COLUMBUS, Ohio (CGE) - "I'd call a fireman, but they're all here," said the Serjeant-at-Arms in the Ohio Senate Finance hearing room, when asked by CGE whether the crowd that showed up to hear Republican Sen. Shannon Jones deliver her sponsor testimony on her collective bargaining bill [SB5] had exceeded the state fire marshal's room capacity.
Sen. Jones (R-Clearcreek Twp.) provided sponsor testimony on her 500-page bill, which would eliminate collective bargaining for state employees, end binding arbitration for police and firefighters and make major changes in bargaining for teachers and local government employees, among other changes. The Insurance, Commerce and Labor Committee, chaired by Kevin Bacon (R-Minerva Park), started about one-half hour late, due to the length of the committee before it, which entertained a long list of testimony for SB 1, Gov. Kasich's pet project, JobsOhio, the privatization of the Ohio Dept. of Development.
"Kill the bill"
With the hearing room and the Mezzaine area above it filled, cheek by jowl, with opponents of the bill, one woman was escorted from her spot after disrupting the proceedings by shouting out "Kill this bill," which elicited applause from many in the hearing room.
Jones' bill would take a butcher knife to Ohio's collective bargaining bill, created in 1983, that Democratic Sen. Tom Sawyer said had worked very well over the years.
Gov. Kasich makes cameo appearance
About half way through Jones' time before the panel, Ohio's new Republican Gov. John Kasich emerged from a side office door and strode into the hearing room. Kasich, in his idiosyncratic peripatetic manner, walked behind committee members and whispered in Chairman Bacon's ear; then stood for a few minutes more, with a poker face, by the side of the panel dais. As mysteriously as he entered, he left, telling reporters as he disappeared how important the subject of the bill would be in state budgeting.
Jones, a member of the Ohio Budget and Management Commission last year, said the purpose of the bill was to provide transparency in state and local workforce decisions, so taxpayers would no longer be confused about the factors used to decide what to pay public sector workers. Jones, arguing the bill would provide tools to help "manage towards mission," said the "trajectory" of workers being paid more when state resources were in jeopardy needed to be changed. She said the bill, which at first was only one-page, called a placeholder bill, but Wednesday turned into a 500-page monster, was nothing more than her "landing spot" for continued discussion.
When one senator on the panel referred to the fact that Gov. Kasich had been in the room, Jones, surprised, said, "The governor was here?"
So, what does SB 5 do:
- End all collective bargaining rights for state employees, including at universities and colleges;
- Local police and firefighters would have weakened rights to binding arbitration by instead required deadlocked parties to extend their contract for a year first;
- Local government could no longer include terms of health insurance coverage or costs in collective bargaining agreements. Management will pick insurance policies, and employees must cover at least 20 percent of the cost;
- Allow local governments to hire permanent replacement workers during a strike (i.e. “scabs.”)
- Prohibits public employers from picking up extra employee pension contributions;
- Eliminates from state law automatic pay increases for experience and education (no automatic raise when you get your Masters Degree, teachers!);
- Eliminates from state law leave policies and automatic 15 sick days for teachers;
- Prohibits school districts from bargaining away certain management powers, such as the ability to deploy teachers to certain buildings;
- No longer makes longevity a deciding factor when management is deciding to make layoffs;
- Requires a public employer to publish on its website any changes in the union contract that impacts compensation of workers, including wages, length of service payments, and insurance coverage.;
- Requires the employer and the State Employment Relations Board to publish the parties’ offers on their websites before and after fact-finding is complete; and
- Allows schools or local governments in fiscal emergency to terminate or modify a collective bargaining agreement.
Comments and concerns
A firefighter from the Lancaster area, K.J. Watts, said, "Lawmakers need to stop trying to blame workers for a budget crisis that politicians created, and they need to focus on rebuilding our economy instead of hurting the communities we serve," according to comments sent to reporters by Andy Richards of the Ohio AFL-CIO.
