The day has come. We in the atheist and scientific communities have been waiting for it with mild amusement or annoyance. And to our surprise it came a day early. We almost missed it as a result. But I didn't.
For those of you who were not aware, Ray Comfort, from Living Waters and Way of the Master has recently been talking about passing out free copies of Charles Darwin's The Origin of Species. This pivotal book has been all the rage since it was first published in 1859, and it's impact on science, religion, and culture cannot be denied. This is a book that must be read by a person if they are to consider themselves a well-rounded, educated, and informed person in today's culture. One should at very least be familiar with what Darwin's essential argument is, what evidence exists to back it up, and what science says about evolution today.
For that, here's a few good places to start and to keep an eye on:
But Ray Comfort is not a fan of evolution. He rejects it and supports intelligent design, so why is Ray Comfort giving away this special 150th Anniversary Edition, precisely?
Well, first a bit about Ray Comfort. He and his former Growing Pains star Kirk Cameron have been doing ministry about Jesus for some time now. You may remember the debate that Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron had with my friend Brian Sapient and the Rational Response Squad. If you have not seen this debate, I'll supply a link here.
It was this debate where the infamous crocoduck came from. This has supplied many chuckles and full belly-laughs from sciency people ever since. (I want a shirt with the crocoduck on it, btw, so I'll accept gifts of this sort).
This is an image created by Ray Comfort to try and make the point that transitional fossils do not exist, and that if they did this is the type of thing one would expect to find. The ignorance contained here is astounding. I don't even feel compelled to respond, because it has been done elsewhere with many more lulz attached.
But this is not the full act that these clowns have. If you have not heard their routine, it is amusing. Here's an example that includes some rebuttal:
Now, the banana aside (which Ray Comfort admitted was a bad argument), this is utter tripe. It is clear that Comfort, Cameron, and the others that are on board with this nonsense do not accept the overwhelming evidence for evolution, so why are they giving away copies of The Origin of Species? Well, it has a lot to do with the 50 page introduction that Ray Comfort includes in this 'special' edition.
Well, putting aside some obvious problems with the introduction, this is obviously an attempt to appear as if the creationist loons, like Comfort, have actually considered the evidence and are just coming up with another interpretation. They simply see the evidence lacking, having studied the subject, and are confident to actually give people copies of this book.
But the fact is that evolution is not derived from the Origin like gospel. It is derived from Darwin's arguments, evidence, and observations and then is confirmed by all of the work in biology since. That is, a hundred and fifty years of research, testing, DNA evidence, fossils, and other information supports what Darwin wrote and expands on it in ways Darwin could not have predicted because he did not know about DNA or genetics, let alone the thousands of fossils we have uncovered that speak unequivocally for evolution by natural selection.
So, the deal was Comfort and his cronies were to hand out copies of the book all over the country, on college campuses, on November 19th, 2009. The atheist and science blogosphere was all a-twitter about it and has been anticipating this. Various responses, reactions, and condemnations have surfaced in various places with varying degrees of tone. And so what happened when I got to my daily business today, one day before the planned give-away? That's right folks, Comfort has tried to minimize the planned reactions by science enthusiasts and atheists by jumping the gun and doing it early.
But I managed to get out of the house and find a couple of friendly gentlemen who were passing out the books today anyway. They were having some conversations with students, proselytizing the Christian message similar to Ray Comfort's, and I took a copy and talked with them about my concerns for a little while. And what did I find? Ignorance.
In my conversation with these two gentlemen, I found that not only were these two men ignorant of science, it's methods, and the evidence for evolution, they displayed no interest in learning about science. One of them actually said that he was not interested in science. But he did say that he was interested in the truth. And while he didn't understand the basics of rational thinking, epistemology, or even what natural selection was, he maintained that he was interested in the truth.
And what is the truth? Jesus is the truth. This was not merely claimed as a belief, but as knowledge, knowledge that was not doubted even a little.
...
Frustrating. How can a person claim to be interested in the truth and not have any interest in the scientific method--the best method for determining how the world works--and have not even surface understanding of epistemology? his is an indefensible position. It is irrational, illogical, and not worthy of the respect that some faitheists and moderate religionists say that these beliefs deserve. Their certainty in their beliefs is staggering considering they are not interested in evidence. What's worse is that they accused me of being absolutely certain that god does not exist and that evolution is true. When I told them that neither was true and that I accept evolution only because of the overwhelming evidence for it.
