasted the best parts of your young lives. The ladies are hot though, makes the long day shorter. Only reason I could put up with it for 3 years.
Hey Jealous,
Are you so delusional that you actually think you have 'access' to CEOs and CFOs? I guarantee they value their SECRETARY'S opinion more than some random 25 year old slave. Your comments just reinforce Dudley's assertion that you have been brainwashed to think that everybody else is just jealous and your 'fringe' benefits outweigh the fact that you work 100 hours a week and get paid $4 an hour when its all said and done.
What's so bad about working for the Big 4? I've worked at Deloitte and PwC and I've enjoyed it just as much as I would any other job. It's work, but they pay you well and treat you well. I never complain about it.
Depends on who you working with. There are people who will respest you and treat you well. While others doesnt give a shit.
Thanks for the new term Dudley. F@gony and f@gonizing are all too common in the world of young lawyers as well.
"Jealous?" - I've got absolutely nothing to be jealous about. I don't work in accounting or audit. But, I do see these people living miserable lives and believing the nonsense these companies feed them. Your example of "having access to CEOs" is a perfect example of being completely brainwashed.
Do you think the majority of people actually care about this? Do you think it actually matters? While you go on caring about your exposure to executives, they'll continue on making 50-100k more than you.
I bet those administrative assistants sure look impressive with all the access they have to C-level execs.
Like we really care about our laptops!!!
This article was very poorly written. It’s obvious the author has some jealousy issues. Yes, you will work a lot of hours at the Big 4. But, you will also work on some high profile engagements. Many of your clients will also be major public companies. The training you will get both formal in-class room and informal is exceptional. You will also have on your resume a name, a brand, that is known and RESPECTED in the global business community. The Big 4 won’t even look at you unless you have top grades from top universities. This guy is just jealous. Go look at the job boards, most F500 even F1000 companies want that Big 4 name on the resume. Where do you think most F500 CFOs initially worked at? This guy is an idiot. I think it was Business Week magazine in 07 or 08 that ranked D&T as the best place to launch your career, the rest of the Big 4 weren’t trailing to far either.
Oh one more thing ahole. We are important! It was us that brought down the financial mkts in early 2000 and wiped your mommy's 401k. We are the ones that decide what your daddy's portfolio is worth and we advise on the mergers of the companies that run this country. While all your buddies went to college and got degrees in Marketing and sociology we got real degrees and in the worst economic downturn we can still get a high paying job while they're all living in mommy's basement.
Hey "Jealous?" how many corporate "latters" do you plan on climbing with that ridiculous grammar and lack of spelling ability?
Those CEO and CFOs you claim to have access to don't even know your name. What--do you request the outstanding check list from them when you audit cash for 2 weeks?? Get over yourself.
Also Jealous,
When you are having your wonderful one-on-ones with your favorite CFO, are these conversations happening on the golf course or at 10pm on a Friday night while you're looking forward to heading to the home office the next day because the admin FINALLY ordered Portillo's for lunch?
HVA - You're so arrogant it's hard to believe you're serious, but I wouldn't put it past someone who has been brainwashed. Your comment solidifies everything I've written (poorly) up above. "High profile engagements", "global business community", you're like a walking bulls**t bingo card. BIG PUBLIC COMPANIES? Watch out WORLD!
And to think that the Big 4 only hire the best and brightest when they are turning over tens of thousands of 20 something year olds on a monthly basis is absolutely laughable. If you are presentable, and have at least an average head on your shoulders, you're in.
At no point did I argue against the fact that it's a decent place to start your career. It is because it's accepted as the industry accepted standard route. That doesn't make it a great opportunity. It's all bulls**t and you're eating all of it up.
I'm not jealous, I don't even work in that industry and never intended to. But I am observant and my obersvations were correct and you proved it. Tha
You're a funny guy Dudley! So you're not an accountant, have never worked in a Big 4 firm, you probably think SOX is a Chicago Baseball team, and can’t tell the difference between live stock and preferred stock yet you have such strong opinions about the Big 4. You know that means. ZERO! credibility my friend. Go write about something you know about!
HVA - I work in technology and I was employed by Accenture for 2 years. A very similar experience to what my friends experienced while working for Big 4 firms in accounting or consulting. There is one huge difference between people like yourself and people who get in and get out because they realize the only important item is having the company name on their resume: You have an inflated sense of importance. You believe you are an integral and vital part of the corporate world because you work for the Big 4 and it is YOU who controls the destiny of the world's economic stability. And it is because of people like YOU why the Big 4 can completely take advantage of people.