Mericle Long, a supply coordinator at Ohio State University who lives in Columbus, said, "“This bill puts at risk future generations of Ohioans, like the students I provide services for. At a time when workers and small businesses are struggling to make ends meet, we need leaders to work to create an economy that works for all and propose initiatives that allow workers to reinvest in their communities, not lower the bar for all workers.”
Bryan Statzer, president of FOP Lodge 104, representing members of the Montgomery County sheriff’s office, said the bill appeared to be motivated by “animosity toward public employees,” The Dayton Daily News reported.
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Comments
This does not eliminate collective bargaining rights. Go to section 4117 of SB 5. It does eliminate the office of collective brgaining and move the job of negotiating contracts to the dept of admin services as a whole. Pay raises will be base solely on Merit. Collective bargaining can be used for health care other than the state will pay no more than 80% of Health Care. Longevity pay is gone.
Read 4117.081 in the bill. Public schools are prevented from collectively bargaining health insurance, salary, and layoff provisions. This guts collective bargaining by leaving nothing to bargain for.
Define merit pay. It is not yet figured out or explained in this 500 page document. They want a teacher with a master's degree and 11 years experience to make $32,000 a year. Plus merit pay? What is it ? How will it be determined? How will art, music, and PE teachers be considered for merit pay? This all must be CLEARLY defined before this bill can be passed. Since it is not clearly defined it should not be passed!!!
Arguments for abolishing, or at least removing important aspects of Ohio's collective bargaining law are based on ill-informed sentiments virtually no supporting data.
Senator Jones, in the Q&A hearing on SB 5 could not provide a shred of evidence that gutting c.b. would save a dime for the taxpayers. Indeed, she and her fellow travelers are astonishingly ill-informed.
According to SERB's own numbers, a very small portion of contract disputes go to arbitration (only 20 instances in the last five years), As for the state budget deficit, it must be pointed out that right to work states have similar deficits to that of Ohio, accounting for factors like population size.
Research shows that public employees are not overpaid and that a higher percentage of have college degrees, for example).
Before ORC 4117, there were about 60 per year. During the last decade, there were only 4 per year. The facts tell us that collective bargaining works - nothing about ORC 4117 needs fixing because nothing is broken.
If Ohio legislators value the contributions of nurses, firefighters, police officers, teachers, and other public employees, they should get their facts straight before attacking workers who, in some cases, risk their lives for us. Fiddling with Ohio’s collective bargaining law will not fix the budget deficit.
Dave Witt
Akron, Ohio
I agree with Dave from Akron, I also think that it would be wise to look at other states facing budget problems to see what solutions they have come up with. For example Oklahoma is introducing legislation that would funnel Federal tax dollars through the state, by doing this they would be able to cover state short falls by making sure State budgets are met before paying the Fed.
Senator Jones provided no evidence that this bill would help ease the budget deficit. It will not, so she was silent on this, despite questions from colleagues. Most certainly it will not create jobs, which was the platform that many of these legislators ran on. Her only argument seemed to be that it will create “transparency” about salary and other decisions in negotiations with unions. Transparency? These are local and state public institutions. Contracts are subject to the sunshine law. There are usually newspaper stories written detailing all of the key parts of the agreement. You can access contracts at the State Employment Relations Board web site with a link that says “All Contracts.” What is not transparent there?
Her assumption that public employees are overpaid and are taking advantage is not supported by available evidence. One of her committee colleagues pointed out that public employees took 250 million dollars in wage concessions last year alone! This was because of the recession, a recession that they did not cause. Unionized state – not local - employees will have their right to bargain eliminated completely. Yet they chose collective bargaining in a state-supervised democratic election. Since Jones presented no compelling evidence about what is supposedly broken in the current law, one suspects that the real motivation for this bill is partisan political payback. She denies it, of course. But what else can we conclude?