I am a skeptic. These people, Comfort included, are so removed from skepticism that they will not admit that they might be wrong. They cannot even see that they don't actually have evidence, only personal interpretations of experiences which people of other religions claim with equal authority. I cannot respect Ray Comfort's beliefs, his certainty, or the certainty of those who believe such absurd things. And for them to try and pull a stunt like this,by trying to look like they are educated in the science behind evolution when they are not, is dishonest at very least.
"All you need is eyes that can see and a brain that works" is what Ray Comfort says quite often. But it is clear, from all I have seen of his work, that he might have poor vision and a brain that works only just enough to sound like he's saying something sensible to people who don't see through his idiocy.
I'm glad I have a copy of this fine book to put on my shelf, but from what I have already seen, there is nothing in the introduction that is worth keeping.
Comments
That's the best you have, your arugument is tiersome and boring.
I am a Christian currently studying human evolution and I cannot see any reason why Christians cannot agree that evolution theories have merit. The Bible itself lists no specific age of the Earth and does not detail how God "made" life. I know the story of seven days but the Bible also says "a thousand years is but a day to God". It's arrogant of us to think that God fits into our own ideas of time that we created. The overwhelming evidence is that evolution is true but that does not prevent me from following the wise teachings of Christ. To be a "Christian" simply means "Christ-like". Why would how I got here threaten my ability to be a kind, loving, and forgiving person? I just don't understand this religious idea that the two ways of thinking cannot be one in the same. If we believe in a God that would make us late for an appointment to save us from an accident why is it impossible to believe in a God that orchestrated millions of years of evolution just to be with me?
I too was surprised with a free copy of Comfort's book today. My first thought at seeing people handing out books on the street corner was "They're handing out bibles..." I was completely shocked when it turned out they were handing out "The Origin of Species." I didn't stop to chat, other than to tell the guy this was a fantastic idea-- I had no idea who Ray Comfort was or why I would care that he wrote a special introduction for the book, I even thought that it must have been a school-sponsored thing... until I started reading the introduction over lunch and realized my initial reaction had been pretty accurate. It was a very sneaky move, but I really don't think Comfort will really convert anyone with his fire and brimstone ending-- and now, at least I have a free copy of a good book! (minus pages 38 through 49)
to Amanda: evolution is incompatible with Genesis. If the English version does not make it clear enough that "the evening and the morning" constitute a day, the Hebrew leaves no doubt that each day was meant to be exactly that: a day. God created the animals. Not something that evolved over time to become all of the animals.
to Shaun: well-written article, even though I believe God is the creator, not random chance which defies all probability
Well said, dear sir... Well Said!
Excellent, but I am afraid you are preaching to the choir...I have given up on creotards a while ago.
Shaun,
You believe if someone doubts evolution, then they can't understand what Darwin's essential argument is, what evidence exists to back it up, and what science says about evolution today. That's the obvious conclusion, right?
There are over 700 scientists with at least a Ph.D in their field of science that reject Darwinian evolution, and believe it is so flawed it cannot be repaired. Over 50 of them are biologists. The list is growing by 3 to 4 per week according to an atheist website.
You probably believe complete nothingness exploded and created the whole universe. Ray Comfort believes in a God Who can speak things into existence from nothing, but he just doesn't believe nothing can do it by itself without help. Any honest person should admit that an explosion from nothing is scientifically impossible.
As a Russian cosmonaut said: Either there is a God or there isn't one. Whether being accountable,or traveling 67,000 mph with nobody in charge, either is frightening.
OMFG! The big bang is COSMOLOGY not BIOLOGY (evolution).
Are you mad at what those crazy creationists did on your campus? Give them a piece of your mind! http ://is.gd/4YsRX
Arv, you are lying when you say "There are over 700 scientists with at least a Ph.D in their field of science that reject Darwinian evolution, ***and believe it is so flawed it cannot be repaired***."
You, of course, are referring to the Dissent from Darwinism petition (as you mentioned on another Examiner's comments sections).
Here's what it says: "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."
Can you, in your own words, explain what this means? Can you then contrast it with your own words "...beyond repair?"
Second, the truth of a statement is not determined by the number of it's adherents. But if that were the case, last time I checked there are over 46,000 biologists in the United States alone (not including those attached to Universities, etc).
It's a #'s game, your done for. But it's their arguments that
Doh! I meant to say "If it's a #'s game..."
And it took me 30 seconds to realize that it wasn't 46,000 Biologists, but 87,000.
Arv, you should Google "Project Steve".
Christians need not fear evolution. I'm living proof that Christianity and evolution can be integrated successfully, without compromising the scientific method or one's faith. I don't intend to promote myself here, but my blog is designed to assist Christians in making the transition. Feel free to Google "The Creation of an Evolutionist."