Your suit, carry-on luggage, high profile engagements, and proximity to C-level executives do not make you important. They make you a fool, and an arrogant ahole who boasts about the intricate details of their profession which are mind numbingly boring and have nothing to do with the argument presented.
Your article, while it had a chance to be funny ended up mean-spirited and offensive. Blogs are an easy way to lob grenades at an unsuspecting group. It must really offend you that people who are working hard feel the need to talk about it. Additionally, the term you coined is clearly derogatory, unnecessary and simply here to cover the lack of content. There are plenty of things to criticize about the Big 4 and many of the people employed by them and similar organizations, but clearly you're not up to the task. Also, debating the merits of your article in the comments section of your own post is like laughing at your own joke, you just don't do it. If you'd made a sound, reasoned point it would be clear from the post.
Bloggist - The intent in this article was to be mean spirited. It didn't just end up that way. Also, you're a hypocrite, because your "lobbing grenades" the same way everyone does online. Grow a pair and deal with it. It doesn't offend me when people working hard have to talk about it. Unfortunately, Big 4 employees don't understand what "working hard" really is. Forcing yourself to stay at an office for 16 hours isn't "hard work". The term is not derogatory, it is a perfect mix of two legit words that describe what Big 4 employees do on a daily basis -- it just happens to look like a derogatory term. And, I feel I have been up to the task of ripping into Big 4 practices because people have been coming to read these two articles quite frequently, many of them former Big 4 employees (or current) who have a sense of humor and humility. Something you are lacking.
Also, I'm not a professional journalist and adding comments in my own posts is part of the trade in blogs and the like.
Who are you to write about employee life at the Big 4!? Go write about Accenture and the technology field. I know they are similar but not the same thing, now are they??? I mean are you the guy that visits Chicago and then writes an op-ed about how sh.itty New York is because they are similar and you have friends that live in NY….come on man. Just stop writing. You makes yourself look like a fool. Btw, I did get in and get out.
HVA - you are a complete tool. You are probably that guy I saw at the airport yesterday, throwing a temper tantrum because he didn't get upgraded to first class. Never, never, NEVER measure your self-importance by the job you have; you always come out looking like a completely delusional moron.
Bloggist - you may have missed the website you read Dudley's article on. It is Examiner.com; it is a horrible website with AMATEUR writers. Do not consider it a professional journalism site. Now, we all appreciate Dudley's work very much and it makes me tinkle a bit with laughter every day, but he is not a professional. Alas, he is free to call you an idiot in the comments section. Just as I am. Idiot.
HVA - stop writing. You're making yourself look worse with every reply. Just stop.
Hey Benny. You're prob that guy that graduated with a sociology degree from 4th Tier school and hate the fact that you're actually happy making 40K a year. Never Never Never opine on a subject you know nothing about, you always come out looking like a completely delusional moron. I bet you're a recruiter.
As a former employee of PwC, I can assure you, people like the commenter HVA outnumber normal people by about 5 to 1. This article is incredibly accurate. A VERY large portion of employees at the Big 4 firms walk into these companies like they are professionals helping amateurs. In reality, the Big 4 firms are filled with amateurs performing the work that professionals don't have time to do but it's required by law. So they push it off on 22 year olds who take it very seriously. It's quite amazing what these firms are able to pull off. We are essentially performing clerical duties and we feel important. Thank god I left after 3 years and found a real job.
Awesome, simply awesome. Great article, and even better back and forth in the comments. Referring to a school as "4th tier" pretty much sums up how big of a dooshbag some people can be at the company I work for (KPMG). Not all dooshbags...some good cats there, but HVA pretty much represents that contingent of pricks.
Great article Dudley! HVA is the perfect example of how Big 4 firms are able to force people into slave labor. I spent two long years at Deloitte and can agree with Gabby. The HVAs outnumber sane employees by about 5 to 1. They are fooled into thinking the long hours and mediocre pay are a badge of honor and distinction. They are also fooled into thinking that the longer they stay, the better their prospects will be when they leave. They are the type of people who actually think they are important to a company because they understand SOX and ESOPs. They will never admit that they are glorified temps. It really is a brilliant model that they've developed! I'm surprised more industries have not attempted to copy it.
Hey Benny. You're prob that guy that graduated with a sociology degree from 4th Tier school and hate the fact that you're actually happy making 40K a year. Never Never Never opine on a subject you know nothing about, you always come out looking like a completely delusional moron. I bet you're a recruiter.
