The state of indoor soccer: One-on-one with NISL Commissioner David Grimaldi

On May 31, 2008, the Major Indoor Soccer League announced that it was ceasing operations, leaving indoor soccer fans wondering what would come next in a long line of struggles, confusion and doubt of any type of optimistic future.

Just a few months later, the Xtreme Soccer League formed.  With owners from the old MISL unable to agree on operational tactics

, the XSL featured just four teams: the Detroit Ignition, the Milwaukee Wave, the Chicago Storm and the New Jersey Ironmen.

After just one year of operation, the XSL announced in July that it would go on hiatus for a year, though any type of return in the future seems bleak. 

Meanwhile, the Professional Arena Soccer League (PASL-Pro) and the National Indoor Soccer League, both of which also formed in 2008, still exist today and are looking to find a way to establish indoor soccer as a stable professional sport.

With the XSL on hiatus, it seems that the NISL poses the best chance to do that.  The league featured five teams in Baltimore, Massachusetts, Philadelphia, Monterrey (Mexico) and Rockford (Illinois) last year, and Milwaukee has made the switch to the NISL this year.

Now, the league looks to expand smartly and create more of a national footprint while focusing hard on developing its current franchises and bring indoor soccer back to its glory days as it enjoyed in the '70's and 80's.

In a one-on-one interview, NISL Commissioner David Grimaldi talked about everything from expansion to the split between the XSL and the NISL.  There is still a lot left to be seen, but Grimaldi and company have several plans up their sleeves for expanding the game of indoor soccer.

Jeff Kassouf:  Firstly, what is the NISL going to look like this season as far as teams go, particularly with former XSL teams such as Milwaukee?

David Grimaldi:  We've completed the entire admission process.  There really is no imputative there relative to Milwaukee joining in.  The new owner Jim Lindenberg is very, very good.  It's going to basically be a formality, so Milwaukee is our new team in the NISL.

JK:  Will there be anymore?

Grimaldi:  Well, yes.  At this point I've been in active discussions with Dallas - with the former SideKicks owner Sonny Williams.  Gordon Jago has been helping me with that effort and helping Sonny.  We're basically evaluating arenas and the opportunity is there.  Caesar Cervin has been active along with Tatu. 

The issue we've got with Dallas is more so of when, rather than whether they will play.  There is an issue of can we in fact have Dallas play this year and that be a success or would it be prudent of us to delay it until next year and move in that direction.  So, that's the process that we are in the mix of and in discussions about and obviously an arena would have an impact there.  Availability of dates - good dates - would have an impact.  Players and a competitive team shouldn't be an issue.  There are just too many players out there that are available to play.

But, that's Dallas.  We've got another location down in McAllen, Texas or Hidalgo that is looking very, very certain.  There's a good group of Mexican businessmen and they've got relationships with our Monterrey team.  That is looking very certain and I've had numerous discussions with potential teams, maybe not for this season, but the following season.  You know, it's just remarkable that with the current economic conditions that we are dealing with, I've got a lot of locations that are coming out and kicking the tires and are really looking at this very closely.  And, a number of them are former markets - MISL markets, NPSL markets and WISL markets, so it's very, very encouraging.

JK:  Would the Hidalgo team be a relationship with Monterrey or its own team?

Grimaldi:  Oh, no, that would be its own team.  It's just that some of the owners are actually from Monterrey and they were season ticket holders with La RaZa.  They loved the game.  Our game is played in Mexico and it's called futbol rapido and they play with boards.  A lot of their venues are actually outdoors because of the weather, but they are in the process of building a new arena in Mexico City. 

They've got an arena in Pachuca; they've got, obviously, one of the finest arenas in North America with Arena Monterrey.  All of those are potential sites for new teams in our league.  We've been having discussions through the president of our Monterrey team, Miguel Garza.  But, there's a lot of interest down in Mexico on moving forward.  Right now the peso though has been hit hard, so you've got that currency issue.