The evidence is clear. Right to work laws do NOT contribute to increased economic growth. Rather, they drive down wages, wealth, and the tax base. That is a recipe for depressing, not rebuilding the state's economy. Attacking workers' rights will not balance the budget. Attacking public servants who nurse, educate, protect, and take care of us will not build prosperity. It will compromise the state's promise, and put at risk its citizens.
This has nothing to do with balancing the budget. It is an all out assault on working people. Perhaps our illustrious state reps should look at their own benefit packages before attempting to destroy the average Ohio citizens.
False. Right to work law have no effect on other wages, other than to raise the salaries of non-represented workers. This is just another right wing talking point.
Time and time again, legislators across the country think that public employee salary and benefit packages are too high and that cutting them will balance the budget. And as we have seen, it only reduces the amount of money that goes back into the economy, which reduces spending, and deepens the budget deficit for the next year. Senator Jones, will you and your colleagues be participating in this salary and benefit reduction plan?
this is outrageous once again the average working men and women employed with the state of ohio will pay. I've worked for the state for 9 1/2 yrs and 4 of those years on pay freezes. With this bill passing i could just image what they would try and take away.It's funny not once has management taken a freeze or lost anything plus postions have been made making management wages.What a disappointment my state reps have become.Their new motto should be i'm looking out for us not the people we represent.
Here we go sounding like a bunch of cry babies again! The people of this state, who pay these salaries, are struggling. Losing their jobs, and homes, yet we expect relative immunity!?! No one is trying to destroy the middle class, or put people in the poor-house. While things need to be done to fix the economy, they can't be done fast enough to save the state budget, and sucking 6bil in taxes out of the private sector is insane. Yes, it sucks, but its time to step-up.......or be lied to some more and kick the can down the road.
The proposal has first year teachers makintg 17,000 dollars a year! That is below the poverty line! These are professionals with degrees from universities and colleges! The proposal also has teachers with a masters making 36,000, how are we going to get the best minds in this profession. You won't! Crybabies are the people that are being reactive instead of being proactive! This is an attack on the people that drive the communities that you live in. On the people who protect and serve your children! Think about the consequences of this Bill!
Anonymous... Way to think that one out. Im also sure that if your car caught on fire and there was a bucket of gasoline next to you, you would throw the bucket on the burning car because you had to do something. Don't do something for the sake of doing something, do the right thing. If both Labor and Management would sit down at negotiations and both sides Honestly work at resolving the problem we would have a solution. But like a marriage it only takes one side to be dishonest and the whole process derails. In this situation you cant ask employees to give back while the politicals leaders give themselves raises and additional benefits. Common sense... if you don't see that , then spare us your toxic attitude.
NEWSFLASH: most public employees ARE in the poorhouse..... as a teacher with a masters degree and 30 years of service one qualifies for foodstamps.... please tell me how many more cuts we can take
Let's do this,,,Let Kasich take away our Collective Bargaining then all of us Police Officers can go on welfare and get free food,medical,housing,cell phones etc. then we can Strap this State even more!!! You dumbasses need us@@
Senator Jones must not understand that there is already a senate committee that was put in place under Gov. Taft to view and except or reject any contract that is negotiated with state employees. This is not transparancy when she doesn't already know this, or does she. State employees already make 2.2% less then the private sector. This is a study that was mentioned in the Dispatch when the Gov. said if they strike, they get fired. This is a plot to kill the wages of the middle class americans. We have been overseas fighting for those folks to have the same rights that they are trying to take from us. This is unamerican. Every State employee is an Ohio Citizen. State Employees already don't have the right to speak certain issues that run down the party line. They don't have the right to campaign for politicians like other Ohio Citizens do. Let's treat all citizens the same. Let's change the law that lets all citizens an equal vote and voice.