Amusing article - I do have to say that as a Recruiter for a large Consulting Firm, the hiring managers in my firm reinforce the elitist attitude of these folks, as they will RARELY consider someone (for most roles) who does not have a Big 4 foundation. You can have EVERYTHING else, but without Big 4 we will take a pass. It's really infuriating when there are so many very qualified people who just don't happen to have Big 4 experience.
While there are certainly some people in the Big 4 who are d-bags (like HVA), there aren't many other professions where someone straight out of college can be exposed to so many different complex business issues. While the Big 4 new hire isn't making the decision, they certainly get to understand it better than a 24 year old who joined that company as a staff accountant. And, any recruiter who claims that Big 4 experience doesn't make a difference and staying though manager is not a good move is clearly kidding themself.
First of all, I'm not a blogger, nor do I work for the Big 4. You aren't funny, the same way writers like Tucker Max aren't funny. By coining a ridiculous term, you come off sounding like a bigot and a homophobe in addition to a holier than thou a-hole. You're better than these people because they complain to your face and you write a generalizing blog post? Again, there's plenty to make fun of here, but you went about it the wrong way.
Bloggist,
I didn't realize that you were the internet's Comedy Sheriff. If you don't like it, just shut up and go away.
Big 4 experience,
You should step out of your little world and understand that Accounting is a small part of an overall business. There are many REAL opportunities outside of accounting where recruiters could care less if you are BIG 4. The not-so-secret fact is that these businesses know that you are faukin clueless. Do you know why? Because ALL 24 year olds are faukin clueless. It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for a 24 year old to possess enough knowledge and experience at a Fortune 500 company to have any meaningful impact at an executive level. So you may THINK you are getting good exposure to that world, but you really are not very different than the janitor that cleans their toilet seats. Perceived complexity at the age of 24 is child's play after 10-20 years of real-world experience. Even if a few of those years are near the bottom of the organization.
Excellent article Dudley!!! Hahahaha. As a former ey employee I can assure all that. But I disagree with one thing. Almost 80% of the employees are not happy there. People like HVA is not the rule. But yes, HVAs are disguting guys. They always think (actually trully think) that they are a very important part of society and their work is critical for the survival of the world. Hahahha, its an operational job. You are an idiot. Auditors can´t see huge frauds like Madoff.
You obviously do not understand that the world/money is made by these hard workers. Jealousy is the cuase of this article.
You probably tried to get a job at one of these companies and were rejected.
very very true!! they are the real hard workers. I am one of them. and very veryyy Happy.
With times the way they are right now. No one should complain if they have a job. There are so many who are scraping by, leveled out their savings and are at the end or not eligible for unemployment. Those who have money coming in hand over fist are truly lucky but should think of those they discuss matters to. It might be taken the wrong way. Not jealously but demeaning those who also work hard and were bumped down for not being so high on the corporate ladder. Have a heart people...there are two ways of seeing both sides.
Winona Cooking Examiner,
I've noticed a couple of your comments in Dudley's articles lately. Do you make comments like this in real life? If so, then you are likely the MOST DEPRESSING person to be around. You make it sound like we are in a Great Depression. I'm sure it feels that way in Winona. Maybe you should move out of that miserable little town and realize that its not all doom and gloom.
Robin,
Please explain how hard working accountants (who earn jack-$hit, by the way) make the world/money. You are fauking delusional.
Robin says:
You obviously do not understand that the world/money is made by these hard workers. Jealousy is the cuase of this article.
You probably tried to get a job at one of these companies and were rejected.
QFE!! i was totally thinking the same thing. Some true points, but the whole argument seems a bit excessive. Hourly rate for those guys is low for a few years, but many don't hang around to become managers... a lot move to other businesses and get paid rather well.
Dudley, I work for a Big 4, and I can say your account is bunk.
Those who work long hours don't brag about it - but you can still spot them by their bloodshot eyes, desk gut, and pale skin (vitamin D deficiencies are common).
For that reason people only stay for 3 to 5 years, knowing it's a powerful springboard to much better opportunities.
What attracts and keeps people at the Big 4 for that period are: a) internal resources are awesome (including unlimited training opportunities); b) not all work is compliance and there is some intellectually challenging and interesting work; c) Big 4 looks good on the CV; d) support for professional accreditation; e) incredible mentors; f) fantastic networks (many find brilliant jobs at Big 4 clients).