JK:  So does that kind of bridge the gap geographically with Monterrey being alone out there and help with operational costs?

Grimaldi:  Oh it certainly does.  Our priorities - there was a time when I played back in the original MISL in the late '70's and early '80's, wherever you could get a team, you brought it on board.  The new MISL, when I was working as deputy commissioner for Steve [Ryan], had the same approach - start in California and bring them on board even though they are all alone and they have to fly to everywhere to play a game.  The economics start to hurt the team.  We take an approach that we want to expand our league in a geographically rational manner. 

So, when we talk about the east and we talk about Philly and Baltimore - we've got Hampton Roads now in Virginia Beach and Norfolk and they'll either come on board this year and play, but they'll absolutely come on board next year and play.  They've paid the fees and everything else, so now they are in the capital earning process, so we're excited about that.  I've had some very, very productive discussions with Harrisburgh and the intention there is to bring back the Heat. 

So, now all of a sudden you've got Philly, Baltimore, Harrisburg, Hampton Roads and hopefully New Jersey, and we can create, basically, almost like a Mid-Atlantic Conference.  We unbalance the schedule and they can bus and create that rivalry that we need but then still play a Milwaukee and a Rockford and a Chicago and a Monterrey and a Dallas.  If we do that in locations where we already have the original founding teams, we can do the same thing in New England.  I've got discussions going on in Hartford, Providence, Albany, and Burlington, Vermont, and all very productive, some of them more so than others obviously.

JK:  Albany is actually very close to me.  I would personally love to see that if it could work.

Grimaldi:  The PASL, before they became the PASL Pro, actually had a final up there and when I was the MISL Deputy Commissioner I established a relationship with the PASL to use their players and to get additional training for our referees.  But they ran their final up in the Albany area one year, but that would be a market that would work quite well.  And then Jim May - he brings back Buffalo and we see if we can get the Stallions resurrected again from years past and we can try to do some other creative things.

JK:  It sounds like there are a lot of options out there.  Is there any point when you say it is too much too fast?  Is there any type of timeline?

Grimaldi:  Well, again our growth is going to be modest.  We really are having one team with one hundred percent certainty and that is Milwaukee.  If we can get Dallas to say yes this year - even though I have some reservations about them pulling the trigger this year versus next - if we add one, two and if we get really lucky, three teams, then that is fine.  And then what we do is we try to move the agenda forward and do something similar to that. 

But again, growing the league - expansion for expansion's sake - is not what we are going to do.  We want, number one, well-funded and committed individuals.  We've got that in Jim Lindenburg in Milwaukee.  The guy is just dynamo and he sold his primary business off a while ago and now he is just so excited about the league.  So, we want that type of person, but what we want most is sustainability.  We want to know that the funds and the capital are being invested in the team - to sell the team and not worry so much about a national television contract with ESPN or with Versus or with someone like that.  That tended to be a little focus item at the MISL and it was costing a heck of a lot of money.  And we also had some teams that were being funded and subsidized by other teams that were failing and they were putting additional strains on our good teams. 

So, we've got to avoid those types of poor decisions, and we've also got to realize who we are and what we are.  We are not the NFL, we're not Major League Baseball, we're not even the MLS.  We've got to grow the league and continue to get into solid markets where we know we can do well and eventually start with maybe television relative to playoffs and finals and start from there.  But, we feel we need to be very practical about it.

JK:  And what is the status with teams like, specifically, Chicago and New Jersey?  Are they trying to come over to the NISL?

Grimaldi:  Well, Chicago is a done deal.  They will not be going in.  Our intention is actually to put a team in Chicago next season.  Our Rockford owners believe that they can do that.  We've been in discussions to get that done not this year, but next year.  New Jersey: The hopes are there that we can get New Jersey to join.  They've asked me for a little bit more time to evaluate this season. 