hey mr. anonymous why should i lose my rights to fight for me.It's funny like i said haven't had a raise in four years plus right now i am giving 3 hrs of free labor to the state. Yet the director of nursing where i work has had a pay increase of 20,000 dollars. This is public knowlegde management has not once froze their wages and they do shit. I'm no crying baby just a hard worker who wants his right to fight for what i desrve. I know many of my fellow ohioains are struggling thats why we needs to fix the trends the higher ups get rasies and good beneifits while the middle and lower class people suffer. enough is enough
you can fight for your rights. but you shouldn't be able to hold tax payers hostage via unions and collective bargaining. stand on your in two feet! if you are not happy at your job, move on. quit playing the victim. collective bargaining and unions have made for collective whining. join the real world with the rest of us who pay your salary
I, also a state employee must add my thought. Have we learned nothing from the past people? Government does what government wants. We can vote and bitch and protest all we want, but bottom line is, every time contract negotiations come around, who gets screwed? There is no collective bargaining, its collective screwing. Yes we state employees who you all think have it so well, have been on pay freezes, hiring freezes, have had time taken from them or are made to pay back money to the state (work for free for 3.1 hours per pay period) work short, forced to work double shifts,increase in insurance cost and decrease in coverage. Please people, dont think that public employees have it made. If we didnt have a union and colloective bargaining, I would hate to see the insane treatment employees would have to go through, we would be put through hell and have no one to protect our rights.
Hey anoymous, why dont you put your name on here like the other courageous people who are fighting for their job. I would love to know what you do for a living.
I meant "Anonymous" above. Sorry
I did not go to college to make the same amount of money as everyone else. This will make college unimportant to youth. Our state will become a state full a criminals and welfare. I refuse to let this effect my pursuit of happiness. I have been in college for 4 years because I want enough money to feel safe and if this passes then every current college student will have to move away. Ohio will become a home for ignorant people. All Ohio colleges will shut down. Youth today is already lazy. This is not fair to the hardworking people. Do you think Police Officers will care if they are making minimum wages? I wouldn't put my life on the line for that. If this passes, Ohio will be destroyed. Replacing striking workers is only going to piss people off because we have the freedom of speech. We already have people committing suicide because they are worrying about money and if this passes the people well off will not even be able to keep their home so how can they afford to take care of their children.
What about cutting the budget by cutting the pay of all of the retired politicians down to them receiving an average pension along with Medicare like the rest of us. How many Trillions of dollars over this entire country would that save us. Trillions!
What about cutting at the top for a change instead of always at the bottom. Seems like from the very top Presidency on down to local government is working hard on making this a third world country.
I think you are right on. I am fearful of that day. I almost feel it will take something like what just happened in Egypt to get things right in our country. The people at the top are almost more corrupt than the guys that just got kicked out in Egypt.
you should join the tea party movement. anti- big govt. movement. interesting how union folks are on the side of big government when bigger govt is our problem.
Interestingly, PERS, which is the retirement fund for politicians, is going almost completely unscathed, while STRS is being dismantled. What a bunch of effing hypocrites. I've been teaching for over a decade now and I am sickened by what the passing of this bill will mean not only for my profession, but for the future of America. Public employees are the heart and soul of the community. None of us do it for glory, but taking away our rights the state legislature is telling us what we do is of no real value. It's maddening.
My husband and I are both public employees currently and we aren't living well off. We struggle week to week, pay to pay and certainly don't have an extravegant life style. Public employees serve an important function. We protect the public, help the sick, and educate your children just to name a few things. Like an occupation there are always problems and changes that could be made but driving good people out of their jobs and attacking public employees as a whole isn't helping. It is frustrating that so many people think we are living the high life when really most of us are getting by like everyone else.
whatever, you public employees make a hell of alot more than those in the private sector. and u want more?? hysterical, we all have to tighten our purse strings but not the public sector worker. what make you better than any politician?? you're doing the same thing
I have worked for the drc for over a year and work with rapist, murders and child molesters. This is the lowest paying job I have had in 20 years. The private sector has no clue. You mr anonymous lock yourself up in a room with everything you don't want on the street for $16 hr. The state workers are not the problem the people who are in office got us in the state of economic destress we are in. I hope all voters remember this when election time comes around agian. Did you vote?