I suspect your article has been inspired by the remarks of a couple of new recruits who are going through their honeymoon period - and you've imagined/projected the rest... and it's missed the mark.
I wish I got paid to crap on - like
Dudley, I also worked for a Big 4 for 3 months, and I can say your article is a very accurate depiction. But you'll never get any of these dooshbags to admit it.
As you stated, they don't outwardly brag about their long hours, but nearly ALL of them take pride in it. It's like a badge of honor and they somehow believe it makes them more professional than their clients.
The most interesting part about what this d-bag said below is that there are great mentors at the Big 4. Yet, all of these people admit that you should get in and get out within 2-5 years. So, where are the mentors? They are working directly for the client at better jobs. You want to work closely with good mentors? Work for the client. The only mentors you'll have with more than 5 years experience are the people who ARE brainwashed...just as Dudley pointed out.
i agree with a couple of yours comments to do with college like.
but realistically big 4 employee graduates earn absoloulty no money, would hardly travel due to "environmental" reasons.
The culture is of young people who want to leave to bigger and better things. The job is more like 3 year sentence, to get your CA and get out.
The busy season is a joke, there is no respect given to employees. Its more of an expectation.
Although the parties are EPIC.
I had already worked for a big four for many years and I traveled a lot during this period. You can learn a lot working a company like that, but you don´t earn enough money to keep your "normal life". In my opinion nothing pays to be next your family and friends and I could notice that after leaving a big four company...
The busy season is a joke, there is no respect given to employees. Its more of an expectation.
I know lots of people that work at Deloitte, and I can tell you that they love almost every minute of year. They increased their network and social friends exponentially and I trully believe that some of them will make very good money and will be pretty successful in their future lifes.
I already signed contrat with one of the Big4 and I do not regret it at all. I know that it will be an open door to almost every job that I may want... and if I don't like, it is simple: I quit, and I'll get an even better job.
what the fuuck is this guy on about. big4 people dont work long hours. they have awesome lifetyles. and your opportunities are far from limitless
Lol reading this thread is quite interesting. As a big 4 employee I can say that some of these points are definitely quite humorous; although I do sense a big of jealousy in the blogger. But the point of a blog isn't to be professional, but to say your opinion and add some flare and I can certainly say we have all felt the points this article brings out at some time.
As for opportunities down the line, it is very transparent that having Big 4 on your resume opens doors that non Big 4 doesn't. Does this mean Big 4 employees should gloat or that we are better? No, of course it doesn't, after all these beginning years are just a microcosm to our entire career path. But an average recruiter would choose a candidate with big 4 experience over one who does not given every other qualification is the same; this is mostly true, although there are definitely exceptions. Is this fair? Probably not. But that's just how the world works; and you'd be lying to yourself if you didn't admit that. But is a shiny brand name worth some of the hours and crap you have to put up with? Well that is contestable - just like everything in life.
So for big 4 employees, take a chill pill guys and learn to laugh at yourself. For non big 4 employees, there are douchebags and there are normal people; please do not assume we are all douchebags.
all--
stop hating on each other and talk about what job they should have or not. look, I am working in one of firm and i enjoy it not because they are big four or what other silly reasons you presented. i enjoy it because i get expose to questions and projects that are challenge and worthy of spending hours of day researching to find solution to them. And about long hours, i never want to be the person who everyday waits the clock to turn 4:59pm so i can go home and feel good about myself. if you start your professional career (say you just finish college) and has a mentality of working and learning as least as you can, good luck with preciously american dream.
The only reason I still stay in : could not found an employer who will pay me the same salary with my 2 years work experience
But I wish to leave... Big 4 is a BigFakedream
Dud,
Are you in highschool?
You bitch and moan like a girl with boy problems.
Grow a pair and stop being so pathetic.
Big 4 hire the elite students. They pay them massive salaries out of college. They have unmatched resources--internal and external. Most importantly: the firm KNOWS that (a) the knowledge it vests in employees makes them supremely marketable and (b) that it works them really hard. Based on these 2 very simple (even for you) facts, the recruiters are well aware that more than 50% will leave after making manager.
90,000--110,000 people apply to PwC on an annual basis. a miserable fraction of that are given the opportunity. Look at any reputable ranking of firms--the Big 4 lead in most categories. Only lazy, unmotivated marketing/IT people can't see the reward of a few years of intense learning and getting the best possible name on your resume.
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