Nice to see you again here, Arv. Just so you know, that list you mentioned of 700 PhDs who think evolution is a sham ... well, if it's the same list I'm thinking of, the list itself is a total sham: Type "List of Scientists Rejecting Evolution - Do they really?" in the YouTube search engine and enjoy.
Science shows intelligent design and that would require an intelligent designer. While there is a natural degree of evolution, it does not mean we evolved from lower life forms. The complex make up of life from the simplistic to the most advanced have a beautiful DNA that is loaded with the designer's signature as are the heavens. I respect your views and enjoyed your article, but to me there is much more evidence of a creator than not. I bid you well.
I am getting truly tired of the Naturalists claiming that anyone who is not a Naturalist is ignorant.
This position is untenable, and even patently false upon examination. The greatest scientists the world has ever known are Creationists, not Naturalists. I have scientific training, worked my entire career within science, and have many friends in various scientific fields. All are Creationists, not Naturalists.
For a RATIONAL and CIVIL discussion of origins issues, come to Talk About Origins:
www.tao.invisionzone.com
You said:
"This is a book that must be read by a person if they are to consider themselves a well-rounded, educated, and informed person in today's culture."
Really? I wonder whether you think you should read the Bible to be a "well-rounded, educated, and informed person in today's culture." I happen to be a lawyer by profession and I can tell you that I am a member of those "well-rounded, educated, and informed" people. The people I know in that group would disagree with you, as I'm fairly certain NONE of them have ever read Darwin's book cover to cover.
Give me a break.
Arv:
The 700 list you mention is a lie - that's not what it says, and many of the "signers" reject the list.
The implication that evolution explains the origin of the universe is a lie - evolution deals with the formation of species and the variety of life, not the birth of the universe.
That cosmology says the universe burst into being from "complete nothingness" is a lie - read some actual theories.
Terry - even Newton wrote a disclaimer eliminating God from his equations. While most scientists are religious, precious few propose God as a causal agent in their particular field of study. Tell me, Terry - at what point should a scientist stop doing his/her research, shrug, and say "oh well, I guess God did it."
Barry - the same DNA that proves you are related to your cousin proves you are related to chimpanzees. Either accept the fact that chimps are your cousins, or stop using DNA evidence in court.
How do people live with a world view that requires them to lie?
While we're talking lists, here is a statement signed by 12,000 Christian CLERGY - wise people who don't need to lie:
"We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as "one theory among others" is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children."
For the names and affiliations of all 12,000 signers, and for the complete statement, google "Butler College Clergy Letter".
I have written a page-by-page counter essay to Comfort’s introduction. It is guaranteed to be both funnier and more factual. If you got a copy of his book, please check out my essay.
It's posted on the scribd site. Search for "Darwigin of Species"
Hi Shaun. Good article. I read it all the way through. And it reminds me of an anecdote. Years ago at Thanksgiving, I was chatting with my brother-in-law (he's an atheist, I'm a Methodist). At one point, I told him, it's interesting that we can look at the same evidence and come to the opposite conclusion. I think that because our vast, complicated universe works so well ... it must have a creator. You think that because our vast, complicated universe works so well … it doesn’t need one. I wonder which one of us is right? We laughed a bit, then shrugged. Too bad all discussions of The Big Questions can’t be like that one.
I'm currently working my way through "Origin of Species" - it was never required in my college biology classes - and I doubt many adherants OR critics have ever actually read it -- it's mid-19th Century style does not flow easily to modern ears.
That said, it lays out his case in a logical and rational manner that is hard to find flaws with - especially considering all that has been discovered since.
Only biblical literalists have trouble accepting evolution - and from what I've seen, significantly less than 0.1 percent of them have ever read the earliest versions of the Bible in its original languages - they're swallowing centuries of translation and interpretation.
FYI, Shaun, there may not be a 'crocoduck' - but Paul Serano has dubbed one of the Cretaceous crocodilians they discovered in Sahara as the 'DuckCroc'!
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/11/091119-dinosaurs-crocodiles-missions.html
Amanda, Please re read Genesis to see that there are many unmistakable details about "how God made life", details that provide NO room evolution.
If we are going to claim "Christianity" as our faith we must study to show ourselves approved. Please re read the account of Genesis very closely and ask the Lord to help you see the important details. Evolution is not possible if you believe Jesus. Adaptation is another story.
Sometime also visit www.answersingenesis.org
Denial of evolution is like claiming the earth is flat, or that the sun goes around the earth.
Bible thumpers are silly.