Actually, most (if not all) of the State Reps. only do that job part-time. I spoke to one rep and she was in Columbus only on days votes are held. Otherwise, she was working her full-time job in Cincinnati. I don't agree with this legislation, but by the same token I do not believe that state/public employees should be immune to the issues faced by those in the private sector. If I suck at my job, I'm out of it in a second. I know horrible teachers who are protected by the union and they know it so they continue to be horrible. In our town (Piqua), we had a cop who had 3 car accidents IN HIS CRUISER because he was playing with the laptop while driving. The union saved his job. Am I safer with him on the force? These are the issues that need to be resolved, and my feeling is there is a middle ground. I am anti-union personally, but I respect the rights of unions to exist and people's rights to join them. I think it's asinine that union membership is often a condition of employment, though. If someone doesn't want to join then they shouldn't have to.
If you had half a brain, there would be a simple solution. Better organize the private sector. Your solution seems to be to destroy the middle class completely so that all is fair.
HONESTLY. Have you never read a study in your life? PRIVATE sector employees earn more than their public sector counterparts. It may seem that public sector employees earn more, but if you take into account their educational attainment they earn LESS than those in the private sector with the same qualifications. Read something before your open your mouth.
you need to get educated! Public Employees vs Politicians no comparison--I don't see Public Employees living in masions and driving big fancy cars. etc etc etc
as you see the corruption of Politicians.
Let me ask you a question.... do your children (if you have them.... if not think of wher eyou would be w/o) pork the budget by having desks in their classrooms? computers? up to date text books? food in their lunch room? art? music? gym? science? social studies? extracurriculars? less than 35 children in a classroom? special needs aides? interventionists? specialists? THIS IS ALL COLLECTIVE BARGAINING!!! We have to bargain for ALL of these things! Salary is one kernel of this arguement!!! As teachers we use collective bargaining to advocate for what students need...... without it we won't be able to do that!!!!! Don't even get me going on why a firefighter would rush into your burning home to save you knowing that it will cost him more than he makes in a year if he's burned..... are you kidding me with this purse strings crap? Get real!
I made a whopping $53,000 last year @sshole!!!and that's with 200 hours of overtime. My husband & I are both in Law Enforcement and live paycheck to paycheck. Do not sit there and tell me we have it made or we're not hurting for anything. We do not deserve to get our wages cut or our medical raised or being unable to bargain for anything. We protect rejects like you!!!
And the Government,,,you do away with Collective Bargaining you're going to have Barney Fife on call as needed to solve problems and uneducated teachers teaching your children, and volunteer fireman whom may or may not decide to come out to work when someone's house is burning. Look at the BIG picture here folks, without Public Employees the United States is NOTHING!!!! And "anonymous from above, call a Politician the next time someone you need a Police Officer, I'm sure he will help you with the drug dealers and shootings and rapes in your area!
I differ with you! We aren't making a hell of a lot more. You are hysterical you need to get your facts together. I have had to tighten my strings and no I don't live in a 150+ thousand dollar home and drive a lexus or lincoln. Get educated!
Just look at our own Men & Women who fight for our country -- considered government--They are paid and treated as dirt. Once again stop paying these politicians when they retire even with one year service--let them build up a retirement plan like the rest of us at a reasonable - voted by the people - what income they should receive. Not punish us union or NON Union and than give raises to themselves or are exempt from the healthcare they are trying to push on us. Get Educated!!! Wake up America--We fight against each other instead of fighting against the real problem. We vote from our buckets instead of our heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look people, this is not about the variances between public and private sector pay scales. You're welcome to argue the finer points of salary vs. total compensation but this is about sustainability plain and simple. Pro-union or Anti-union...I don't care! I'm sorry that the government promised something they mathmatically could not deliver but we must face the reality that it cannot continue as it has. Cuts do need to be made across the board and all the way to the top. No doubt, it will be painful to all but that is the price we pay for allowing government to grow out of control.