For the most part, they've lost a lot of money because their revenues haven't been supporting their business.  But, the hopes are that we can get New Jersey to join the NISL.  Michael Gilfillan very much wants to play in our league and I think Jeff [Vanderbeek] is also interested, but I know Omid Namazi and Tony Novo and the rest of the players would love to join the NISL and play competitively against Baltimore again and Philadelphia.  So that's our hope. 

Detroit:  I can't offer comment on Detroit because I've had absolutely no discussion.  The only thing I know is Detroit is selling their carpet.  They're selling everything; they've closed up their offices.  They've basically shut down, as has Chicago.

JK:  A lot was made of the split between the XSL and the NISL.  What do you see that will make the NISL succeed where the XSL might have failed?

Grimaldi:  Well, I think pure and simple is our business model.  Again, they believed that the single entity was the way to go and that itself requires a lot of initial capital funding because you've got a commissioner, basically a deputy commissioner in Mike Lafferty, you've got a full staff, you've got offices.  All of that is a lot of capital that needs to be pumped into that area. 

On top of that, I think they opted to brand themselves as extreme soccer, again something that our owners - and I agree - was not the way to go.  I guess it just gives everyone the impression of a real odd type of sport, and the bottom line is we're still soccer.  I mean, we play with boards and we play with the plexi and everything else, but ultimately our game is soccer.  We're about maintaining that connection and that is why we want to stay part of the USSF, which we've maintained and we want to continue to promote the game the way that we have. 

But I think it is a combination.  And the fact that we've got very, very strong teams that I think have demonstrated sustainability.  We've got Baltimore that I think sets the pace.  We've got Philadelphia that has been in existence for a long time.  You've got Monterrey that came on board, but that's been a success no matter how you look at it.  And now we've added Milwaukee to Rockford and Massachsetts and that's the reason we've been successful.  And, on top of that, we've got a group of owners and team executives that work very, very well together.  We are looking for ways to make that sustainable.

JK:  With smaller franchises like Massachusetts and Rockford and larger ones like Baltimore, how do you level the playing field on and off the field?  Are teams helping each other out?

Grimaldi:  No.  Again, a salary cap is only permitted in a single-entity structure.  I controlled that when I was at the MISL.  In the current model, the teams have to be prudent enough because they are operating their own individual teams as franchise models.  Certainly, what I tried to press upon the teams is that you've got revenues that can only sustain a certain level of expenditure.  So, you've got to be practical.  There is no point in spending a ton of money and I think Rockford proves the point because Rockford is not a huge market and they ended up making it to the finals against Baltimore. 

Again, if a team can generate a lot more revenue and they can be very successful in ticket sales and sponsorships and soccer camps, in merchandise, local televisions stuff and those types of deals - webcasting - then obviously they can dedicate more of the money toward stuff like player salaries.  But, that's all got to be worked out at the team level.

JK:  And what is an average player salary?

Grimaldi:  Well, I'll be candid with you:  I'm not involved in that side of the equation anymore.  At the MISL obviously for seven years I had to sign all the contracts so I knew exactly what everyone was making, but again, as commissioner now I don't require knowing that information.  I look at just line-item stuff from a bunch of perspectives.  But, to be candid with you, I think we are all over the map.  It's a number that might be similar to what we had at the MISL.

JK:  You look at Massachusetts and they averaged just triple digits for attendance.  What needs to be done to improve that situation?

Grimaldi:  I know what we discussed with Paul [LaPointe] and myself in particular is trying to find potentially a better venue for him to play in - a better market.  Possibly a Hartford or possibly a Providence, Rhode Island, two locations where we had interest from the MISL days.  So, I think the ideal situation is to marry up another investor with Paul and relocate the team to a market like - myself; I would like to see Providence, Rhode Island.  It's a very, very strong soccer area.  They've got large Portuguese leagues there and they play very, very well and I think that would be an ideal move.  But, that I think is what we need to do with Massachusetts and Paul, I think, is in agreement with me.