Well, I guess that's it. Rhonda's interpretation of Genesis must be the only one, therefore Creationism is the Truth©.
Even if Comfort and Cameron could prove without a shadow of a doubt that evolution is absolutely postitively wrong, there would still not be a shred of evidence in favor of some sort of creator(s). So why do they waste there time?
Rhonda, why don't YOU read genesis: biblegod.org
Religion and evolution are not in conflict. Ray and Kirk are frauds stealing your money; whether you believe or not, dismiss them as such.
I prefer the truth that I was made in God's image. Now if any one chooses to believe they came from mucus floating in a cesspool that got struck by lightning (fried booger)and presto! they turned into a monkey. That is there absolute prerogitive.
We do know for certain that science books have been mistaken & rewritten, We do know that science can change w/ new improved information and I do understand all men can lie and have lied. Science is great and vital for our future however, history has shown science to have been wrong and unstable in the past. If science is right and God does not exist, then I have nothing to lose but time wasted in fantasy.If God is real, Then I have everthying to lose including my soul. In light of this observation, I choose not to trust in darwin's theory. It is therefore more reasonable (4me) to believe I was made in God's image and God does exist, rather than believe God does not exist and we originated from a monkey. Darwin's theory is not worth it. Sorry. (to me) that is.
Rey says: "...and I do understand all men can lie and have lied."
But not priests, right? Not the authors of the bible, right? Certainly not Ray Comfort, who makes millions off the donations his little LLC recieves, right?
Please look up the term "peer-reviewed" and then ask yourself if the bible can stand up to the kind of scientific scrutiny that the mountains of evidence in favor of evolution has faced. Then we can talk.
Religion and science are not in conflict. That should be your new mantra.
When I said all men lie, all men are liars, In essence, there are Liars who believe the educated lies of liars. yes I also included priests, pastors and Popes! All men lie. everyone. I have lied and so have you.Like I said b/4, If science is right and God does not exist, then I have nothing to lose but time wasted in fantasy.If God is real, Then I have everthying to lose including my soul. In light of this observation, I choose not to trust in darwin's theory. I much prefer to trust in the Holy spirit inspired scriptures of God than believe man because God does not lie, God is not like you or me. I am convinced The apostles made themselves available to be the instruments of God to write the bible. God the King, Apostles the servant scribes of God's inspiration. Just read about a gifted scientist and researcher who became Christian, Lee Stobel. Like I said, Science is great and vital for our future growth but, history has shown science to have been wrong and unstable in the past.
I did researched what Ray Comfort makes as well as Pat Robertson and they do not make millions as you claim, They are on a modest parsonage that looks nothing like AIG or Chrysler and they give millions away to worthy charitable and needed causes $$$ yes ..indeed! I was wondering if you had researched that part and seen how much they contribute? How much did Ray comfort contribute to The food crisis in the Sudan>>? Rescue missions of America>?? and how much has his organization has given to orphanges in China?? not to mention St. Jude?? Did you research how much an Evangelical Like Pat Robertson donates to Haiti? and other 3rd world countries?? I found that most people are quick to attempt to destroy ones reputation but slow to edify the love exemplified for other strangers. How much have you loved?
@Rey Rios
The problem is that you have not established how your Pascal's Wager has chosen the Christian god. You say it is better to believe because you have nothing to lose (which is not true, but that's another matter), but what if Islam is the right religion? Allah will be annoyed when he sees you chose the false god YHWH. Pascal's Wager always fails, Rey.
I agree Pascal Wager always fails. He was human. Who hasn't failed?!? All men fail bcuz we all lie.I do consider his theory bcuz, I am inlove w/ God, I am inlove w/Christ. However, there is no failure in God. Moreover, all religions R false including Alah. Alah has no son. Aprox.33,600 religions worldwide say the same thing, 'your wrong and I'm right.'Most claim 2 have seen a euphoric vision from God, the gods &/or the angels, PRESTO! founders of a new religion. Infact 80% of world conflict is bcuz of land & religions. Jesus never preached on a religion. Jesus was not a religious man & niether am I. Jesus preached about a Kingdom. A Careful and honest look at the bible Script will reveal,the fundamental message of this greatly misunderstood Book is about a King and a Kingdom. The bible is not primarily about a religion or rituals, but the establishment of a kingdom rulership on this planet from heaven thru mankind,The Bible is about a royal family mandated 2 colonize earth from Heaven.
I consider all theories that of science and spirituality both flustered w/ singularities bcuz there are all secondary issues, But I would rather die for, I would rather give my life, lay down my life for Christ, The absolute truth of the God created Universe YAHWEH!