You are right. It needs to start at the top but, I don't see the gov. and the representives taking a paycut.
Quit complaining! Quit your job and go into the private sector if it is so bad. I am sure there are thousands of unemployed people who would love public jobs that they cant get now because nobody ever leaves those entitled positions. The public voted in these leaders just recently and we should let them do their jobs. It is the voice of the people who wanted less government spending. Just because it is affecting you, then you whine about it. What about other people whose problems are worse than yours? Selfish.
You know, if the state wasn't paying the freight for so many that contribute absolutely nothing, they wouldn't have to worry about taking from those of us that work 2 or 3 jobs, just to make ends meet.
good point sandi. the 'entitlements' give to the 'free loaders' are killing the country. i actually consider the govt employee free pensions and health insurance to be entitlements (compared to private sector where we pay a portion of health ins and most of our retirement).
Explain how music and art teachers would be elvated, or are we going to eliminate those courses to save money?
I am sorry, in my haste I spelled evaluate incorrectly.
They would be evaluated the same way that other employees are evaluated, by their boss. Why is this so difficult? If a teacher is showing up late, causing administrative problems, not teaching the children in the class (i.e. no progress is being made) then there will be complaints to the school's administrator. That makes the administrator's (i.e. the boss) job harder. Same as any other employee evaluation.
This bill goes too far. Merit based pay doesn't work in the teaching profession. Teachers will pass students along because their livelihood will be at risk if they don't. Not to say this doesn't already happen (teaching to the test), it just will be more prolific. Typically pushing kids along is not the teacher's fault - it's usually the football coach turned administrators who "force" teachers to change grades, or else... the school and administration looses the race to the top which hurts children more. What happens to all the special educators who teach the MR, ED, LD kids who statistically perform lower than general ed? Are they going to be held to the same standard as the rest? Is that football coach\history teacher now principal really qualified to evaluate the SPED teacher? Do you people really even know what reviews are actually like in education? It’s not like the private sector where at least there is a chance of 360 feedback. Do you want your children passed along or educated? If you are so outraged about your tax dollar's being wasted, why not throw that rage at the lazy a## parents who do nothing to help improve education? Why not hold them accountable - they are receiving taxpayer money to help their offspring have a better chance in life.
I agree that public employees are not the problem. I think you might be surprised that most of SB5's writers and sponsors also don't think you are the problem. It is an unsustainable mathmatical issue caused by government that was never held in fiscal-check.
I also agree that many of the particulars you mentioned probably are worth discussion and debate. I'm not the brightest bulb but I'm no fool either. Even sensible or well intended legislation can muddy waters sometimes.
While I do generally find myself opposed to most modern-day unions, I can clearly see that input from everybody would be beneficial but at the end of the day, financial cuts do need to be made and accountability given a stronger place.
employees are not the problem. unions are the problem.
sounds like education system has problems in evals that need to be looked at.
frankly, if a kid is not doing the work, fail him. when some kid is 18 and still in 5th grade maybe his parents will get involved. fail them! your job is to educate, not pass them on. pertty simple.
Hey Dah,
You are missing the point. Incompetent Administrators are the ones who make the teachers pass them along to pad their school numbers. This is typically done at the expense of the student and without considering the professional opinion of the teacher. This one area that tenure is supposed to protect the teacher. Which is one reason SB5 is ill advised. There is more to the story than what you think.
SB5 supporters, don't rush into something without truly understanding the problems at hand. Pass it and teachers will not want to teach here because what little incentive remains, is about to go out the window - SB5 will make it more attractive to join the private sector or leave to a more favorable State. Remember the brain drain? We're about to become brain dead in this state if this thing as written passes. Get back to the drawing board, quit playing politics, and focus on job growth.
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