JK:  And is that what you are looking at when you mentioned Rockford and Chicago as well or would those be two separate markets?

Grimaldi:  No.  Right now the hopes are that Rockford would have two teams, because obviously what they have done is - and this is again some of the type of branching out we are trying to do - but they have bought the Chicago Magic, which is one of the largest youth soccer organizations in the country.  But no, their intention is - we are talking about putting a second team in Chicago and linking that team with a Mexican First Division team, with Mexico being such a dominant presence when it comes to the Hispanic population.  So, the objective there is to put a second team in Chicago and they would play at the UIC Pavilion or where the Storm played over at the Sears Center.

JK:  Do you see those relationships developing more with outdoor teams and leagues to turn this into a year-round operation?

Grimaldi:  Yes.  As a matter of fact, marrying up the outdoor potential of the USL with the indoor has always been something that we've always discussed.  There is a lot of synergy there and you can keep the same players in the same market.  We transfer players back and forth between the USL and our league and we did it in the MISL as well.  We had a heavy load of players going back and forth and that was good because that means the players were making money year-round and they were making a good, decent, livable salary on that.  It was quite good.  But under ideal circumstances, to have a player that plays indoor and outdoor in the same market and owned by the same organization certainly has an appeal that some of our teams are considering.

JK:  And then going forward this season, there is obviously still a lot to work out, but can folks expect a similar schedule to last year as far as timing and number of games?

Grimaldi:  Yes.  At this point we are projecting a baseline of ten games for all teams so it is just a slight increase by one home game.  But we are looking at a staggered start in mid-November, giving some teams, based on availability, the possibility of starting the end of November or start of December and then hopefully ending by the middle of March and hopefully wrap things up by the end of March or first weekend of April.  That's our hope. 

And that copes also with the USL issue because a lot of our players are from the USL so they can make that transfer that much sooner.  That is something that Francisco Marcos and Tim Holt and I have been talking for years, even at the MISL.  We are trying to end our season earlier so we can accommodate those loans.  And then the playoffs will be the same also.  We are looking at two teams qualifying with a one weekend home-and-home with a mini game and whoever the regular season champion would be would get the final and also the benefit of pre-selling that well in advance if it were determined well in advance, that is.

JK:  Is there anything that you think we missed as far as what is going on right now?

Grimaldi:  No, you know for the most part, I think for the record, the split of the league was a very unfortunate event and mind you, that was never the plan.  The plan was to dissolve the MISL as a single-entity and to go forward - all of the teams plus the new teams that were interested in coming on board - and move forward as a new MISL.  But, unfortunately, the group of XSL teams had a different idea, and mind you, New Jersey wasn't part of that, because originally, the ownership in Milwaukee, Chicago and Detroit wanted to have a bus league - a Great Lakes bus league and certainly New Jersey didn't fit that profile.  And again it was unfortunate because all of that was being done in a very clandestine manner.    None of the other owners knew that and then low and behold all of a sudden there is an announcement that the XSL is formed and the rest of the owners are sitting there in the NISL. 

So, that was never really the plan and it's just unfortunate that we had to go through a year like that where we have had two competing leagues and now you've got the PASL Pro, but Kevin Milliken, the commissioner there, and I are good friends and we could really make a good strategic relationship there and that is what we've been talking about. 

But with that said, I think in hindsight, we've just wasted an entire year trying to reorganize and it is a shame because we could have been operating last year as one united new MISL and today here we sit with, thankfully, an NISL that has survived and done well and is now moving forward.  And we're going to continue to move forward, but we're going to take it modestly and practically and we're going to do that in a way that we think that can be successful.

And mind you that Canada is definitely on the future horizon, because they've got the Canadian MISL, the CMISL, and they've got a couple of teams that used to play in the old, original MISL, so hopefully what we can end up doing is uniting all of these under one umbrella and we can have a true North American indoor soccer league, and that's what my hopes are.