And yes I am a Jesus freak, Christ radical! I carry this banner until death and beyond, (life after death)
@Rey Rios
Your ignorance is showing. Pascal was the person. His famous wager, called Pascal's Wager in common discussions of these sorts, is the argument that you hedge your bets because you don't have anything to lose by believing, but everything to lose in not. It fails because it it is an absurd argument. It is not a reason to believe but a reason to pretend to.
And isn't it interesting that all these religions have the same type of experiences but have different conclusions? The Moslem believes just as firmly what you do, although his beliefs are different. The fact that all those people experience a god is not evidence of your god any more than it is for theirs. It is evidence that we have similar brain structures and are subject to the same types of delusions.
If in your perspective, I display ignorance.I surely would never like to be in your perspective, wise and enlightened. Many of us like myself, have more confidence in the spiritual DNA part of our lives than the physical; Therefore I rather pretend I came from God than pretend I came from a monkey. I still enjoy pascal's wager & philosophy. However, I never pretended to prove the existance of God with a mere finite mind. How can our current use of less than 10% our brain prove the existance of an infinite God? I couldn't prove to you that God does exist anymore than I can prove to you that you can finish college & obtain a degree. That is a journey of higher learning one must take. In other words, No one can prove you are worthy of a degree except you. In a similar way, My journey in seeking, hunting for God has taken me to a place (spiritually) where I am fully aware of God's existance and more real to me that it cancels out the physical existance of anyone person standing next to me.
Let my arguments be absurd. If they are so absurd, why do take the extra time to place commentaries from what I respond?! ..lol..or is it that you too feel the need to proselytize me into your religion (The Evolutionites) Well I already have a belief system and I will continue to be a Jesus freak,Christ radical! I carry this banner until death and beyond, (life after death)
May God richly bless you.
The simple fact of the matter is that you (Shaun) believe unequivocally what you believe and I believe unequivocally what I believe. You believe in macro evolution, I believe in creation by God. I cannot change your mind and you cannot change mine.
The reality is that a belief in evolution does not conflict with the beliefs of a Christian faith. Yet I still cannot fathom a belief in macro evolution. It seems proposterous to me (and I have done a lot of reading on the subject).
I guess what I'm saying is that robust debate is healthy but the reality is that we are poles apart and meeting in the middle is such an impossibility that, outside of God's influence, our iscussing this topic is a waste of time.
Amen! Matt. I second that.
I got this book on Half.com, not realizing who the intro is from. Ray is just a silly man in the scientific community, if you can even say he's worthy enough to even look though a window into the scientific community, but he's not. I intend on reading his Intro for pure amusement, cutting it out when I'm done (as he pleads not to do) and when I'm finished I'll have a nice scientific work by a genius leftover to put with my other books. Like Richard Dawkin's Greatest Show on Earth :)
No such thing as an Atheist ,cause if they don't believe in GOD Than why are they trying so heard to disprove in something they don't believe in.makes no sense at all.If they don't believe just remain quiet and say nothing.and LET The Christians do what is commanded BY OUR CREATOR AND TELL THE Lost and Dying and Going to HELL WORD About JESUS,One day you'll be SORRY.besides if your wrong I just end up dead and return to dust but if IF GOD'S WORD IS RIGHT,WHICH IT IS.THAN YOU HAVE MORE TO LOSE SUCH AS YOUR SOUL FOR ALL ETERNITY IN A LAKE OF FIRE AND NO ESCAPE EVER.
And if you are wrong, and Allah is the true God, the you can roast with me.
That's the thing about Pascal's wager; it doesn't tell you which myth to believe. Why believe Christianity over Islam?
Of course there are atheists, you Cretin. I could say of course there are no Christians. Why would they keep trying to prove their God to us atheists? Why can't they just be quiet and say nothing, then let us atheists do what we do?
Shaun
@ anonymous ,
You cant disprove something that hasn't been proven. Also , if you can stop your peanut sized brain from rattling around inside your thick skull for just a moment or two, then this may be beneficial for you when trying to form some rational thoughts , and in turn decrease the probability of you doing further damage to your one remaining brain cell.
If I had read this website before going to get a "second-handed" book from Half-Price bookstore, I would have shoved it back to the shelve hard and let it collect dust. This book (and shame on the publisher) conned me into believing that it's scientifically written. Well, no thanks to the introduction by Ray Discomfort in plummet the rating for the book from a 10,000 feet to ground zero. This book sucks big time and I will boycott Bridge-Logos publishing now onward.
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